Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22

Mercouris is awesome but yeah he has his biases, and his downplaying of the airbase attack is silly imo it should be admitted when Russia gets a bloody nose. Learn from it, and move forward. But I understand that loves are at stake and you cant be 100 percent transparent when you at in a defacto state of war.

But in spite of this and a couple other things Mercouris is extremely insightful and he has a classic british charm not seen as much as it once was. He is totally right about this blocking of Russian citizens from travel. It is stupid and wrong. Even though I was a very young kid at the very end of the cold war in the late 80s/90s I remember parents and others discussing say during Olympic games of Russians asking for asylum and other things of this kind. Even at say five or six this made a profound (kids are smarter than many adults give credit for) effect on my thinking and immediately impressed on me that the place the Olympians were fleeing from was bad.

Now seeing this it is extremely ironic. The neolib/neocon establishment is manifestly wicked.

TMA1 wrote:Mercouris is awesome but yeah he has his biases, and his downplaying of the airbase attack is silly imo it should be admitted when Russia gets a bloody nose. Learn from it, and move forward. But I understand that loves are at stake and you cant be 100 percent transparent when you at in a defacto state of war.

But in spite of this and a couple other things Mercouris is extremely insightful and he has a classic british charm not seen as much as it once was. He is totally right about this blocking of Russian citizens from travel. It is stupid and wrong. Even though I was a very young kid at the very end of the cold war in the late 80s/90s I remember parents and others discussing say during Olympic games of Russians asking for asylum and other things of this kind. Even at say five or six this made a profound (kids are smarter than many adults give credit for) effect on my thinking and immediately impressed on me that the place the Olympians were fleeing from was bad.

Now seeing this it is extremely ironic. The neolib/neocon establishment is manifestly wicked.

In those times it was the USSR/Eastern Bloc which had restrictions on who could travel there. It was possible of course as part of organized tour groups, or as students, or on business but intelligence agencies kept tabs on foreigners present in the country and in general the country was closed off.
For Soviet citizens, travelling abroad was not something easy and typically only as far as say Bulgaria or East Germany for holidays. Otherwise you better have a good reason for travelling; you were a scientist, an athlete, journalist or government official perhaps.

Now I see the roles reversing in a sense.
The EU and US are creating an atmosphere of suspicion against Russians arriving on their territory, and now the EU wants to prohibit them coming as tourists entirely. Their work opportunities are being curtailed, they are not trusted for important positions. And this applies to Russians living there. It doesn't make a difference to Russians living in Russia or Russian society; putting 'pressure' on Russia is just the given excuse
Now while EU and US citizens for now are free to travel to Russia without prohibition from their own governments, I can easily imagine hurdles being set up or questions being raised in the future too. There are already witch hunts for Russian bots, Russian agents, Russian apologists and it may be a matter of time until spending time in Russia can lead to being monitored by one's own intelligence services, or leading to worse career prospects.

flamming_python wrote:
In those times it was the USSR/Eastern Bloc which had restrictions on who could travel there. It was possible of course as part of organized tour groups, or as students, or on business but intelligence agencies kept tabs on foreigners present in the country and in general the country was closed off.
For Soviet citizens, travelling abroad was not something easy and typically only as far as say Bulgaria or East Germany for holidays. Otherwise you better have a good reason for travelling; you were a scientist, an athlete, journalist or government official perhaps.

Now I see the roles reversing in a sense.
The EU and US are creating an atmosphere of suspicion against Russians arriving on their territory, and now the EU wants to prohibit them coming as tourists entirely. Their work opportunities are being curtailed, they are not trusted for important positions. And this applies to Russians living there. It doesn't make a difference to Russians living in Russia or Russian society; putting 'pressure' on Russia is just the given excuse
Now while EU and US citizens for now are free to travel to Russia without prohibition from their own governments, I can easily imagine hurdles being set up or questions being raised in the future too. There are already witch hunts for Russian bots, Russian agents, Russian apologists and it may be a matter of time until spending time in Russia can lead to being monitored by one's own intelligence services, or leading to worse career prospects.

