Russian special military operation in Ukraine #11

I want to see what really happened at Chernobaevka aka Kherson airport area. Satellite picture from few days ago showed pretty heavy concentration of vehicles and ammunition there. If Ukrainians managed to hit it with Tochka, again, i would personally put whoever is in charge of those units in prison.

sepheronx wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:There is only one fast solution in terms of large surface ships for Russia and that is to forget about pride and to order Chinese Type 052D destroyers.

The Chinese Destroyer isn't bad but the Gorshkov is actually armed better with better systems.  I know this is debatable but I just am not keen on Chinese mil equipment for some reasons I wont get into.  But regardless, they are not bad its just that Russian may be better at various sub systems.

But, I would say it could be in Russia's interest to work with China in localizing production of the Type 052D in Russia at a specific or two shipyards using Russian electronics/radar/comms, missiles and ad weapons.  This could give a good boost to both parties.  Russia isnt known for selling their ships overseas anyways (their subs are top sellers) so its not like it will be some kind of problem for Russia to do that.

Do you see any progress in building these frigates of Project 22350? I do not think that the frigates of the 23350 project are bad, on the contrary,but it is necessary to speed up the equipping of the Russian Navy in the next few years. As far as we can see, this is not going well and the frigate Admiral Golovko has not yet gone to sea trials. Admiral Isakov was not launched, etc. Yes, I think it is possible to install the Russian UKSK. In the Chinese version, there are two vertical launchers with 32 rockets each, or 64 in total. It might be different with the Russian UKSK, but it is not impossible to install UKSK on a ship with a full displacement of about 7,500 tons.


However, the Third World War will start sooner, because the West obviously wants to disappear together with Russia.

d_taddei2 wrote:It's natural to get sad or angry at such news regardless what was the cause, but this will be over shadowed when 60k Ukrainian forces are Destroyed, captured or flee. And when the war is won you will quietly forget about this tragedy.

As someone already mentioned I find it strange that only now are Ukraine stating it's used Neptune yet it had other opportunities to use on Russian vessels and didn't I feel they used the accident to suddenly support the idea they used Neptune.

If however Neptune was used then it wasn't done without NATO help and Intelligence. And if so then I am sure Russia will be helping some Islamic terrorist target a NATO vessel in return.

If the vessel is lost, then as I previously stated Russia could if It wanted take Ukraines Slava class the ukraina haul back to Russia overhaul and put back into service. Russia in the pasted wanted the vessel to do such now they get it for free.

This won't effect Donbass cauldron and the battle there will commence.

Ukrainian Slava is in really bad shape. I don't think it can be used for anything.

Amazing thing is that MoD didn't say anything about Moskva in morning briefing.

So the Moskva was seriously damaged, maybe sunk. Big deal, so the cruiser Baleares was torpedoed in 1938 and it didn't change the outcome of the Spanish Civil War.

I am glad this time most of the crew was saved.

Possible causes: 1) accident when firing a cruise missile 2) the Ukrainians got a new missile from NATO and somehow managed to hit the ship 3) freak hit by a floating mine

Doubt the ship was left adrift without a skeleton crew to fight the fire, unless the ship was totally ablaze and the risk of an ammo explosion was so great as to abandon ship. There should be attempts to salvage it, unless it is realized there's no point in it as it's a 40 year old ship.

Moskva was a very old ship and it was going to be scrapped anyway. It's only value in case of war with the US was in flinging a volley of cruise and antiship missiles before being sunk.

Not a big deal, other than the loss of life among the crew.

Well so far Ukraine each time was able to rise to the challenge and increase the stakes.
Ladies and gentlemen if this is not clear sign that things are not going well there I do not know what that should be.

In my eyes Putin made huge strategical mistake from which there is no easy way out right now... US intelligence agencies already are counting that Russian overall military power decreased 15-20% because of losses in Ukraine.

Armed and battle hardened Ukraine with strong leader that unites their nation is not good prospect at all for Russian interests - but things are going exactly into that direction from day one. I do not see Russia stronger after this conflict, in contrary.

