Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

EkErilaz wrote:

All true, in this case I do not think it was a crewed missile, but a remote controlled one or it might even have been a off route AT mine. (a mine that fires into the side of a target) The firing point is so close it would be an obvious suicide to even an untrained ork.   We used to teach some really sneaky shit one could do with a disposable m136 where we set them up on a tree beside the road and rigged the firing mechanism with fishing line as an improvised off route mine.

I am thinking it was crewed, but who knows. First of all, the distance was stupid close, you can see multiple flashes from Ukrainian positions that indicate small arms fire too. 0:52 if you look closely at their positions, you can see RPG flash and hit on Russian tank that is absorbed with no problems. I understand they cut up the video so they wouldn't show their AT team wiped out, but there was no escape for them. Behind them, there was no cover just a field. These guys were not like chechens who had tunnels dug for ambushes.

Also, yes, I understand it's a propaganda video and take it with the grain of salt, they would have released unedited footage if it was "peremoha"

Things run good for Vlad...

8 generals fired.

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/as-putin-fires-8-generals-over-losses-in-war-with-ukraine-see-russia-s-military-structure-11647015377543.html

And the leader of FSB is under arrest

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10603045/Putin-places-head-FSBs-foreign-intelligence-branch-house-arrest.html

Aristide wrote:Things run good for Vlad...

8 generals fired.

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/as-putin-fires-8-generals-over-losses-in-war-with-ukraine-see-russia-s-military-structure-11647015377543.html

And the leader of FSB is under arrest

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10603045/Putin-places-head-FSBs-foreign-intelligence-branch-house-arrest.html

"According to Ukrainian sources" and published on tabloids. Do you understand that both sides are into infowar right now?

Regular wrote:

Aristide wrote:Things run good for Vlad...

8 generals fired.

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/as-putin-fires-8-generals-over-losses-in-war-with-ukraine-see-russia-s-military-structure-11647015377543.html

And the leader of FSB is under arrest

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10603045/Putin-places-head-FSBs-foreign-intelligence-branch-house-arrest.html

"According to Ukrainian sources" and published on tabloids. Do you understand that both sides are into infowar right now?

Sure, but i can count 1 and 1 together. Given the fact that 2 days after Putlers invasion, the kremlin propaganda published a victory article and withdraw it within minutes...we can guess it was planned that Ukraine gives up with little resistance in 2 or 3 days. Putin did not expect that the people of Ukraine fight so hard. The entire operation is badly prepared and done.

Aristide wrote:Things run good for Vlad...

8 generals fired.

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/as-putin-fires-8-generals-over-losses-in-war-with-ukraine-see-russia-s-military-structure-11647015377543.html

And the leader of FSB is under arrest

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10603045/Putin-places-head-FSBs-foreign-intelligence-branch-house-arrest.html

Haven't found any Russian sources about it, and we have a great variety of them

I guess we'll find out after the war

Aristide wrote:

Urluber wrote:

walle83 wrote:

Arrow wrote:Russia has a total of over 6,000 nuclear warhead tacctical and strategic.  France around 300. Such a potential difference.  In addition, Russia has a huge amount of cruise missiles and other systems.

Cruise missiles dont seem to be much help for the Russians.

And arguing about who has most nukes is just stupid. "My gun fires 6000 bullets, you can only fire 300!" Both are fucking dead, who cares how many bullets you fire in total.

How come?
IMO Russia has destroyed plenty of Kievan strategic targets by cruise missiles. They are hitting. And they are hitting hard. I would have liked to see the first day kind of hammering with cruise missiles for a week or two though. Then again, I'm in charge mainly of my armchair.

The nuke discussion is stupid indeed. Because everyone knows that only Russia and USA posses a real nuclear deterrence. With China catching up rapidly. Capabilities of for example France in this regard are somewhere around Pakistan maybe; sure, they can do plenty of damage nearby against unprotected targets but they are far from having true intercontinental, global strike capability.

