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Log inLeaving own troops surrounded just doesn't sit right with me. Leave the town or send reinforcements. Situation on the ground is not desperate for Russia that these things should be happening in the first place.flamming_python wrote:Here though, we're basically talking about 1 town and its outlying villages. Yes the eastern part of Kharkov region as well, but that was abandoned on purpose.
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Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
caveat emptor- Posts : 2009
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- Post n°801
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
caveat emptor Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:16 am
caveat emptor- Posts : 2009
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- Post n°802
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
caveat emptor Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:18 am
No. Ukrainian army was always David when compared with Russian. The fact that Russian government decided not to deploy enough forces and go with SMO scenario is their own choice.ALAMO wrote:
Ukraine is David only now.
Due to six months of intense struggle.
Don't play Gooffy.
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ALAMO
ALAMO- Posts : 7479
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caveat emptor wrote:
No. Ukrainian army was always David when compared with Russian. The fact that Russian government decided not to deploy enough forces and go with SMO scenario is their own choice.
You are not much in the Bible, aren't you?
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Podlodka77- Posts : 2589
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- Post n°804
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
Podlodka77 Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:26 am
And one song for the fighers of Ukroshitstan... !
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Isos- Posts : 11599
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SeigSoloyvov wrote:Well if Putin finally lets the army treat this like a war and orders a full scale war properly then the **** up with Liman served a point, it got their asses into gear and out of the sand.
Now IF russia does properly deploy its forces and mobilize more men the question becomes.
How much of Ukraine will it take? I wager Odessa, Sumy and Khakrov, possibly Poltava but that's a maybe IMO.
Porlbem is if they try to seize everything up to the Dnipro river that means you HAVE to take Keiv and if you take kiev well now you need to size more areas to create a buffer space around it
but this is all "IF" war must be declared first and I must see the required number of troops deployed
We can only speculate. Russian strategical and tactical goals and the real situations be it military, political or economical, are unknown for us in their entirety so their actions may sound dumb for us.
They are adaptating their "war" to those situations so their success and failures can be rationaly explained but not to us.
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Arkanghelsk- Posts : 3899
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- Post n°806
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
Arkanghelsk Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:39 am
Looks like Ukraine is going for accelerate membership in NATO -
Will Putin back down? Or will he launch nukes if article V is declared?
UN and NATO secretary General are going to speak soon
Will Putin back down? Or will he launch nukes if article V is declared?
UN and NATO secretary General are going to speak soon
SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3880
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- Post n°807
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
SeigSoloyvov Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:41 am
Isos wrote:SeigSoloyvov wrote:Well if Putin finally lets the army treat this like a war and orders a full scale war properly then the **** up with Liman served a point, it got their asses into gear and out of the sand.
Now IF russia does properly deploy its forces and mobilize more men the question becomes.
How much of Ukraine will it take? I wager Odessa, Sumy and Khakrov, possibly Poltava but that's a maybe IMO.
Porlbem is if they try to seize everything up to the Dnipro river that means you HAVE to take Keiv and if you take kiev well now you need to size more areas to create a buffer space around it
but this is all "IF" war must be declared first and I must see the required number of troops deployed
We can only speculate. Russian strategical and tactical goals and the real situations be it military, political or economical, are unknown for us in their entirety so their actions may sound dumb for us.
They are adaptating their "war" to those situations so their success and failures can be rationaly explained but not to us.
I was speculating....why I said "I wager"
Isos- Posts : 11599
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Arkanghelsk wrote:Looks like Ukraine is going for accelerate membership in NATO -
Will Putin back down? Or will he launch nukes if article V is declared?
UN and NATO secretary General are going to speak soon
US postponed delivery if 18 Himars and you think they will go for a nuk ping pong game with Russia over Zlensky
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SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3880
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- Post n°809
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
SeigSoloyvov Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:42 am
Arkanghelsk wrote:Looks like Ukraine is going for accelerate membership in NATO -
Will Putin back down? Or will he launch nukes if article V is declared?
UN and NATO secretary General are going to speak soon
NATO isn't going to accept Ukraine in while its at war.
Whatever is left of Ukraine after the war is over sure
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Isos- Posts : 11599
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I was speculating....why I said "I wager"
I know. I was just saying we can speculate all day it is useless since we don't know what's going on behind the doors.
flamming_python- Posts : 9523
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- Post n°811
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
flamming_python Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:45 am
caveat emptor wrote:Leaving own troops surrounded just doesn't sit right with me. Leave the town or send reinforcements. Situation on the ground is not desperate for Russia that these things should be happening in the first place.flamming_python wrote:Here though, we're basically talking about 1 town and its outlying villages. Yes the eastern part of Kharkov region as well, but that was abandoned on purpose.
My sympathies to them but they are professional warriors and war is what they know and what they know how to do. They are not civilians, they can take care of themselves for a while until either relief comes or they are ordered to break out.