Things are very dark in the west right now. I won't mention his name because as a professor he is useless and as a man he is even worse, he used to know better but in pursuit of funding for his research he whored himself out to the cheerleader for war crowd, but when this thing began he said pretty much the following, "there is a red and brown alliance (an allusion to the long debunked horse shoe theory) that is fueled by emotion and misiniformation (ironically enough he started his support of Ukronazis with Winter on Fire and telling people how upset it made him and he spent the next six months spewing propaganda on all his social media outlets) and that they want to sacrifice liberal democracy on the altar of political expediency. We must not let them, we must stand up to them. Democracy must be vigilant.

Now I know that's a mouthful, but that shitbag wants to use this thing to silence the peace movement, small as it is in America, and stifle dissent. This whole thing, for the western power system has three aims

1. Make Europe dependent on American gas
2. Sever Russia from Europe
3. Stifle dissent here at home in the name of defending "democracy"

I would not be surprised at all if I wasn't being monitored by our intel apparat as it now and apart from forums like this I don't feel safe in questioning this war which is, as an American, one of the worst things about this war in that this proxy war we have seen that the constitution and bill of rights are merely sayings that are written on the wall but not things that are protected if you invoke those rights to question this very lucrative scam that Wall Street, the MIC, and their shills in the "news" media and in the halls of power are trying to cash in on at the expense of Russian and Ukrainian lives and our pocket books.

Don't send a warship near the coastline unless you plan to erase the coastline

Pretty obvious who is over reacting and needs a bitch slap... we have no idea where the ship was even operating and therefore no idea how close it was to any coastline.

...but lets not let facts get in the way of a good whine.

Garry has nothing to do with being a mean person

Being negligent is okay, if your young , or have no responsibility

Ark... to be found negligent you have to know what actually happened in the first place... jumping around claiming missile attack or meteorite is a pointless venting of your spleen that pisses the rest of us off.

The fact is it is very unlikely to have been an attack by Kiev of any sort, and their claims to the contrary should be stacked up with their other claims and statements and then totally ignored for the bullshit they are.

There are literally millions of potential targets the Orcs could try to attack and you say it is negligence to let the Orcs attack any of those targets... with HATO assistance they can go through all those potential targets and pick the easiest, so what you are saying is that the competent commander will stop killing Orcs and call up millions more Russian soldiers so they can defend all the targets the Orcs MIGHT want to attack and claim victory.

Congratulations... you just enabled the orcs to achieve what they wanted... Russia going on the defensive and stop killing Orcs... how long could they do that?

The direct result is a 1-2 year war becomes the 100 years war... amazing.

But not at this level, and not after 30 years of seeing the same shit happen again and again and again

You don't have to go to a military academy to avoid the shit we've seen

Accidents happen... Hurricanes happen as Mir pointed out... you can minimise the risk but accidents will continue to happen... and as frustrating as it might sound there is nothing you can do to stop that.

Thanks to efforts of ukrop apes and Russian Navy we now know what that class of ships should not be used for

The Atlant (Atlas) class was the cheap backup in case the more ambitious and expensive Orlan class was a failure... it wasn't.

What they should have done was upgrade them with naval TOR, but they were saving money going half arsed.

and? I never denied there are Nazi's in the army, I merely said to think every single one is, just makes you a fool.

And if the soldiers around them don't mind fighting with and for nazis then they shouldn't mind being branded nazis and treated as such.

Even the nazis wanting to surrender are treated decently.

And you would be saying the same thing when Ukraine takes out the Crimean bridge with the full support of NATO.

Why are you so sure this fire and explosions at a military airfield was an Orc attack?

Russia has already said it would hit back hard at the "decision making structures" if Russian territory is attacked... therefore...

If the Orcs want to take on that bridge I would love to see them try because the consequences will be devastating for the current political structure of the Kiev government.

Why would Russia refrain from removing them if they are that stupid?

If they continue to lose troops on the front line then they are useful, but attacking targets in Russia and they become a problem that should be straight forward to deal with by removing...

