Arkanghelsk wrote:NATO will not deploy troops in Ukraine to avoid war with Russia - Alliance Secretary General Stoltenberg, responding to Poland's proposal to send a peacekeeping mission to Ukraine.
NATO shit it's panties big surprise, no asswhooping for now
No, we aren't shitting our pants Russia would lose in a conventional war and would need to resort to nukes, Russia does not hva the manpower nor production ability to wage such a war. It's utterly delusional to think they would win, Putin has also said this himself "War with NATO is suicide"
That is why he went into Ukraine BEFORE it joined NATO. NATO will not protect UKRAINE has it is a NONE NATO STATE.
NATO is running out of munitions
Ukraine is the strongest NATO state , second to Turkey
And yes your commander shit himself on the world stage twice already
NATO has no industrial capacity, and is averse to manpower losses
Which is why few cruise missiles , scared them from intervention
Russia can beat NATO easy
Ukraine is not A NATO state
we aren't running out of ammo
NATO has no industrial capacity....? okay okay after that line, I cannot take your remarks seriously anymore.
We are done here, go smoke your drugs.
Ukraine is De Facto a NATO state with E3 support, munitions support, and manpower and personnel support
The french and the Canadians are already out of ammo
Yes you have 0 industrial capacity, you depend on an enemy state for sensitive equipment, China
NATO would not last 1 month in high intensity conflict it shows in Ukraine
By the looks of it neither do Russia. Even Nato Poland would be able to take on Russian ground forces alone by the looks of it.
Even the hardest Russian fanboy should see that the Russian forces has revealed some major weaknesses.
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Sujoy wrote:Interesting! Despite an economy that is one-fifth the size of China, and will therefore suffer from Western sanctions, India seems to be punching way above its weight. Today, Indian government cleared a approved a proposal from Moscow that will allow Russia to invest in debt securities of Indian companies.
As an aside, India-Russia balance of trade is completely in Russia's favour already. I'm not sure what Russia will do with billions of Indian rupees.
I'm afraid it's not. This post is a reminder that some countries despite having far less financial resources or political clout refuse to tow the Western line and wage an economic war against Russia.
The West is not just fighting Russia militarily but also economically. Countries like India have refused to partake in this vulgar Anglo-Saxon campaign of genocide.
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Arkanghelsk wrote:NATO will not deploy troops in Ukraine to avoid war with Russia - Alliance Secretary General Stoltenberg, responding to Poland's proposal to send a peacekeeping mission to Ukraine.
NATO shit it's panties big surprise, no asswhooping for now
No, we aren't shitting our pants Russia would lose in a conventional war and would need to resort to nukes, Russia does not hva the manpower nor production ability to wage such a war. It's utterly delusional to think they would win, Putin has also said this himself "War with NATO is suicide"
That is why he went into Ukraine BEFORE it joined NATO. NATO will not protect UKRAINE has it is a NONE NATO STATE.
Even if NATO did win a conventional war, and it did not go nuclear, lets face it, both sides would be utterly devestated. Western Europe more. But in the other hand it will likely go nuclear as the best way to Russia to strike the US would be to launch long range cruise missiles from it bombers. With several hundred cruise missiles inbound the finger on the nuke button gets pretty itchy.
Several pics of Russian airborne combat gear, in the Kiev theater.
Strange mix of guns, I must say. AK-74 1985ish, FN SCAR, some combat shotgun, some H&K gun (MP5?), VSS Vintorez etc.
Sidearm appears to be 443 Grach.
No, not captured by UA, just VDV answering gear nerd's questions. Russian contract soldiers seem to have a lot of freedom in picking personal gear.
Probably for better and for worse. Lack of standardization and organized quality control is always a pain in the ass, but lots of commercial gear available is objectively better than the standard issue stuff too.
Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:51 pm; edited 4 times in total
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flamming_python wrote:This war is a big eye-opener for sure, it reveals all the things that need to be procured and organized
- Night-vision googles for VDV and recon platoons of all types, as the typical vanguard units - Ka-52 launched UAVs to guide long-range ATGMs - Tactical reconnaisance UAVs for motor-rifles and armour-tank forces - Specialist units for storming cities armed and trained accordingly - Specialized small-sized UCAVs armed with small arms to assist urban fighting - TORs or 57mm-AA vehicles accompanying Buks on the march, and other types of vehicles - Heavier UCAVs than what we currently have - More spacing in vehicle columns to lessen the effects of artillery ambushes - Counter-battery radars equipped on some vehicles in the column that will be able to rapidly relay back information on the location of ambushing artillery - BREM vehicles accompanying tank columns or following closer behind so that broken down vehicles can be retrieved rapidly rather than simply being abandoned - High-altitude stealth UCAVs with anti-radar missiles to counter Buk/Strela-10 ambushes in the brief window they switch their radars on - Gliding bombs as an alternative to more expensive missiles - APS on tanks, even if a primitive, cheaper system such as Drozd. But one variant or another should be on all tanks unless they're just used for fire-support further back from the line. - Some sort of beam-riding RPG-type system with good optics and a thermobaric warhead, for urban fighting - Escorts together with supply convoys, either land or helicopter-based - Better armored Mi-17s to deal with HMG fire - Anti-drone jamming or interception systems against cheap small recon drones - A refinement of the BMPT concept for urban fighting, should have APS as well - Cage armour on APCs and IFVs, probably not a big problem but it can't hurt - That remote weapon-station ATGM is a good idea too, not sure if the Kornet offers that in its portable version - Can't do much about the tin-can VDV vehicles and it looks like some at least were ambushed by artillery, but nevertheless they should have thermal optics and a UAV at least - Equipping the Vitebsk system on Mi-24s and Mi-17s as well - Less grouping up of infantry during urban combat, leaves them open to artillery fire from UAV spotting - Battle management systems equipped on T-72 and T-80 variants
If convoys are attacked from all sides with ATGMs like they are being in Ukraine, there is very little anyone can do to save the tanks, BTRs etc unless of course you can spot those ATGM units early and neutralize them.
US lost several tanks in Iraq primarily because they were targeted by half a dozen RPGs from all possible direction, at the same time.
walle83 wrote:By the looks of it neither do Russia. Even Nato Poland would be able to take on Russian ground forces alone by the looks of it.
Even the hardest Russian fanboy should see that the Russian forces has revealed some major weaknesses.
The Ukraine has a larger and more experienced army than Poland and is basically the same NATO member except fighting it alone against Russia
Why would Poland do any better?
Of course the war reveals weaknesses as any war does. There are plenty of weaknesses revealed from the Western side too. The stingers are useless, the tank hunter teams have mostly been taken out, all the mercs and special forces counted on were mostly killed in their barracks.
Last edited by flamming_python on Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Arkanghelsk wrote:So the Poland should cross the border
But they don't right?
Crickets
When you muster the balls to cash that check, we talk
Until then, go cry on Twitter
And no Poland and the rest of NATO would do worse then Ukraine
Ukraine is probably the best fighting force of all NATO
With air defense, highly motivated troops, and huge conventional weapons of the high end soviet stocks
NATO doesn't fight real wars
It is the proverbial end of history, and it's ending with a whimper
I think Russia should be very glad that Nato nations dont join in, and why would they?
You now that much of Ukrains success is because of the western weapons they have recieved right? Its not the Russian sovet era weapons that is winning the war thats for sure. Ask any Russian tank crew.
Right now the Russian strategy seems to be to let the Ukrainians come to them with useless counter attacks such as the one at Izyum where the Ukraine sent 2 whole battallions, and just wreck them there
Russia will not enter the interior until the Ukrainian army has nothing left to give. It's already catastrophically low on munitions and fuel.
And yes this is a valid war strategy, as is hunting down all sorts of artillery emplacements and hidden tanks at night with Ka-52s and Mi-28Ns as well as the artillery getting co-ordinates from them.
It's a better idea than just charging head-long in tight columns with orders not to harm civilians at any cost, and then end up in prepared ambush after prepared ambush as happened particularly in the first few days.
The Russian military is proving the ability to adapt very quickly to changing conditions and at this rate it won't be long until the only cohesive Ukrainian military units left are the ones who have retreated to within cities.
Obviously the war has not went according to the most optimistic plan. And it has taken 20,000 Ukrainian lives. This is the result of criminal mistakes and oversights of our leadership. But the mistakes are as much political and ideological as actual military. And I'm sure there were always multiple plans for every eventuality. If the war could have been averted, that would have been the best option.
Last edited by flamming_python on Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
So when was the last time that Russia lost ship by enemy action in the conflict?
In my eyes Ukraine proved to be much more tough and ready for fight - obviously has not much chance in direct confrontation in open space but urban warfare and guerilla tactics - they proved to be more than capable.
