Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15

diabetus wrote:Hmm i wonder how Russia will smoke them out now?

If that is indeed true, the best way is FOAB them. I am waiting and waiting for this to happen. I am curious why have such a weapon that has to some degree deterrent factor or demoralizing factor better to speak and not use it.

Some very good points made in the video, Russia should not/cannot **** around and waste time. The collective west may make a move on Odessa.

Does anyone know why Odessa is not being taken or why Russian forces are in Odessa?

Werewolf wrote:

diabetus wrote:Hmm i wonder how Russia will smoke them out now?

If that is indeed true, the best way is FOAB them. I am waiting and waiting for this to happen. I am curious why have such a weapon that has to some degree deterrent factor or demoralizing factor better to speak and not use it.

Not sure how effective that will be if they are deep underground.

par far wrote:Some very good points made in the video, Russia should not/cannot **** around and waste time. The collective west may make a move on Odessa.

Does anyone know why Odessa is not being taken or why Russian forces are in Odessa?

If someone will say they know - they will be guessing. Odessa could be the next Russian push as some analysts think, but we will have to be patient and see. Landing ships are not threatening Odessa so we need to wait for front to move.

diabetus wrote:
Not sure how effective that will be if they are deep underground.

Not as effective as hunger and thirst

Regular wrote:

par far wrote:Some very good points made in the video, Russia should not/cannot **** around and waste time. The collective west may make a move on Odessa.

Does anyone know why Odessa is not being taken or why Russian forces are in Odessa?

If someone will say they know - they will be guessing. Odessa could be the next Russian push as some analysts think, but we will have to be patient and see. Landing ships are not threatening Odessa so we need to wait for front to move.

diabetus wrote:
Not sure how effective that will be if they are deep underground.

Not as effective as hunger and thirst

They seem to have food and water stockpiled, they've been there for a while.

par far wrote:Some very good points made in the video, Russia should not/cannot **** around and waste time. The collective west may make a move on Odessa.

Does anyone know why Odessa is not being taken or why Russian forces are in Odessa?

Because they need more manpower for that.

diabetus wrote:
They seem to have food and water stockpiled, they've been there for a while.

What I can say then? Bon appetit. I can't wait for survivor memoirs, it will be the best recipe book.

My point is if they are in catacombs - just leave them. They will give up and it won't cost a thing for Russia, no need to waste any resources on them.

Werewolf wrote:

diabetus wrote:Hmm i wonder how Russia will smoke them out now?

If that is indeed true, the best way is FOAB them. I am waiting and waiting for this to happen. I am curious why have such a weapon that has to some degree deterrent factor or demoralizing factor better to speak and not use it.

in my opinion,

So far i think the DPR/RF makes Azovstal an proper hell for Nazi's.
why expedite an end to their suffering?.

18+ for severe physical injuries.

diabetus wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

diabetus wrote:Hmm i wonder how Russia will smoke them out now?

If that is indeed true, the best way is FOAB them. I am waiting and waiting for this to happen. I am curious why have such a weapon that has to some degree deterrent factor or demoralizing factor better to speak and not use it.

Not sure how effective that will be if they are deep underground.

Give them headaches if nothing else...  but can you imagine the physiological trauma of those big bombs going off overhead

par far wrote:Some very good points made in the video, Russia should not/cannot **** around and waste time. The collective west may make a move on Odessa....

Only way West takes Odessa is if Russians​ end up being too much of a pussies to nuke the entry points if they try

Any successful move by Ukraine or the West is purely Russia's fault, Russia is in the driver's seat so it's their call what West takes or not

sepheronx wrote:NATO is gonna fight Russia to the last Ukrainian....

Sounds good to me, solves old problems left unsolved and new problems before they happen

Does anyone really believe that Ukro forces leaving their prepared defenses is gong to work out well for them?

Not just leaving prepared defences and urban areas, but also leaving their meatshields behind...

This character, is every day that passes, more anti-Russian.

Coop has always been anti Russian though he tries to pretend to be neutral he is far from it.