A short video about Rook´s working and look what is hiding at their air base.

I see S-350s...

For those saying the grom-2 ballistic missile doesn't exist, why are there photos of its TEL from 2020?

It does exist... it is a longer range Tochka that clearly they want to be an Iskander equivalent.

Iskander is the ground launched Kinzhal that has sensors on board to detect radar and IR sources to evade air defence systems for which it manouvers and releases jammers and decoys to evade interception... what it is not is it is not radar invisible... it is fast and it actively manouvers to avoid approaching missiles.

The claim that the craters on the airfield in Crimea was a Grom-2 ignores the fact that they would have detected it and heard it... and its shorter range means it is slower than iskander too.

Why does the Russian MoD keep announcing "offensives" around nikolaev krivoy rog this last month, but little to no ground is taken?

AFAIK the offensives they mention are Orc offensives which are generally halted and the driven back with enormous loss of life on the Orcs side because of their vulnerability to artillery...

MoD updates keep announcing the suppression of D-30 batteries. Shouldnt the Ukrainians have already run out of ammo for them already?

Eastern european countries make 122mm shells don't they? Plus when you fire one or two shells before having to move or run away you don't end up using as much ammo as the enemy does.

Anyway with all the "new laundry money" they can now probably afford to fund this project.

Their problem is they are trying to deal with corruption by pouring more money into the broken system... more money just means more money missing and is unlikely to result in anything actually getting funded... like trying to fix a sieve by pumping more water into it than there are holes in the sieve for the water to escape from it.

Not a good idea unless you have a problem of having too much water you don't know what to do with.

War between India and China benefits Russia as well. Also a war between Iran and Turkey.

Not even close... only the US benefits from division and war and hate.

But Russia will have to disintegrate the U.S as well.

Don't you see that wars between Turkey and Iran and China and India and Russia and anyone benefits the US and leads to them getting stronger by weakening their opposition.

A sudden outbreak of peace around the world would be catastrophic for the US...

What we do know for a fact is that NO ONE saw any missiles on that day.

I have been carefully studying that image for quite a few hours since I first saw it and I can say there is only one missile, but that one is safely based in New Zealand... It has neither the range nor the potential to reach that docking port...

Because civilians are sp good at spotting ballistic missiles flying at mach 4+

A boom coming from the sky before anything is burning and any explosions are heard is rather distinctive... and the trajectory of a missile means it covers a much larger area than any explosion from an impact... it is the same with a rifle shot... the physical area you hear the crack of the supersonic bullet is much greater than the area you hear the sound of the shot being fired.... and they are distinctly different... an explosion is a boom sound while a supersonic shockwave from a supersonic object is more of a crack than a boom.

Show me radar data and close up pics of the blast site and then there will be enough evidence to prove or disprove that it was a missile

The Russians have the radar data and they say it was not a missile or aircraft attack.

However th that you expect me to believe without question that some random person easily see with a naked eye ballistic missiles falling at 1500m/s is more intellectually insulting.

You expect the air defences of the Crimea ignored a missile travelling at least 300km... you do understand that as well as the air defences at the air field which should be substantial, that area will be covered in interlocking air defence systems protecting dozens of locations including the naval HQ for the Russian Black Sea Fleet... it is insulting you think they were all asleep or had their radars turned off.

Especially when the video showing two major explosions also showed smoke from extensive fires that had clearly been burning for some time so at least four craters and two explosions on video so what... an attack by two missiles and then a delay while fires started and burned for a bit and then two more missiles which we don't see or hear any sonic booms of incoming missiles for on the video either BTW... so you are saying not only did they not turn on the AD systems to defend the airfield they kept them turned off after it was clearly a missile attack...

Makes me wonder why Kievs forces are not at the gates of Moscow by now... reality is not a barrier to these guys... they can do anything and say anything...

But that is the real problem... you believe everything they say even when the available evidence suggests it is not possible.

At last they're being honest about things.

