ALAMO wrote:Pzh2k is the best ze wezt has, still it is miles behind the Russian new toys. Modified MSTA already matches it in terms of rate of fire (10pm), but is longer ranged (80km). Koalitsia is another league.
What is this modified MSTA? Details please?
Msta-SM2
The range thing is debatable Russians say it can do 80km, whether that's true or not depends upon what you wanna believe
The 80km range refers to the new PGM that will eventually replace the Krasnopol. In all likelihood the Msta-SM2 or even the earlier versions may be able to use it?
ALAMO wrote:Pzh2k is the best ze wezt has, still it is miles behind the Russian new toys. Modified MSTA already matches it in terms of rate of fire (10pm), but is longer ranged (80km). Koalitsia is another league.
What is this modified MSTA? Details please?
Msta-SM2
The range thing is debatable Russians say it can do 80km, whether that's true or not depends upon what you wanna believe
The 80km range refers to the new PGM that will eventually replace the Krasnopol. In all likelihood the Msta-SM2 or even the earlier versions may be able to use it?
Maybe, the system would need to be capable of firing that far and probs require some smart system to use the shell
Dr.Snufflebug wrote:The Ukrainian "offensive" against uncontested villages in the forests north of Kharkov seem to have come to an abrupt ending, RU forces have finally decided to engage them and stopped them in their tracks.
Next step:
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SeigSoloyvov wrote:Manpads are pretty dam useless against jets they are only good against choppers and low flying drones.
The only one stupid here is you ...
For the sake of others , to understand , not for morons like you , that claimed that russia "lost the war in syria " and they didn't ,
Manpads are pretty dam useless against jets they are only good against choppers and low flying drones.
Not true, manpads can shot down combat air support planes.. like su-25 not just to low flying drones or choopers.. . here showing you how dumb you are.. manpads can defeat combat planes.
the above one got luck and survive a hit , but Russia have lost many of them to manpads. and manpads can shot down low flying combat planes in bombing missions , when they are requested in any emergency to provide close air support to enemy forces.. like in syria ,that one su-35 had to help russian spetnaz , to get rid of terrorist encircling their positions.
russia have lost a several su-25 do to manpads too . and manpads can defeat combat planes flying low altitude , if they are doing recon or trying to help ground troops under attack and when fired from high elevated mountains , those manpads can reach the altitude of any combat plane pretty easily ,not a problem .. and if you read my post ,you will see i spoke also about zones infested with air defenses too like ukraine buks or stella air defenses. or all other provided by nato. su-34 can also be vulnerable to manpadds in cases they doing close air support operations , and for weather conditions /visibility or for ultra precision requirements they need to get closer to the target to hit it , like for example ukraine trenches that require ultra precision to hit their bunkers.
TB'2s also fly outside the range of manpads
Wrong ,the max flight altitude of Tb2 is 5,500m , pretty easy target for majority of manpads.
Your "tactics" are utterly pathetic and frankly only dumb shit some armchair general would say,
the only pathetic one here is you , the idiot that claimed that russia was losing in syria years ago. and that now claim TB2 can fly above manpads range. or that manpads are useless vs combat jets, not they not , they can shot down low flying planes providing close air support ,which is what russia needs, to protect their land forces. if there is no su-25 near ,many other combat planes can be used in an emergency to provide close air support to ground troops.. if there is an emergency. in syria actually migs-29 and migs-21 were shot down by manpads, in many emergencies.
Example TB-2 will strike at heights of about 25000k, the igla russia best manpad has a max range and at max range MANPADS are very ineffective, of 21000k. It makes it impossible for manpads to deal with them you need things like tors for.
wrong TB2 max altitude is 5,500m.. the only impossible thing here is to discuss an intelligence conversation with very low iq arm chair fake experts in military like you.
Your so ignorant and stupid about the reality of war, the crap you just spouted shows that, do yourself a favor and stop talking like you have even have a remote idea of the bs your talking about
The only fool ignorant is you.. Everyone of your points is wrong .
Russia is losing many planes ,because they don't have air superiority at all , neither domination , in zones infested with very advanced manpads and air defenses. which is what i told , idiot. not just manpads. air defenses like buks ,stela , ukraine have lots of them. NATO manpads can reach 8km altitude and with other tricks can extend that range . just how houthis in yemen shot down american f-15s in yemen? idiot..
and also what will happened if manpads are used in elevated positions like mountains? can the manpads negate the altitude limitations of their reach , firing them from mountains? of course it can.
What i told ,Mr Fool ,is that those su-25 , or any other combat plane should not be used to attack the ground with so many manpads and other air defenses.. that ukraine have.. that instead those combat planes , should be used as air carriers of strike drones or drones that guide artillery , that way the drones are deployed exactly in the place they need to be..AND they ready to destroy their targets BEFORE the manpads or air defenses are ready to fire back. and so avoid being shot down while trying to reach the combat zone , if the drones lets say orlan 10 ,manage to fire all their missiles before is show down ,then it will be mission accomplished , because their targets will be destroyed first.. Just ONE cheap orlan-10 can be used to disable a super expansive s-300 , if the tactics are correct . every unit of combat of russia should be fighting in combined arms operations with drones , whether is soldiers on foot , or tanks, or combat planes , or hellicopters.. because you can use cheap drones ,to take the hits or provide real time information of the battlefield of everything that move.
