Those few hundred Su 22 and Mig 27s would be shot down in short order. It is not a question of not enough aircraft, it is a question of the inability to establish air dominance as the ELINT, EW, and targeting is being done by NATO at a very high level.
Car bombs hardly need ELINT
And that's the most success Ukraine has had
--
The problem is rules of engagement - the limit on targets has led to a situation where Ukraine can accumulate its forces in cities without opposition
This trope that Russia is fighting NATO is a deflection from the fact that they have not targeted Ukraine the way they should - ineptitude
It's nonsense to say Russia fights NATO
the flesh and blood is Ukrainian, and that is what is taking territory - not NATO
The fact that Russia cannot subdue Ukraine is the real kicker, NATO has nothing to do with lack of competence , that's an excuse by fanboys and the grifter community to keep the cock sucking business going
Backman wrote:Kadyrov was asking for 85,000. They went with 300,000.
They wouldn’t even need 8.500 if they used their brains and fought first three months of this war with aircraft and missiles just like any sane man would
But I guess Ruskie top brass really has some sick fetish about infantry warfare, it's like back in WW1 when generals wanted to use cavalry charges
Backman wrote:Kadyrov was asking for 85,000. They went with 300,000.
They wouldn’t even need 8.500 if they used their brains and fought first three months of this war with aircraft and missiles just like any sane man would
But I guess Ruskie top brass really has some sick fetish about infantry warfare, it's like back in WW1 when generals wanted to use cavalry charges
Only an idiot could design an operation built around not taking the territory or killing the enemy
Backman wrote:Kadyrov was asking for 85,000. They went with 300,000.
They wouldn’t even need 8.500 if they used their brains and fought first three months of this war with aircraft and missiles just like any sane man would
But I guess Ruskie top brass really has some sick fetish about infantry warfare, it's like back in WW1 when generals wanted to use cavalry charges
BS, they need a ton of troops in Ukraine to cover the massive land mass and hold it.
franco wrote:The State Duma will consider the possibility of sending mobilized ex-fighters of OMON and SOBR to units of the National Guard
Mobilized reserve servicemen with experience in the OMON or SOBR will be able to continue serving in the units of the Russian Guard, and not the Armed Forces, if they wish. The corresponding bill will be considered by the State Duma.
According to the head of the State Duma Committee on Information Policy Alexander Khinshtein, the Russian Guard applied with a corresponding initiative, proposing to consider the possibility of service in the ranks of the department of SOBR and OMON servicemen mobilized from the reserve. In addition, it is proposed to secure for them the right to conclude short-term contracts not only for the military, but also for law enforcement service in the National Guard. However, this will not be mandatory, ex-siloviki can choose to serve in the army if they wish.
Together with colleagues from the Rogsvardia and other departments, we started developing initiatives even earlier that will allow us to send military personnel mobilized from the reserve with experience in the police or police special forces, as well as in the internal troops, for further service in the Russian Guard" Hinstein said.
Meanwhile, the Ministry of Defense clarified that the autumn call for urgent military service has nothing to do with the ongoing mobilization, it will be carried out separately in a planned manner. All conscripts, regardless of the VUS, will serve on the territory of Russia, there will be no dispatch to the NWO zone. At the same time, all conscripts whose term of service has expired will be dismissed and sent to their places of residence.
It is planned to call up 120,000 conscripts for the autumn conscription, which fully satisfies the needs of the Ministry of Defense, even taking into account the special operation in Ukraine.
thegopnik wrote:million man mobilization? https://twitter.com/AlexKokcharov/status/1572915537684090882
'According to independent Russian media'?
independent from facts one shall add
Dr.Snufflebug wrote:
Some Chinese officials sugarcoat their public announcements, but there's already multiple PLAAF Y-20s flying into Moscow each week carrying something (?), there is a lot of "suspicious" train traffic, and statements by other officials that don't rhyme at all with these western-directed ditto.
Stuff is going on.
He didn't say anything Putin wouldn't support - direct talks : no micromanagement form Fashington to Kievan junta and direct talks about unconditional surrender to Russia? You know Chinese is a very rich language regarding word meanings
Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
@Suriyak @Suriyakmaps · 2 h Some kilometers north #RussianArmy, #DPR & #LPR forces began entering in the first areas of industrial district of Artemivsk/Бахмут & surrounding areas after weeks of combats as #UkrainianArmy began their retreat from the eastern part of the city. Map: [ https://google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1V8NzjQkzMOhpuLhkktbiKgodOQ27X6IV&ll=48.5910465605177%2C38.02743847647225&z=13 ]
@Suriyak @Suriyakmaps · 2 h On eastern front #RussianArmy & #DPR forces launched an attack to Zhovanka from two axis, thus forcing #UkrainianArmy to withdraw from the suburb north of Gorlovka/Горлівка city. In addition, troops are currently advancing towards Mayorsk Station. Map: [ https://google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1V8NzjQkzMOhpuLhkktbiKgodOQ27X6IV&ll=48.398242404117475%2C37.99623270432413&z=14 ]
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Those few hundred Su 22 and Mig 27s would be shot down in short order. It is not a question of not enough aircraft, it is a question of the inability to establish air dominance as the ELINT, EW, and targeting is being done by NATO at a very high level.
