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Log inIt depends on how much the US is paying them as to how serious it gets.ATLASCUB wrote:Russia has a serious problem with the Azerbaijan leadership. Directly challenging a Russian peace keeping mission to send a message, and embarrass the Russian leadership, at a very opportunistic time. Can't have any two bit leader thinking they can get away with it otherwise other states get funny ideas, feel empowered, miscalculate and place Russia is a worse off position by forcing it to slap these leaders in the face. At the same time it's not ideal to slap the Azerbaijani leadership right now due to the obvious. It's not by random chance the Azerbaijani's are doing this now.
That's a problem, on top of conflict resolution problem, on top of Armenia's leadership problem as well.
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Russian special military operation in Ukraine #8
Erk- Posts : 933
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Karl Haushofer
Karl Haushofer- Posts : 1228
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- Post n°427
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #8
Karl Haushofer Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:17 pm
These are the brotherly people according to putins outdated view.
teh_beard- Posts : 83
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You fap on those or something?
Either way, those videos of torture circulating among Russian troops as well. As proof of Ukrainian war crimes it interests noone - one part of the world already knows, the other will deny it regardless. If the intent was to scare Russian troops, the effect is opposite.
Survival rate and chance to luck out and become a POW just gone down for every Ukraininan soldier.
Either way, those videos of torture circulating among Russian troops as well. As proof of Ukrainian war crimes it interests noone - one part of the world already knows, the other will deny it regardless. If the intent was to scare Russian troops, the effect is opposite.
Survival rate and chance to luck out and become a POW just gone down for every Ukraininan soldier.
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Karl Haushofer- Posts : 1228
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- Post n°429
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #8
Karl Haushofer Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:18 pm
What if azeris attack armenia and Georgia attacks ossetia at the same time?
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Karl Haushofer- Posts : 1228
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- Post n°430
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #8
Karl Haushofer Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:27 pm
teh_beard wrote:You fap on those or something?
Either way, those videos of torture circulating among Russian troops as well. As proof of Ukrainian war crimes it interests noone - one part of the world already knows, the other will deny it regardless. If the intent was to scare Russian troops, the effect is opposite.
Survival rate and chance to luck out and become a POW just gone down for every Ukraininan soldier.
Doesnt matter. Putin will not allow bad things to be done to brotherly people.
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mnrck- Posts : 90
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Those Ukrops need to be Iskandered, all of them.
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lancelot- Posts : 3147
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That whole place is a trap. The best thing to do in case of a trap is not to get into it in the first place. Unless you know how to disarm it.Karl Haushofer wrote:What if azeris attack armenia and Georgia attacks ossetia at the same time?
Russia needs to sell weapons to Iran and delegate things like that to them.
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teh_beard- Posts : 83
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Well. Azerbaijan is just historically part of Greater Dagestan...lancelot wrote:That whole place is a trap. The best thing to do in case of a trap is not to get into it in the first place. Unless you know how to disarm it.
Russia needs to sell weapons to Iran and delegate things like that to them.
Brotherly people seem to be burning something fiery from all those reactive flamethrower barrages though.Karl Hushofer wrote:Doesnt matter. Putin will not allow bad things to be done to brotherly people.
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teh_beard wrote:You fap on those or something?
Either way, those videos of torture circulating among Russian troops as well. As proof of Ukrainian war crimes it interests noone - one part of the world already knows, the other will deny it regardless. If the intent was to scare Russian troops, the effect is opposite.
Survival rate and chance to luck out and become a POW just gone down for every Ukraininan soldier.
No doubt torture exits on both sides, but only one side has monopoly there.
Not sure if hanging is genuine, last time it was fake psyops, but there are videos of Russian army servicemen with their legs shot and beaten and with bags on their heads. They will all die from their wounds due to blood loss and torture.
Ukrainian soldiers usually are treated very decently, at worse they can get beaten up by DNR/LNR guys or outright shot, but not meticulously tortured.