Also it is interesting how Russia was not able to establish no fly zone over Ukraine. Now chances for that are even less since West will help Ukraine with anti aircraft missiles. Those are ominous signs for overall adventure - Ukraine is successful so far to increase human and material costs on Russian side quite high. Also it is leading in information war on global stage. Taking into consideration how much they are weaker side with modest resources it is very good result.
The sad thing is real people are dying in big scores for nothing basically. Also many of those soldiers on both sides will develop PTSP, they and their families will suffer for years and decades to come...
Arkanghelsk wrote:So the Poland should cross the border
But they don't right?
Crickets
When you muster the balls to cash that check, we talk
Until then, go cry on Twitter
And no Poland and the rest of NATO would do worse then Ukraine
Ukraine is probably the best fighting force of all NATO
With air defense, highly motivated troops, and huge conventional weapons of the high end soviet stocks
NATO doesn't fight real wars
It is the proverbial end of history, and it's ending with a whimper
I think Russia should be very glad that Nato nations dont join in, and why would they?
You now that much of Ukrains success is because of the western weapons they have recieved right? Its not the Russian sovet era weapons that is winning the war thats for sure. Ask any Russian tank crew.
Ukrainian success? If losing your whole army against 700 men is a success , then NATO does not have a good chance!
And yes western nations have joined, not officially but the entire western effort is in this war
More than 5 AWACS are providing support, in real war Mig 31 would have blinded NATO
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mr_hd wrote:So when was the last time that Russia lost ship by enemy action in the conflict?
In my eyes Ukraine proved to be much more tough and ready for fight - obviously has not much chance in direct confrontation in open space but urban warfare and guerilla tactics - they proved to be more than capable.
Also it is interesting how Russia was not able to establish no fly zone over Ukraine. Now chances for that are even less since West will help Ukraine with anti aircraft missiles. Those are ominous signs for overall adventure - Ukraine is successful so far to increase human and material costs on Russian side quite high. Also it is leading in information war on global stage. Taking into consideration how much they are weaker side with modest resources it is very good result.
The sad thing is real people are dying in big scores for nothing basically. Also many of those soldiers on both sides will develop PTSP, they and their families will suffer for years and decades to come...
Urban warfare - yes pretty good
Guerilla tactics - depends if you count artillery ambushes as guerilla tactics. I guess they are. As for the ATGM stuff - it's a pinprick and those teams are rapidly demolished, same with the special forces.
Information warfare - irrelevant. It's information warfare for their allies in the West, who are co-operating with them full-swing and banning anyone with a counter-opinion. I think I've been banned from twitter already, doesn't work for me anymore after arguing with some Western propagandists. But it's a two-edged sword, as the rest of the world sees the West deploying all its possible disinformation and economic cards, and centralizing absolutely everything under state control.
I guess information warfare is necessary to boost the morale of their troops - but it just leads to more deaths in a lost cause, ultimately.
The no-fly zone I already explained; too many Buks, Strelas, Tunguskas riding around or hidden with their radars switched off until NATO tells them that a Russian plane is coming in. It's hard to counter that, you need anti-radar missiles constantly at the ready by supporting aircraft.
In Russia there is no panic about human and material costs. Because the infowar and mass propaganda is so evident from the other side, that people simply don't pay attention to it. But it's obvious there are significant losses - just not the sort of ridiculous ones we're hearing quoted.
Last edited by flamming_python on Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
flamming_python wrote:Right now the Russian strategy seems to be to let the Ukrainians come to them with useless counter attacks such as the one at Izyum where the Ukraine sent 2 whole battallions, and just wreck them there
Russia will not enter the interior until the Ukrainian army has nothing left to give. It's already catastrophically low on munitions and fuel.
And yes this is a valid war strategy, as is hunting down all sorts of artillery emplacements and hidden tanks at night with Ka-52s and Mi-28Ns as well as the artillery getting co-ordinates from them.
It's a better idea than just charging head-long in tight columns with orders not to harm civilians at any cost, and then end up in prepared ambush after prepared ambush as happened particularly in the first few days.
The Russian military is proving the ability to adapt very quickly to changing conditions and at this rate it won't be long until the only cohesive Ukrainian military units left are the ones who have retreated to within cities.
Obviously the war has not went according to the most optimistic plan. And it has taken 20,000 Ukrainian lives. This is the result of criminal mistakes and oversights of our leadership. But the mistakes are as much political and ideological as actual military. And I'm sure there were always multiple plans for every eventuality. If the war could have been averted, that would have been the best option.