Mikhail Onufrienko says that the cruiser Moscow was "destroyed" and that "it no longer exists as a combat unit", but that the reason for the destruction is not Ukrainian anti-ship missiles. However, he does not state that the ship sank either. Also, Mikhail states that the reason for the explosion in Moscow is still unknown.

This whole ship mess brings me back to that USA/Germany/Japan thing I have been mentioning

In the current situation it's not enough for Russia to just achieve military victory anymore but they have to do it by inflicting maximum possible number of casualties on VSU because in light of all the nonsense that has been happening they risk inviting even bigger war immediately afterwards



When this ends number of Russian casualties has to look like rounding error compared to number of Ukrainian ones and here is why:

Immediately after WW2 when Germans looked at number of their own casualties compared to American ones they thought: ''We are lucky to be alive, never again!!!''

However when they looked at  number of their own casualties compared to Soviet ones they thought: ''F*ck, we were so close, we almost had them!!!''

Russia risks same thing again, even now Europeans are looking at this war and thinking: ''If Ukrainians are doing this good then we can definitely take out those dumb Russians, we don't even need Americans, we just need to kick down the door and the whole rotten edifice will go down!!!''

I am sure that you all have been noticing this line of thinking gaining massive popularity in Europe since this war started




Only solution now is to strangle this attitude in the crib and it can only be done by killing Ukrainian grunts in such a huge number that it will blow a crater in Ukrainian collective consciousness and that just looking at the number of casualties afterwards will send shivers down European spines for generations to come



Let's not forget that USSR won the Winter War but all they managed to accomplish was to send the message to Nazis that Operation Barbarossa will be a cakewalk and that it's time to invade USSR

Ukrainians getting away with their lives en masse in this war is sending the same message to Europe and is inviting Barbarossa 2.0 (stuff like this Moskva crap isn't helping either)



It's imperative for Russia to erase this line of thinking and they need to start by turning that Donbass cauldron into a charnel house and making sure that everyone knows the score

After that they need to keep repeating that same thing in every next sector until there's nothing in Ukraine left that can hold a gun, they can take as much time as they need but they can't afford to screw this up or to pussyfoot anymore

mr_hd wrote:Well so far Ukraine each time was able to rise to the challenge and increase the stakes.
Ladies and gentlemen if this is not clear sign that things are not going well there I do not know what that should be.

In my eyes Putin made huge strategical mistake from which there is no easy way out right now... US intelligence agencies already are counting that Russian overall military power decreased 15-20% because of losses in Ukraine.

Armed and battle hardened Ukraine with strong leader that unites their nation is not good prospect at all for Russian interests - but things are going exactly into that direction from day one. I do not see Russia stronger after this conflict, in contrary.

You should change your name to BBC or CNN

Podlodka77 wrote:Mikhail Onufrienko says that the cruiser Moscow was "destroyed" and that "it no longer exists as a combat unit", but that the reason for the destruction is not Ukrainian anti-ship missiles. However, he does not state that the ship sank either. Also, Mikhail states that the reason for the explosion in Moscow is still unknown.

I think there was a big storm at the time too.
Explosions, munitions misuse accidents happen - in storms, exercises, other peacetime events.
Hopefully all the crew evacuated.

Russia has many other options for the area - airborne missiles, other ships etc

Firebird wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:Mikhail Onufrienko says that the cruiser Moscow was "destroyed" and that "it no longer exists as a combat unit", but that the reason for the destruction is not Ukrainian anti-ship missiles. However, he does not state that the ship sank either. Also, Mikhail states that the reason for the explosion in Moscow is still unknown.

I think there was a big storm at the time too.
Explosions, munitions misuse accidents happen - in storms, exercises, other peacetime events.
Hopefully all the crew evacuated.

Russia has many other options for the area  - airborne missiles, other ships etc

If the crew was evacuated, does that mean that the ship is unsalvageable? Also, why are there no photos made by the Ukrainians big it's near Odessa? Something's fishy.

mr_hd wrote:US intelligence agencies already are counting that Russian overall military power decreased 15-20% because of losses in Ukraine.

I'm still waiting for videos and images that prove at least 10% of the losses, alleged by the Ukrainian/Western media...

A TB2 UCAV in the area was probably the source of targeting data for the anti-ship missiles, not there as a “distraction”.