I felt the same about Trump as president... he flip flopped and he lied and did all sorts of bad things, but he did them out in the open and the US media called him out on it. He didn't do anything anywhere near as bad as many presidents have done before him... he was just open about it and the US media didn't hide anything... in fact they made shit up to try to make him look worse, but really they are idiots and have no imagination so claims he had russian prostitutes pissing on him makes me think that Bill Clinton probably paid for that to happen to him... wonder if he got Boris drunk and let him do it to Bill too...

Mercouris is awesome but yeah he has his biases, and his downplaying of the airbase attack is silly imo it should be admitted when Russia gets a bloody nose. Learn from it, and move forward. But I understand that loves are at stake and you cant be 100 percent transparent when you at in a defacto state of war.

They need to establish what exactly happened first, but lack of radar tracks of missiles or bombs suggests the most likely situation was an accident.

Even at say five or six this made a profound (kids are smarter than many adults give credit for) effect on my thinking and immediately impressed on me that the place the Olympians were fleeing from was bad.

Have you heard of buyers regret...

When the sales and marketing team do an amazing job and get you to shell out your hard earned cash but when you get it home it was not everything you were promised... then add in to that no one speaks your language and you will get hostile treatment as soon as they know you are a Russian because they will of course think you are a spy.

The irony is that Soviet athletes probably get better treatment than most western civilians so their lives were hardly hard... in fact under communism athletes were given military ranks and the better and more successful you were the better the rank you earned so while you wont make millions of dollars in endorsements... you do get a pension for life.

Might shock you but here in New Zealand I often come across Americans who were sick of the way American society was going and left to move to New Zealand... we speak the same language and the culture is not totally different...

I would not be surprised at all if I wasn't being monitored by our intel apparat as it now and apart from forums like this I don't feel safe in questioning this war which is, as an American, one of the worst things about this war in that this proxy war we have seen that the constitution and bill of rights are merely sayings that are written on the wall but not things that are protected if you invoke those rights to question this very lucrative scam that Wall Street, the MIC, and their shills in the "news" media and in the halls of power are trying to cash in on at the expense of Russian and Ukrainian lives and our pocket books.

Politicians love wars... cold or hot... because they justify giving themselves extra powers... the reason Julian Assange was jumped on so hard was that he was revealing their dirty secrets... the fact that it was the truth make it the problem that it was... what sort of true democracy is afraid of the truth and will destroy a man so they can continue to commit crimes like that.

What the west needs is a free press that is interested in the truth and not controlled by rich powerful families who are actually happy with the way things are because the way things are made them rich and they could eliminate or buy up any competition.

The whole purpose of HATO is to make Russia the enemy to keep Russia and the EU from becoming a trading block, because if that happened why would the EU need the US to tell it what to do?

The irony is that the US wants the EU to give up cheap reliable Russian gas that will damage their economies and make the cost of living higher for everyone in the EU to make the EU blame Russia... Eu vs Russia and India vs China... that is their game.

Russias game is multipolar... Russia would be a pole, but so would the US, and the EU and China and India and every other country or group of countries if they want... each looking out for their own interests but not at the expense of everyone else.

No wonder the US hates them, because if they get what they want who needs the US?

GarryB wrote:The whole purpose of HATO is to make Russia the enemy to keep Russia and the EU from becoming a trading block, because if that happened why would the EU need the US to tell it what to do?

The irony is that the US wants the EU to give up cheap reliable Russian gas that will damage their economies and make the cost of living higher for everyone in the EU to make the EU blame Russia... Eu vs Russia and India vs China... that is their game.
Russias game is multipolar... Russia would be a pole, but so would the US, and the EU and China and India and every other country or group of countries if they want... each looking out for their own interests but not at the expense of everyone else.
No wonder the US hates them, because if they get what they want who needs the US?