You do realize that we have orbital rockets right?

As nuclear power France plain and simply is untouchable.

That said, we now plan to make entire EU nuclear to counter possible attacks from Russia. We are aware that Putin similar to Hitler dreams about conquering Europe. So far the french arsenal keeps us save but its better to stock it up. So far Poland and others support it and even Hippie Germany has woken up finally.

It's funny how the narrative in the EU could not be more wrong.
This is more like Putin liberating the Russian lands which again had temporarily fallen under the boots of western imperialists. Indeed, the situation in some sence is reminiscent of that of the 1940's but like last time, the "Hitler" sits in familiar place - in the western capitals. Russia and Putin are only acting on self defense - like always.

It must be weird for those who have already witnessed the previous battle only 80 years ago to see this same round going on again. Twice in their lifetime! On same lands, between same powers and pretty much for same reasons.

flamming_python wrote:Into the 3rd week now

Time to end this war. It shouldn't have been started

Not because of the sanctions or anything, but because of the huge humanitarian crisis. What the hell are millions of people going to live off.

It's insane.

Or else what, have the Ukraine turn into a new Syria?

End this war by winning you mean? Or retreat halfway?

Yes, the humanitarian crisis is insane, but rebuilding effort will be even more painful. At this point, Ukraine has no heavy industry, no aero industry, what meager things they had, they were used for war effort and thus lost. Not sure who will be willing to come up with Marshall's plan for them. Moldova will look like a paradise for Ukrainians soon.

Aristide wrote:

Sure, but i can count 1 and 1 together. Given the fact that 2 days after Putlers invasion, the kremlin propaganda published a victory article and withdraw it within minutes...we can guess it was planned that Ukraine gives up with little resistance in 2 or 3 days. Putin did not expect that the people of Ukraine fight so hard. The entire operation is badly prepared and done.

Things are not as simple as 1+1. That article could have been psy-ops as well. Russia brought plenty of troops in case the 3-day victory didn't pan out. Plenty of artillery that is still not used widely, not to mention strategic aviation. When you plan a war, you don't have just one plan. It's not a cartoon.

Aristide wrote:

Regular wrote:

Aristide wrote:Things run good for Vlad...

8 generals fired.

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/as-putin-fires-8-generals-over-losses-in-war-with-ukraine-see-russia-s-military-structure-11647015377543.html

And the leader of FSB is under arrest

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10603045/Putin-places-head-FSBs-foreign-intelligence-branch-house-arrest.html

"According to Ukrainian sources" and published on tabloids. Do you understand that both sides are into infowar right now?

Sure, but i can count 1 and 1 together. Given the fact that 2 days after Putlers invasion, the kremlin propaganda published a victory article and withdraw it within minutes...we can guess it was planned that Ukraine gives up with little resistance in 2 or 3 days. Putin did not expect that the people of Ukraine fight so hard. The entire operation is badly prepared and done.

I think there was certainly an expectation that Russian forces would be viewed neutrally by much of the population

But I doubt any such giving up of the Ukraine in 2 or 3 days was on the cards. There were likely a lot of different scenarios calculated.

Right now Russia has mostly achieved its strategic objectives of demilitarization of the Ukraine. It has destroyed most of the Ukrainian military's ammo and fuel stocks, and pushed it back hundreds of kilometres across the front. It controls the road networks and the Ukrainian army has no strategic initiative, it can just try to defend this or that point with some limited mobile reserves at most. Russia got control of the nuclear power plants and collected the evidence it wanted.

Nevertheless Russia isn't otherwise advancing and hasn't been over the past 4-5 dayts, even there where Ukrainian lines are thin.

Russia also did not manage to capture Mariupol or Kharkov early, it couldn't convince the fighters there to withdraw via the humanitarian corridors. The civilian population also weren't allowed out by the fighters and have to serve as human shields. There are some hardcore Nazis there. Right now Mariupol is being cleared, and Kharkov might be next but it's a much larger city.

