Russian special military operation in Ukraine #8

crod wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:

crod wrote:

franco wrote:

crod wrote:

Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Russia counted on the "international" reaction (EU/US sphere), hence the sanction-proofing over the past half decade.

They aren't taking major cities because that's not the plan. They're destroying the UA military, it's a pacification. For now.

Kiev and Odessa / West side of Dnieper are feints. Each tie down a quarter of the combat strength of the Ukrainian Army. Leaving 50% of the combat troops stretched from Mariupol to Kharkov... this force is now being erased while the other two forces are being degraded. But don't tell anyone, the West still has not caught on.  

So you’re suggesting that was the only military objective from the outset, to secure the Donbas region only and to divide the uki forces in order for it to do so?

So what’s the plan on how they’re going to hold this region now out of interest? Everyman and his dog has watched over the decades how a poorer equipped and trained force can keep a military power virtually on its knees from Iraq to Yemen to Afghanistan. The uni forces will be provided a lot of military aid, money and political support.

How is the objective secured going forward or more pertinently, how does Russia ensure they don’t end up with a negative objective outcome?

You don't get it.  Ukraines people are not the problem, at least in the East and South.  Once the regime is gone, and a loyalist crew of Ukrainains are in charge, the liberated areas will be readily secured (just like kherson and Melitopol are today).

The idea that there will be some sort of insurgency is nonsense.  Murkans faced insurgencies in their wars (of agression) cuz they were ruthless and destructive foreigners who didn't speak the local language, were totally ignorant of customs, didn't respect locals or their ways of life, and didn't care to learn any different.  Russians don't have that problem.

so no insurgency will come from  western ukraine then...you seem to write with such authority too.

Before i have an go at you, care to explain your motives Armchair General?.

crod wrote:so no insurgency will come from  western ukraine then...you seem to write with such authority too.

I didn't mention Western Ukraine

I can think of plenty of options for the bandera goblins... but which to choose...  

And let's be realistic here, if other cities will fall as Mariupol - collateral damage will not be as small. It's impossible to take the fortified cities without damaging them. And Ukraine is turning all its major population centers into fortresses. They can't do anything else at this point.

So Ukraine will end up looking like Syria... the pro US kurds can live in rubble that the US and EU wont pay to fix because they will say the Russians did it... despite the 8 years of asset stripping they have done, while the Assad held areas will get rebuilt and normal life restored...

And if it weren't for the initial mistakes of allowing attacks from the rear when they stretched the lines too far without adequate protection the casualties would be much lower....

They would have had to have had a completely different force structure if they wanted to protect their supply lines enough to actually make a difference, which would have completely changed the advance and would probably have led to more losses to the front line forces.

How is Russian interdiction of NATO resupply going? Any insights into this? If they allow NATO resupply, this is a needless waste of life.

They seem to be hitting fuel and ammo dumps easily enough and regularly enough.

No, what it would change? In the end you still need to negotiate with someone

No you don't.

Occupy the areas you want to be neutral and then set the boundaries to hard boundaries and then let the locals elect a government and start the referendums on letting them decide their future including all their options that Russia will allow.

But India isn't, so Western sanctions will have an adverse effect on India. Therefore, India needs to do business with the West.

If western sanctions will have an adverse effect on India then India should start cutting all ties with the west, because the west uses sanctions against everybody it does business with.
Wouldn't India prefer to make its own choices and decisions and not be told by the US what weapons it can buy and from whom?

First:

That guy is a Psyops guy who was also used in Syria and Iraq. He was identified by numerous sources on Twitter, including people from Syria.

and the next post:

For the record paint can and will burn off when exposed to high heat etc a vehicle being on fire can melt off the paint, so just because you see no Z it doesn't mean its not Russian

So one US psyops guy is revealed and our own US psyops guy pops up to defend him... not suspicious at all...

Given the very tough fights in Mariupol, will Russia capture Odessa and Kharkiv? These are much larger cities. There will be huge losses of both military and civilian . So what could be the future of Russia? Currently, they are unable to overthrow the government in Kiev or capture Kharkiv or Odessa? Unless they reckon with huge losses.In addition, large damage to the city infrastructure.

Russia is dealing with a threat on its border that had to be dealt with.

The fact that it is taking time is a good indication that they are being careful to do it right.