It is even worse than that.
When Putin, Schroeder and Chirac were talking about "an open trade sphere from Lisbon to Vladivostok" they de facto crushed the whole foundations of US hegemony.
An open trade space like that would absorb in an obvious way China, and attract the whole Asia and Africa, while the Middle East would have been seriously interested.
A mighty (no sarcasm) US Navy would become useless, as most trading corridors would have been made by train via Russian wastelands, along NSR, ie. inside the Russian EEZ, or via sea routes that are kind of internal for the involved countries.
With the potential to control the cargo flow at a worldwide level fading away, trillions invested in the hegemon status and exploiting the possibilities to control maritime traffic with a waste net of bases and enormous in size blue water navy would have become absolutely useless, as the only traffic they would have been able to control at the moment, would have been the one coming in/out of the USA. What is irrelevant at the moment, because as we can see from the other stats, the US isn't even registered in the top 10 world harbours, and hardly in the top 20  
When in 2003, again, the same trio condemned the invasion of Iraq creating an unprecedented situation, the red light was not only switched of for the hegemon, but the sirens started either.
The process of destabilization of the UE started seriously back there, and as in a case of any empire, it was done from inside.

So far the Ukrs have made "extensive" use of the HIMARS MLRS and it has served them well as a propaganda tool - even though they refrained from attacking military targets and rather chose civilians and the famous bridge and a dam wall as targets.

This time around the "attack" on Saki was credited towards the "indigenous" Grim-2 missile system which looks somewhat similar to the Iskander. Now I don't want to jinks it, but if this is true, why haven't they followed it up with another Grim-2 attack? If it was me I would have made an attack on Sevastopol or the Crimean Bridge or some other valuable target, just to keep the propaganda machine going.

OR did they only manage to fund 2 to 3 missiles with all that new money coming in? If I had an invisible missile that is unstoppable - I would make it rain.

Singular transform wrote " Maybe the missile is not visible because there is no missile, did you considered this option? " yes I considered the option of accident or sabotage and dummy planes . I think it important for everyone to consider possibilities , but not allow rumours that benefit the other side . I did not talk about accident , since I thought that would give too much weight to missile idea ! And that may  be a rumour that benefits the other side . Since we may not want the world to know about an attack just yet . Since it forces a retaliation and escalation . But since you wanted me to consider an accident : ( assuming  photo genuine , which I doubt )  the dispersion of Ammo should also be outside perimeter of airport , if caused by accidental explosion and dispersion . Also a fact that no AD missile fired , but this could be because ( amongst other reasons ) that most planes in airport were dummy . And it was not considered important to waste missiles . This may explain why some planes within blast radius , were in one piece and others burnt to ash ! The important info that government must tell people : first is that if there was an attack , second that who did it and last if damage and loss of life occurred . People have a right to this info . It is not property of military or politician .

@ Nomadski

We will probably never know the truth as it quite normal for any government to pull a veil of secrecy over these kind of operations.
Same with the Moskva disaster.

Maybe you are right , we will never know . But people should know , to prepare themselves against an enemy . Not be misguided by minority interest groups . Say if there were missiles of American manufacture , fired by American operators that killed many Russians , then Russian people should know . Same as Iranian people should know if American missiles fired by special forces in Iran killed technicians . Then neither Russians or Iranian people ( not liberal elite in power ) will waste time with negotiations or accommodating a determined chronic enemy .

The reaction of the various layers of society in the EU demonstrates that they do not deserve any sympathy. They
bent over and took it from Uncle Scumbag willingly. They would rather hate Russians for saving Russians in some
ethno-fascist toilet like "Ukraine" (which they helped establish in 2004 and 2014) than to have affordable energy
for their economy and for their heating.

The totalitarian restrictions on the information space and travel are natural for the bloody hypocrites in the west.
Western "values" are a total sham.

kvs wrote:The reaction of the various layers of society in the EU demonstrates that they do not deserve any sympathy.   They
bent over and took it from Uncle Scumbag willingly.   They would rather hate Russians for saving Russians in some
ethno-fascist toilet like "Ukraine" (which they helped establish in 2004 and 2014) than to have affordable energy
for their economy and for their heating.  

The totalitarian restrictions on the information space and travel are natural for the bloody hypocrites in the west.  
Western "values" are a total sham.

