Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12

Dr.Snufflebug wrote:PS, Russia should really develop a cheap-ish PGM add-on like the U.S. Paveway series.

Problem is, Russia (well, the USSR) kinda stuck with the un-aerodynamic M54 bomb models, optimized for internal carry.

The low-drag M62 variants don't show up as often, and aren't ideal for such a "kit" either due to the fin layout (the "ring" in particular) and general stubbiness.

Bit of a blunder in hindsight, apparently (?) necessitating dedicated PGMs like the KAB series. The SVP-24 "Gefest" doesn't solve this issue either, though it certainly is an upgrade over the legacy bomb computers.

But there *has* to be some way to properly PGM-ize at least the M62 models.

Anyway, the laser guidance add-ons for S-8 and S-13 rockets seemed very clever. Whatever happened to those?

Arkanghelsk wrote:Quintana, Ward, Peter and CossackGundi captured or killed in Mariupol

Now we know why NATO carried out the MOSKVA attack

Due to imminent revelation of NATO losses in Mariupol

Quintana claimed he was in California


Captured NATO and Sean Peter

Next Cloutier will be revealed

Hole wrote:

Dr.Snufflebug wrote:PS, Russia should really develop a cheap-ish PGM add-on like the U.S. Paveway series.

Problem is, Russia (well, the USSR) kinda stuck with the un-aerodynamic M54 bomb models, optimized for internal carry.

The low-drag M62 variants don't show up as often, and aren't ideal for such a "kit" either due to the fin layout (the "ring" in particular) and general stubbiness.

Bit of a blunder in hindsight, apparently (?) necessitating dedicated PGMs like the KAB series. The SVP-24 "Gefest" doesn't solve this issue either, though it certainly is an upgrade over the legacy bomb computers.

But there *has* to be some way to properly PGM-ize at least the M62 models.

Anyway, the laser guidance add-ons for S-8 and S-13 rockets seemed very clever. Whatever happened to those?

Module-A and MPK

I guess the SVP-24 system is cheaper.

sepheronx wrote:I recall a few years ago they did test glide bombs but never really started production as I am aware due to higher costs.  As said by Hole, SVP-24 overall was cheaper as it gave about same accuracy in telling the pilot when to drop a dumb bomb onto a position before they would reach so it would calculate wind, friction, etc for the dumb bomb so in essence, it allowed the Su-24's as example to drop them at similar distances than that of glide.  Or at least presumed.

diabetus wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I recall a few years ago they did test glide bombs but never really started production as I am aware due to higher costs.  As said by Hole, SVP-24 overall was cheaper as it gave about same accuracy in telling the pilot when to drop a dumb bomb onto a position before they would reach so it would calculate wind, friction, etc for the dumb bomb so in essence, it allowed the Su-24's as example to drop them at similar distances than that of glide.  Or at least presumed.

There's no way a CCRP system like svp-24 is more accurate than a satnav guided bomb.

Isos wrote:

diabetus wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I recall a few years ago they did test glide bombs but never really started production as I am aware due to higher costs.  As said by Hole, SVP-24 overall was cheaper as it gave about same accuracy in telling the pilot when to drop a dumb bomb onto a position before they would reach so it would calculate wind, friction, etc for the dumb bomb so in essence, it allowed the Su-24's as example to drop them at similar distances than that of glide.  Or at least presumed.

There's no way a CCRP system like svp-24 is more accurate than a satnav guided bomb.

Jamm the GPS and it will be.

diabetus wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I recall a few years ago they did test glide bombs but never really started production as I am aware due to higher costs.  As said by Hole, SVP-24 overall was cheaper as it gave about same accuracy in telling the pilot when to drop a dumb bomb onto a position before they would reach so it would calculate wind, friction, etc for the dumb bomb so in essence, it allowed the Su-24's as example to drop them at similar distances than that of glide.  Or at least presumed.

There's no way a CCRP system like svp-24 is more accurate than a satnav guided bomb.

JohninMK wrote:

Hole wrote:

Somewhere in Donbass

Just think of the saving in ammo/logistics, man effort etc if a drone and/or smart shells has been available.