There is no urgency here... rushing leads to fuckups and more deaths... Russian military and Ukrainian civilian deaths, so time is being well spent.

The Chinese are the smartest ones here actually

The West will collapse, Russia will inherit a whole bunch of hostility and butthurt and probably lose Armenia and Kazakhstan/Kyrgyzstan, and China will become the new financial centre.

The west is revealing its true colours which gives China a choice and like the Ukrainian president that the US overthrew, the choice is obviously not the west.

If China does become a new financial centre then good... better than the UK or EU or US, who abuse the priviledge and use it to blackmail and bully other countries.

Don't forget all this wailing about civilian casualties in the Ukraine... how many Afghans died because the west siezed their governments money being stored in the west for safe keeping?

Quite dastardly of Putin to sell Armenia like that.

Honestly, Armenia seemed to prefer help from the west and when it wasn't forthcoming looked to Russia instead... If Armenia refuses to send troops into NK to help their own people why should Russia be too bothered.

I am waiting for Gary's permission to post what Lubov and he wrote to each other. I will not post it without his permission.

There was nothing secret there... if you wish to share with the group that is fine.

You do what needs to be done with your family with you, there would be a lot less hate and war in the world if everyone came together for everyone else like your extended family does.

Nazi scum are so rabid that they rather die to the last one in Kharkov or Mariupol,

Pretty sure the Russian soldiers wouldn't want it any other way...

Wasn't there a movie made once about an American politician creating this fictional war with Canada only on film. Never saw it but remember reading about it in the past.

Or was that Southpark?

And now that the damage is done and lives lost, Macron swoops in with the offer

What a politicians politician he is... greasy little worm.

Here Russia is at fault too, for taking the Crimea and thereby presenting itself as a threat, but that was kind of unavoidable.

Russia didn't take anything, the current operation shows they couldn't have taken Crimea by force if Crimea didn't choose to go in the first place, they had already chosen to go several times before but their requests were ignored by Kiev who wanted to keep the cash cow that is Crimea.

The threat to the Ukraine came from the US... the nazis, the bio weapons labs and soon nukes.

Not to mention forcing them to cut themselves off from their biggest and main trading partner and live off IMF loans and crumbs thrown to them by the US and UK MIC.

The entire thing looks like a cluster **** from start to finish and has now left Russia completely isolated from the world.

I would call a cluster **** having all teh VDV forces shot down in their aircraft, and the Russian landing ships destroyed before they launched their attack... neither of which happened.

And please don't confuse the west with the world... and even then the west has not stopped buying gas and oil no matter what they claim publicly.

Remember they also said solar power and wind will replace all fossil fuel sources of energy... how did that turn out BTW?

It underestimated at every turn: the Ukrainian response and capabilities, the scope of international sanctions and the resolve of the West. I’ve no idea how many are dead but was it worth it? Were 5 generals really killed? Problems run deep it would appear in the Russian military apparatus. What a mess. And here’s the thing, if the reports are accurate re scaling back ops, the Ukrainian military have more than enough anti armour and other weapons plus a shed load other support coming to them to wreak havoc in those sooner to be annexed districts.
What a bloody shambles. It can not be sold as anything but.

Western claims of ambushes and orc victories do not conceal the swastika of truth that these fuckers were about to invade and who knows if that would include just Donbass and Lugansk or Crimea as well, but then those first two regions were already partially occupied by Orcs and shelled on a regular basis so they have been at war all this time anyway.

Bio weapons, Nazis, nuclear weapons... sounds like Castle Wolfenstein is going to get a reboot but with a Russian special forces protagonist to kill those scum...

Maybe an appearance of the ghost of Allbright and Clinton, but the main hard core enemy can be Oblama... the git who set this who shit show up in 2014.

Russia counted on the "international" reaction (EU/US sphere), hence the sanction-proofing over the past half decade.

They aren't taking major cities because that's not the plan. They're destroying the UA military, it's a pacification. For now.

You get it... they are there to kill nazis, not capture towns... capturing towns will either lead to Russian fire power killing civilians used as meat shields or the nazis just killing the civilians and filming it and claiming the Russians did it.

If say Cuba started talking about retaking Guantanamo bay I'd hope my country's leaders had the balls to push the Cubans back.

Personally I think Cuba should clear the territory all round Gitmo and just pile rubbish there... buy foreign rubbish off ships... the stinkier the better and just pile it up around the US base there... set fire to it and let it burn constantly sending toxic smoke and stink into the US base...

