Russian special military operation in Ukraine #8

Big_Gazza wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Anyway I hope somehow the war ends. Talking about geopolitics and Nazis is one thing, but the whole operation is a massive fk-up, that has led to a meatgrinder.

Sure... and if you had your way you've have kept talking until the Ukr orcs launched massive blitzkrieg against the DPR/LPR and crushed the Donbass against the Russian border...

Mordor wasn't giving any Russia any choice.  

flamming_python wrote:

Regular wrote:

flamming_python wrote:The flag of the DNR and Russia was raised on an administration building in Mariupol, the hymn was switched on, and a local crowd gathered to celebrate and voice their opinions about Zelensky.
Touching..

Thanks for sharing.

If I was in their place I would hate both Ukraine and Russia for turning my hometown into warzone, I wouldn't even think about geopolitics, would hate the whole ordeal.  

To win hearts and minds Russia needs to open its pocket and start rebuilding Mariupol ASAP and make it better than what it was before the war. I can only hope it is possible with such destruction and economic situation.

Hence why the operation failed before it even started

What was Russia's plan for dealing with the Azov Nazis in Mariupol? Open humanitarian corridors, like they're some Islamist rebels in Aleppo, in the hopes that they will put on civilian clothing and file out?

These are highly motivated, experienced war criminals, who are part of the armed forces of an internationally recognized government, with full Western backing. And they've always been confident that the West will find a way to extract them, after they caused Mariupol to be completely destroyed - which is now what Macron is aiming to do.

Now Mariupol is scorched Earth, over a thousand dead civilians most likely, judging by the corpses reportedly hanging out in each residential courtyard, and I doubt most will really be thankful to Russia for such 'liberation'.
They may have hated these Azov fucks, but they didn't want their homes destroyed, livelyhoods ruined, relatives killed. They would have liked Russia to be smarter. If I was in their position anyway, I don't know how they really think. All we have here is a few old people on this vid.

The Ukraine and its Western backers have completely outplayed Russia here, and in the war in general. Russia which has completely underestimated everything and everyone. I've already talked about this

And what now? Turn Kharkov into another warzone, Nikolayev, Odessa?

flamming_python wrote:

Firebird wrote:Maybe the summary from RT is of poor quality.
But this seems really weird.
The Donbass cauldron was set to be obliterated next week.
Mariupol this week.
Then Russia was free to advance across the whole East.

How can you deal with vermin like Nazis?
It was done several times before. They rearmed, got far stronger and far more dangerous.
The concept was that it needs deNazification, deAmericanisation, de-Ukrainian Fascist "nationalism".

RT was pretty scary reading if u ask me.
All those lives just for the Donbass, which could have been taken in 10 minutes a few years ago.
Infact all of Bandera-stan wouldn't have taken long.

What happens with the Nazis? Back to power? Russian language, media, human rights for HALF the population or more? None of this is mentioned!

Putin played "Gandhi" from 2014 to 2022. What happened? It all got far far worse.
Why should a single Ru troop leave?

I told all you guys already, it's clear the operation was a failure and the strategy has already been modified several times already. First time after the first 3 days, when the Russian military was allowed to engage properly. Then again after a few more days, when the advance was slowed down. And now again, by shifting troops to the Donbass.

-The most optimistic variant was to pressure Kiev into agreeing to Russian terms by simply invading with troops and taking an approach of increasing demands, creating pressure. This failed, the Kiev regime and its Western backers switched to total war mode and immediate negotiations went nowhere. The fundamental miscalculation was that the Ukraine was a solitary actor to force into concessions - when in fact it's just an extension of the West and has its full backing.
-The next most optimistic variant was to try and shake apart the Ukrainian elite, separate the military from the regime and so on - as Putin suggested to them. This also failed and due to similar reasons. The Ukrainian elite was sure they would win and total war propaganda was too strong.
-The next one after that was to capture some territory and shake apart Kiev that way. Agreements were made with elites in Kharkov, Kherson, Chernigov at a minimum, and it was also expected that other regions would join in. With the exception of Kherson, and Melitopol and Energodar in Zaporozhie - this all failed too. Probably the nationalist extremists and garrisons in all these places spooked the elites away, as well as the popular reaction in the Ukraine to the operation, and Biden's declaration of maximum sanctions on Russia with the expectation that Putin will be overthrown.

