Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16

Isos wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Isos wrote:That's a war.

They are dumb to call it a special operation and not doing this war the proper way. That's some dumb propaganda move totally useless to try to not be seen as an agressor when in fact it's just a war.

Keeping doing what they are doing will just make tens of thousands deads more and destroy all the cities where they fight.

Russian losses are also huge. Manpower and hardware. Thry can't afford to continue this way.

No it isn't. Their dead isn't huge nor equipment lost. Now you used to be rather rational but now becoming irrational using bombastic statements with no proof.

Yeah, they are at russias border, and have been for quite some time not just in one specific area.

So what?

If they went in Gung ho, there would far far more dead, even for Russia. That is what happened first. Slow and methodical is always better.

Let the Ukrainians go to russias border. There is a large force waiting for them right outside of Kharkov.

They aren't concentrating all their forces for azovstal either.  They are moving in and around Izyum towards Slavyansk.  It's a process of doing it slow but right.

If you feel that it's being done wrong, I suggest you tell that to Shoigu and also go volunteer and fight.

Losses are huge for Russia. Just look at the losses of the paratroopers around Kiev. Plenty of deads and vehicles desteoyed. They were their best troops. Tank losses are also big just like their naval losses.

I'm not saying Ukraine will win. Of course russians will. I'm saying they don't make war as they were teached to do and make it last for too long which increases deads on both side including civilian deads.

Some game changing move were not done. Airports not destroyed, power supply still runing, internet which is a major weapon for ukrainians who coordinate their troop with it still running, command staff in Kiev with Zelensky taking pictures day and night. Iskanders used against lonely vehicles in fields for propaganda.

The only reason I find for this is that Putin wants a long war and keep the sanctions that hit back at europe. But that can be dangerous and hit back at Russia too. Because russian generals could have done this war much shorter.


If you know russian and soviet doctrine you would know that they are designing their military for huge movement onto the enemy and attacks in the rear on the command posts and communications. It's the total opposite of what they are doing in Ukraine. Zelensky and co would have been killed the first day according to their military doctrines.

I still don't know what is the end result they are looking to get. I don't think taking only Donetsk will do know. Is it, territory of NovoRussia (7 regions), or everything east of Dnepr or what is it? Denazification can mean anything aside from destroying natbats and pravy sektor.
I'm really bothered they didn't destroy bridges on the Dnepr. Also, Yuzhnoye and MotorSich were not hit. Is it because they plan to take those areas? If they do, they'll need more forces

Arkanghelsk wrote:Turkey cannot say "yes" to the membership of Finland and Sweden in NATO, it is impossible, let them not be offended.

Delegations from Sweden and Finland should not bother to travel to Turkey to convince Ankara to approve their NATO bids (c) Erdogan

Wow what an interesting turn of event

Will turks fold if Americans woo them with weapons and monetary compensation for f35?

limb wrote:Why don't we see the X-58U missile used in the VKS fr SEAD. It's superior to the X-31, with a speed of mach 4.5 instead of Mach 3 and 250km range instead of 110km.

Isos wrote:

I still don't know what is the end result they are looking to get. I don't think taking only Donetsk will do know. Is it, territory of NovoRussia (7 regions), or everything east of Dnepr or what is it? Denazification can mean anything aside from destroying natbats and pravy sektor.
I'm really bothered they didn't destroy bridges on the Dnepr. Also, Yuzhnoye and MotorSich were not hit. Is it because they plan to take those areas? If they do, they'll need more forces

No choice here. Take all Ukraine or have nazi attacking the donbas and russian borders for years.

Arkanghelsk wrote:Turkey cannot say "yes" to the membership of Finland and Sweden in NATO, it is impossible, let them not be offended.

Delegations from Sweden and Finland should not bother to travel to Turkey to convince Ankara to approve their NATO bids (c) Erdogan

Wow what an interesting turn of event

Will turks fold if Americans woo them with weapons and monetary compensation for f35?

flamming_python wrote:
Russia is going to take the whole of the Ukraine. Every inch, like Assad says. And denazify, demilitarize it. Understand that and you've understood the war. But it's not going to get too close to the Romanian or Polish borders until its ready to confront NATO head on. First the Kiev puppet regime needs to be taken care of, among other matters.

caveat emptor wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
Russia is going to take the whole of the Ukraine. Every inch, like Assad says. And denazify, demilitarize it. Understand that and you've understood the war. But it's not going to get too close to the Romanian or Polish borders until its ready to confront NATO head on. First the Kiev puppet regime needs to be taken care of, among other matters.

With the amount of forces deployed, this will not be possible. 
Kharkov direction is still not being dealt with, as Ukrainians started to send DRGs over Severskiy Donets, in the vicinity of Volchansk. If they are planning to do anything there, now is the time. Vovchansk is an important supply route. Not to mention that if Ukrainians get to take it, local population will suffer immensely, as it showed very  pro-Russian.

sepheronx wrote:

caveat emptor wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
Russia is going to take the whole of the Ukraine. Every inch, like Assad says. And denazify, demilitarize it. Understand that and you've understood the war. But it's not going to get too close to the Romanian or Polish borders until its ready to confront NATO head on. First the Kiev puppet regime needs to be taken care of, among other matters.

With the amount of forces deployed, this will not be possible. 
Kharkov direction is still not being dealt with, as Ukrainians started to send DRGs over Severskiy Donets, in the vicinity of Volchansk. If they are planning to do anything there, now is the time. Vovchansk is an important supply route. Not to mention that if Ukrainians get to take it, local population will suffer immensely, as it showed very  pro-Russian.

They tried to get the dingys going but got hit hard.

They are sitting back and hitting the Ukrainians while they try to cross the river.

caveat emptor wrote:

Isos wrote:

I still don't know what is the end result they are looking to get. I don't think taking only Donetsk will do know. Is it, territory of NovoRussia (7 regions), or everything east of Dnepr or what is it? Denazification can mean anything aside from destroying natbats and pravy sektor.
I'm really bothered they didn't destroy bridges on the Dnepr. Also, Yuzhnoye and MotorSich were not hit. Is it because they plan to take those areas? If they do, they'll need more forces

No choice here. Take all Ukraine or have nazi attacking the donbas and russian borders for years.

I'm not sure if it is a good decision to take whole Ukraine. Better option, imo, would be to incorporate friendly regions in the east and south into Russia and leave rest with some sort of friendly regime. Just clear them up of extremists. New Ukraine would be a 20-25 million country, cut of from Black Sea and with most of natural resources lost.