Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16

Zakharchenko was a Donetsk native and a longtime "DNR" guy before DNR even existed (1), and when shit hit the fan in Kiev he rapidly organized his "Oplot" a good while before more known guys showed up. His Donetsk-centered armed resistance to Kiev predated Strelkovs adventure IIRC.

(1) Various Donbass separatist/pro-Russian movements have existed for 30 years, ever since the break-up of the USSR and the many referendums held at the time in the region. Zakharchenko was a figure in the Donetsk movement, purely grassroots politically, and a longtime enemy of the ever more Bandera-leaning Kiev for many years before armed conflict broke out and Russia paid attention to these guys.

Zakharchenko donned fatigues immediately when the right-wing militia in Kiev shat on the February agreement, and later assumed a leading role in the resistance, but was assassinated eventually.

flamming_python wrote:
- Nazism is a thing in the Ukraine but at present time it's incorrect to call the Ukraine any more Nazi than Cuba or Vietnam were communist (at least at first).

A poster in this forum had uploaded a video of Roma girls and women being flogged in broad daylight in Kiev by the average Ukrainian joe.

Several posters posted links, videos of how Ukrainian authorities didn't allow Asian, African students to leave the country along with Ukrainians when the conflict started. Instead students of colour were used as human shields.

Ukraine shelled Luhansk,  Donbass with the sole intention of killing Russians.

Behaviour of this nature towards Russians, people of colour, Jews  is exactly what Nazis prescribe. Ukraine was always a Nazi state. At least communism doesn't call for the de humanizing of communities.

PapaDragon wrote:

Ispan wrote:...So why Strelkov despises the following people?...

Could it be that Girkin (''strelkov'') is simply dipshit?  

He never made General

That could leave a bitter taste in your mouth...

Is it possible that the pantsirs and tors the Ukrainians captured are being used for air defense, and that's why the Russians aren't sending aircraft deeper into Ukrainian territory despite destroying most buks and osas?

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Again doesn't say is these are one of the hundreds meant to be refitted or a brand spanking new vehicle from top to bottom, the claim was they are producing fresh T90's not they are refitting the older versions to M

So what? They had a couple hundred T-90 in storage and if these were converted they came out of that. Not active duty T-90s.
We know they have manufactured at least some new T-90M tanks. Like completely new. In the first year of production it was only like half a dozen. Now probably substantially more.

Russia exported like 900 T-90 tanks to several countries. Who do you think produced them? And that is excluding exports to India. Several hundred of exports to India were wholly made in Russia and way more were built in India from knockdown kits. Which probably initially included entire engines, suspensions, ERA, etc they had to import from Russia and other things like that. India alone operates over two thousand T-90 tanks.

The West's claim is Russia cannot manufacture tanks without their precious electronics and French imported thermal sights. So how come they are building T-90Ms then? The fact is those imports were replaced like 6 years ago at least. And this is publicly available information. You can find it in the Rostec website news archives. Most of the thermal sights which continue to be delivered to Russia after 2014 were for satisfying already signed export contracts to countries which included these systems in their specifications. But retard is as retard goes.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:2. Your link proves nothing, all I see are tanks on a train, they could be from anywhere, there is no indication where those tanks are coming from or when they were made. Those words do not claim these are fresh T90Ms, its talking about the Avoz surrender. Also how do you know those are brand new T90Ms? They have a tarp over them could literally be any tank with an APS.

There are photos of the tanks inside the plant and being loaded on rail. Looking at the roadwheels paint scheme shows these are the same tanks basically. They have the same cammo scheme which is different from uniform dark green color scheme of initial T-90M deliveries.

As to why they are covered with tarps, probably to make identification by satellite assets more difficult. Western intelligence probably looks at these facilities all the time to try to know how many and which type of tanks they are producing. Why make your enemy's job easier?

SeigSoloyvov wrote:There is a difference in reffiting and building from ground up, also if they are producing fresh tanks that warrant questions of why? Russia never stated it planned to make brand new t90m's, the plan was to upgrade these and make T14's.

So the meaning is different.