These are all political failures

There were also the ideological failures, of Putin threatening to take apart the Ukrainian state, and the next day saying that all he's there to do is denazificaiton and demilitarization, and that he doesn't plan to occupy the Ukraine.
This ambiguity about Russian objectives and desires has been there since 2014, when Russia directly annexed the Crimea, and in the DNR/LNR constant declarations about joining Russia.
These sorts of things are not compatible with just regime change, or reformatting the Ukrainian state, and in fact only serves to fuel Ukrainian nationalism

The economic failures were not critical, just the confiscated reserves. Which are huge, but arguably the collective West has caused itself far more damage in the months and years to come.
Geopolitically likewise, Russia won this, and the West has come together in its battle against Russia, but at the same time has become isolated from the rest of the world.

Underestimation of Ukrainian military resistance and propaganda about Russian military losses was the next failure, this rallied the population there around the flag, and gave a big morale boost to Ukrainian forces. Their own losses were hidden from them and Russia could do nothing about it, it had little power in the information war.
The Russian advance genuinely suffered considerable losses, and had to be slowed down to preserve manpower, shifting to gradual advances and positional battles over key points, taking out artillery and tanks from the air and with its own artillery, as well as rocketing Ukrainian military infrastructure from stand-off range. This been pretty successful from the standpoint of destroying the operational capabilities and equipment of the Ukrainian army and causing it huge losses in manpower. However, without taking more territory, mobilization of Ukrainian reserves continues, even if there is little to arm them with - and the morale of the Ukrainian army is not broken, nor has the Ukrainian state lost control over most of its population

So what remains? Just to kill more Ukrainian military and attempt to break them, and the civilian population? Further provoke a mass humanitarian crisis as the country has no fuel left; meaning no sowing season, no deliveries of essential goods, a paralyzed economy?

flamming_python wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:
Podolyaka has been acting like he's the grey cardinal of the Kremlin and directing the pace of events himself. "The Russian leadership needs to listen to me!"

Fact is he's a smart guy but ultimately just another info-war tool. He can't vouch for shit.

But I agree that we probably won't see a ceasefire, if for no other reason other than that administrations in Kherson and part of Zaporozhie have already been created

You are not a man with good intentions because a man who calls Putin a "murderer" cannot be a well-meaning man.
It doesn't help that sometimes you write something reasonable because in a short time you will show your true face AGAIN ! Man, I'm a Serb and we Serbs can easily see the hypocrite.

d_taddei2 wrote:

kvs wrote:We have NATzO propaganda being spammed into this thread as if it has any relation to reality.   The propaganda
narrative change from NATzO lie factory outlets in the last few days is that losing Russia changed focus on the
secondary LDNR front.   Now it is surrendering in negotiations with the Kiev regime.    This is retarded nonsense
and pollution on this forum.  

I myself can only speculate, as we don't know the terms of any agreement, and agreements can fail before going into play. Neo Nazis groups may not agree with Ukrainian government and continue its genocidal acts thus breaking any agreement. I highly doubt Russia will reduce land it has already taken, at most solidify it's positions without advancing. But still be taking out any drones, aircraft, Tochka, AD systems, ammo dumps etc.

flamming_python wrote:

Regular wrote:

flamming_python wrote:The flag of the DNR and Russia was raised on an administration building in Mariupol, the hymn was switched on, and a local crowd gathered to celebrate and voice their opinions about Zelensky.
Touching..

Thanks for sharing.

If I was in their place I would hate both Ukraine and Russia for turning my hometown into warzone, I wouldn't even think about geopolitics, would hate the whole ordeal.  

To win hearts and minds Russia needs to open its pocket and start rebuilding Mariupol ASAP and make it better than what it was before the war. I can only hope it is possible with such destruction and economic situation.

Hence why the operation failed before it even started

What was Russia's plan for dealing with the Azov Nazis in Mariupol? Open humanitarian corridors, like they're some Islamist rebels in Aleppo, in the hopes that they will put on civilian clothing and file out?