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RTN- Posts : 756
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That Indian fella has a habit of making baseless anti West comments which he himself has never been able to prove. U.S, U.K went to Iraq to commit genocide is one of those idiotic third world comment.flamming_python wrote: Su-25s can only hit what they can see
The enemy is adapt at camouflaging and hiding their positions
A-10s, Apache's and Predator drones were sent to all major Iraqi cities before any of our tanks rolled in. We were able to effectively target Iraqi snipers, ATGM and V-SHORAD groups.
Although I don't expect Su-25 to have the same kind of hit tech situational awareness systems that A-10s and other US fighter have.
Chinooks, Black Hawks were vulnerable too, to Iraqi SAMs. But sending in airborne units before MBTs roll in is far superior a strategy than sending in infantry by road along with tank columns.flamming_python wrote: Mi-8s are vulnerable, the Ukrainians still have a bunch of anti-air systems running around with their radars off and hard to track, but the choppers can avoid detection from NATO radars if they fly low. There are however HMG, autocannon positions and so on I'd imagine, as well as a cupious amount of MANPADs. There's also the problem of getting vehicles across. Just infantry without IFVs and tanks can be quickly assaulted and thrown into disarray.
Ideally helos flying a nap of the earth profile should have targeted enemy radars with anti radiation missiles. UAVs too would have been effective in targeting enemy radar and SAM sites. It is quite clear that Russia lacks both the expertise and the technology to target Ukrainian radars, SAMs and of course ATGM units. That's why the leadership went in for this obsolete method of sending in hundreds of tanks to support infantry.
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0nillie0- Posts : 239
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RTN wrote:
That Indian fella has a habit of making baseless anti West comments which he himself has never been able to prove. U.S, U.K went to Iraq to commit genocide is one of those idiotic third world comment.
A-10s, Apache's and Predator drones were sent to all major Iraqi cities before any of our tanks rolled in. We were able to effectively target Iraqi snipers, ATGM and V-SHORAD groups.
Although I don't expect Su-25 to have the same kind of hit tech situational awareness systems that A-10s and other US fighter have.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110605020114/http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/2003/03/25/2003-03-25_iraqis_bash_choppers__one_u_.html
You are on ignore list, i can not tolerate anymore of your nonsense.
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teh_beard- Posts : 83
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The only hanging video I saw is one of DNR militiaman and his pregnant wife, in a woods, with ropes tied to a towhook of a car, saluting selfies on background of raised up bodies and distinct ukrospeak.Regular wrote:No doubt torture exits on both sides, but only one side has monopoly there.
Not sure if hanging is genuine, last time it was fake psyops, but there are videos of Russian army servicemen with their legs shot and beaten and with bags on their heads. They will all die from their wounds due to blood loss and torture.
Ukrainian soldiers usually are treated very decently, at worse they can get beaten up by DNR/LNR guys or outright shot, but not meticulously tortured.
No side is perfect in this long conflict - I read about both sides torturing their own too, on false suspitions of working for the enemy...
But in the moment there is no doubt which side is a moral one.
Kek, even our Chechen ghurkas do not brutalize no Ukrs. They just kill them all dead taking no prisoners.
Vids like mentioned will just make the practice commonplace.
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teh_beard wrote:
Vids like mentioned will just make the practice commonplace.
True and it will sway Russian side not to surrender. Torture doesn't win wars and it so called demoralisation comes from good treatment, not harsh. But it's good that they are capturing it on the video, it will be easier to persecute them
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ALAMO- Posts : 7473
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All that is the standard behavior of the dying nazi regime. Brutality toward POW and their own civilians, that are not needed anymore.
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RTN wrote:
That Indian fella has a habit of making baseless anti West comments which he himself has never been able to prove. U.S, U.K went to Iraq to commit genocide is one of those idiotic third world comment.
Genocide is quite fitting to what the US and it's wardogs did in countries like Iraq. Indiscriminate bombing of the entire country decimating 5% of the population, using banned chemical weapons like white phosphorous and depleted Uranium which resulted in cancer rates ten fold of the usual rate and deformities of born children sky rocketed to unprecedented numbers. The word "genocide" is the wiping out or decimation of a population of a significant amount. Genocide exists also when taking some population's birth control into own hands like many christian missionaries, which have genocided tribes from in Africa.