There's a mix of diplomacy and warfare going on, with Russia creating facts on the ground and engaging in diplomacy

This is great and everything, but at this point the Ukraine has successfully delayed the Russian objectives to the point where there will be a mass humanitarian crisis. War is a factory of hatred, and the longer this goes on for the less Russia can hope to achieve in any case.
At this point I think negotiations are the only option.

Urluber wrote:

Aristide wrote:

Urluber wrote:

walle83 wrote:

Arrow wrote:Russia has a total of over 6,000 nuclear warhead tacctical and strategic.  France around 300. Such a potential difference.  In addition, Russia has a huge amount of cruise missiles and other systems.

Cruise missiles dont seem to be much help for the Russians.

And arguing about who has most nukes is just stupid. "My gun fires 6000 bullets, you can only fire 300!" Both are fucking dead, who cares how many bullets you fire in total.

How come?
IMO Russia has destroyed plenty of Kievan strategic targets by cruise missiles. They are hitting. And they are hitting hard. I would have liked to see the first day kind of hammering with cruise missiles for a week or two though. Then again, I'm in charge mainly of my armchair.

The nuke discussion is stupid indeed. Because everyone knows that only Russia and USA posses a real nuclear deterrence. With China catching up rapidly. Capabilities of for example France in this regard are somewhere around Pakistan maybe; sure, they can do plenty of damage nearby against unprotected targets but they are far from having true intercontinental, global strike capability.

You do realize that we have orbital rockets right?

As nuclear power France plain and simply is untouchable.

That said, we now plan to make entire EU nuclear to counter possible attacks from Russia. We are aware that Putin similar to Hitler dreams about conquering Europe. So far the french arsenal keeps us save but its better to stock it up. So far Poland and others support it and even Hippie Germany has woken up finally.

It's funny how the narrative in the EU could not be more wrong.
This is more like Putin liberating the Russian lands which again had temporarily fallen under the boots of western imperialists. Indeed, the situation in some sence is reminiscent of that of the 1940's but like last time, the "Hitler" sits in familiar place - in the western capitals. Russia and Putin are only acting on self defense - like always.

It must be weird for those who have already witnessed the previous battle only 80 years ago to see this same round going on again. Twice in their lifetime! On same lands, between same powers and pretty much for same reasons.

We see it different. Its like Hitler in 1938 with Sudentenland. Appeasment doesnt work with tyrants like Putin. His entire ideology is based on Dugins Eurasian empire. Putler wants to create an Eurasian Empire. If we allow Ukraine to fall, next would be baltics and poland. Then scandinavia. Germany is intended to operate as vasall hegemon of western europe under moscow leadership. But Germany has no interest and thanks god changed 180 degrees and is no putin apologist anymore.

Holding Ukraine is most important. I dont want wake up one day and live a miserable life in a russian dominated europe.

And so far it looks good for us.

Urluber wrote:

Aristide wrote:

Urluber wrote:

walle83 wrote:

Arrow wrote:Russia has a total of over 6,000 nuclear warhead tacctical and strategic.  France around 300. Such a potential difference.  In addition, Russia has a huge amount of cruise missiles and other systems.

Cruise missiles dont seem to be much help for the Russians.

And arguing about who has most nukes is just stupid. "My gun fires 6000 bullets, you can only fire 300!" Both are fucking dead, who cares how many bullets you fire in total.

How come?
IMO Russia has destroyed plenty of Kievan strategic targets by cruise missiles. They are hitting. And they are hitting hard. I would have liked to see the first day kind of hammering with cruise missiles for a week or two though. Then again, I'm in charge mainly of my armchair.

The nuke discussion is stupid indeed. Because everyone knows that only Russia and USA posses a real nuclear deterrence. With China catching up rapidly. Capabilities of for example France in this regard are somewhere around Pakistan maybe; sure, they can do plenty of damage nearby against unprotected targets but they are far from having true intercontinental, global strike capability.