What is the T14 Super behind schedule that they feel like they need to produce more T90M's? are losses that catastrophic on the front, they are making fresh tanks? or for some strange reason they just decided "Eh lets make new T90M" despite against they never announced that attention in years prior.

Unexpected decisions like building brand new T90M's had to be warranted by something if there are making them and russia current tanks are fine for the ukraine conflict, You don't just burn millions building new tanks that you never for.

No. There were always plans to make a limited number of whole new T-90M tanks. And some were delivered in the initial batch even.
I would not be surprised if they increased the state order for T-90M tanks. Since you do not convert production lines in the middle of a war.
The T-14 is behind schedule. But since when was a new weapon system, especially a revolutionary one like T-14, ever delivered on schedule?

And Russia looks at things long term. If the cost to produce a T-14 is only slightly higher than of a T-90M and the T-14 has potential to be upgraded for like 3 or 4 decades into the future while the T-90 is a dead end of course they will build more T-14s.

limb wrote:Is it possible that the pantsirs and tors the Ukrainians captured are being used for air defense, and that's why the Russians aren't sending aircraft deeper into Ukrainian territory despite destroying most buks and osas?

What Tors and Pantsirs did UA capture?

This video is really high on copium. There is no issue with US stocks of Javelin being depleted they claim, because the US has other weapon systems which can attack tanks. Riight. Good luck sending tanks and attack helicopters to Ukraine, with all the necessary training and logistics those entail. Or the repair facilities and mechanics to allow a sustained effort.

But there are other ATGMs than Javelin in HATO he says dismissively. And then he talks about it for a whole 30s.
He puts a picture of Rafael Spike in the slides. But Israel already specifically said they do not allow the Baltics, or anyone else for that matter, to re-export the Spike to Ukraine. Because it that happens, then Hezbollah in Lebanon will probably get supplied with Kornet, Khrizantema, and maybe even systems like the Tor or Pantsir. Oops. So scratch that, which is basically most of the ATGMs in HATO Europe.

He talks about there still being the TOW and "other" ATGMs. Well dearie. Almost a decade of sending bazillions of ATGMs to ISIL and "moderate rebels" in Syria surreptitiously mean most stocks of old shit like French Milan are depleted. And yes even later versions of the TOW missile ended up being used in large numbers in Syria. For so long and to a point that Iran even reverse engineered all the latest modifications and put them into mass production and made their own versions. Which then were sold to Hezbollah.

Ukraine does not need any Stinger missiles either he claims. Too old anyway. There are other systems the US can use like combat jets. The US has no need for MANPADS. Since they have the Avenger. Which also uses Stinger missiles.
Good luck shooting drones with combat jets and AMRAAM missiles which cost 50x more than the drone like the Saudis are doing in Yemen. Has worked just swell for them. It also remains to be seen where Ukraine will operate these jets from. From which airbases, and with which pilots or mechanics.

Besides the Stinger is too old and obsolete he claims (which it is) so why even produce it anyway (sour grapes).

Pure 100% cope.

But HATO US has the AH-64 and HATO Europe has their own attacks helicopters too. Yep. Like the Tiger. Try looking at how many of those actually work some day. Lol.

And good luck sending gas guzzling M1 tanks from the Polish border 1500kms to the Donbass with no fuel.

flamming_python wrote:I could care less about the smelly gangrene mutants from the Azovstal catacombs to be honest
Russia is treating them with more respect than they deserve. They've even taken the piss, portraying the whole thing as an 'evacuation'.
They took the civilian population captive as shields, fortified a city whose population does not want them to be here, tied down Russian forces, and played this morale boost role in prolonging the war.
And now this 'no filming' condition. What?

Russia should declare the thermobaric blasting of the whole place in 24h, with the only acceptable means of salvation being to crawl out of there on whatever limbs are intact. And if foreign mercs want to stay down there to avoid being filmed - fine, they can savour the high-temperature smell of fuel-air explosives.

By all means of course treat ordinary Ukrainian soldiers who surrender like normal people and in a timely manner elsewhere in the Ukraine - with all due decency and medical assistance if required.

I think they were more interested into getting their hands on the "rumored other guests".