These are highly motivated, experienced war criminals, who are part of the armed forces of an internationally recognized government, with full Western backing. And they've always been confident that the West will find a way to extract them, after they caused Mariupol to be completely destroyed - which is now what Macron is aiming to do.

Now Mariupol is scorched Earth, over a thousand dead civilians most likely, judging by the corpses reportedly hanging out in each residential courtyard, and I doubt most will really be thankful to Russia for such 'liberation'.
They may have hated these Azov fucks, but they didn't want their homes destroyed, livelyhoods ruined, relatives killed. They would have liked Russia to be smarter. If I was in their position anyway, I don't know how they really think. All we have here is a few old people on this vid.

The Ukraine and its Western backers have completely outplayed Russia here, and in the war in general. Russia which has completely underestimated everything and everyone. I've already talked about this

And what now? Turn Kharkov into another warzone, Nikolayev, Odessa?

flamming_python wrote:

par far wrote:
In Mariupol, the humanitarian corridors were meant for the civilians and regular Ukrainian troops, not for Azov Nazis and other war criminals. When the Azov Nazis tried to leave they were caught(every male leaving were check for Nazi tattoos.

The Azov Nazis are not leaving Mariupol alive, Moron can try all he wants. There was the Mi-8 that was shot down, that tried to carry the Azov Nazis out.

The most hardened and best Azov Nazis fighters were in Mariupol, that is why it got cleared out.

As for Mariupol, the Russians have already said they will rebuild Mariupol.

The west has not outsmarted Russia(only idiots and western sheeple believe that), the Russians are not giving back the areas they have taken, in Kherson region, the Ruble is the currency they are using, I think this will happen in other regions that Russia has taken as well.

Humanitarian corridors were for everyone, just as they were in Aleppo

The checks for Nazi tattoos were only started later when the humanitarian corridors were turned down and the battle began

The whole point of such corridors is to allow enemy troops to leave.

d_taddei2 wrote:
USA and Ukraine already got caught with 30 bio labs dine secret there will be no sure way if them not doing it again. They will be just more secretive this time round.

And what happens if once neutral status comes into play and russian troops leave, and NATO troops roll in against the agreement what then? The west can't be trusted and neither can zelensky. If zelensky and NATO breech the agreement which they most likely will. What then ? Russia slap sanctions on NATO?  Or do we go straight to WW3 nuclear holocaust?

In my opinion Russia didn't come all this way, lose troops, Donbass lose troops and civilians, loss of equipment, biggest sanction package ever, so settle on the Donbass and an agreement that can't be enforced if broken.

It's clear Ukraine is suffering and it's forces have lost masses of key equipment, with NATO unable to supply anything but small arms, stingers, anti tank weapons, cash and aid. Russia has them on the back foot hence they are now ready to start agreements now. I would say start phase 2 of the campaign. I can't imagine Putin's  image will be great if he settles on Donbass while families back home grieve over a lost son(soldier). There must be more to this deal than we know and ways to enforce it surely. If not I feel many pro Russian will be disappointed. If Russia encircled the Donbass and either mass withdrawal of Ukrainian forces or many killed and captured, this would put Russia in a far better position to put forward it's demands. This isn't a ceasefire, but sign that Russia is willing to ease it alittle in order to facilitate some agreement.

Just my 10 pence worth

Podlodka77 wrote:You are not a man with good intentions because a man who calls Putin a "murderer" cannot be a well-meaning man.
It doesn't help that sometimes you write something reasonable because in a short time you will show your true face AGAIN ! Man, I'm a Serb and we Serbs can easily see the hypocrite.

• The 6th columnists.  Ruslan Ostashko calls them the “emo-Marxists”, which is a good expression which I shall adopt.  These are also called “hurray patriots” or “turbo patriots”.  They blame Putin for being weak, sold out to the West, corrupt and dishonest.  They also oppose Putin’s ideology (patriotism instead of nationalism, and economic liberalism) and for decades now they are the ones who say 1) Putin has sold out or 2) Putin is about to sell out 3) all is lost.  For them a “Putin victory” in the Ukraine would be way WORSE than the total defeat of Russia by the West.  Thus they wrap themselves in the flag of patriotism, but in reality they are what Russians call “defeatists” (пораженцы).
  