So first an su-25 fly very fast and relative low , to recon for potential targets to bomb.. as soon pilot detect a column of tanks or artillery or air defenses ,then a second su-25 following from distance is told where to deploy their strike drones , so they destroy any tank column or artillery position or air defenses.. so this is much more safer ,that ask an su-25 to dive into enemy positions and keep flying there with everyone trying to shoot it down, and do close air support. the idea is to give a much higher chance to combat planes escape any air defense and manpads attacks unharmed.. if the plane just pass flying very fast leaving the zone , and the strike drones will take care of any s-300 , if there is any near. or use kamikazi drones instead that are even cheaper . to destroy artillery positions with precision . in syria , there are videos of russian su-34 being fired manpads.. evading them , because was used many times for close air support. and for close air support those planes need to fly lower altitude .
Last edited by Vann7 on Thu May 19, 2022 10:14 am; edited 4 times in total
"wrong TB2 max altitude is 5,500m.. the only impossible thing here is to discuss an intelligence conversation with very low iq arm chair fake experts in military like you"
What a complete and utter moron.
You don't even know the difference between ft and m lol
If you wanna go by m
then for TB its 7,600 m not your claimed 5.500 m
Verba's (newest manpad not igla that was a typo on my end"
Max range is 4572 m which is even below your falsely claimed 5.500 m lawls
Before you try and insult someone, learn basic mathematical units all you di was show yourself out to be an uneducated imbecile, congrats.
Math must be hard for you
Mna[ads also can only shoot down an su-25 if the SU=25 attempts to go in very low if it stays high up which it can and drop bombs manpads cannot touch it
SeigSoloyvov wrote:"wrong TB2 max altitude is 5,500m.. the only impossible thing here is to discuss an intelligence conversation with very low iq arm chair fake experts in military like you"
What a complete and utter moron.
You don't even know the difference between ft and m lol
If you wanna go by m
then for TB its 7,600 m not your claimed 5.500 m
Verba's (newest manpad not igla that was a typo on my end"
Max range is 4572 m which is even below your falsely claimed 5.500 m lawls
Before you try and insult someone, learn basic mathematical units all you di was show yourself out to be an uneducated imbecile, congrats.
Math must be hard for you
Mna[ads also can only shoot down an su-25 if the SU=25 attempts to go in very low if it stays high up which it can and drop bombs manpads cannot touch it
before saying idiotic things like russia lost in syria , or that manpads are useless against combat planes , better educate yourself , before saying any retarded thing.
most losses in syria of su-25 ,su-24 and mig-29 and mig -21 were against rebels manpads.. because the syrian rebels don't have air defenses , only manpads.. in ukraine is not different , russia lost combat planes doing air support operations to ukrainian manpads and one su-25 got lucky and not crashed after being hit.. so combat planes using for striking mobile targets in ground or that require precision like trenches are, need to fly low within manpad range.
dear god Vann is even dumber than I thought....Rebels never shot down a MIG-29 Russians lose those cause of an old carrier and their own incompetence, half of the others claims you also made are false.
I am done with you, this is just too pathetic to watch.
Dr.Snufflebug wrote:The Ukrainian "offensive" against uncontested villages in the forests north of Kharkov seem to have come to an abrupt ending, RU forces have finally decided to engage them and stopped them in their tracks.
I did tell ya's
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But that bit about the Russian helicopter crashed... It was destroyed and it wasn't an accident.
The Orcs claim to have shot it down, but they also claim to have sunk the Moskva too... accident sounds more convincing.
Per MSNBC it was the ghost of Chicken Kiev flying a Henschel HS 123 who destroyed the helicopter, sank the entire Black Sea Fleet and launched airstrikes that reduced all of Russia's cities west of the Urals to rubble. One should not trust Rachel Madcow after her daily ingestion of copium.
The ghost of the Ghost of Kiev?
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Actually he has been very Russia friendly so far... no sanctions... allowing Russian ships back to Black Sea home port, but blocking HATO ships from entering, putting a small spanner in the works for Finland and Sweden... they are going to join but he is going to get something out of it too... and why not?
Please Garry, for the nth time, he is NOT allowing Russian military ships (home ported in the Black Sea or not) nor anyone else's military ships through, only his own. He is being totally fair, the only way to do it.
how naive! He will make sure the voters r in favor of joining the RF, if there is a referendum.
Not naive at all.... actually democratic... and practical... they get to choose how to live.
many will, by voting with their feet.
The Cherson area may get just annexed w/o any such "ceremonies". "Denazification" is needed, but it's being used as a convinient excuse, as was GWOT in the ME, to grab & plunder Ukraine by Russian oligarchs & restore the strategic depth of the post Soviet European Russia.