Apes

Killed by a bunch of apes

That's not a fight, that's humiliation

We don't know what actually happened and you are making judgement calls based on kievs obviously wrong propaganda and Russia giving ambiguous facts.

She couldn't defend herself against RC plane, respect went out the window several times over

How well do you think western ships would go against small drones... there is a reason drones are popular... and war experience recently has shown they can be threats but the best equipped to deal with such threats has been the Russians with their air defence systems which are clearly the best in the world.

She couldn't unleash half a salvo of 30mm CIWS rounds on two Kh-35 knockoffs, USN CBG is in the realm of D&D level fantasy now

Without the facts two knockoff Kh-35s is the fantasy.

At least we tried and we didn't just roll over, unlike Moskva

You are trying like the orcs... what special prize did you win?

Moskva is naval equivalent of Russian POW getting their balls cut off because they were told to not harm the Nazis

Moskva was an old previously very capable capital ship that has not had any money spent on her because she was left in a backwater little lake called the Black Sea. For that role she was fine and as there was nothing to replace her there was no problem keeping her. Then an unexpected war situation appeared and its existing capabilities became useful so they deployed her to use her radar to support operations.

We don't know what happened... the presence of the ship was not the problem... the lack of support ships perhaps a few corvettes with modern shorter range defences could have been used to protect her from drones... but would not have done anything regarding a mine...

Are you actually equalizing those two situations?

Are you trying to say only the underdog has heros?

I guess that means the Albanians currently running Kosovo is full of heros and Serbia is full of non heros because the KLA were the underdogs too.

Spoiler warning: Russia is not the underdog in this story, they are not outnumbered, they have every possible superiority in situational awareness and are not fighting overwhelmingly superior enemy (they aren't even fighting reasonably smaller enemy, they are fighting rabble of apes)

Numbers don't help, or China would have brutalised Japan during WWII and before and after... and complete situational awareness is not possible.... that is a myth... They have used tactics and manouvers to ensure a smaller and more mobile force with force multipliers like artillery and air power can chew up much larger less organised forces.... but they are the same people with similar weapons... call them apes or orcs... they can pull a trigger and launch rockets and set explosive booby traps.

If the Ukraine had tried this on Russia they would have been cleaned up and pushed out of the country rather quickly if they had made any progress into Russia at all in the first place, but that is not to say a poorly trained but well equipped rabble can't torment a super power... talk to the Taliban or the Viet cong...
Underestimating your enemy makes you worse than you claim for the Russian planners... I am sure they were hoping they would all remember they are brothers and surrender and then they could just talk things through... but the lack of any progress on the Minsk agreements was a hint that that was not going to happen and it didn't... which is not to say they should have gone in guns blasing and killed everyone like the Americans.

If reports were true, and Moskva really had all those problems with nonworking subsystems, than this is a question of criminal negligence.

Reports from a source that not very trustworthy... trust at your peril.

Sending soldiers to war with nonfunctional ship is an act of crime.

All this crime bullshit... this is war.... man the hell up. It was the only ship with a suitable radar available to do the job they needed done so it was sent.

Especially, since there was no pressing need to do that and other ships were available.

No pressing need to monitor HATO flights restocking Kiev with weapons via flights of transport planes?

They don't have any other cruisers in the Black Sea with radar sets that size and with that range.

Second thing, i see that Garry mentioned parallels with Serbian pilots. That, as well, was an act of criminal negligence and incompetence.

And I was not talking about whether they should have been put in that position in the first place... I am saying that was the position they were put in and they could have said these are deathtraps and I refuse to obey orders, but they did not... they followed orders which put them at serious risk and some paid with their lives and for that I... a person on the other side of the planet who has never been to war and has never been shot at or been told to kill anyone thinks that is rather brave... but obviously you other experts who are so quick to pass judgement on the Russian military and Putin and Shoigus left testicle think they are idiots.

After the war and when Milosevic was gone there was an outcry and people asked that, then acting commander of RV and PVO, general Smiljanic be prosecuted, but everything was swept under the carpet and he was only retired.