RTN wrote:
A-10s, Apache's and Predator drones were sent to all major Iraqi cities before any of our tanks rolled in. We were able to effectively target Iraqi snipers, ATGM and V-SHORAD groups.
Although I don't expect Su-25 to have the same kind of hit tech situational awareness systems that A-10s and other US fighter have.
There is little no difference in the capabilities of a A-10 and Su-25 especially for the wide spectrum of weaponry that ca n be used. There is also no "Situational Awareness System" installed on any A-10 upgrades as Vitebsk would offer if used.
RTN wrote:
Chinooks, Black Hawks were vulnerable too, to Iraqi SAMs. But sending in airborne units before MBTs roll in is far superior a strategy than sending in infantry by road along with tank columns.
Really? How did that strategy work out for you in Serbia? Ohh yeah...the US was completely impotent to implement any of their democratization tactics they used on two decade sanctioned nations with open field deserts and untrained personal.
RTN wrote:
Ideally helos flying a nap of the earth profile should have targeted enemy radars with anti radiation missiles. UAVs too would have been effective in targeting enemy radar and SAM sites. It is quite clear that Russia lacks both the expertise and the technology to target Ukrainian radars, SAMs and of course ATGM units. That's why the leadership went in for this obsolete method of sending in hundreds of tanks to support infantry.
That is why basically Russia flies sorties every day because it lacks the capabilities to destroy Ukrainian SAMs and Radars?
I don't know what sources you follow but since all credible sources have been banned in the West I can see you are consuming the War propaganda kool-aid.
Russia established air superiority, is flying sorties constantly, is kalibrating the Orcs position every day. There is little to nothing the Ukrainians are doing right now but getting pounded.
So tell me where exactly are these Ukrainian Radars and SAMS Russia can't target with AshMs and UAVs? If that would be the case we would see some footage of downed Russian jets instead we get more Arma3 and DCS videos than anything else.
Last edited by Werewolf on Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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flamming_python- Posts : 9519
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- Post n°441
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #8
flamming_python Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:24 pm
RTN wrote:That Indian fella has a habit of making baseless anti West comments which he himself has never been able to prove. U.S, U.K went to Iraq to commit genocide is one of those idiotic third world comment.flamming_python wrote: Su-25s can only hit what they can see
The enemy is adapt at camouflaging and hiding their positions
A-10s, Apache's and Predator drones were sent to all major Iraqi cities before any of our tanks rolled in. We were able to effectively target Iraqi snipers, ATGM and V-SHORAD groups.
Although I don't expect Su-25 to have the same kind of hit tech situational awareness systems that A-10s and other US fighter have.
By situational awareness you mean erasing every sign of movement kilometres ahead of the advance of the armored columns
And there could be civilian casualties from that, there could not be, no-one was counting.
Chinooks, Black Hawks were vulnerable too, to Iraqi SAMs. But sending in airborne units before MBTs roll in is far superior a strategy than sending in infantry by road along with tank columns.
Russia did send in airborne units before the MBTs rolled in too, and fairly successfully - all attempts at Ukrainian counterattacks failed. Granted a couple VDV reconnaisance platoons were artillery ambushed when they attempted to advance out
Ideally helos flying a nap of the earth profile should have targeted enemy radars with anti radiation missiles. UAVs too would have been effective in targeting enemy radar and SAM sites. It is quite clear that Russia lacks both the expertise and the technology to target Ukrainian radars, SAMs and of course ATGM units. That's why the leadership went in for this obsolete method of sending in hundreds of tanks to support infantry.
Most Ukrainian S-300s were taken out right in the first few hours I guess by Iskander strikes. Su-34s were filmed launching anti-radar missiles. Every radar which was switched on was targetted and Ukrainian S-300s hadn't had any kills that I know of, they had a few hidden ones that were also taken out over the next few weeks
A different matter are mobile SAM vehicles such as Strelas, Buks, Tunguskas, etc... it's hard to find them, but many were hunted down by helicopters which fly low, but they're smart enough not to switch on their radars and make themselves targets until NATO datalinks linked to NATO radars tell them that there are planes entering their vicinity. Several Russian planes were lost that way until Russia started to use its airforce more conservatively. A Su-35 pilot also reported very heavy EW measures, which means that NATO is deploying all sorts of jamming and other means from Poland, Romania, etc... too
There is no way to see ATGM units until they fire. But ATGMs have not been a big problem in this conflict.