You do realize that we have orbital rockets right?

As nuclear power France plain and simply is untouchable.

That said, we now plan to make entire EU nuclear to counter possible attacks from Russia. We are aware that Putin similar to Hitler dreams about conquering Europe. So far the french arsenal keeps us save but its better to stock it up. So far Poland and others support it and even Hippie Germany has woken up finally.

It's funny how the narrative in the EU could not be more wrong.
This is more like Putin liberating the Russian lands which again had temporarily fallen under the boots of western imperialists. Indeed, the situation in some sence is reminiscent of that of the 1940's but like last time, the "Hitler" sits in familiar place - in the western capitals. Russia and Putin are only acting on self defense - like always.

It must be weird for those who have already witnessed the previous battle only 80 years ago to see this same round going on again. Twice in their lifetime! On same lands, between same powers and pretty much for same reasons.

It's not either

It's Putin trying to correct a problem he allowed to occur in the first place in 2014 - with a massive invasion.

It was and is an crazy plan. I expected something smarter. Now he has bogged Russia down into some dump.

I'm sure there were things that provoked military action. Else Putin and Xi would have just bidden their time, which was very much on their side.
Like with the Taiwan issue as well, with America recently starting to support a separatist political party there.

The problem is that Putin and Lavrov with their absolutely uncompromising policy and ultimatums, and ever escalating demands - have put Russia into a position where there is no other option than victory. But the price this 'victory' may have on the Ukrainian population can be huge. Nobody deserves this, just because Putin miscalculated.

Cared to check where Baranovichi base is located? 

Close enough to be targeted by last variants of Toshka which has 185km range.

I think they learned by probably having ad systems

Not enough unfortunately. Russia can't afford to loose planes because of stupidity. Spacing them won't kill them. It will only serve as a protection.

Aristide wrote:
Sure, but i can count 1 and 1 together. Given the fact that 2 days after Putlers invasion, the kremlin propaganda published a victory article and withdraw it within minutes...we can guess it was planned that Ukraine gives up with little resistance in 2 or 3 days. Putin did not expect that the people of Ukraine fight so hard. The entire operation is badly prepared and done.

Clearly not what they planed.

They were very well aware they wouldn't take Ukraine in 2-3 days. They knew a full out war would be hard and would end up with ukrainians fighting in cities using civilians as shields, that's why they moved field hospitals.

The tactic was to blow up major bases with cruise missiles and send light troops quickly to attack. There they knew there were 2 options, either ukrainian surrendered or keep fighting.

Ukrainians choosed to fight so they knew after the first 3 days that's gonna be a long war.

Ukrainian military was destroyed the first week, no matter what you hear on pro west sources. Navy was destroyed, fuel storages as well as munition depot and big bases targeted, air force destroyed... what is left is a guerilla using man portable weapons only. That's why there isn't footages of ukrainian tanks destroyed... most are still in tveir home bases untouched by ukrainians soldiers.

Aristide wrote:

Urluber wrote:

Aristide wrote:

Urluber wrote:

walle83 wrote:

Arrow wrote:Russia has a total of over 6,000 nuclear warhead tacctical and strategic.  France around 300. Such a potential difference.  In addition, Russia has a huge amount of cruise missiles and other systems.

Cruise missiles dont seem to be much help for the Russians.

And arguing about who has most nukes is just stupid. "My gun fires 6000 bullets, you can only fire 300!" Both are fucking dead, who cares how many bullets you fire in total.

How come?
IMO Russia has destroyed plenty of Kievan strategic targets by cruise missiles. They are hitting. And they are hitting hard. I would have liked to see the first day kind of hammering with cruise missiles for a week or two though. Then again, I'm in charge mainly of my armchair.

