Russian special military operation in Ukraine #25

Backman wrote:Why would someone this important be taking a holiday to China now ? It basically indicates that they are just going to keep at the same tempo to the start of winter

Nikolai Patrushev doesn't have any influence on the tempo of the war. At least, he shouldn't have. He is in charge of intelligence and security.
On the other hand, i don't think there are any plans to speed up.

sepheronx wrote:

I don't doubt Russia may test the Iranian drones. But let the west keep lying. They claimed NK shells, Chinese drones, they will come up with anything to try and make Russia look caveman backwards and stupid and incapable of making drones, tanks, shells, boats etc. You know, the nation that makes hypersonic missiles, 5th gen fighter jets, etc.

Guys, cm'n ...
Those Iranian cargo planes are not flying to Moscow in a regular manner since May for nothing, you know?
Russkie have purchased the Iranian drones.
As easy as that.
You have direct proof of that already, including the materials released by the Russkies themselves.
PPP heavily support this, they can have tons of them at a factor of even own prices.
Deliveries can be paid in barter, by shipping some new toys.
And who gives a shit about how they try to paint the Russkies?
Iran is a world leader in the construction, production, and usage of drones for the last 30 years.
And aside from the western propaganda, they are a well-respected member of a national community with bilateral relations with tons of countries.
Aside of that, we have a typical psyops from the spectrum of reverse psychology.
They are framing the Russkies in things they are doing themselves without any hesitation.
404 is supplied with any single piece of crap they can dig out, including the Iranian ammunition they have captured & confiscated while on the route to Yemen. They are using old stocks from Bulgaria that has been flooded a decade ago, with boxes full of mud. They are supplying them with 122mm cal produced in Pakistan, which is a copy of a Chinese copy od the Soviet D30 ammo.

I don't want to be droning on ( get it ! droning on ! ) but the peace plan posted recently by Turkiye ( right name ) is too complicated and goes beyond the scope of military affairs . My plan is much simpler and easier to implement :


( 1 ) All military units of either side to withdraw from areas , where the population does not form a majority ( 51%) . Russian forces from Ukrainian areas and vice versa .

( 2 ) Minority populations in these areas , who do not wish to assimilate , can be voluntarily relocated , with or without state aid .


I have said nothing here about a cease-fire , or political agreements , or political arrangements for the governance of these regions , or arms build-up or shipments , either before , during or after ethnic demarcation . All that is needed is commanders on either side , with interest in peace , to implement for the sake of peace .

nomadski wrote:
I don't want to be droning on ( get it ! droning on ! ) but the peace plan posted recently by Turkiye ( right name ) is too complicated and goes beyond the scope of military affairs . My plan is much simpler and easier to implement :


( 1 ) All military units of either side to withdraw from areas , where the population does not form a majority ( 51%) . Russian forces from Ukrainian areas and vice versa .

( 2 ) Minority populations in these areas , who do not wish to assimilate , can be voluntarily relocated , with  or without state aid .


I have said nothing here about a cease-fire , or political agreements , or political arrangements for the governance of these regions , or arms build-up or shipments , either before , during or after ethnic demarcation . All that is needed is commanders on either side , with interest in peace , to implement for the sake of peace .

The trouble here is that "who wants peace?"

franco wrote:
The trouble here is that "who wants peace?"

Nobody at this point.
Russkie are waiting for winter for both to make a blow into EU economy and kill even more zombies.
And the NATO won't step down, as the game is emotional now.
They will fight till the last zombie standing.
I suppose that very soon a mass repatriation will start in the EU member countries, as the cannon fodder level is getting low in 404, while there are millions of young Ukro males all over Europe.

Russian commanders can set up a peace council . And encourage Ukrainian commanders who are interested to do the same . Of course membership of Ukrainian military council is kept secret from the Nazi leadership . But it can make local agreements with the Russia side , and arrange mutual withdrawals of forces . The public and politicians do not need to know that for example : The Russian or Ukrainian side , were in fact NOT defeated in Battle and then retreated , but withdrawn under agreement . Can start on small scale . Nazis will not be any wiser for it ! Anyway most of them have gone to Nazi Hell , by now .

thegopnik wrote:

T-72s look similiar to T-90s is there a way to confirm which is which?