Apparently, the "heroes" do not have the strength to sit out until the morning, they want to eat. The surrender resumed, the night shift began.

People on the ground in Mariupol describe it as „By nightfall, "Azov" climbed from all the cracks, like cockroaches“

https://t.me/s/levigodman

Hopefully the perimeter is tight, sounds like an opportunity for some to "disappear"

Meanwhile in Syria Russia has probably downed multiple Israeli fighters.

Dr.Snufflebug wrote:

limb wrote:Is it possible that the pantsirs and tors the Ukrainians captured are being used for air defense, and that's why the Russians aren't sending aircraft deeper into Ukrainian territory despite destroying most buks and osas?

What Tors and Pantsirs did UA capture?

In the opening phases of the war, there were several tors and pantsirs that were abandoned and then captured.
You can find pics on the Ukraine weapons tracker account on Twitter or Google.

lancelot wrote:
This video is really high on copium. There is no issue with US stocks of Javelin being depleted they claim, because the US has other weapon systems which can attack tanks. Riight. Good luck sending tanks and attack helicopters to Ukraine, with all the necessary training and logistics those entail. Or the repair facilities and mechanics to allow a sustained effort.

But there are other ATGMs than Javelin in HATO he says dismissively. And then he talks about it for a whole 30s.
He puts a picture of Rafael Spike in the slides. But Israel already specifically said they do not allow the Baltics, or anyone else for that matter, to re-export the Spike to Ukraine. Because it that happens, then Hezbollah in Lebanon will probably get supplied with Kornet, Khrizantema, and maybe even systems like the Tor or Pantsir. Oops. So scratch that, which is basically most of the ATGMs in HATO Europe.

He talks about there still being the TOW and "other" ATGMs. Well dearie. Almost a decade of sending bazillions of ATGMs to ISIL and "moderate rebels" in Syria surreptitiously mean most stocks of old shit like French Milan are depleted. And yes even later versions of the TOW missile ended up being used in large numbers in Syria. For so long and to a point that Iran even reverse engineered all the latest modifications and put them into mass production and made their own versions. Which then were sold to Hezbollah.

Ukraine does not need any Stinger missiles either he claims. Too old anyway. There are other systems the US can use like combat jets. The US has no need for MANPADS. Since they have the Avenger. Which also uses Stinger missiles.
Good luck shooting drones with combat jets and AMRAAM missiles which cost 50x more than the drone like the Saudis are doing in Yemen. Has worked just swell for them. It also remains to be seen where Ukraine will operate these jets from. From which airbases, and with which pilots or mechanics.

Besides the Stinger is too old and obsolete he claims (which it is) so why even produce it anyway (sour grapes).

Pure 100% cope.

But HATO US has the AH-64 and HATO Europe has their own attacks helicopters too. Yep. Like the Tiger. Try looking at how many of those actually work some day. Lol.

And good luck sending gas guzzling M1 tanks from the Polish border 1500kms to the Donbass with no fuel.

Well the British still have Brimstone. There's also surface launched hellfires. The French have the Eryx in large stocks. Swedes have the BILL 2. All highly lethal ATGMs.

Also, how would Russian helicopters deal with starstreak missiles which are optically guided?

So NATO VIPs stuck in Azovstal were just propaganda then?

Regular wrote:So NATO VIPs stuck in Azovstal were just propaganda then?

That something they can keep secret for secret exchanges for russian spies.

Or they may be looking at which ones they will keep secrzt and which ones will end up in gulag.

There are still more than 1000 people in Azovstal.

The probability that NATO operatives were there is very big.

Like hated here Strelkov said - Ukraine is plagued with Turkish mentality.

Ukrainians are making fun of DNR guys sleeping on the floor while Azov/Marine POWs are in the beds.

Never in my life I've seen more wretched bile spewing like from them

I'm affraid it's only the case while there are cameras around. But once Mariupol is past and camera go on the front again those nazi will get some hard time.

I think ukrainian militaries aren't hated because Azov was specially created because the reular soldiers were shitty. Bit like SS and regular german soldiers back then. You will notice that like 1945 west is taking those SS again in the west and giving them jobs...