Then why were they attempting to break into Kiev et al.

They are not. They have partially surrounded it and likely have sent special forces in there to find Comms centres and bunkers and fuel and ammo dumps that would be worthy of striking, but there has been no attempt to take the city at all.

Went too far with poor logistics, got stretched and met with very stiff resistance from a very determined and committed defence force.

They have invaded and mostly conquered a country with the recon and scout forces that normally operate in advance of motor rifle and tank divisions, this is a very light invasion with a fraction of the armour and artillery and air defence they would normally operate with.

It’s causing re hardship for the Russian people and industry.

Yes, all those trillions of US dollars of contracts they have with the west to supply them everything have been cancelled... what?

The thing is that the stuff they actually do sell, like gas and oil, is so valuable now they are making more money now than they have made in the last 10 years... you do understand that when you extract gas out of the ground and put it into a pipe system that delivers it to a customer your costs are fixed and are very very low, so when stupid market speculating and spot prices BS from the EU pushes the price up 10 times more than it would normally be then your costs haven't changed... that price increase is just all gravy...

I’m sure the Chinese will re-enter on those projects once the heat is off but the West won’t be too quick and it will hasten the need to remove dependency upon Russian gas.

**** the west... don't you understand, they put nazis and bio weapons labs and were planning to arm your neighbours with nuclear weapons.... they are not playing a game... they want Russians dead.... Poroshenko and Zelensky have been claiming the people of the Donbass and Lugansk are Russians and that it is Russian forces they were fighting from Russian Army units.... pretty clear now that that was Bull Shit, but these guys have the verbal support of the west to kill their own people and it is OK because they are Russian.... it is OK to kill people if they are Russian... and you are bitching because they might not sell Russia Iphones, or might not be friends.... they are mortal enemies... but don't let it get you down... Russia isn't their first enemy... they have been treating most countries on the planet the way they are treating you... they are the 11% who consider themselves the world... well look at a map... the world they are not:

The other irony is that the actor come president had an approval rating in the low 20s before this but now enjoys somewhere in the 80s and will be seen as the hero of the Ukrainian people and nation. They are emboldened now which makes them even more dangerous and capable.

Gorbachev and Yeltsen were huge heroes in the west too... not so well remembered in their home countries now of course...

The clown got elected on promises of better relations with Russia and solving the problems with the Donbass and Lugansk... well the latter is getting sorted out but can he honestly claim he helped in any way to achieve that?

Unlike the west who needed PGMs as long as Russia has Su-24 and dumb bombs it can continue to bomb fairly accurately.

Russia also has large stocks of Iskander too...

As much as I despise nazis, lets not repeat ancient propaganda tropes about "gas chambers" - the nazis were scum and richly deserved their eventual fate, but that doesn't mean that the allegations the victors made (and continue to assert) are all true.

First time I have heard such things and you make a good case... the west is not well known for telling the truth at the best of times, and claims of Russians shooting down airliners over Ukraine or Novachok use in the UK, I simply don't believe anything they say these days... they are not worthy of respect and trust.

I see that the next members of the forum stand firmly on the Russian side; Big Gazza, Airbornewolf, Hole, Werewolf, Miketheterrible, KVS, Arkhangelsk, Firebird, Magnumcromagnon, LMFS, D.taddei, Gunshipdemocracy, Urluber, Par far, Ispan, Franco.

The way the west is heading that is likely how our names will be listed in the court documents....

Walle83; keep dreaming that the United States is something like the Roman Empire. It is not and never will be, nor will it last that long.

When everyone buys your money for any international trade then you can print as much as you please, but when you start to use it as a weapon and lots of large countries stop accepting it in payment for anything then confidence in your currency is effected... and when they look at how much you have printed, they will start to get nervous... who wants to end up stuck with the paper nobody accepts as money?

When the money your throw around is worthless then so is your power over others in your gang...

Consider it a positive. These monkeys can't do squat about the failure of their Banderite colony if they aren't even capable of internalising the truth. This is what you get when you have a political and executive class system where advancement can only be achieved by those who faithfully adhere to ideologically-mandated narratives. They become a dsyfunctional circle-jerk of like-minded fools who reject reality and can only apply their time-worn orthodoxies that are doomed to failure.