Serbia will be part of HATO soon so they need incompetent leaders in their military... how else can they defend themselves from the US MIC.  

Like I said... I could care less about the details of what we don't even know went wrong, I am talking about the courage of the operators and I personally think anyone prepared to go to war has a level of bravery those of us sitting safe and sound in the west should respect.

Which is also why I think the orcs should also be given the chance to surrender if they ever wake up.

As PD said, in this case, Russia is a side with much stronger army and more resources, so blunders like these carry even more weight.

No they don't. What you are talking about is pride and pride means nothing in war.... pride is just ego.

The biggest serb victory in Kosovo was shooting down an F-117, but of course that was about skill on the part of the Serbs and lies on the part of the US... it clearly was not stealthy as they claim.  They tried to spin some bullshit about flying the same route on the same timings but that is just crap... I have a bus timetable which tells me the regular route of the local bus... if I sat on the street with a camera and a watch and a time table... what are the chances I could take a photo blindfolded and with ear plugs in my ears that has a bus inside the frame... especially of a bus afraid of cameras so if it sees me taking lots of photos it will avoid driving past me.

it is just bollocks.

Your wasting your time, the fanboys here will never agree with you, I call them fanboys for a reason because they will defend a criminal act like this since its Russia but say the US did it, oh boy they wouldn't stop bringing it up.

The US did do this... 5 billion plus cookies... Nazi units... Bio weapons labs, nuclear weapons... most of the Ukrainian army sitting on the border of the Donbass... were they afraid the Donbass might break out and invade them... or were they about to invade the Donbass and mass murder them all with the justification that they are Russians so it is OK.

I can't believe that they are actually openly whining about it, this is like Ukrainians complaining about getting bombed in the middle of the war, what else did they think would happen?

Kiev has been whining the last 8 years that the conflict in the Donbass is a Russian invasion... that is how they justify the shelling of civilians... now they have what they said they had and they are even more upset because all the promises from the US and EU and HATO faded and disappeared...

If USA really had something to do with it it was perfectly valid play and the best troll move since Operation Cyclone

The US has invaded lots of countries based on the idea that the target country might have bio weapons or nukes or they are attacking their own people or neighbours...

but by do it, I meant send a ship into combat action not functional

The claim it was non functional came from the Orcs... not a trusted source... if it was non functional then why send it to monitor HATO supply lines to Kiev... that does not make any sense.

Russia really doesn't look like it's in any sort of hurry to win this war.

Rushing would just increase the risk and deathtoll for the Russian forces.

The West are now the ones dumping mercs, arms, fueld and tens of billions of dollars in financial support every month into an Afghanistan, while all Russia has to do is just hold to minimizing losses.

Not only that it is western audiences that have an attention span of a goldfish.... after months of telling the western audience that the heroic Orcs are kicking Russian arse... what are they going to do as the truth seeps out and they keep wondering how many million Russian troops Putin is prepared to lose.

How long will they keep taking western news reports at face value only to find later on the turn out to be false.

Takes a special kind of stupid... a we don't actually care and are entertained to hear our side is winning even when they are not, but when prices start going up and the effects of this war on grain exports and other important global factors kick in and it really starts to effect them of course the west will blame Putin and his war that he came up with all on his own... we had nothing to do with it at all... and they will likely believe that too... but it wont make anything cheaper.

In reality land this means that the leadership of this failed fake country realised that it lost the war, that´s why they use drones and other stuff for propaganda instead of at least trying to use them for real military purposes.

Also suggests they are running out of volunteers/bodies...

Well the Bayraktar's still win out in the cost ratio to the Tor system

Tors are pricey. They're also manned, while TB-2s are not.

TB-2s are pricey even if someone else is paying the bills.

The Orcs have the advantage that they likely have all sorts of recon support from HATO so when they find a location that only has one TOR vehicle they can mob attack it... if it had fired all its missiles then the HE and flammable propellent to metal and empty space ratio of the TOR would be pretty good... it really depends on what hits they managed and how damaged it was... remember these arseholes have a history of doctoring video footage to add flames and explosions where none existed.