Russian T-90's have very distinct features that you won't see on any T-72 currently in Russian service.

For example:

Basic T-90 >>




T-90M >>

Sorry if posted already. Really simple question with an obvious answer:

Who will run out of resources first?

Today I will keep it very short using my favorite bullet-style points:

By most credible accounts, the recent Ukronazi+NATO attack in the Kharkov area was even more costly in KIA/MIA, wounded and lost hardware than the attack towards Kherson. The combined losses from these attacks are staggering.
Yet there are all the signs that the Ukronazi+NATO forces are preparing for even more such attacks.
The Ukronazi+NATO seem happy to trade human lives for territorial gains, no matter how small or how irrelevant that territory is.
The Russians seem happy to trade space and time to protect the lives of their soldiers and equipment.
We could say that the Ukronazi+NATO are trading bodies for shells.

Let’s remember the two goals set by Putin for the SMO: denazify and demilitarize. Both of these goals are human-focused, not terrain-focused. In other words, if a tactical-level withdrawal allows the Russian to kill scores of Ukronazi+NATO personnel and destroy their equipment, they will gladly accept the trade.

The other goal was to protect the LDNR. Kherson is not part of the LDNR.

Territory can be reconquered, equipment is hard to replace, especially complex weapon-systems.

And soldiers cannot be resurrected.

It is absolutely clear that Ukronazi+NATO are “betting the farm” into these offensives. Not only is the coming winter a major threat for them, but the political chaos in the EU and the US this fall and winter means that now is the time to try has hard as possible to conceal the magnitude of the disaster for the Ukronazi+NATO.

So, most of what is taking place now can be summed up in this simple question: who will run out of resources first: the Ukronazi+NATO in terms of manpower and equipment or the Russians in terms of firepower (mostly artillery, missiles and airpower)?

I think that the answer is obvious.

Andrei

http://thesaker.is/who-will-run-out-of-resources-first/

Territory can be reconquered, equipment is hard to replace, especially complex weapon-systems.
And soldiers cannot be resurrected.

That's the one thing all these Nazi trolls seems to ignore. Even NATzo backing can only do so much before the bucket runs dry.

Mir wrote:

Territory can be reconquered, equipment is hard to replace, especially complex weapon-systems.
And soldiers cannot be resurrected.

That's the one thing all these Nazi trolls seems to ignore. Even NATzo backing can only do so much before the bucket runs dry.

The bucket is dry already.
They gave dig any single piece of junk they could find, all over Europe.

And here is another part of this story, that seems to be missing for most of the commentators, bust framing the Russkies into their own dreams&imaginatons.
Russkie presented the overwhelming difference in maneuver possibilities, again.
It repeated, that having all the data delivered from all the NATO recon platforms, they have unleashed a strike ... on the empty territory.
The Russian army was not there already.
A great offensive and retaking of the territory happened only because Russkies didn't care of it at all.
THEY WERE NOT THERE
Those are the Russkies, who pick and decide where they want to fight, and under what conditions, with what unit.
A maneuver disadvantage here is unimaginable, and that is a factor that makes it possible to fight 1:2 proportions, and unleash 1:10 damage.

Newest video link from BB.
https://youtu.be/gc3HCjwhQrM

franco wrote:
Rumors for awhile that they having been sitting in northern Luhansk... waiting for

One of the US armchair generals (actually retired USA major) who likes to track the units reports there are only 60 BTG's in the SMO at the present including 20 in Kherson (about half VDV) and 12-16 in this reserve. Absolutely no Russian BTG's in Lyman or Bakhmut fronts, only volunteers or Donbas forces.

Waiting for the reserves of the Ukro regime around Kharkov depleting to some level and the cornerstones of the fortifications in western Donbass to be taken. Then these units will come. On a map it will look like a broken dam. The remaining Ukros will be swept away in biblical dimensions. 