The nuke discussion is stupid indeed. Because everyone knows that only Russia and USA posses a real nuclear deterrence. With China catching up rapidly. Capabilities of for example France in this regard are somewhere around Pakistan maybe; sure, they can do plenty of damage nearby against unprotected targets but they are far from having true intercontinental, global strike capability.

You do realize that we have orbital rockets right?

As nuclear power France plain and simply is untouchable.

That said, we now plan to make entire EU nuclear to counter possible attacks from Russia. We are aware that Putin similar to Hitler dreams about conquering Europe. So far the french arsenal keeps us save but its better to stock it up. So far Poland and others support it and even Hippie Germany has woken up finally.

It's funny how the narrative in the EU could not be more wrong.
This is more like Putin liberating the Russian lands which again had temporarily fallen under the boots of western imperialists. Indeed, the situation in some sence is reminiscent of that of the 1940's but like last time, the "Hitler" sits in familiar place - in the western capitals. Russia and Putin are only acting on self defense - like always.

It must be weird for those who have already witnessed the previous battle only 80 years ago to see this same round going on again. Twice in their lifetime! On same lands, between same powers and pretty much for same reasons.

We see it different. Its like Hitler in 1938 with Sudentenland. Appeasment doesnt work with tyrants like Putin. His entire ideology is based on Dugins Eurasian empire. Putler wants to create an Eurasian Empire. If we allow Ukraine to fall, next would be baltics and poland. Then scandinavia. Germany is intended to operate as vasall hegemon of western europe under moscow leadership. But Germany has no interest and thanks god changed 180 degrees and is no putin apologist anymore.

Holding Ukraine is most important. I dont want wake up one day and live a miserable life in a russian dominated europe.

And so far it looks good for us.

You're all part of the same empire, just playing Good Cop and Bad Cop

In fact turning the Ukraine into a Nazi state was the joint-initiative of both the EU and the US in 2014 and no-one ever said a word about it

Then Biden attempted to trade the Ukraine to Russia in exchange for Russia cutting links with China but Russia refused.

That the west has now 'consolidated' is a delusion - it always was consolidated. Against Syria, Iran, China, Russia, etc... what Uncle Sam says, is always what's done. And it's mass hysteria and sanctioning of Russia is only evidence of its own agony. It has now used and blown all of its cards and exposed itself for what it is in front of the rest of the world. Just one huge white nationalist empire.

So I'm wondering why Russia decided to invade the Ukraine, what provocation was in the making. NATOization I know about, the increasing of the forces in the Donbass, now the biolabs, the blockade of Prindestrovie. Sure. But we don't know what it was, or why it wasn't handled differently beforehand.

I doubt the invasion was to turn the Ukraine into part of a Eurasian empire - maybe that was the most optimistic war aim but I doubt anyone thought it was doable, to actually turn an invasion into a liberation. Far more effective would have simply been to wait some more years until the regime implodes on its own.

Either way the war seems to be going down the route of Syria and it's time to stop it, and negotiate something.

Aristide wrote:

And so far it looks good for us.

Why do you talk like CNN anchor? Have you tried RealPolitik?

Isos wrote:

Cared to check where Baranovichi base is located? 

Close enough to be targeted by last variants of Toshka which has 185km range.

I think they learned by probably having ad systems

Not enough unfortunately. Russia can't afford to loose planes because of stupidity. Spacing them won't kill them. It will only serve as a protection.

Aristide wrote:
Sure, but i can count 1 and 1 together. Given the fact that 2 days after Putlers invasion, the kremlin propaganda published a victory article and withdraw it within minutes...we can guess it was planned that Ukraine gives up with little resistance in 2 or 3 days. Putin did not expect that the people of Ukraine fight so hard. The entire operation is badly prepared and done.

Clearly not what they planed.

They were very well aware they wouldn't take Ukraine in 2-3 days. They knew a full out war would be hard and would end up with ukrainians fighting in cities using civilians as shields, that's why they moved field hospitals.

The tactic was to blow up major bases with cruise missiles and send light troops quickly to attack. There they knew there were 2 options, either ukrainian surrendered or keep fighting.