Airbornewolf wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:
USA and Ukraine already got caught with 30 bio labs dine secret there will be no sure way if them not doing it again. They will be just more secretive this time round.

And what happens if once neutral status comes into play and russian troops leave, and NATO troops roll in against the agreement what then? The west can't be trusted and neither can zelensky. If zelensky and NATO breech the agreement which they most likely will. What then ? Russia slap sanctions on NATO?  Or do we go straight to WW3 nuclear holocaust?

In my opinion Russia didn't come all this way, lose troops, Donbass lose troops and civilians, loss of equipment, biggest sanction package ever, so settle on the Donbass and an agreement that can't be enforced if broken.

It's clear Ukraine is suffering and it's forces have lost masses of key equipment, with NATO unable to supply anything but small arms, stingers, anti tank weapons, cash and aid. Russia has them on the back foot hence they are now ready to start agreements now. I would say start phase 2 of the campaign. I can't imagine Putin's  image will be great if he settles on Donbass while families back home grieve over a lost son(soldier). There must be more to this deal than we know and ways to enforce it surely. If not I feel many pro Russian will be disappointed. If Russia encircled the Donbass and either mass withdrawal of Ukrainian forces or many killed and captured, this would put Russia in a far better position to put forward it's demands. This isn't a ceasefire, but sign that Russia is willing to ease it alittle in order to facilitate some agreement.

Just my 10 pence worth

Agreed.

First off, i dont have an glass orb to predict the future with. but here is my take.

This is far from over, And too much has happened over the last 8 years.
Putin and Shoigu know if they do not burn down this NATO supported nest of nazi's to the last and keep it down.
It all would have been for nothing. And its a matter of time that Russia gets directly targeted with NBC weaponry with Ukraine as Proxy.
Everybody forgot the British Minister of Defense had no trouble handing them Nukes?.

Like you said, Russia started knowing full well wat would happen.
The stakes are too high to quit. There are plenty more resources Russia can draw on.
One of the largest oil producer and weapons manufacturer in the world can not sustain an war for more than a month?.

Someone seen depressed LPR/DPR, Russian or Chechen troops?. I sure did not.
with all the torture shit coming out, they are looking to settle the score.
They do not stitch the St.george ribbons on their uniforms for fun.

They are there to exterminate the nazi's, to do their grandfather's job over.
Go back home?. no one can be seriously thinking the army is done with this.
This is one of those things you sign up for.

Not to mention the Ukrainian civilian population.
You seen the rage and sorrow of the people that suffered on the hands of the nazi scum?.
They are not going back to how it was. Under Kiev control.

Let Politicians talk, let the Kremlin do press conferences...
Say the peace progress is progressing..

Nobody is under the illusion here, that Russia is not aware that the Nazi's will never keep their word?.
Russians are Roaches to them, to be castrated and exterminated.
Kiev's words and their negotiations are meaningless.

The reality on the battlefield is all that matters.

Stealthflanker wrote:hmmm.

https://twitter.com/Russ_Warrior/status/1508832161205526535

--------
Anyway will Russia abandon Kiev offensive tho ?

Dima wrote:Hope the special military operation to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine continue unabated, even though the ops has been paused in the Kiev region.

This is going to be long haul, so as this operation continue, concentrate on overcoming shortcomings.

Emergency acquisition of large enough quantity combat drones from China, so that every military/nazi stuff thats found in Ukraine can be hammered.

Emergency acquisition of ships. As long as you don't have surface combatants to pile up pressure on the borders of the opponents and to "influence" affairs on their land, Russia will find all its enemies operating in its front and backyard, due to their own home being safe from any conventional Russian reach.

Hannibal Barca wrote:I wonder how difficult is to topple Zhelenski from inside or just raid on him. Putin seems not able to do with 10000 missiles what Nuland did with a handful of breads.

Not the right time to say this, but I would have felt more confident with someone like Medvedev or Kadyrov.