You can safely replace "toilet" with sewer - and that goes for the EU as well.

kvs wrote:The reaction of the various layers of society in the EU demonstrates that they do not deserve any sympathy.   They
bent over and took it from Uncle Scumbag willingly.   They would rather hate Russians for saving Russians in some
ethno-fascist toilet like "Ukraine" (which they helped establish in 2004 and 2014) than to have affordable energy
for their economy and for their heating.  

The totalitarian restrictions on the information space and travel are natural for the bloody hypocrites in the west.  
Western "values" are a total sham.

Northern Europe has slid back into open racism with incredible ease, and sadly that disease is not getting better but only spreading to other countries, that were funnily enough also despised, like South Europe, now increasingly arrogant and Russophobic too, like the last Vovan&Lexus prank to Madrid's clown-mayor shows. Europe is screwed on so many levels it is mind blowing.

ucmvulcan wrote:I would not be surprised at all if I wasn't being monitored by our intel apparat as it now and apart from forums like this I don't feel safe in questioning this war which is, as an American, one of the worst things about this war in that this proxy war we have seen that the constitution and bill of rights are merely sayings that are written on the wall but not things that are protected if you invoke those rights to question this very lucrative scam that Wall Street, the MIC, and their shills in the "news" media and in the halls of power are trying to cash in on at the expense of Russian and Ukrainian lives and our pocket books.

Who needs you ucmvulcan?

I don't know if this forum is being monitored or not, but it's likely no big deal either way unless you've chosen politics as a career.. and even then there are niches you can fulfill.

They can see that no-one here is an actual Russian agent, just a bunch of bozos discussing world events and calling out cringe Western propaganda online. Actual Russian agents have better things to do.

But the aura of suspicion does fall down for real on Russian citizens now living abroad, and possibly soon EU/US citizens that have been living in Russia, or still doing business in Russia, or having too many Russian friends from Russia.

Battle for #Peski situation as of 13:00 August 13, 2022 by @rybar:

Fighters of the "Somali" battalion of the DPR People´s Militia managed to break the AFU defense in the northwestern part of the Peski settlement, where there were still pockets of AFU resistance. Closer to nightfall, footage emerged from the development behind the House of Culture, confirming the advance of the advancing forces.

At noon, the Defense Ministry reported the full capture of the settlement. Formally, the AFU can still control several multi-story buildings along Stepnaya Street on the northwestern outskirts of Peski, but even so, their mopping up is a matter of the near future.

In fact, we can now speak of the successful completion of the battle for Peski and the transition of the settlement, which has been one of the main nodes of Ukrainian defense at the site since 2014, to the control of the DPR People´s Militia.

In addition to the DPR's competent artillery personnel played a huge role in the storming of the settlement. It continuously hit Ukrainian formations and destroyed incoming reinforcements. The heavy TOS-1A Solntepek flamethrower systems hit fortified positions and opened the way for the advancing units.

The capture of Peski will allow the offensive to advance northward toward Vodyanye to reach Avdeevka from the west. There is also an opportunity to move northwest toward Pervomayskoye and Karlovka.

If I recall from a post earlier, shutting down the npp will prevent any potential radiation contamination in the event of a successful hit. so why not just turn off the entire facility?

PhSt wrote:

https://t.me/intelslava/35419

If I recall from a post earlier, shutting down the npp will prevent any potential radiation contamination in the event of a successful hit. so why not just turn off the entire facility?

Since the power plant is still servicing Kiev regime power consumption, this is a good idea. Let eat their own shit.

kvs wrote:
Since the power plant is still servicing Kiev regime power consumption, this is a good idea.   Let eat their own shit.

now that you mention it, Russia should seriously consider kalibrating non-nuclear power stations across Pukraine. NATzO can supply them with power at their own expense

Arrow wrote:Strelkov is crying again about the very slow progress of the Russian forces and militia in the Donbas.

https://m.vk.com/wall347260249_660865

Under his command they were indeed progressing much faster... in the opposite direction

So he should really STFU already

PhSt wrote:

kvs wrote:
Since the power plant is still servicing Kiev regime power consumption, this is a good idea.   Let eat their own shit.

now that you mention it, Russia should seriously consider kalibrating non-nuclear power stations across Pukraine. NATzO can supply them with power at their own expense

Russia needs to limit the humanitarian catastrophe aspect. In the case of the NPP, it is the Kiev regime that is doing the shelling. If Russia
attacks power plants it will be attacking civilians.