Arkanghelsk wrote:

diabetus wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I recall a few years ago they did test glide bombs but never really started production as I am aware due to higher costs.  As said by Hole, SVP-24 overall was cheaper as it gave about same accuracy in telling the pilot when to drop a dumb bomb onto a position before they would reach so it would calculate wind, friction, etc for the dumb bomb so in essence, it allowed the Su-24's as example to drop them at similar distances than that of glide.  Or at least presumed.

There's no way a CCRP system like svp-24 is more accurate than a satnav guided bomb.

SVP is a closed loop system, meaning jamming interference will not render the bombs useless

GPS guided bombs will be useless in jamming of GPS

They are useful only in wars where US was only hyperpower

Now that Russia is challenging them everywhere , their munitions don't work even in Syria or Libya where Krasukha is present

Arkanghelsk wrote:
Next Cloutier will be revealed

Mir wrote:

Arkanghelsk wrote:
Next Cloutier will be revealed

I've heard Sean Penn is on his way!  

Arkanghelsk wrote:USS stark got shit on by exocet also , and USS Cole was done in by sandal fighters

USS stark AEGIS system failed

We must see if Moskvas sinking was as catastrophic as Stark

JohninMK wrote:

Hole wrote:l]
Somewhere in Donbass

Just think of the saving in ammo/logistics, man effort etc if a drone and/or smart shells has been available.

MonkeymodelBananaRepublic wrote:

12. So if I am following events mostly correctly. I have a few questions:
(A) Russia must have mountains of shells from the cold war and ongoing production in the 30 years since. As most Russian calibers for tanks, artillery and bombs dropped by plane have been in production 40 years +
Does that mean when ammunition is selected to go to the front or be used that the oldest shells are mobilized first? So you can get used out of them before they are scrapped. And you work your way towards the newer ones?
Older shells are normally used first in training, not sure here.
(B) Russia has called up 60,000 reservists (or so we are told in our media) to run logistics and rear area duties. Does that mean Russia is currently moving more combat battalions into the front (hence needed more soldiers to maintain logistics)?
Have not heard of any reservist called up however they were looking for experienced soldiers for short term contracts.
(C) When bringing vehicles out of storage and moving them to the front. How are they selected? I ask this because there were photos of grads on old chassis (zil 131?) as opposed to Ural chassis being sent to the front. Does a principle of utilize the oldest equipment first hold here in order to get the most use out of it before its scrapped? This would kind of make sense as Ukraine does not necessarily have cutting edge technology so these old chassis grads will perform their role just fine and if lost to artillery or anti-tank missiles or drones they loose something they wont miss anyway. Similar concept to equipment chosen for the northern attack a the start of the war?
A lot of older equipment was used at first for a multitude of reasons.Some on units used, others for the trial purposes while the equipment of the Ukrainians was being destroyed. Some others not so sure. I believe there is a strong suspicion of being attacked by NATO directly so some of the best equipment held in reserve. Best to be prepared in any case
(D) Where about is the first guard tank army in Ukraine now? I am interested in following their movement and progress (they have an amazing history behind them)
Kharkov / Izhium area.
(E) For the closing of the cauldron is Russia re-arranging units into divisions and working as divisions?
They never stopped using divisions. The BTG is an operational unit, still needs support and command assistance. 20th and 7th in Kherson zone, 19th, 42nd and 150th in Zaporizhzhia to Donetsk zone. 127th between Donetsk and Gorlivka, 3rd and 144th moving towards Severodonetsk while the 2nd, 4th and 90th around Izhum. Not sure where the 98th and 106th are lining up. To be clear none of these are full strength.
(F) Is it realistic that Russia would parade the AZOV and Ukrainian prisoners down red square along with any NATO "advisors" captured/surrendered or is that too provocative?
Don't believe so, maybe in Donetsk.
(G) Why not use FOAB on the factory in Mariupol and move on with life?
Tomorrow apparently.

I know I come into this really late, looking forward to learning and following the discussion & events of our times

Satnav guided bombs have backup inertial navigation.

Arkanghelsk wrote:https://t.me/swodki/72289

The azovstal bombing run continues

Mir wrote:

Arkanghelsk wrote:
Next Cloutier will be revealed

I've heard Sean Penn is on his way!  

Arkanghelsk wrote:USS stark got shit on by exocet also , and USS Cole was done in by sandal fighters

USS stark AEGIS system failed

We must see if Moskvas sinking was as catastrophic as Stark