Car bombs hardly need ELINT
And that's the most success Ukraine has had
--
The problem is rules of engagement - the limit on targets has led to a situation where Ukraine can accumulate its forces in cities without opposition
This trope that Russia is fighting NATO is a deflection from the fact that they have not targeted Ukraine the way they should - ineptitude
It's nonsense to say Russia fights NATO
the flesh and blood is Ukrainian, and that is what is taking territory - not NATO
The fact that Russia cannot subdue Ukraine is the real kicker, NATO has nothing to do with lack of competence , that's an excuse by fanboys and the grifter community to keep the cock sucking business going
I would say denying air supremacy when you don't really have an air force and when you are utilizing primarily SAMS developed by your enemy 30 years ago is pretty successful.
Arkanghelsk wrote: Meanwhile, the Ministry of Defense clarified that the autumn call for urgent military service has nothing to do with the ongoing mobilization, it will be carried out separately in a planned manner. All conscripts, regardless of the VUS, will serve on the territory of Russia, there will be no dispatch to the NWO zone. At the same time, all conscripts whose term of service has expired will be dismissed and sent to their places of residence.
It is planned to call up 120,000 conscripts for the autumn conscription, which fully satisfies the needs of the Ministry of Defense, even taking into account the special operation in Ukraine.
I used Yandex, so dont shoot me if i mistranslated:
"If you don't want to give tanks, no offense – you are an independent state, don't give. But don't try to say: America first, then Germany, then Poland. If you don't want to give tanks. We will win this war without your tanks, but I wanted you to know that we are fighting for our common interests"
I am seriously thinking to just take a vacation from this....
Guys sitting at their homes discussing military strategies and tactics while watching everything from their homes, thousands of kms away from the front. Users like the Jean-Claude X Damme and his alter egos with some Napoleon complex trying to lecture how to win WW3... You are praying the same phrases every few pages up and down like mantra. It is getting repetitive.
I am just waiting for further NATO movements since the German side appears to do something in terms of logistics and I would expect other PONOS spearheads doing something similiar. So sit back and observe the further steps.
Last edited by Werewolf on Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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franco wrote:The State Duma will consider the possibility of sending mobilized ex-fighters of OMON and SOBR to units of the National Guard
Meanwhile, the Ministry of Defense clarified that the autumn call for urgent military service has nothing to do with the ongoing mobilization, it will be carried out separately in a planned manner. All conscripts, regardless of the VUS, will serve on the territory of Russia, there will be no dispatch to the NWO zone. At the same time, all conscripts whose term of service has expired will be dismissed and sent to their places of residence.
It is planned to call up 120,000 conscripts for the autumn conscription, which fully satisfies the needs of the Ministry of Defense, even taking into account the special operation in Ukraine.
Help me out here please.
On the one hand we have real civilian conscripts, 120k (Question 1:- every 6 months?) going into the military and being released to go home on schedule. None allowed to serve off Russian soil.
On the other hand we have the ex military conscripts, up to 300k, going back into the military as part of the ongoing mobilization.
Question 2:- Does this statement "All conscripts, regardless of the VUS, will serve on the territory of Russia, there will be no dispatch to the NWO zone." mean that neither group will serve in Ukraine (i.e. outside Russia)?
Question 3:- Does this change after parts of Ukraine become part of Russia next week?
Werewolf wrote:I am seriously thinking to just take a vacation from this....
Guys sitting at their homes discussing military strategies and tactics while watching everything from their homes, thousands of kms away from the front. Users like the Jean-Claude X Damme and his alter egos with some Napoleon complex trying to lecture how to win WW3... You are praying the same phrases every few pages up and down like mantra. It is getting repetitive.
I am just waiting for further NATO movements since the German side appears to do something in terms of logistics and I would expect other PONOS spearheads doing something similiar. So sit back and observe the further steps.