You can't have peace when there has been no justice adminstered.
And when people of the Russian world have been brainwashed and deceived for 30 yrs.
And when the descendants of Nazi filth from WW2 have demographically controlled land they have no claim to.
Lvov was 20% Russian and 20 % "Ukrainian" before WW2. So Bandera-Central wasn't even majority Ukrainian. All the more reason to flush out the filth and give Russia safe borders.

Bandera-stan is running out of troops, gas, oil, money and hope.
Winter is Russia's friend. Always has been.

So make it quadruple

Bullshit IMO. Serbs had and still have good engineers, companies and faculties where you can build sophisticated enough dummy radars with what they had.

Well when I first read the accusation I thought it sounded stupid, but it would be a very simple solution... a few car batteries and an inverter... cut the glass part out of the front of the door of the microwave and close the door, plug it in and put 5 minutes time and sit the microwave pointing towards the enemy aircraft slightly angled upwards and push start and get out of its way so you don't microwave yourself.

It would be very easy to do and a 1 kilowatt microwave would put out a fairly strong signal but would it be in a useful frequency?

I would assume its frequency is optimised for cooking rather than target detection so it might be completely the wrong frequency range and HARMs might not even see it.

I thought I would post it here to see if any of our Serbian friends had heard anything about it whether it was true or not.

If it actually worked it would be rather clever and easy and cheap to set up... there will be tens of thousands of microwaves in any community that are old and worn out or not being used that could be used in this way.

Microwaves aren't powerful to atract HARMs.

The Microwaves I have owned have all been about 1.2 kilowatts, which is pretty powerful... I expect it is not focused properly like a radar beam of course.

Nice video. You can clearly hear that before the grenade hits the Ukros a new round has already been loaded into the gun.

Nice vid... for those worried that the shells are not hitting where the crosshairs are, that was the commanders sight and not the gunners sight.

It depends on the range from which the HARM starts to engage a target and for all you know some boosted magnetrons from
regular microwaves are good enough.

That is an important point... using microwave ovens doesn't make them stupid... I would expect just any old microwave would not do and would need expert modification to make it an interesting target.

I also remember a story (again, don't know if it is true) but there was a stretch of road in the middle of nowhere in Scotland where the Tornados (the strike model) used to roar down very low and very fast, and a local police station thought they would have some fun with their speed guns and tracked the planes operating at just over 800 knots... they sent the airfield the aircraft originated from a notice about their speed and threats of fines for flying that fast, and the airfield in return sent back a message saying something along the lines of the speed radar was detected when it was used on the aircraft and it was only the pilots quick thinking that prevented the automatic self defence system from launching at anti radiation missile that would have destroyed the radar and car it was in... again... got no way of knowing if that was true or not...

There is almost not horizontal adjustment with the first few shots even though the need to target to the right is called out.
Seems like the operators are scrambling and making mistakes.

That is the commanders sight so the crosshair does not indicate where the rounds should be going... he should be able to mark the target and get the turret to turn to his line of sight to get the gunners sight on target if he wanted to... he can fire the gun himself if he wants to.

I think the gunner was not aiming exactly at the same spot the commander's sight where showing on the video. Not sure how exactly the gunner knows what the commander is aiming at. Does he have exact crosshair indicator or something? Or do they have to talk to each other to coordinate?

The gunners sight has range scales for different ammo types including coaxial ammo. The commander should have the ability to put his own crosshairs on the target and push a button to turn the turret and the gunners sight onto the same point in space... the commander should be able to select ammo type and fire for himself but normally while the gunner is firing at a target the commander is free to look 360 degrees for other targets and of course threats.

I sincerely hope that the Russians had seriously taken into consideration the possibility that some up to date hardware could potentially fall into NATzO hands, by the time NATzO mad scientists develop a counter to this hardware, the Russians should have already introduced newer generation equipment that will nullify NATzO efforts.

The US getting access to their systems was the best thing that happened to the MiG-25P and the MiG-31B... because it resulted in the rather better MiG-25PD and MiG-31BM respectively.

Any more complex equipment that Ukrainians took, like tanks or SPGs could have been torched with 10 liters of gas. How hard is that?

