Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16

flamming_python wrote:


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As it is, although they are inflicting paper-cuts on Russia, each day is hundreds more Ukrainian soldiers dead, a further shutdown of the economy over scarce fuel and destroyed infrastructure, a further collapse of the state, and more people being made refugees through the ferocity of urban fighting. They are suffering immeasurably worse the longer the war goes on for. Which is why I say I can't figure out what they're fighting for, if they've lost anyway, and Russia isn't threatening their homes or their families. Surrender and get it over with, then start the road to recovery. Rather its the people for whom surrender isn't an option - that are controlling everyone else.

While Russia, has pretty much managed all the nasty surprises and tactics and is now directing the flow of the operation in a way that suits itself, minimizing its own casualties and maximizing the difficulties for supplying the Ukrainian forces and keeping them operational. For all you can say about Russian mistakes, Russia adapted very quickly to each new threat.

lancelot wrote:It only got worse after Macron came into power. He removes older systems from active service in France without putting new systems in service.

Arrow wrote:Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant will work for Russia – Russian Deputy Prime Minister Khusnullin.
This power plant has almost 6,000MW of power.

It is talked about a lot yes. But there is another power plant right next to that one as well.
Zaporizhzhia thermal power station. 3,650MWe coal power plant.
Stopped operating due to lack of coal transport. But now that it will be connected to the Donbass rail network I think it is a matter of time.

flamming_python wrote:It's like a different civilization, between 1991 and 2022.

d_taddei2 wrote:How many Russian and Donbass militia were stationed at the steel plant? Seen various numbers, but was wondering what everyone else had heard.

d_taddei2 wrote:How many Russian and Donbass militia were stationed at the steel plant? Seen various numbers, but was wondering what everyone else had heard. Pretty sure these will now be directed towards other areas of the Donbass.

Be interesting to finally see what foreigners where living in the bowels of the plant.

caveat emptor wrote:I was really hopping that Russia will pump in more regular infantry to do the legwork in the background. Other day, I've seen a video where some sort of marines or spetsnaz is providing support for logistical column. Couldn't they call up few thousand people from reserves or older class of conscripts to do that work and let these guys fight Ukrainians?

Erk wrote:

caveat emptor wrote:I was really hopping that Russia will pump in more regular infantry to do the legwork in the background. Other day, I've seen a video where some sort of marines or spetsnaz is providing support for logistical column. Couldn't they call up few thousand people from reserves or older class of conscripts to do that work and let these guys fight Ukrainians?

They need more than that. Basically, NATO is pushing Ukraine for a full mobilization, I think Zelensky said something about 1 million troops, don't know if he can do that or not, he tends to BS a lot. If NATO provides a wall of gear with the $40billion that US coughed up, and trains a large chunk of the Ukrainians on how to use it, say in Poland or Germany like they have been doing, then that will prolong the conflict and eventually grind Russia down. This means Russia will be forced to take all of Ukraine in a full war, not just the special operation in the east, or it will never end.

Tsavo Lion wrote:
how naive! He will make sure the voters r in favor of joining the RF, if there is a referendum.

Erk wrote:...It's not the paper cuts, what Ukraine are doing is gaining time for NATO to get more gear and troops trained in Poland and Germany to mobilize a large force against Russia....

caveat emptor wrote: Clearly, Russians need more regular infantry.

PapaDragon wrote:

Erk wrote:...It's not the paper cuts, what Ukraine are doing is gaining time for NATO to get more gear and troops trained in Poland and Germany to mobilize a large force against Russia....

As much as I would want them to somehow wish this large pinata stuffing into existence I still have to ask where the hell is this large force supposed to come from?

They are already scrapping the bottom of recruitment pool and Ukrainians procreate slower than Pandas

But if they can do it I'm all for it, more the merrier, better to dispose of the problems now than to allow them to metastasize later

Tsavo Lion wrote:NATO sends German howitzer Panzerhaubitze 2000 to Donbass

https://news.yahoo.com/russia-touts-generation-blinding-laser-095255076.html

IMO, Western arms shipments to Ukraine will just prolong this 1/2 war - the Russians have penty of older guns, CM & tanks to offset their losses.

Erk wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Erk wrote:...It's not the paper cuts, what Ukraine are doing is gaining time for NATO to get more gear and troops trained in Poland and Germany to mobilize a large force against Russia....

As much as I would want them to somehow wish this large pinata stuffing into existence I still have to ask where the hell is this large force supposed to come from?

They are already scrapping the bottom of recruitment pool and Ukrainians procreate slower than Pandas

But if they can do it I'm all for it, more the merrier, better to dispose of the problems now than to allow them to metastasize later

How do you know Ukraine is scraping the bottom of the barrel?

Have you not considered that the better soldiers may be off in Poland and Germany being trained to come back with better equipment?

Also, a lot of what Ukraine has been doing in the Donbass is stalling for time, a prolonged battle, hence all the fortifications.

It remains to be seen if better trained and equipped Ukrainians are any more effective.

mnztr wrote:
Even if they send in 80,000 crack troops, how are they gonna deploy with all the heavy weapons they need. Will they ride in with 500-1000 top of line MBTs 1000 IFVs? 100 attack helos and NATO clearing the skies of Russian planes? BTW what I describe is the MINIMUM required  to make an impact on this war. The above may require Russia to deploy more troops and armour but will still not be an overwhelming force. The troops in Donbass are standing tough, the fact they have not broken and fled already is impressive. Maybe some tried and were executed. Who knows.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Tsavo Lion wrote:
how naive! He will make sure the voters r in favor of joining the RF, if there is a referendum.

I can see that you're speaking from US experience like Hawaii or recently Maidan?  Nobody cares about US recognition anymore tho. Cheers

Isos wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Isos wrote:

EU Set to Approve New Military Aid for Ukraine
Macron Tells Zelensky: French Arms Deliveries to Ukraine Will Intensify

He can't atm french army let alone ukrainian one to fight Russia. Another sign to give up for Ukraine.

I am unsure on this comment.  Is it that France has no ability to arm Ukraine due to lack of weapons for French Army or is it because of finances?

All. French soldiers generally buy their gear with their own money because what the army gives them is shitty.

The finances are very low also. The number of hardware available is really small. There are open source data and you can see they bought only small quantity of everything. Very low number of tanks, of missiles... pretty much everything is bought in very low numbers. So it's funny that Macron says he will give Ukraine weapons.

Forbe exemple Russia used 1000 cruise missiles the first week. French stock of Scalp is something like 350 for air force and 50 for the aircraft carrier.

mnztr wrote:
PZH2000 can churn through about 30t of ammo/hour at full chat. not sure how Ukranian logistics can supply that even daily. They are getting 12 guns apparently.