If the Moskva only had one SAM guidance radar, so it was only able to track one target for engagement. If that is correct, the TB2 could have performed two roles. Provide targeting data for the missiles, as well as act as a decoy target.

The TASS announcement still states "the ministry said the cause of the fire is under investigation". And how can they investigate that if the ship is sunk? So maybe not. There is total chaos on the Russian forum balancer.ru and the Russians are very angry.
This ship will light a large fire, whether sunk or not. I wouldn’t be in the skin of the Banderistans.

In manpower terms Russia's combined armed forces must be around 1.2m .
So 10% would be 120k troops. Which is obviously a mental asylumist claim by them.

Even 10% of 100k troops is 10,000. Which would put the Banderastan losses at  well in xs of 40k to 100k.
Again... its clear the Americans are talking even more tripe than usual.

Regularly just 1 strike on the Bandera-trash has caused 100s of deaths. Given their machinery losses, manpower losses must also be very very large.

The BBC in England had videos of the Bandera troops. Azov looked like real but utterly evil soldiers.
The regular "Ukraine" troops (I wouldn't even call em Ukrainian) looked like some 19 yr old pothead student you might get to fix your computer. Basically the sort who goes round in tie-dye t shirts, plastic beads and all that shit.

Podlodka77 wrote:There is only one fast solution in terms of large surface ships for Russia and that is to forget about pride and to order Chinese Type 052D destroyers.

Pride went out the window long ago

Solution is to not have all your eggs in one half a century old basket


Syria showed that distributed lethality is superior approach

This war showed that it's better to have 4 frigates instead of 1 cruiser


If they had 4 Gorshkovs and one got sunk they would still have 3 Gorshkovs in play

RTN wrote:A TB2 UCAV in the area was probably the source of targeting data for the anti-ship missiles, not there as a “distraction”.

If the Moskva only had one SAM guidance radar, so it was only able to track one target for engagement. If that is correct, the TB2 could have performed two roles. Provide targeting data for the missiles, as well as act as a decoy target.

Look at him, AMERICUNT is here !
Don't worry, there is time for USS Nimitz ... Who laughs last, laughs sweetest ..

PapaDragon wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:There is only one fast solution in terms of large surface ships for Russia and that is to forget about pride and to order Chinese Type 052D destroyers.

Pride went out the window long ago

Solution is to not have all your eggs in one half a century old basket


Syria showed that distributed lethality is superior approach

This war showed that it's better to have 4 frigates instead of 1 cruiser


If they had 4 Gorshkovs and one got sunk they would still have 3 Gorshkovs in play

I know, countryman, everything is clear to me. It is only necessary to accelerate the construction of project 22350. Priority must be given to submarines of project 885M and project 677 should be accelerated. And yes, TASS announced today that submarines "Kronstadt" have passed the second round of factory trials.

Belisarius wrote:

mr_hd wrote:US intelligence agencies already are counting that Russian overall military power decreased 15-20% because of losses in Ukraine.

I'm still waiting for videos and images that prove at least 10% of the losses, alleged by the Ukrainian/Western media...

This gonna take a while as it seems the storm are still ongoing. Along with heavy cloud cover. Even Satellite may not necessarily got good image.

Podlodka77 wrote:The TASS announcement still states "the ministry said the cause of the fire is under investigation". And how can they investigate that if the ship is sunk? So maybe not. There is total chaos on the Russian forum balancer.ru and the Russians are very angry.
This ship will light a large fire, whether sunk or not. I wouldn’t be in the skin of the Banderistans.

Anger is an understatement

The Kremlin is on thin ice here , the shit has hit the fan

Belisarius wrote:

mr_hd wrote:US intelligence agencies already are counting that Russian overall military power decreased 15-20% because of losses in Ukraine.

I'm still waiting for videos and images that prove at least 10% of the losses, alleged by the Ukrainian/Western media...