I would certainly agree, but when does the order get given... leave it too late and it might not get done properly... do it too early and things might change and you might not have needed to do it...

Happens all round the world, the Taliban captured lots of western stuff, the Russian forces have captured lots of HATO stuff in this conflict too.

Are we now going to cry all evening for one T-90M ?
I'm not attacking you, of course, I'm just writing that writing about that tank is stupid.

No point having new weapons if you can't use them for fear they might get captured.

If you don't take them to war you might not know whether they work well or not... do you really want to leave that until a full scale conflict with HATO...

If Russia gets too close to India its relation with Pakistan & China will suffer. Russia needs to treat India neither as a friend nor as an enemy.

Pushing India away will just push them towards the US and the west... Russia and China need to talk to India and suggest that their future is an equal partnership with other countries including the expanding BRICS groups, rather than being dictated to by the US and her western bitches.

Every country needs to hear that message... Russia doesn't want to lead a group of countries to fight the US and the west, Russia wants to be part of an international community where everyone agrees on rules for everyone and no one is allowed to break those rules and bully other countries for their own benefit.

Russia can have very good relations with hostile countries. There are many examples

Russia will cooperate and trade with countries that have attacked them and continue to attack them... the US, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkey, there has even been conflict with Iran... but why dwell on that... the US also fought a war against Britain and France and Germany and Japan, yet now they pretend to be best friends... as long as they do what the US demands of course...

India for now is the worlds 5th largest economy by the end of the decade it will be 3rd and at some point around 2 decades from now will be second largest economy.

Also as china becomes a peer enemy for the US, certain western technology will be banned for export to china.

US investment in production in China is what has made China powerful to the shock and horror of the west... India is hoping they can replace China as the wests production hub for cheap stuff with disposable cheap workers, but I doubt the US will make that mistake again and will make sure to limit Indias growth and development.

Indias future is brighter working with BRICS than against them... they can be part of the silk road trade routes from Asia to the EU or they can be left out... the US would prefer they stayed out because the US does not want that to succeed.

Even if they fool the EU into not getting involved the Silk road project still links Asia to the edge of Europe which can be redirected through the Middle East to Africa... serious trade routes from Asia to Africa and the EU eventually is a powerful thing and would be very profitable for all the nodes along that network... the EU has shown it is happy to freeze and give up cheap energy to please the US, which knocks them out of the technology race to sell to the rest of the world, giving the US an advantage of the rest of the west... if they wake up they might start to realise how much being Americas bitch is costing them... I doubt Russia will expend much energy to getting back to cheap gas to Europe when their capacity will likely go towards Asia and Pakistan and India and Afghanistan etc.

The US doesn't even want the EU as a rival and is expending them against Russia and China so the US stays on top... what chance India will be allowed to grow and develop?

In the BRICS camp that is the goal... everyone helping everyone else.

Because Towed decoy is to decoy radar guided missile. It contains radio frequency equipment. In order to also fool manpads you need INFRA RED source. Which may involve some optics and some IR source which adds WEIGHT and SIZE to the decoy.

Actually fibre optic fibres with 850nm and 950nm LEDs would be rather interesting IR decoys... they would use very little power and take up very little space... if there is a power connection on the tether the towed decoy is being dragged by then it would be easy to make it simulate a flare that could modulate its signal and deploy fibres to form 3D shapes...

DIRCMS don't try to pretend to be flares, they direct IR lasers at the laser sensors and optical sensors of the incoming missile to dazzle and blind them... a towed decoy distracts the missile with something that can take a few explosions...

I would love tho to see Russian counteroffensive. Imagine what Western news agency face look like if Russians actually retake what they previously lost.

Actually that counter attack has left the Orcs in forward positions that are relatively exposed... now would be a good time to start using small drones quite widely including suicide drones and drones dropping hand grenades with vertical cameras for real precision attacks on open hatches and trenches...

I don't doubt Russia may test the Iranian drones. But let the west keep lying. T

I agree, Iran has some mature drone systems that are operationally tested... they should buy some if there are some that make sense, they already operate Israeli drones in the form of the Forepost system that they have modified.