Bit of a lesson to have several anti UAV systems operating together in cooperation with enough redundancy in defence that systems can reload while others protect them.

It's just going to screw over people in the Kharkov region, many of whom have actually supported Russia.

They seem to manage to be friendly to whomever is in charge...

No one really knows the goals and/or mission of the Russian forces in Ukraine.

Really... because I have heard Putin mention the goals quite a few times...

There has been a degree of speculation on this, though ultimately that is what it remains - speculation. For example, the vast majority of videos from Ukraine originate from FSVNG, DNR, and LNR units. We rarely see videos from SV, SpN, PVO, VDV, or VMF (unless they originate from RuMoD). This has created a 'fog of war' to outside observers (duh) and we are forced to heavily rely on Telegram/Twitter users to regurgitate information they themselves read someone (Only a few are primary sources of the information they provide).

Seems the Russians are not even trying to fight an information war against the west in the west... which I think is sensible considering any attempts would be censored anyway.

They don't need to win the west over... they have had it with all the bullshit from the west since the end of the cold war. The west was happiest when Russia was on its knees and wont be happy again till they are back there... which does not interest Russia.

For example, a user holding a strong belief that a particular type of equipment is invulnerable (wunderwaffe) is shocked to see it destroyed out in the field. Then, after the shock subsides he decides it is due to the 'incompetence' of the troops operating the equipment of the general staff of the army completely ignoring that, perhaps, his initial belief of invincibility was not correct.

Or even that all the equipment and people of a force cannot be lost of killed or they must be doing it wrong.

It seems they think the invader destroys and the invaded gets destroyed and any damage to the invader is incompetence or lack of drones or lack of APS systems... I mean traditionally a military force moves or stays still while fighting, while the support columns keep them operating with fuel and weapons and food, but somehow the attacked force should only attack the military force and not target the supply column which should be protected from any attack for some reason... even the trucks should be armoured to stop RPGs and ATGMs...

Certain people (You know who you are) need to be more truthful with themselves and admit you know **** all about anything related to military or war. Leave it to the professionals out in the field and watch it all play out over a 3-6 month period. Won't need to make a lot of predictions then.

Very good post... I think what is important to add is that Soviet anti armour equipment is better than western equipment... for 10,000 Javelins you could probably make 100,000 soviet equivalents for the same money and even 10,000 soviet equivalents would perform better than these javelins. A second factor is air defence... HATO has never attacked a country with even a fraction of the air defence systems of the Ukraine... we saw a glimpse of it in Kosovo where after 78 days they still could not say they had full air supremacy... Serb air defence units were dangerous from day one to day 78 and this was with rather more basic gear than the Orcs have at their command.

Soviet and Russian air defence equipment is designed of course to work in an IADS, but it can also work individually without a functioning IADS too... the Russians took down their IADS, but the sensors located in HATO airspace are out of reach and safe... no country HATO has ever fought had that to deal with.

Ukraine air defence is not as good as Russian but it is still better than any HATO country because they have it in huge numbers, while western countries only have token amounts of air defence because they expect air power to protect them... the obvious problem of course is that fighters really struggle to deal with drones... slow and hovering drones made of plastic and with electric motors have tiny IR and radar signatures and you can't see them till you are very very close.

Everyone has problems against drones... there would not be so many of them around if they were useless... but again the west has even less effective capacity to defend itself from drones or low flying cruise missiles etc etc.

Price doesn't matter for both sides. Russia produces Tor domestically. Ukrainians receive TB-2 as a gift. Su-24 can't be used anywhere else in the war.

They have a very limited number of Su-24s...

Can the tor not have a mobile slave module with 32 or more ready to fire missiles, which goes where it does for a static defense operation/mission.

What it should have is allways operate four vehicles together so when some are reloading others are ready to defend them.

