Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12

Sujoy wrote:

GarryB wrote:Bullshit... Moskva has 360 degree radar coverage, but the missiles for the Fort-M system have a minimum engagement range of about 7km and would not be used against sea skimming missiles... the OSA missiles on the other hand would be ideal for shooting down low flying subsonic missiles as would the 6 x AK-630 gatling turrets that are on the ship specifically to deal with subsonic sea skimming missiles.

Which is why they shouldn't have any problem sending it to 90km from Ukraines coast because on paper two subsonic sea skimming missiles would have no chance, even in a storm.

S-300F can search OR guide but only uses one of those radars at a time.  Using the targeting radar leaves you blind to half the sky.

AK- 630 has about 15 second window under ideal conditions.  Less in high seas.  Less if incoming missile is skimming.

S-300F has only one radar (above the hangar, which can be turned and has a coverage of around 270°)), it follows the targets (up to 6 or 12) and sends info to the missiles. The search part is done by the two specialized radars on top of the masts (360° coverage).

ArgentinaGuard wrote:It is incredible that they believe the stupidity of the Ukrainians who look for the faces of the Russians. It is propaganda.

What I can't believe is how Zielinsky's shitty Jew (who keeps making fun of himself in interviews) and the head of the Ukrainian army is still alive.
Those people should be detected and eliminated, smart missiles, commandos, whatever.
I refuse to believe in the incompetence of the Russian army. I just think that these shitty Ukrainians were prepared with the best by NATO.

Excuse me, but I am very angry.

Zelensky is still alive because he is needed to sign the capitulation agreement, which will propably give up large parts of "Ukraine" to eihter independence (sort of) or to become part of Russia again. Also the western border of left-over Ukraine could be guarded by Russian Border Guards, a few military bases in the country and so on. This would give the agreement a lot of legitimacy. That´s why the west will kill the clown in the not so distant future. They will declare some random Guido the new president, keep him in Washington/Brussels/Warsaw and "continue the fight against the evil russian invaders".

Some comments :

( 1 ) There are no rules on this forum against Armchair- Generals or Toilet- cleaners , being members or posting . Some real Generals or soldiers come out of a war with limited experience or knowledge , but with PTSD . Politicians are mostly corrupt and untrustworthy , and are not to be believed . A pen is mightier than a sword .

( 2 ) Killing the " enemy " , into defeat , is one approach . Yet , to be successful in this , one has to kill a lot of people . A difficult task in itself . A better way , may be to encircle an enemy , without killing many , while leaving them the option of surrender . If an objective is highly important to take or destroy , and it is not possible to encircle , then removing enemy troops may be unavoidable .

( 3 ) To my mind , the priority in this operation is to encircle UA in Donnbas . Allowing them no mobility ( at least East of the Dnieper River ) , since I saw on TV , that a UA trooper from Mariupol , was easily transporting reporters from western MSM , to Odessa in private car ! All traffic over the River to be destroyed . Food aid to be provided by Russia or through Russia , to people in the East .

( 4 ) There should be no immediate need to capture a city , even if troops hiding there . Unless there is a valuable facility to be possessed without destroying it . Large cities like Kiev or Kharkiv , should be bypassed . After encircling UA in Donnbas , a Sea-Land operation to encircle Odessa and capture coast entirely . Bad idea to go into Kharkiv or other towns .

Cruise missile (propably Kaliber) in Lviv region

Somalis on the (Mariupol) beach

Aftermath of a short visit by Mr. Iskander

Moving trough Kharkov region

Locals

Big_Gazza wrote:A.Martyanovs view on the loss of the Moskva.



He doesn't think it is likely that she was taken out by Neptune AShMs, though it still a possibility.  He also thinks it is possible that sabotage was the cause, ie a crew member with Ukie sympathies gained access to magazine and caused the fire.  He suspects that the ammo that detonated was the 130mm shells of the fwd arty battery or the depth charges of the fwd RBU complex.  

Bottom line is that at this moment we simply don't know. We'll just need to wait.

Interestingly he says of the ~3000 POWs taken so far, about ~1000 are in the RF and being interrogated for war crimes purposes, that many active NATO personnel has been captured and will be paraded as part of the "walk of shame" once war crimes trials gather pace

If this had been a missile strike, there would be footage of the launch of the missiles. They claimed they used a drone for spotting or fool the radars but there is no footage of or from a drone.
Anything was the clown regime does is for media consumption. They show footage of ATGM launches from Syria and claim they´ve done it. They show scenes from computer games. Footage from aircraft and drone simulators. And this time they only showed some easy to debunk old footage from an sinking tanker/freighter? Highly unlikely.

The most likely scenario is some malfunction in one of the myriad of electric systems on board the ship. Or some cellphone or notebook battery exploding. The fire spread trough crew quarters and reached some ammunition. Boom. Damage done.

Big_Gazza wrote:A.Martyanovs view on the loss of the Moskva.



He doesn't think it is likely that she was taken out by Neptune AShMs, though it still a possibility.  He also thinks it is possible that sabotage was the cause, ie a crew member with Ukie sympathies gained access to magazine and caused the fire.  He suspects that the ammo that detonated was the 130mm shells of the fwd arty battery or the depth charges of the fwd RBU complex.  

Bottom line is that at this moment we simply don't know. We'll just need to wait.

Interestingly he says of the ~3000 POWs taken so far, about ~1000 are in the RF and being interrogated for war crimes purposes, that many active NATO personnel has been captured and will be paraded as part of the "walk of shame" once war crimes trials gather pace

Is the walk of shame copied from the Roman triumph?