And what exactly is obsolete about sending in tanks to support infantry? Tanks are always paired with infantry, they need each other to advance. This isn't Operation Desert Storm, where you can advance a fleet of tanks over the open desert to meet another fleet of tanks - here the terrain is such that you can only advance fast by the roads, and advance over all-terrain only when in grinding combat.
The Russian advance was too quick over the first few days and this led to ambushes from artillery.
They had orders to avoid any harm to civilians at all cost in the first 3 days and basically rode in as a marching column, not in combat formation - and this also led to losses.
Many vehicles broke down, were abandoned by the column, and were found by some Ukrainian territorial defense units before they could be retrieved - this is a failure of the logistics and engineering organization which are meant to send BREM vehicles to retrieve anything immobilized.
Logistics convoys were sometimes ambushed and inadequately protected
There were cases when armored vehicles traveled in columns that were too tight and compact without due spacing; this is alright on the march but not in a combat zone
The role of tactical UAVs seem to have been ignored
All these things were discussed already. And in all cases measures were taken. The advance slowed down and helicopters, friendly artillery were relied upon to destroy ambush positions and ensure a safer, more methodical advance. Orders were changed to protect own lives first. Logistics convoys get helicopter escorts and checkpoints on the roads were set up. Armored columns seem to be more spaced out now.
And these changes were done in very little time, the adaptability is impressive.
In short you are a victim of insane pro-Western propaganda. NATO did not even enter Yugoslavia on the ground so there is nothing to discuss, and Iraq with its wide open deserts, obsolete army and with no benefit of any NATO radars, EW, officers planning operations, weapons deliveries, etc... is hardly any comparison.
No helos with maps of earth profiles (which the Ka-52s and Mi-28Ns have along with terrain radars), no UAVs magically finding switched off mobile enemy radar and SAM sites (I'd remind you that NATO was highly ineffective in taking out any of the Yugoslav army or its air defenses from the air in 1999), and no restraint from using tanks to support infantry - would have helped.
The US Army has a lot less training for such conditions and advances I should note, since the 1980s. They are only now relearning.
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magnumcromagnon wrote:
That's exactly why Russia won't and can't lose this war because if they fail it consequences will be massive. Russia took the initiative and attacked first. NATO USA Ukraine were planning on taking over the Donbass. Then installing NATO into Ukraine to which there on bio labs releasing deadly and specific bio weapons into Russian population. Now USA and NATO know they won't win this but want to drag it on asking as possible to inflict economic damage and inflict Russian casualties and equipment. Hoping once it's over Russian munitions will be depleted or very low and with no economy to produce more, as well as impact finances on its mission in Syria and building of bases in Sudan. However thee main goal was to get the world to hate Russia and sanction it, demonize Russia to the point nobody wants it's business.
However I think USA and UK miscalculated how important Russian economy is to the world. Not just gas, oil, wheat, sunflower oil, metals, defence etc etc but also trading routes. Russia being the largest country on earth along with its airspace, seas, how this impacts on trade. And we all saw the UN vote a large number of countries didn't vote/abstained or voted against. I suspect once it's over or at least almost over and done with EU countries will be stating "we need to build relations in order to sort this issue out" meaning we need your energy resources, wheat, sunflower oil,metals, etc etc.
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Erk- Posts : 933
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d_taddei2 wrote:
...
However I think USA and UK miscalculated how important Russian economy is to the world. Not just gas, oil, wheat, sunflower oil, metals, defence etc etc but also trading routes. Russia being the largest country on earth along with its airspace, seas, how this impacts on trade. And we all saw the UN vote a large number of countries didn't vote/abstained or voted against. I suspect once it's over or at least almost over and done with EU countries will be stating "we need to build relations in order to sort this issue out" meaning we need your energy resources, wheat, sunflower oil,metals, etc etc.