This is a bit of a recurring theme, unfortunately. Tor massacres drones and munitions all day long, runs out of interceptors, and the hunter turns into the hunted. They ought to do something about this vulnerable reload phase - maybe put up multispectral smoke screens? I imagine it would be a bitch and half to rearm the Tor under cover of opaque fog but at least you're not an easy target.

They are working on new mini anti drone missiles for TOR specifically, and also small interceptor drones to intercept incoming artillery shells and rockets in volume with 100 plus missiles per vehicle...

They need to load 24 su-24 with 250 and 500 and carpet bomb the airfield with su-30 in anti radar and air superiority mode dyring the night and from the sea. That should be an easy operation.

Or 500kg cluster bombs with runway cratering submunitions...

The most bizarre thing is the adoration of the m777 155mm howitzer. It doesn't really provide any advantage over the MSTA-B aside from weight.

And adds a unique set of ammo they haven't used before...

The island is quite small. Not enough space for a decent networked air defence system or to maneuver before re-loading. But look at the balance. The Kiev regime lost many drones, but more importantly aircraft that can´t be replaced and one of its last boats.

Three Hips with presumably landing troops... there could have been 20 in each helicopter for an assault on the island or perhaps attempting to take it back... and they hit one TOR vehicle...

The collective west may make a move on Odessa.

No they wont.

They have taken great pains to appear to not be directly involved.... any HATO country moves on Odessa and they become fair game... and the US does not want to be Glassed.

..while having committed no more than 20% of their active army, with reservists as yet untouched, and no signs of a mass mobilisation. Compare that to Ukropisstan...

Puts into perspective HATO threats and belief of superiority to the Russian forces.

Of course they are going to have to build a lot of Kalibrs and Zircons and Kinzhals etc etc...

My point is if they are in catacombs - just leave them. They will give up and it won't cost a thing for Russia, no need to waste any resources on them.

Exactly... they are no threat in their holes.

Give them headaches if nothing else... pale  but can you imagine the physiological trauma of those big bombs going off overhead

Russian thermobaric bombs tend to burn as they expand, so they can reach into holes and tunnels to a degree, but they consume oxygen as they detonate and they essentially convert the oxygen to carbon monoxide...

The real question is water... I suspect they probably had a system that took roof water, but that wont work when that is damaged... ironically it might be worth while dropping LSD near ventilators... a large group of men armed and with seriously depraved sexual preferences... an interesting experiment...

I am no fan of this tactic as it does slow down advances and gives enemy opportunity to regroup and make larger attacks when in theory Russia could create multiple fronts spreading enemies forces thin.

Enemies regrouping and forming up for counter attacks are easy targets for artillery.

If you want Russian forces to roam the country side burning up fuel and extending the lines of support vehicles needed to keep them fighting then the Orcs can sit and wait and ambush the Russians... pretty obvious what they are doing is more productive and safer for Russian forces.

Well Russia has a lot of ground to cover before it can take Odessa.

If the people of Odessa have any brains the nazis there that are anti Russian could be dealt with quietly and they could have their own Maidan and sort their own shit out and invite the Russians in with no bloodshed at all like the Crimea did...

The Ukrainians dumb enough to listen to what their government (living abroad) says, then yeah.

Underlines the value of a free press... something the west no longer has... or seems to want.

Is costing Ukrainians their lives, but if they can't be bothered getting themselves better informed... you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think.

Azovstal is conveniently adjacent to the Azov sea. Now that the civilians are gone just fully close off all the entrances, save for one. Then you just pump the Azov in and let the water do the work.

diabetus wrote:

Regular wrote:

par far wrote:Some very good points made in the video, Russia should not/cannot **** around and waste time. The collective west may make a move on Odessa.

Does anyone know why Odessa is not being taken or why Russian forces are in Odessa?

If someone will say they know - they will be guessing. Odessa could be the next Russian push as some analysts think, but we will have to be patient and see. Landing ships are not threatening Odessa so we need to wait for front to move.

diabetus wrote:
Not sure how effective that will be if they are deep underground.