Plunder what I must ask... the place was a stagnent shithole going nowhere...
besides fertie soil, there r big deposits of lithuim, coal, iron ore (largest in the word) + many other businesses/industries that coud be revived.
what matters is that the RF recognises them as L/DNR before annexation;
They already did. They recognised them and gave Kiev an ultimatum to withdraw from Donbass territory and cease shelling said region within 24 hours... which expired and then Russia launched its special operation.
now it's Cherson, Nikolaev & later Odessa's regions turn. They'll make a corridor to Transnistria & form the new Novorossia.
Russia may just say that the USSR was disbanded illegaly & as a legal inheritor she is taking parts of Ukraine back. The West won't recognize any of it anyway.
Russia can just point to Kosovo and international law that essentially any region the people can hold a referendum and declare independence if they wish and countries can recognise that or not.
they used that argument already! Perhaps with Ukr. ports blocked & resulting shortage of grain on the market, the West will be pressured to tell Kiev to yeild to RF demands in order to avoid hunger induced crises elsewhere. Su-25s were shot down by MANPADs in Afghanistan, Chechnya & Caucasus. A few Su-24s were also lost/damaged by MANPADs in C. Asia, Libya, Syria & Ukraine.
NATO Members at Odds Over Buildup in E. Europe Turkey Blocks Start of Talks on Sweden, Finland's NATO Bids Biden Reverses Course on Shipping Long-Range Rockets to Ukraine https://www.antiwar.com/
Being treated rather well and fast justice is good too.
Mind you I'm not sure that images like this should be allowed out before the rest surrender in Azovstal. But since they have been destroying phones laptops etc there maybe they wont see them.
₦₳V????????é???????? @Navsteva · 2h "FSB officers escort Denis Muryga, deputy commander of the Aidar national battalion, to the Leninsky District Court of Rostov-on-Don" #denazification
Spriteer @spriteer_774400 · 2h The Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs put Velichko and Nemichev, commanders of the Azov National Battalion, on the wanted list.
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Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Wow, all of that text because the cheap mass-produced model airplane that is the Orlan-10 has cheap off-the-shelf electronics and doesn't come with space lasers installed.
No more orlan-10 drones for russia , if they are under sanctions. what camera they going to use now, soviet cameras from the 70s ? and if they find to copy one from the west , can't mass produce them. doomed either way. Will not be surprising if this problems with orlan-10 development also exist in their orion drones too. that russia military industry have been unable to produce alternative to western controlled technology and so is very limited the production of drones that russia can do with its own domestic and inferior electronics.
There are 4-5 companies making high-end CCDs and CMOS sensors in Russia, and several making world class optics (Schwabe being the #1, I guess). Over the last decade, incredible amounts of money has been poured into the Russian hi-tech defense industry.
As I said, the Orlan-10 is not a good indicator to go by. It is a basic, cheap expendable surveillance drone using off the shelf electronics, a drone that also varies quite a lot between batches, depending on what's cheaper for the day. If they run out of off-the-shelf electronics, they'll use domestic ditto. If they run out of cheap Japanese model airplane engines (which it uses), they'll use domestic ditto. That they use Japanese model airplane engines doesn't mean that simple model airplane engines are some kind of alien technology to Russia... It only means it's so far been cheaper to grab what's already on the shelves. Most of the cost of the Orlan-10 goes into the control units and software. The model airplane itself is cheap.
It is funny that you mention Orion/Inokhodets though, because the production bottleneck there wasn't the electronics, but --- simple aviation piston engines in the 100hp class. Not because Russia has been so backwards it couldn't develop and produce such incredible marvels of technology, but because they've always been available and cheap off the shelf from Rotax et al, and no domestic manufacturers had any incentive to go into that particular niche market segment. Until just now, due to sanctions etc.
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But that bit about the Russian helicopter crashed... It was destroyed and it wasn't an accident.
The Orcs claim to have shot it down, but they also claim to have sunk the Moskva too... accident sounds more convincing.
Per MSNBC it was the ghost of Chicken Kiev flying a Henschel HS 123 who destroyed the helicopter, sank the entire Black Sea Fleet and launched airstrikes that reduced all of Russia's cities west of the Urals to rubble. One should not trust Rachel Madcow after her daily ingestion of copium.
The ghost of the Ghost of Kiev?
Negative, the ghost of the ghost to the post flies a Fiesler Storch and has led the Ukrainian wehrmacht to within 12 miles of Moscow. Anderson Cooper on CNN confirmed this, and the story makes sense because Brian Williams said he was the copilot. . . .
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The conflict has NOT affected Russia's economy adversely, at all. Instead, America's economic nuke strike has ensured a measure of global economic destruction, has precisely nuked global confidence in American commons and left Russia as one of the fastest growing major econ in the world. Masterful...
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SeigSoloyvov
Lots of damaged equipment.