There are a lot of really smart people in the US government, we mostly see the bought politicians.
The trouble with trying to determine US motives, is that the are usually not the will of the government, but the will of the donors.
Hypothetically, this whole mess could be the scheme of some group that wants the US to do things which collapse their currency, then have a new currency take over. Remember how the IMF was suggesting this a year or so ago. So we think it's US incompetence, but it's really much bigger things in play.
I am not suggesting this is the case, I would not have a clue, I am just putting out an alternate scenario to prod people not to simply accept the obvious all the time.
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It means having a composite picture of the battlefield by leveraging real time data obtained from AWACS, J-STARS, space based assets and ground based assets.flamming_python wrote:By situational awareness you mean erasing every sign of movement kilometres ahead of the advance of the armored columns
Proves how potent NATO's EW capabilities are. SU -35s for the most part are operating from heights of 30,000 feet and above and yet NATO's EW capabilities are jamming the SU 35s vital electronic systems rendering it useless.flamming_python wrote:A Su-35 pilot also reported very heavy EW measures, which means that NATO is deploying all sorts of jamming and other means from Poland, Romania, etc... too
Just that they have destroyed dozens of Russian tanks.flamming_python wrote:But ATGMs have not been a big problem in this conflict.
Saddam Hussein had the largest arsenal of SA-2 and SA-3 outside the USSR. Tell me, how many attack helos did we loose when we invaded Iraq? The initial assault on Iraq was carried out effectively by Apache helos. The much hallowed F-117 came much later.flamming_python wrote:No helos with maps of earth profiles (which the Ka-52s and Mi-28Ns have along with terrain radars), no UAVs magically finding switched off mobile enemy radar and SAM sites (I'd remind you that NATO was highly ineffective in taking out any of the Yugoslav army or its air defenses from the air in 1999), and no restraint from using tanks to support infantry - would have helped.
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Karl Haushofer wrote:What if azeris attack armenia and Georgia attacks ossetia at the same time?
Georgia attacking south Ossetia would be suicide. They have zero airforce. Russia still has forces within Russia you know that right? They would just send in bombers, strike aircraft, it would be over quickly. As for Armenia well it ain't completely Defenceless and Azerbaijan knows any Russian troops killed would see retaliation. And I am sure Azerbaijan has seen what's been happening to Ukrainian key military structures. Kinzhal and kalibur would send a swift message and that would put an end to that. Also let's not forget Russia can easily dominate the Caspian sea.
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Yes it is what it means but it is not what was established in Iraq. FP was correct by stating that the majority of targets regardless if it was military or colleteral was wiped out before anything else moved in.RTN wrote:
It means having a composite picture of the battlefield by leveraging real time data obtained from AWACS, J-STARS, space based assets and ground based assets.
While such assets couldn't be used in a war against an equal enemy. We can judge this by the current conflict of a de-facto NATO country not fielding anything significant. I would bet that S-400 would break it's own world record if it had an AWAC as a target.
That report mentioned the usage of EW not it's effectiveness and shows direct involvement of NATO which is also an attack against Russia. I bet some Kalibration of these assets would send the correct message to PONOS countries.RTN wrote:
Proves how potent NATO's EW capabilities are. SU -35s for the most part are operating from heights of 30,000 feet and above and yet NATO's EW capabilities are jamming the SU 35s vital electronic systems rendering it useless.
And the Russians advanced still up to Kiev taking Orcs into pincers which was the main reason why they advanced so fast in such a short time which led to more losses. But you mention things like this to proof what? Russian tanks are vunerable to most modern ATGMs? I bet western Tanks with their sheer size, weight and records breaking down would have higher rate of failures and destruction.RTN wrote:
Just that they have destroyed dozens of Russian tanks.
RTN wrote:
Saddam Hussein had the largest arsenal of SA-2 and SA-3 outside the USSR. Tell me, how many attack helos did we loose when we invaded Iraq? The initial assault on Iraq was carried out effectively by Apache helos. The much hallowed F-117 came much later.
You are comparing a country that was kneeling after 20 years of sanctions, where even such medical basics as insulin were not present let alone a MIC to the Ukraine a NATO trained, equipped with quite modern SAMs,SHORADs and existing personal with 8 years of war experience.