Those people here do not understand what is happening, or the escalation that is about to happen on the battlefield. I come here and scroll trough the pages of comments until i see an username i DO want to read what they have to say. The level of armchair expertise here is not good for my health either
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franco wrote:The State Duma will consider the possibility of sending mobilized ex-fighters of OMON and SOBR to units of the National Guard
Meanwhile, the Ministry of Defense clarified that the autumn call for urgent military service has nothing to do with the ongoing mobilization, it will be carried out separately in a planned manner. All conscripts, regardless of the VUS, will serve on the territory of Russia, there will be no dispatch to the NWO zone. At the same time, all conscripts whose term of service has expired will be dismissed and sent to their places of residence.
It is planned to call up 120,000 conscripts for the autumn conscription, which fully satisfies the needs of the Ministry of Defense, even taking into account the special operation in Ukraine.
Help me out here please.
On the one hand we have real civilian conscripts, 120k (Question 1:- every 6 months?) going into the military and being released to go home on schedule. None allowed to serve off Russian soil.
On the other hand we have the ex military conscripts, up to 300k, going back into the military as part of the ongoing mobilization.
Question 2:- Does this statement "All conscripts, regardless of the VUS, will serve on the territory of Russia, there will be no dispatch to the NWO zone." mean that neither group will serve in Ukraine (i.e. outside Russia)?
Question 3:- Does this change after parts of Ukraine become part of Russia next week?
My take is the Russian translation of the "reserves recalled" and "draftees" must be the same. So nobody that we would call draftees will go to Ukraine or into combat. Those 300,000 (or 305,000 as I just read somewhere) are only those who actually have combat experience so ex-contract soldiers is my take including those from the Rosgvardia which is almost 90% contract servicemen.
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Werewolf wrote:I am seriously thinking to just take a vacation from this....
Guys sitting at their homes discussing military strategies and tactics while watching everything from their homes, thousands of kms away from the front. Users like the Jean-Claude X Damme and his alter egos with some Napoleon complex trying to lecture how to win WW3... You are praying the same phrases every few pages up and down like mantra. It is getting repetitive.
I am just waiting for further NATO movements since the German side appears to do something in terms of logistics and I would expect other PONOS spearheads doing something similiar. So sit back and observe the further steps.
Those people here do not understand what is happening, or the escalation that is about to happen on the battlefield. I come here and scroll trough the pages of comments until i see an username i DO want to read what they have to say. The level of armchair expertise here is not good for my health either
The sane and knowledgeable responses from both of you is greatly appreciated by myself so I hope you can both soldier through it. I skim comments and quickly go elsewhere when it becomes evident as someone's uninformed opinion.
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franco wrote:The State Duma will consider the possibility of sending mobilized ex-fighters of OMON and SOBR to units of the National Guard
Meanwhile, the Ministry of Defense clarified that the autumn call for urgent military service has nothing to do with the ongoing mobilization, it will be carried out separately in a planned manner. All conscripts, regardless of the VUS, will serve on the territory of Russia, there will be no dispatch to the NWO zone. At the same time, all conscripts whose term of service has expired will be dismissed and sent to their places of residence.
It is planned to call up 120,000 conscripts for the autumn conscription, which fully satisfies the needs of the Ministry of Defense, even taking into account the special operation in Ukraine.
Help me out here please.
On the one hand we have real civilian conscripts, 120k (Question 1:- every 6 months?) going into the military and being released to go home on schedule. None allowed to serve off Russian soil.
On the other hand we have the ex military conscripts, up to 300k, going back into the military as part of the ongoing mobilization.
Question 2:- Does this statement "All conscripts, regardless of the VUS, will serve on the territory of Russia, there will be no dispatch to the NWO zone." mean that neither group will serve in Ukraine (i.e. outside Russia)?
Question 3:- Does this change after parts of Ukraine become part of Russia next week?
Let me give a try to it. Reservist are persons that after the completion of military compulsory service, although returning to civilian life have accepted to sign a form of contract that put them in an obligation of be recalled periodically to get a refresh and serve in the military for a limited period. In exchange of this they receive professional or academical facilitations i,e,access to some state service work or to university without passing an evaluation. So, legally they are different from conscripts and can be sent abroad even without a war being declared. Regular conscript could be obviously be still called anyway to serve their mandatory service in the meantime that reservist are called but they will retain their legal status so they will not be sent abroad and at the end of the time they have to spent in the military will be sent back home (unless they sign a contract). So, only difference would be the number of them that will be called or eventually the possibility to be kept in the military for a longer period.
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My take is the Russian translation of the "reserves recalled" and "draftees" must be the same. So nobody that we would call draftees will go to Ukraine or into combat. Those 300,000 (or 305,000 as I just read somewhere) are only those who actually have combat experience so ex-contract soldiers is my take including those from the Rosgvardia which is almost 90% contract servicemen.