The point is that if they just send any old drone in to combat their own AD might jam them or shoot them down rendering them rather useless... and more importantly disabling systems so these drones can operate might open a gap in their AD to let more Orc drones through...

In this particular case, Russia doesn't produce anything similar in range and warhead mass, so this was a logical move.

I agree with your logic but your assumption that the Russians and the Chinese and the North Koreans and Iranians are all lying while the west is telling the truth is the problem I have.

So long as they start producing them locally I'm fine. Improve what they need to and get them out in their own production.

I would say there might be parts substitution to be done too... I am sure the Iranians might want some Russian parts in their drones and other equipment to avoid the back doors present in western sourced electronics they might be using... not to mention cameras and datalinks and engines which might be interesting too.

The only caveat I'd add is for Pakistan, to not sell it anything that it can use in a war with India. But other than that, there are no roadblocks to co-operation.

Having better relations with Pakistan with the intent of improving relations between Pakistan and India is a good thing... a gas pipeline through Afghanistan and Pakistan to India would be a good way to get cheap gas to India from Russia where Afghanistan can benefit and so can Pakistan.

Most countries in that region are desperate to develop out of the third world rut they are stuck in and Russia and China and the other BRICS countries are working together to help each other up... not at the expense of anyone else though.

Maybe the hide a tracking beacon on the tank that is activated remotely. Once they see it is gone, they way a while to make sure its in a repair depot, and BOOM.

They have computers and communication equipment... it would not be that hard to have a setting where it is in captured mode and starts to ping a signal if it is started up again... it has a navigation system so it will know where it is...

They can learn to create apfsds and heat rounds which can counter relict and Russian composite armor arrays more efficiently, just like how M829A2 completely nullified kontakt-5.

Justification for development of new ERA and armour arrays and of course spur the introduction of APS systems too.

Why would someone this important be taking a holiday to China now ? It basically indicates that they are just going to keep at the same tempo to the start of winter

Kievs reserves are committed and its supply lines are extended... it seems to be rushing civilians back to places they have gotten control back... so they are repopulating their human shield reserve, but they will also now have to supply and support them too.

Those Iranian cargo planes are not flying to Moscow in a regular manner since May for nothing, you know?
Russkie have purchased the Iranian drones.
As easy as that.

Their discussions and agreements included civilian aircraft parts and likely other areas they will cooperate.

AFAIK the only people claiming they are using Iranian drones are the west and I wouldn't believe them if they said the earth was spherical.

When Moscow and Iran say they are using Iranian drones then I will accept that, but I have no reason to believe the enemy about anything at all... they have a solid track record of lies.

Iran is a world leader in the construction, production, and usage of drones for the last 30 years.

They also use Israeli Forepost drones, there is no shame in Russia buying Iranian drones if they wanted to... it is not illegal and quite frankly it is super hypocritical of the west to deride Russia for using Iranian drones considering they are supplying most of the military equipment the Orcs are using now.

I have no problem accepting Russia might be using Iranian drones or Chinese drones, but I don't believe the Orcs and Nazis... why should I... they are not interested in the truth.

I don't want to be droning on ( get it ! droning on ! ) but the peace plan posted recently by Turkiye ( right name ) is too complicated and goes beyond the scope of military affairs . My plan is much simpler and easier to implement :


( 1 ) All military units of either side to withdraw from areas , where the population does not form a majority ( 51%) . Russian forces from Ukrainian areas and vice versa .

( 2 ) Minority populations in these areas , who do not wish to assimilate , can be voluntarily relocated , with or without state aid .


I have said nothing here about a cease-fire , or political agreements , or political arrangements for the governance of these regions , or arms build-up or shipments , either before , during or after ethnic demarcation . All that is needed is commanders on either side , with interest in peace , to implement for the sake of peace .

Only Kiev and the west benefit from a ceasefire... they cannot be trusted to honour it... Poroshenko and Zelensky both signed agreements that were cosigned by Russia and France and Germany to get a peaceful solution and Kiev and France and Germany all blamed Russia for not fulfilling its obligations in treaties where it had no obligations... what value a peace treaty with these .