You are comparing the incomparable. You lost Helos to a much weaker opponent like Serbia (6) and Iraq, but I would need to go through my 25GB of files to get the correct number.
Last edited by Werewolf on Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ATLASCUB wrote:Russia has a serious problem with the Azerbaijan leadership. Directly challenging a Russian peace keeping mission to send a message, and embarrass the Russian leadership, at a very opportunistic time. Can't have any two bit leader thinking they can get away with it otherwise other states get funny ideas, feel empowered, miscalculate and place Russia is a worse off position by forcing it to slap these leaders in the face. At the same time it's not ideal to slap the Azerbaijani leadership right now due to the obvious. It's not by random chance the Azerbaijani's are doing this now.
That's a problem, on top of conflict resolution problem, on top of Armenia's leadership problem as well.
WTF has this to do with the thread title???
It has no value as a post here but it would have if you had posted it in the correct thread.
So basically a waste of effort by you.
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d_taddei2 wrote:Isos wrote:d_taddei2 wrote:Autodestruct wrote:owais.usmani wrote:Isos wrote:Impressive. S-400 is firing 90° upwards.
How come it came so close to Sevastopol in the first place??? S-400 should have shot down the drone at least a 100 km away from the city.
Russian air defense is being very careful to make sure it is a valid target. Russia is being subjected to complete demonization. The last thing they need is to shoot down some business jet or something like that which is off course and not answering comms.
Ukrainian airspace is closed. Anything flying into the airspace can be considered a target, and no civilian aircraft would be stupid enough to fly into it, and if it did then there can't be any comeback they were warned. I would also imagine neighboring countries with have a small airspace buffer zone right now something like 10-20km from Ukrainian borders
Actually there are plenty of stupid pilots and companies. The Malaisian plane that was downed was flying in the middle of Donbas when downed eventhough use of air defence in the area was common at the time.
Also the jamming in the area could lead them to fly in Ukraine. They rely a lot on GPS. It's a matter of few minutes and civiliab plabes are static targets for S-300/400 or buks that have missiles flying at mach 4 or more.
The Malaysian flight was completely different. The Ukrainian government was slated for not closing the airspace over Donbass. This was even stated in the Dutch report. So now it's closed therefore aircraft would not fly over or plan a route over Ukraine and therefore avoid any jamming. Pilots ain't stupid or suicidal.
Pilots and the company were stupid. It's not because the airspace is open that you have to go through when you know air defence systems were used in this area to destroy transport planes which shows on the radar like civilian planes. The confusion can be easily made and it was.
Clearly their fault. They are the ones to blame. There was a war with a total mess and system being used by both parties. So you just don't fly there.
Families of the victim need to sue them.
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flamming_python- Posts : 9519
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- Post n°449
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #8
flamming_python Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:35 pm
RTN wrote:It means having a composite picture of the battlefield by leveraging real time data obtained from AWACS, J-STARS, space based assets and ground based assets.
What makes you think Russia hasn't integrated its AWACS, electronic counter-intelligence, satellites, recon aircraft, and live ground data?
There are plenty of reports on such unified battlespaces, integration systems, datalinks and Russian systems for doing such - if you look through the forum. It's all here.
And you can hardly judge on its employment by twitter and telegram and Ukrainian media - you are postulating about things you have no information on.
Nevertheless if you think that this would in either NATO's or Russia's case translate to a real-time birds-eye view of the battlefield like in Command and Conquer Generals with the fog of war cancelled, then you are delusional.
The Ukrainians are not standing still and parading their gear in the open. The area to cover is also huge, and the vehicles tend to be well camouflaged, hidden when needed, or only move around at night, etc. Latest vids show Ukrainian soldiers moving around in civilian vehicles, knowing that Russia won't strike them.
Most of the remaining Ukrainian vehicles are now in cities, and this poses a problem too, if one wants to avoid civilian casualties. If you've been paying attention to this thread you'ld know that Russia took out a shopping centre in Kiev a week ago where their MLRS vehicles were being hidden and with the shopping centre used as a huge ammo dump. Where did Russia get this info from? HUMINT? Likely. Also possibly from triangulation or satellite data, as the Ukrainian Grads were shooting from the parking lot next to the shopping centre.