Ukrainians choosed to fight so they knew after the first 3 days that's gonna be a long war.

Ukrainian military was destroyed the first week, no matter what you hear on pro west sources. Navy was destroyed, fuel storages as well as munition depot and big bases targeted, air force destroyed... what is left is a guerilla using man portable weapons only. That's why there isn't footages of ukrainian tanks destroyed... most are still in tveir home bases untouched by ukrainians soldiers.

Destroying ukrainian military is worthless objective. Nobody expected Ukraine military to defeat Russia with this. The thing that changes evrything is the constant flow of MANPADS from EU and USA to Ukraine. Which makes this war impossible for Russia to win. Russia keeps accumulating losses and on other hand cant counter it in any way. So the effect is, that EU, UsA made Ukraine an Afghanistan for Russia. Burned earth. Russia loses equipment and personal and gains only ash.

Aristide wrote:

Isos wrote:

Cared to check where Baranovichi base is located? 

Close enough to be targeted by last variants of Toshka which has 185km range.

I think they learned by probably having ad systems

Not enough unfortunately. Russia can't afford to loose planes because of stupidity. Spacing them won't kill them. It will only serve as a protection.

Aristide wrote:
Sure, but i can count 1 and 1 together. Given the fact that 2 days after Putlers invasion, the kremlin propaganda published a victory article and withdraw it within minutes...we can guess it was planned that Ukraine gives up with little resistance in 2 or 3 days. Putin did not expect that the people of Ukraine fight so hard. The entire operation is badly prepared and done.

Clearly not what they planed.

They were very well aware they wouldn't take Ukraine in 2-3 days. They knew a full out war would be hard and would end up with ukrainians fighting in cities using civilians as shields, that's why they moved field hospitals.

The tactic was to blow up major bases with cruise missiles and send light troops quickly to attack. There they knew there were 2 options, either ukrainian surrendered or keep fighting.

Ukrainians choosed to fight so they knew after the first 3 days that's gonna be a long war.

Ukrainian military was destroyed the first week, no matter what you hear on pro west sources. Navy was destroyed, fuel storages as well as munition depot and big bases targeted, air force destroyed... what is left is a guerilla using man portable weapons only. That's why there isn't footages of ukrainian tanks destroyed... most are still in tveir home bases untouched by ukrainians soldiers.

Destroying ukrainian military is worthless objective. Nobody expected Ukraine military to defeat Russia with this. The thing that changes evrything is the constant flow of MANPADS from EU and USA to Ukraine. Which makes this war impossible for Russia to win. Russia keeps accumulating losses and on other hand cant counter it in any way. So the effect is, that EU, UsA made Ukraine an Afghanistan for Russia. Burned earth. Russia loses equipment and personal and gains only ash.

Well to me it was always obvious that it was going to turn into Afghanistan. We discussed this many times on the forum

And if it was obvious to me than it would have been obvious to the generals, despite whatever optimistic tactics and plans.

Anyway, I think this will all be over soon. I don't give a shit about the sanctions. I don't want the population there to suffer due to our political leadership's incompetency.

flamming_python wrote:

Aristide wrote:

Isos wrote:

Cared to check where Baranovichi base is located? 

Close enough to be targeted by last variants of Toshka which has 185km range.

I think they learned by probably having ad systems

Not enough unfortunately. Russia can't afford to loose planes because of stupidity. Spacing them won't kill them. It will only serve as a protection.

Aristide wrote:
Sure, but i can count 1 and 1 together. Given the fact that 2 days after Putlers invasion, the kremlin propaganda published a victory article and withdraw it within minutes...we can guess it was planned that Ukraine gives up with little resistance in 2 or 3 days. Putin did not expect that the people of Ukraine fight so hard. The entire operation is badly prepared and done.

Clearly not what they planed.