Russian commanders can set up a peace council . And encourage Ukrainian commanders who are interested to do the same . Of course membership of Ukrainian military council is kept secret from the Nazi leadership . But it can make local agreements with the Russia side , and arrange mutual withdrawals of forces . The public and politicians do not need to know that for example : The Russian or Ukrainian side , were in fact NOT defeated in Battle and then retreated , but withdrawn under agreement . Can start on small scale . Nazis will not be any wiser for it ! Anyway most of them have gone to Nazi Hell , by now .

Russia does not benefit from a peace agreement now... they have the upper hand...

That guy with the bucket is funny... does he know where the water is going that he is throwing... I would say most likely it ends up back in the trench he is standing in...

Belogorovka has fallen. For the first time since june, ukrainians are on lugansk territory. Will russia retreat from lisichansk in order to "transfer troops to donbass" and to "lure the ukrainians in?

Mark Sleboda says that there's a 50,000 sized Ukraine army massing to prepare for an attack on Donetsk city.  Mark is not a glass half full guy but he says it's not out of the realm of possibility. At around the 42 minute point he says that its not totally out of the realm of possibility that Azov gets back into Mariupol.

kvs wrote:

No need to get your panties in a bunch, I am not a pro-NATzO fanboi.

Hey, relax, I didn't say anything like that. However, I see here a set of objective factors: the firing range is very serious, and the moving target is relatively small. The projectile can deviate by quite large values when firing from a smoothbore tank gun, which, strictly speaking, is not intended for firing at such distances on infantry. So IF someone could show similar shooting from Western tanks, we could at least roughly compare whether there is any advantage when shooting at such distances with a better fire control system (at least, they say that such systems in Western tanks are superior to Russian ones). It may also be not a Western, but another Russian tank as an example.

LMFS wrote:Sorry if posted already. Really simple question with an obvious answer:

The other goal was to protect the LDNR.  Kherson is not part of the LDNR.

http://thesaker.is/who-will-run-out-of-resources-first/

Ukraine will not run out of resources for a LONG time unless Russia gets effective with interdiction. The only quick way to end this war is to close the Ukraine border with the west. It will take a large army, sure, but if Russia does intend to take Ukraine, the fastest way to do it is to close their borders. The Ukraine army will not last more then a month without supply from the West. If they do not do this the fighting can go on indefinitely.

limb wrote:Belogorovka has fallen. For the first time since june, ukrainians are on lugansk territory. Will russia retreat from lisichansk in order to "transfer troops to donbass" and to "lure the ukrainians in?

This can happen. Or not. We will not know about this in advance, as we do not know about the state of the Ukrainian group in this area and about the state of the Russian group there.
I can say one thing - IF Russia suffers a military defeat in Ukraine, it will be the possible end of Russia, and it is unlikely that people in the Kremlin do not understand this.
What I see now suggests that disillusionment in Russian society is growing with every news about some kind of "retreat for the purpose of regrouping", and the patience of the people is not infinite. If this continues, the leaders of this operation will soon meet with pitchforks and axes, as the people consider this a betrayal of Russian interests.
However, this does not tell us anything about the real situation at the front now.

Backman wrote:Mark Sleboda says that there's a 50,000 sized Ukraine army massing to prepare for an attack on Donetsk city.  Mark is not a glass half full guy but he says it's not out of the realm of possibility. At around the 42 minute point he says that its not totally out of the realm of possibility that Azov gets back into Mariupol.

This is all driven by the US political calendar. There will be major assaults planned to show "success" in Ukraine. These may be temporary and fleeting. If the Russians are not ready to capitalized on these an inflict massive damage, then they are incompetent. Its coming, you can almost mark it on the calendar. The Russians seem to be making this a lot harder then it needs to be. This seems to be the Russian way. Success must be hard won if not its worthless. So if things are going well we must **** it up, make it hard and then overcome. If not its worthless. Its a strange culture that explains a lot about why Russia is not much more successful then it is.