Many Ukrainian vehicles were also among civilian traffic, and some still are. How would NATO deal with this problem? Bomb the whole road and then cover it up with their propaganda dominance? Like the road of death in Iraq?
Well at least in one case, Russia dealt with it as such
https://twitter.com/spriter99880/status/1497377959333834758
3 destroyed military vehicles, that was it.
Proves how potent NATO's EW capabilities are. SU -35s for the most part are operating from heights of 30,000 feet and above and yet NATO's EW capabilities are jamming the SU 35s vital electronic systems rendering it useless.
That same Su-35 pilot reported shooting down two Ukrainian Su-27s in that environment, so it couldn't have been rendered useless
And no-one's denying their potency. Any NATO airforce in the Ukraine would encounter the same problem. US pilots carrying out operations near Syria reported the same thing about Russian EW means
Just that they have destroyed dozens of Russian tanks.
Ukrainian ATGMs have not destroyed dozens of tanks. That's just propaganda from that Sun piece about Tatyana Chernovol, who's a Ukrainian politician but suddenly becomes this superhero ATGM operator that stopped a Russian tank column.
That's what America does - create Hollywood superheroes.
Dozens of Russian tanks have been destroyed but from a combination of things - enemy tanks, precise artillery and modern ATGMs in ambush positions, and Russian engineering vehicles were nowhere to be seen for the first week of the conflict which led to abandoned tanks being torched or captured.
But given that the Russian MoD is reporting over 1400 Ukrainian tanks destroyed; even if this is likely an overestimate, it's still a completely lopsided figure
You're falling into survivor bias. The Ukrainians don't film their own destroyed tanks and the Russians aren't filming destroyed Ukrainian equipment much either. Much of their tanks have been taken out in territory that's under their control.
You can't judge the way is going by media, videos and infowar.
Saddam Hussein had the largest arsenal of SA-2 and SA-3 outside the USSR. Tell me, how many attack helos did we loose when we invaded Iraq? The initial assault on Iraq was carried out effectively by Apache helos. The much hallowed F-117 came much later.
Apache helos fly very low, SA-2s and SA-3s are no threat to them.
Same with Russian helos. How many attack helos did Russia lose? It lost 2 Ka-52s, at least one of which managed an emergency landing and were retrieved, and about 2-3 Mi-24s - where the pilots survived in one or two cases too albeit were captured. And only in the first week. Russian helos have been incredibly active since then, but no more have been shot down as far as I can see.
The Ukrainians have the full gamut of late Soviet era systems and integrated with NATO infrastructure, far more sophisticated than anything Saddam Hussein had. Nevertheless fly low enough, and they won't be able to engage either. They're a bigger problem for Russian Su-34s and so on.
Last edited by flamming_python on Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:19 pm; edited 6 times in total
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JohninMK wrote:ATLASCUB wrote:Russia has a serious problem with the Azerbaijan leadership. Directly challenging a Russian peace keeping mission to send a message, and embarrass the Russian leadership, at a very opportunistic time. Can't have any two bit leader thinking they can get away with it otherwise other states get funny ideas, feel empowered, miscalculate and place Russia is a worse off position by forcing it to slap these leaders in the face. At the same time it's not ideal to slap the Azerbaijani leadership right now due to the obvious. It's not by random chance the Azerbaijani's are doing this now.
That's a problem, on top of conflict resolution problem, on top of Armenia's leadership problem as well.
WTF has this to do with the thread title???
It has no value as a post here but it would have if you had posted it in the correct thread.
So basically a waste of effort by you.
Actually it could be related. Azeri are controled by Turkey which is an ally of Ukraine and not a good friend of Russia.
Opening a new front and try to take Armenia would be in their interest while Russia is busy with Ukraine.
We could see a new conflict there that would involve Russia.
Which would be good. Russia could take Azerbaijan or bomb their gas industry destroying even more the gas industry and obliging europeans and others to buy russian gas.
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