In Russian original they differentiate: военнослужащие запаса - military reserve forces срочники - conscripts
BTW
Riflemen, tankers and artillerymen. The General Staff explained who the partial mobilization concerns
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/15838253
Who will be called Private and reserve sergeants under the age of 35, junior officers under 50 and senior officers under 55 are subject to partial mobilization. This, in accordance with current legislation, corresponds to the first category of the reserve. As part of the mobilization, women with the necessary military specialties, such as doctors, can be called up, but "the need for such specialists is minimal." Priority for partial mobilization is given to "categories of citizens that are necessary to complete tasks": riflemen, tankmen, gunners, drivers and driver-mechanics. One of the main factors will be the presence of combat experience. However, "as such, the order of conscription of citizens in the reserve has not been established." The number of those who are subject to conscription is determined by the "regular requirement of completed military units." Earlier, the head of the Russian Defense Ministry, Sergei Shoigu, said that it was planned to mobilize 300,000 people (this is a little more than is called up for military service every year). On their own, without waiting for a summons, about 10 thousand Russians have already arrived at the military registration and enlistment offices.
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Judging by how russia is using its Su-34s(droppping dumb bombs flying right sabove the target) and almost not using strike UAVs it is the 70s.
Frontline attack aircraft are extremely vulnerable because of widespread MANPADS. The only reason old useless dinosaurs like the Su-25 and the A-10 still linger on is because they have been proven to be very good at general CAS in less MANPADs-saturated environments.
And Su-34s and Su-25SMs aren't?
The Su-22M4 was as good as the Su-25 in ground attack.
All of the shit that MiG-27s and Su-17/22s did back in the day is now drones, drones, drones. Because they WILL get shot down from time to time, and it's better to lose an unmanned drone than a very expensive (years of training) pilot.
Yet russia is using Su-34s, Su-30s and Su-25s to do the job of drones. Its better to lose a MiG-27 or Su-22M4 than a Su-34. Oh wait, Su-34s were lost already.
The A-10 and the Su-25 were both designed for ridiculous survivability
Armor is bullshit. Speed, DIRCM, MAWS, flares/chaff and jammer pods are what matters. The Su-22M4 and MiG-27 had more upgrade potential than the Su-25.
limb wrote:In this war, we see that the russian air force simply doesnt have the numbers to coverthe front area which allows for ukrainian armored groups to attack and marshall almost unimpeded. This numerical insufficiency can be remedied by having thousands of drones like forpost and inokhodets constantly patrolling, the frontline and behind it, but russia only has a few dozen of them at best. Meanwhile russian strike aircraft are too valuable to be risked to strike behind enemy lines.
This proves that retiring the MiG-27 and Su-22M4 was a mistake. They were affordable and effective ground attack aircraft with just as much, if not more, modernization potential than the Su-25. The MiG-27K had a far superior laser targeting system than the vanilla Su-25 for example. If russia still had a few hundred Su-22M4s and MiG-27s, it could use them instead of overkill aircraft like the Su-34 for battlefield interdiction.
Those few hundred Su 22 and Mig 27s would be shot down in short order. It is not a question of not enough aircraft, it is a question of the inability to establish air dominance as the ELINT, EW, and targeting is being done by NATO at a very high level.
The Russian airforce had a field day in Syria. And there was manpads all over hell too.
anyone can put this on the EW thread if they like https://twitter.com/Sprinter88000/status/1573061508996775947?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1573061508996775947%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
Edit Zelensky ordered another offensive of the time of the referendum https://twitter.com/Sprinter88000/status/1573078326993948672
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ALAMO wrote:I will just make a friendly remind to you folks. It was today (or yesterday?) that the Chinese MoFA just nulled the ideas to deprive Russa of the UN presidium chair. Sure that the whole chucpa was pre-staged, still it gives a good background how the China will act in the real terms. Just take a look at how Wang Yi is behaving towards Lavrov, and you will know all you need
[/quote]
Yeah, the Chinese are simply enaging in political camouflage, making generalised statements that encapsulate responsible diplomacy and nominally adhere to high principles, but without any actual direct criticism of Russias actions or any calls for the "international community" to take action against them. Its just optics, and while Chinese spokemen indulge in this bland rhetoric, China is buy behind the scenes co-operating with Russia and supporting their efforts to undermine the foundations of US hegemony and wreck their control of the global financial system (the true source of US power).
China understands the US only too well. If the West was somehow to overcome Russia and put the Bear in a cage, the Dragon would be next and Beijing knows it. Russia stands for a multipolar world of independent soverign nations, has abundant energy and commodity reserves that she is willing to sell, is a vast market for Chinese goods and services, and provides China with the defense-in-depth at her back that she so greatly requires while busy fending off the US hegemons attacks from the pacific. Chna is not about to sit on its hands while Russia faces off against the Borg Collective all by itself...
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