It is called yes man syndrome... happened to companies in the 70s and 80s where the people who agreed with the boss got jobs as advisors and those that disagreed got fired so pretty soon everyone at or near the top knew they could stay there and keep their ridiculous salary by agreeing with what every idea the boss had... even obviously stupid ideas. The result would be collapse of the company usually because nobody thought there were any problems so solutions were never sought after so problems just got worse until things broke... a bit like the US and the west.

So you’re suggesting that was the only military objective from the outset, to secure the Donbas region only and to divide the uki forces in order for it to do so?

The goal is to trap and kill nazis in the open areas preferably because inside cities they will kill civilians as they are extracted.

Most of the Orc forces are along the front lines of the Donbass and Lugansk and when they are dealt with that will free up a lot of forces and resources to deal with other groups of orcs.

So what’s the plan on how they’re going to hold this region now out of interest?

Holding is easy, they have air power and artillery... a force large enough to dislodge them is a force asking to be obliterated ...

Kids growing up without an spine, be absolute cowards when push comes to shove in the West.
Pathetic.

The irony is that they hate Putin because he does not love and promote gay lifestyles or sexually aberrent behaviour... so they hate him because they say he is intollerant, while being the most intollerant culture on the planet where one mistake and a lynch mob hunts you on line and tries to get you fired from your place of employment... how is that tollerant?

The irony is they hate others for their supposed intollerance for their values while ignoring any values others might hold.

Judging others by your own ethics and morals is just bigotry... the more so when you don't live up to your own ethics and morals when it comes to other groups... Serbs, Iranians, Russians, North Koreans, Cubans, Chinese... they are all fair game, but don't you criticise some 12 year old who does not know whether he wants to be a boy or a girl or neither today.... gender shaming wont be tolerated...

University lecturers get fired for getting this wrong...

would such a pact hold? this is what i'm not so sure about.

It is their country.... it was hijacked by the US and some nazis and Russia is cleaning house for them because they were becoming a real threat to Russia.

If they want to go back to the west that is up to them really, but it is pretty clear Putin is done with the west and that Russia is going to reorient itself to look to the rest of the world for future growth and development... which is simply not possible with the west.

I would also think they will now start funding their own bio labs and start workng on genetic weapons to deal with europeans if they need it... it is only common sense now that US plans are revealed.

so no insurgency will come from western ukraine then...you seem to write with such authority too.

I doubt they will do anything to even occupy that area, but it will receive gifts from above in any storage areas with weapons or fuel and concentrations of Orc forces...

Plenty of room in Ukraine for the insurgency to be planned, usually in a civilian environment. Not to mention they can do this abroad as well.

Of course, but if they want to play that game the gloves will come off for the western portions of the Ukraine that Russia probably really does not care so much about, not to mention they likely are locating targets via EW equipment and aircraft that they have just been listening to so far...

There is likely plenty they could do to step up destruction if they wanted to.

Russia got rid of the chem and bio weapons, but they clearly need to get them back and develop them further... in the mean time tactical nukes would be justified...

ucmvulcan wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:

ucmvulcan wrote:What is going on in Kherson?

Russia is handing out aid to those in need.
Locals are handing in guns handed out by the "previous adminsitration".
Life is trying to return to a pre-2014 normal.
Banderites are gnashing their teeth and plotting ways to blow stuff up and kill people in revenge for daring to reject their fascist ideology and getting on with their lives.
NATOista sock pupets are trying to figure out how to spin it all to make Russia look bad.

I was just checking because the New York Times and the Pentagram are gloating that Kherson is either contested or retaken by the Ukes.  You would not believe the insane amount of distortion and propaganda that happens in America.

The Ukrs sent some forces down the bank of the Dniepr a couple of days ago and occupied some villages in the Kherson region nearest Nikolayev

They weren't confronted by any Russian forces

That's called 'contesting Kherson'

That this makes no military sense is another matter. It's a pure propaganda move.

flamming_python wrote:
The Ukrs sent some forces down the bank of the Dniepr a couple of days ago and occupied some villages in the Kherson region nearest Nikolayev
They weren't confronted by any Russian forces
That's called 'contesting Kherson'
That this makes no military sense is another matter. It's a pure propaganda move.

Not even that
They were sneaking some troops on foot and hiding them in mud, waiting for a great victory.
Until Russkies found out, came, and closed the circus