Ukrainian numbers are for sure way over inflated.
But there are indicators that rate of loss of equipment is bigger than anything Russia faced so far after the second world war which is not good sign, if I remember well one Su-35, few Ka-52, one IL-76, different tanks, supply trucks... plus that ship in Berdyansk and now flag ship of Black fleet... rate of loss is huge and very expensive. And they are still weeks late to provide update about loss of people too. Not good signs at all but only time will tell what really is happening on the ground.

flamming_python wrote:
It's a catastrophe, as now Kiev got what it wanted, a way to prevent a rout in the Donbass

It will make things a lot harder and will cancel the effect of Mariupol falling entirely.

A severe let-down by the fleet of the men on the front-line

It is certainly a huge disaster and a major propaganda victory for the Ukrs - no matter what actually happened to the cruiser, but it in no way would prevent the coming rout in Donbass. Nor would it have any effect on the campaign as a whole.

mr_hd wrote:

Belisarius wrote:

mr_hd wrote:US intelligence agencies already are counting that Russian overall military power decreased 15-20% because of losses in Ukraine.

I'm still waiting for videos and images that prove at least 10% of the losses, alleged by the Ukrainian/Western media...

Ukrainian numbers are for sure way over inflated.
But there are indicators that rate of loss of equipment is bigger than anything Russia faced so far after the second world war which is not good sign, if I remember well one Su-35, few Ka-52, one IL-76, different tanks, supply trucks... plus that ship in Berdyansk and now flag ship of Black fleet... rate of loss is huge and very expensive. And they are still weeks late to provide update about loss of people too. Not good signs at all but only time will tell what really is happening on the ground.

I have already given an approximate formula for calculating daily combat losses, and so far the loss ratio is approximately 1 \100 of the intensity of losses in the Great Patriotic War. And about 50 times lower than in the Arab-Israeli wars.

mr_hd wrote:

Belisarius wrote:

mr_hd wrote:US intelligence agencies already are counting that Russian overall military power decreased 15-20% because of losses in Ukraine.

I'm still waiting for videos and images that prove at least 10% of the losses, alleged by the Ukrainian/Western media...

Ukrainian numbers are for sure way over inflated.
But there are indicators that rate of loss of equipment is bigger than anything Russia faced so far after the second world war which is not good sign, if I remember well one Su-35, few Ka-52, one IL-76, different tanks, supply trucks... plus that ship in Berdyansk and now flag ship of Black fleet... rate of loss is huge and very expensive. And they are still weeks late to provide update about loss of people too. Not good signs at all but only time will tell what really is happening on the ground.

I don't usually respond to trolls, but you are a special kind of stupid.
Rate of losses bigger than anything since WW2 for Russia, you literally just making shit up
You gotta be one of the dumbest commenters I have read in years on any platform.
You try to quote US intelligence , inaccurately so, who are  most famous for literally making shit up over the years and just running psyops.

Also claiming a loss of 20% of TOTAL Russian military power is something a 12 year old might come up with and even they aren’t that stupid to make that claim.

I also have not placed anyone on the ignore list yet no matter how silly their comments can be, but you have even surpassed that with your retardation so you got the honour of being the first one.

mr_hd wrote:

Belisarius wrote:

mr_hd wrote:US intelligence agencies already are counting that Russian overall military power decreased 15-20% because of losses in Ukraine.

I'm still waiting for videos and images that prove at least 10% of the losses, alleged by the Ukrainian/Western media...

Ukrainian numbers are for sure way over inflated.
But there are indicators that rate of loss of equipment is bigger than anything Russia faced so far after the second world war which is not good sign, if I remember well one Su-35, few Ka-52, one IL-76, different tanks, supply trucks... plus that ship in Berdyansk and now flag ship of Black fleet... rate of loss is huge and very expensive. And they are still weeks late to provide update about loss of people too. Not good signs at all but only time will tell what really is happening on the ground.

Russia losses
Those air numbers would be far less than the 888 war. Didn't the Il76 crash, not get shot at.

The 2 ships - sounds like accidental fires/loading accidents, the late being assisted by the storm.

Some tanks and trucks are inevitable but the ratio is vastly in Russia's favour.
This is a big theatre. To me it sounds like everything is going to Russia's plan. |Big chunks of Banderastan are already coming under Russia's protection. Even before the Donbass cauldron.

Edit: just read your comment re Hohol losses. Yep.. u are clearly trolling and trying to pretend black is white.