Not as effective as hunger and thirst

They seem to have food and water stockpiled, they've been there for a while.

They're getting more food/water delivered in return for freeing host... **ahem**, civilians stuck in Azovstal

flamming_python wrote:

diabetus wrote:

Regular wrote:

par far wrote:Some very good points made in the video, Russia should not/cannot **** around and waste time. The collective west may make a move on Odessa.

Does anyone know why Odessa is not being taken or why Russian forces are in Odessa?

If someone will say they know - they will be guessing. Odessa could be the next Russian push as some analysts think, but we will have to be patient and see. Landing ships are not threatening Odessa so we need to wait for front to move.

diabetus wrote:
Not sure how effective that will be if they are deep underground.

Not as effective as hunger and thirst

They seem to have food and water stockpiled, they've been there for a while.

They're getting more food/water delivered in return for freeing host... **ahem**, civilians stuck in Azovstal

They have none left now.

flamming_python wrote:
Well the Bayraktar's still win out in the cost ratio to the Tor system
Tors are pricey. They're also manned, while TB-2s are not.

They have lost two planes, 3 helos, 2 UAVs, and god knows how many soldiers (Mi-8 were manned) only to stage a commercial for Turks.
And finally scored a hit of empty Tor and a barge.
Does not adds up for me.

It is something how strong the propaganda is about this war:

http://historyreviewed.best/index.php/is-russia-heading-for-its-greatest-military-defeat-since-the-russo-japanese-war/

flamming_python wrote:

They're getting more food/water delivered in return for freeing host... **ahem**, civilians stuck in Azovstal

Was this actually confirmed? So at least 14 tons of food and water as there was a report of 1 ton per person? That like 3 Kamaz trucks. I doubt they got that much in the end. Also, if the food was laced with laxatives, then they will have a humanitarian catastrophe waiting to happen.  



By the way, there is another TB-2 footage from Snake Island. But it is edited as a music video so I will pass. It could as well be Ukrainian Mi-8 being destroyed... Or Russian. We just have to see the results.

Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

High-precision air-based missiles of the Russian Air Force have destroyed overnight the command post of a mechanized brigade near Pyatikhatka, Kharkov Region, and the communication hub of the Chervonoglinskoe military airfield near Artsyz. A Ukrainian naval corvette of project 1241 has also been destroyed near Odessa.

Operational-tactical and army aviation have hit 130 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

Among them: 3 command posts, 123 areas of manpower and military equipment concentration, 2 artillery batteries at firing positions and 2 depots of missile and artillery weapons and ammunition near Bakhmut and Krasnopolie.

The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than 420 nationalists and up to 55 armoured and motor vehicles.

During the night, Russian air defence means destroyed 2 more Ukrainian Su-24 bombers and 1 Mi-24 helicopter of the Ukrainian Air Force over Snake Island, and also shot down 1 Bayraktar-TB2 unmanned aerial vehicle near Odessa.

A total of 4 Ukrainian aircraft, 4 helicopters, including 3 with paratroopers on board, 3 Bayraktar-TB2 UAV and 1 Ukrainian Navy amphibious assault boat have been destroyed in the area during the day.

Missile troops and artillery have hit 56 command posts, 32 artillery firing positions, 415 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as 2 launchers of S-300 anti-aircraft missile systems near Korotych in Kharkov Region.

In total, 156 aircraft and 116 helicopters, 765 unmanned aerial vehicles, 297 anti-aircraft missile systems, 2,927 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 335 multiple launch rocket systems, 1,393 field artillery and mortars, as well as 2,746 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en

nero wrote:...No one really knows the goals and/or mission of the Russian forces in Ukraine...

Most sensible post I've seen since the op started. It seems to me that Russia is intent on concluding the Ukrainian problem with a controlled demolition, effectively with one hand behind its back. Vast majority of their fighting capability is being held in reserve... The real enemy lies across the Atlantic and Pacific after all. The current equation for the VSU is unsustainable, a protracted war when your enemy has total artillery and air superiority is really not a good time.