They were very well aware they wouldn't take Ukraine in 2-3 days. They knew a full out war would be hard and would end up with ukrainians fighting in cities using civilians as shields, that's why they moved field hospitals.

The tactic was to blow up major bases with cruise missiles and send light troops quickly to attack. There they knew there were 2 options, either ukrainian surrendered or keep fighting.

Ukrainians choosed to fight so they knew after the first 3 days that's gonna be a long war.

Ukrainian military was destroyed the first week, no matter what you hear on pro west sources. Navy was destroyed, fuel storages as well as munition depot and big bases targeted, air force destroyed... what is left is a guerilla using man portable weapons only. That's why there isn't footages of ukrainian tanks destroyed... most are still in tveir home bases untouched by ukrainians soldiers.

Destroying ukrainian military is worthless objective. Nobody expected Ukraine military to defeat Russia with this. The thing that changes evrything is the constant flow of MANPADS from EU and USA to Ukraine. Which makes this war impossible for Russia to win. Russia keeps accumulating losses and on other hand cant counter it in any way. So the effect is, that EU, UsA made Ukraine an Afghanistan for Russia. Burned earth. Russia loses equipment and personal and gains only ash.

Well to me it was always obvious that it was going to turn into Afghanistan. We discussed this many times on the forum

And if it was obvious to me than it would have been obvious to the generals, despite whatever optimistic tactics and plans.

Anyway, I think this will all be over soon. I don't give a shit about the sanctions. I don't want the population there to suffer due to our political leadership's incompetency.

Do you live in Russia? Do they show there how the ukrainians suffer from this?

I think thats the most ironic point. Russians call Ukrainians brothers but only bring misery there.

What do you think?



From https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/7489725.html

Flew in 23/4 Feb and still there.

Gerjon | חריון
@Gerjon_
·
2h
Two Turkish Air Force Airbus A400M cargo aircraft remain stranded at Kyiv Boryspil Airport, Ukraine, ️Sentinel-2 satellite imagery taken earlier today shows.

flamming_python wrote:

It's not either

It's Putin trying to correct a problem he allowed to occur in the first place in 2014 - with a massive invasion.

It was and is an crazy plan. I expected something smarter. Now he has bogged Russia down into some dump.

I'm sure there were things that provoked military action. Else Putin and Xi would have just bidden their time, which was very much on their side.
Like with the Taiwan issue as well, with America recently starting to support a separatist political party there.

The problem is that Putin and Lavrov with their absolutely uncompromising policy and ultimatums, and ever escalating demands - have put Russia into a position where there is no other option than victory. But the price this 'victory' may have on the Ukrainian population can be huge. Nobody deserves this, just because Putin miscalculated.

Don't know... the Nato question had to be solved one way or another. Stop the advancement of hostile forces into Russian borders - and eventually massing over the contracted borders. The preceding ultimatums were done on purpose. It's hard to think what else Russia could have done. No one can claim Russia wouldn't have tried with diplomacy. It tried for 30 years. Was not working.

It is a fact that this very problem (western hordes coming after Russia) was "permanently" solved after the WW2. The geopolitical architecture created back then was done on purpose to prevent 1941 from ever happening again. The Soviet people then pushed for the adequate buffer zones around main Russian lands and put the then-biggest threat, Germany, in check. Then certain figures only half a century later blew it up putting Russia again under the same threat that has haunted it for centuries.

Russia has several tasks to resolve and this is one of them

Resolution of Ukraine proceeds apace

2 weeks basically most of the country has fallen

The eastern grouping of the donbass needs to be cleansed

Once that is complete the operation proceeds

NATO took 30 days to reach Baghdad and did not take cities

They remained for years after to secure Ramadi, Anbar, Fallujah, Mosul, and the rest of Iraq

Russia is doing the capture of the capital and cleansing of cities in one go

2 weeks in and it's very good pace

Those losses would come no matter what, remember US had 4000+ deaths from Iraq

We are avoiding the insurgency phase by dealing with it now