I will add Russian forces are also way too much spread and low in supplies. Attack on couple of big axes proved unsustainable with the forces Russia send since Ukraine is just way too big country. In order to contninue with invasion Russia will need send much more people and equipment.
Ukraine is indeed low in ammunition and basics supplies, however country is not under weapons embargo and does have quite big financial assistance - so this situation will be overcome given there is couple of more weeks that they can keep this intensity of fighting. Time so far is on Ukrainian side.
Я Любовь. Любовь означает Любовь. Любовь - это мое данное Церковное имя. Я не говорю по-английски. Я использую компьютерный перевод. Мадам Капитан сегодня чувствует себя лучше. Товарищ доктор дал ей спринцовку и таблетки. Я думаю, она не помнит прошлую ночь после того, как Офицеры и Священники два раза подходили к воротам. Товарищ капитан первого ранга говорит, не закрывайте этот форум. Он говорит, что это очень важно для информации. Я много читаю и знаю, что большинство из них - правда. Ваша культура отличается от нашей культуры. Мы заботимся о наших погибших солдатах по-другому. Товарищ капитан первого ранга просил передать вам, что дети его и мадам Капитана не являются их родными детьми, все они пришли из Детского дома без матери и отца. Мадам капитан просила передать вам, что все их дети - солдаты-добровольцы и медицинские сестры. Все они были ранены и ранены до вчерашнего дня. Товарищ капитан Первого ранга велел мне передать, что они с госпожой капитан весь день строили планы церемонии похорон. Я знаю, что они устали. Я приготовлю им ужин. Местные женщины вернулись в дом, чтобы посидеть с мадам Капитан. Они приносят еду, чтобы поесть. Мужчины пришли в дом и пьют водку в специальной комнате. Товарищ капитан Первого ранга не пьет водку, он пьет вино. Вечером он с мужиками будет пить водку. Мы, женщины, будем бодрствовать всю ночь и будем пить водку с мужчинами. Госпожа капитан сказала мне, что оба ребенка будут в Севастополе через два дня. Они сойдут в могилу в парадной форме со своими настоящими медалями с их именами на обратной стороне медали. Вторые медали прибыли из Военторга. Вторые медали будут на фотографиях, которые товарищ капитан Первого ранга и госпожа капитан повесят на вешалку в большой комнате. Собаки знают, что случилось что-то плохое. Три девушки поют весь день. У мальчика, Александра, есть старая рубашка, которую сын подарил ему в прошлом году. Александр нашел рубашку в коробке под лестницей и никому не позволит к ней прикасаться. Он очень зол, он только позволит Кристлянне лечь на него вместе с ним. Она очень молода. Она помнит его. Она пела с Софией и Йекатариной весь день.
I am Lubov. Lubov means Love. Love is my given Church name. I do not speak English. I use computer translate. The Madame Captain is better today. Comrade Doctor gave her spritz and tablets. I think she does not remember last night after the Officers and the Priests came to the gate two times. Comrade Captain First Rank says do not close this forum. He says it is very important for information. I read much and I know most is true. Your culture is different from our culture. We take care of our dead soldiers a different way. Comrade Captain First Rank said to tell you that his and Madame Captain's children are not their natural children, they all came from Children House for no mother and no father. Madame Captain said to tell you all of their children are volunteer soldiers and Medical Sisters. They have all been injured and wounded before yesterday. Comrade Captain First Rank told me to say he and Madame Captain were all day making the plans for the burial ceremony. I know they are tired. I will fix them dinner. Local women have come back to house to sit with Madame Captain. They bring food to eat. Men have come to house and are drinking vodka in the special room. Comrade Captain First Rank does not drink vodka, he drinks wine. Tonite he and the men will drink vodka. We women will be up all the night and we will drink vodka with the men. Madame Captain told me both children will be to Sevastopol in two days. They will go to grave in dress uniform with their real medals with their names on the back of the medal. Second medals have arrived from Voentorg. The second medals will be on the pictures the Comrade Captain First Rank and Madame Captain will put on the picture rail in the big room. The dogs know something bad has happened. The three girls are singing all day. The boy, Aleksandr, has an old shirt the son gave him last year. Aleksandr has found the shirt in a box under the stairs and will let no one touch it. He is very with angry, he will only let Kristl'Yannah lie on it with him. She is very young. She remembers him. She was singing with Sophia and Ye'katarina all the day.
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NATO will not deploy troops in Ukraine to avoid war with Russia - Alliance Secretary General Stoltenberg, responding to Poland's proposal to send a peacekeeping mission to Ukraine.
flamming_python