At that time we used to end the triumph in front of the temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus, and the defeated king and leaders would be strangled to death there while in their best dresses and ornaments after being walked in chain during the whole procession.

Just as an example, the Gallic king Vercingetorix had been kept as prisoner for 6 years after his defeat and surrender, just to be paraded and then strangled during Caesar triumph in 46 BC.

Hole wrote:

Zelensky is still alive because he is needed to sign the capitulation agreement, which will propably give up large parts of "Ukraine" to eihter independence (sort of) or to become part of Russia again. Also the western border of left-over Ukraine could be guarded by Russian Border Guards, a few military bases in the country and so on. This would give the agreement a lot of legitimacy. That´s why the west will kill the clown in the not so distant future. They will declare some random Guido the new president, keep him in Washington/Brussels/Warsaw and "continue the fight against the evil russian invaders".

No point, the neo-Nazis will most likely kill Zelensky if he tries to surrender, and blame it on the Russians.

Big_Gazza wrote:Mandatory viewing for anyone who wants to understand the Russia-Ukraine conflict - its origins, the strategic military situation, and the impact on the global financial-economic sphere.

Goddamn but I respect Scott Ritter.  If only Murkan "elites" had the intelligence and honesty of this guy.

Don't be delusional.

The desperation is so high, so palpable, people will seek appeal to authority validation from "ex" American spooks "fallen from grace" (apparently of course - you never quite leave the agency), german, british, brazilians....floridian grifters.... Anybody, anyone that can sell that sweet lie, sweetly wrapped that says "everything is going to be ok", "everything is going according to plan", "there is no reason to worry or panic", "the West are idiots", "the Russians are so smart" etc etc..... Otherwise how could you face the crises, the tension, how could possible sleep peacefully. We all know above all of it, it's just a big massive front to hide the real insecurity and fear cursing through the brain.

It's those people, far far away from Russia's political and military apparatus that know best. Kinda funny contrasting the divide for say a guy like Strelkov... a "6th columnist", a butthurt washed up has been... all for going directly for the Kremlin jugular.

It seems all of this has one common dominator..... for as long as the Kremlin is praised, and damaged control for, or "criticized" with soft gloves boxed in a small confine of limits to create cred validation you're ok for the hive mind. Step outside that confine and well, you'll be an outcast real quick. Not only of the Russian establishment and its propaganda apparatus which is quick to protect itself but also of the sheeple hooked to that drug. A massive circular ego stoking exercise.

I wouldn't be fucking surprised if half of them are western assets, half russian..... so easy to play the act and so easy to dupe the sheeple it's a fucking no brainer. You get "street cred" quick. And seeing how manyturncoats are in the halls of power in Russia, it's frankly a big fat joke.

Also funny is the often seen propaganda lines saying western elites are dumber or stupider than this or that nobody. Really? Who's on the back foot facing a crisis? That's when you know that brain isn't worth half of a broken nut.

ArgentinaGuard wrote:

Yes, I thought very well. Russia must show that it is ready for anything, to end the human life of the enemy. That the Western world experienced fear of the apocalypse in Cuba. And it is justified, since Russia is risking its national destiny, in addition to defending decent civilization from globalist and liberal bullshit. I expect a clear message. Let's see if Biden and the parasites continue to supply the Ukrainians.

First you talk about the fantasy that the Invincible was sunk during the Malvidas/Falklands War and now you say that the Russians should nuke Washington!?

Hole wrote:S-300F has only one radar (above the hangar, which can be turned and has a coverage of around 270°)), it follows the targets (up to 6 or 12) and sends info to the missiles. The search part is done by the two specialized radars on top of the masts (360° coverage).

To understand that blind spot on Moskva, compare to Aegis cruisers.....they have their phased array radar plate in four directions, covering 360 degrees. Moskva had only one phased array radar, on a pivoting base, covering only one sector, leaving a blind spot. Fiberglass radome at stern of Moskva is for the phased array radar. Phased array radars are incredibly expensive but the computers needed to run them are GARGANTUALLY expensive. Russia did the cheap solution, a phased array radar that points into direction of threat.

I proceed from simple facts: there is still not a single frame of a fire on the cruiser Moscow. There are no shots of launching anti-ship missiles or shots of the PKR hitting the cruiser Moscow. You know, in any army in the world there is something called "means of objective control", which are designed to confirm the hit, defeat and destruction of the target. Such a target as a missile cruiser is undoubtedly under constant electronic, optical and God knows what kind of surveillance from the United States and NATO. And if we have not yet seen any confirmation that "Moscow" was hit by any PKR, this most likely means one thing: they simply did not exist. And the fire on the Moskva has either internal causes (accident, sabotage, diversion), or spontaneous external ones (detonation on one of the random mines drifting in the Black Sea now). Everything else is speculation and speculation.

The most likely is that moskva was subject to sabotage by crewmember with hohol sympathy

He caused the magazine of bow 130mm ammunition to catch fire

On another note, does anyone know why Su24 was not used in this conflict?

Despite it being old, as a bomber it had a lot of life, and it's an aircraft that is fast and low, and even can fly high to deliver cheap bombs

Does anyone know why su24 did not make an appearance?

Apparently only Ukrainian su24 was known to be used

But Russian su24 no

A high flying su24 can do the same job as kalibr or iskander for cheaper

If it flies high then it is out of range of Shorads

Such a machine can carry a good payload of bombs as seen in Syria and can perform day and night bombing

You can also maintain tempo of strikes in using both