I recall the noise about looming humanitarian catastrophe in the Sumy region and other parts that Russia moved into at the beginning of the operation.
After Russia withdrew this noise disappeared.

Mir wrote:

kvs wrote:The reaction of the various layers of society in the EU demonstrates that they do not deserve any sympathy.   They
bent over and took it from Uncle Scumbag willingly.   They would rather hate Russians for saving Russians in some
ethno-fascist toilet like "Ukraine" (which they helped establish in 2004 and 2014) than to have affordable energy
for their economy and for their heating.  

The totalitarian restrictions on the information space and travel are natural for the bloody hypocrites in the west.  
Western "values" are a total sham.

You can safely replace "toilet" with sewer - and that goes for the EU as well.

Blah blah blah
You, my bros, have one serious disadvantage.
None of you live in Europe, so your perspective can be both a clear sober and fooling.
Europe is in a process of constant changes like forever, while the ones applied in the last 50 years are not the ones the Europeans like.
Two days ago, we have morned Jean-Jaques Sempre.
He was a cartoonist who covered the Rene Goscinny novels.
Goscinny was a creator of Asterix&Obelix Gall characters, but not worse than that - he has created a Nicolaus series of books for kids.
Nicolaus was a little child living in France in a grooming the 50-60s, and just reading that to your kids, one realizes what a bloody disaster is happening here, on this tiny peninsula at the end of Russia, as Mao Tse Tung said once ...
If you consider that the shit is happening in your neighborhood, well folks, you are all wrong.
That shit is global.
I'm just back from Croatia, with a sad memory of hotels, and pensions&restauratns in a first-class location&seawiev abandoned and dead.
The very same goes for Spain I visit yearly, and Italy I have visited several times in the last 10 years.
Europe is dying.
But in quiet.

ALAMO wrote:

Mir wrote:

kvs wrote:The reaction of the various layers of society in the EU demonstrates that they do not deserve any sympathy.   They
bent over and took it from Uncle Scumbag willingly.   They would rather hate Russians for saving Russians in some
ethno-fascist toilet like "Ukraine" (which they helped establish in 2004 and 2014) than to have affordable energy
for their economy and for their heating.  

The totalitarian restrictions on the information space and travel are natural for the bloody hypocrites in the west.  
Western "values" are a total sham.

You can safely replace "toilet" with sewer - and that goes for the EU as well.

Blah blah blah
You, my bros, have one serious disadvantage.
None of you live in Europe, so your perspective can be both a clear sober and fooling.
Europe is in a process of constant changes like forever, while the ones applied in the last 50 years are not the ones the Europeans like.
Two days ago, we have morned Jean-Jaques Sempre.
He was a cartoonist who covered the Rene Goscinny novels.
Goscinny was a creator of Asterix&Obelix Gall characters, but not worse than that - he has created a Nicolaus series of books for kids.
Nicolaus was a little child living in France in a grooming the  50-60s, and just reading that to your kids, one realizes what a bloody disaster is happening here, on this tiny peninsula at the end of Russia, as Mao Tse Tung said once ...
If you consider that the shit is happening in your neighborhood, well folks, you are all wrong.
That shit is global.
I'm just back from Croatia, with a sad memory of hotels, and pensions&restauratns in a first-class location&seawiev abandoned and dead.
The very same goes for Spain I visit yearly, and Italy I have visited several times in the last 10 years.
Europe is dying.
But in quiet.

Dying how? You mean tourists are not coming to popular vacation spots this summer?

It was Russians (and richer Ukrainians) that all went to these Croatia's, Italy's and Spain's anyhow.