Being surrounded is not a death sentence. Ukrainian forces were surrounded in Mariupol for weeks before circumstances forced them to surrender. And they never did run out of supplies. It's all about preparation, and Russian command did have time to prepare for the assault on Krasny Liman; a generous amount of time in fact.
In my mind the defenders of Krasny Liman are doing an admirable job in tying down what seems to be a colossal amount of ordnance, men, and equipment being concentrated all against them. Zelensky has all but proclaimed Krasny Liman, this little town of questionable strategic significance - as the Ukrainian no. 1 target across the entirety of the theater.
And this single-minded pursuit of objectives, for propaganda reasons or otherwise - is a blatant weakness of Ukrainian military thinking. They are entirely predictable. And have now committed themselves to this mini-Verdun style battle.
While having this town in operational encirclement meanwhile means rather nothing, considering the proximity of this location to the Russian border and numerous Russian units so far held in reserve.
No need to interrupt the enemy while they're making a mistake.
I'll leave the screaming and thrashing of betrayal to all these little Russian right-wing and nationalist groups on Telegram with little education on military history and even fewer brains.
So far Shoigu, Dvornikov, Gerasimov are doing a good job
Last edited by flamming_python on Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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ALAMO- Posts : 7479
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flamming_python wrote:
Being surrounded is not a death sentence.
How it goes?
You are an airborne! Not being surrounded is what should bother you!
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Arkanghelsk wrote:Looks like Ukraine is going for accelerate membership in NATO -
Will Putin back down? Or will he launch nukes if article V is declared?
UN and NATO secretary General are going to speak soon
How many men could NATO mobilize before they'd have to start conscripting.
If article 5 is called , i doubt the US would attack Moscow. If they did then it's world over. NATO could jump in to play a ground role. Like the Korean war , it would be conventional vs conventional.
One would think that the US and Russia could just negotiate a line somewhere in central Ukraine. But the US is insane. If nato jumps in they would try and take Odessa and Kharkov right off the bat.
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Arkanghelsk- Posts : 3899
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- Post n°814
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
Arkanghelsk Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:49 am
SeigSoloyvov wrote:Arkanghelsk wrote:Looks like Ukraine is going for accelerate membership in NATO -
Will Putin back down? Or will he launch nukes if article V is declared?
UN and NATO secretary General are going to speak soon
NATO isn't going to accept Ukraine in while its at war.
Whatever is left of Ukraine after the war is over sure
Well thats the point, by taking those lands Putin technically has exited Ukraine
There are no more territorial disputes in the rest of Ukraine
NATO could accept the rest of the country today
With ZPR , KPR , DPR AND LPR gone, NATO can commit to defend the rest of the Ukrainian land
Putin has been looking for a face saving way to end this and I think this is why krasny liman and Kharkov collapsed
He's run away from the rest of the country and will settle for this land
The mobilized will only defend borders and the other troops will be based in the New territories
But the war might just be over as of today
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Backman- Posts : 2703
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SeigSoloyvov wrote:Arkanghelsk wrote:Looks like Ukraine is going for accelerate membership in NATO -
Will Putin back down? Or will he launch nukes if article V is declared?
UN and NATO secretary General are going to speak soon
NATO isn't going to accept Ukraine in while its at war.
Whatever is left of Ukraine after the war is over sure
Why not? The rulebook means nothing anymore. All the leaders of the NATO countries are 100% for war. They can agree to do anything they want.
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Arkanghelsk- Posts : 3899
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- Post n°816
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
Arkanghelsk Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:55 am
Ukraine is no longer at war though
Russian troops are no longer in Ukraine, they are in Russia
Putin has ended the hostilities
He will exit Kharkov and the rest will go to NATO
Russian troops are no longer in Ukraine, they are in Russia
Putin has ended the hostilities
He will exit Kharkov and the rest will go to NATO
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SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3880
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- Post n°817
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
SeigSoloyvov Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:56 am
No I don't see russia stopping at these four areas only that would be a strategic failure.
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- Post n°818
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
Arkanghelsk Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:57 am
SeigSoloyvov wrote:No I don't see russia stopping at these four areas only that would be a strategic failure.
It's over my man and that is what it is, a strategic failure
They won't reinforce Kharkov, they're leaving it
And theyl settle for what they could keep
Game set and match
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Mir- Posts : 3802
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kvs wrote:The wear rate of US artillery demonstrates the inferior metallurgy of the "high tech superpower" USA. Period.
No No No its not inferior - it is by design. Not only that it probably cost at least 20x more than the Russian equivalent.
These guys know how to make $$$.
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SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3880
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- Post n°820
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
SeigSoloyvov Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:57 am
Backman wrote:Why not? The rulebook means nothing anymore. All the leaders of the NATO countries are 100% for war. They can agree to do anything they want.
No they aren't, not in the way you proclaim. they are for supporting Ukraine with material only not committing their own troops of waging Nuclear death.
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flamming_python- Posts : 9523
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- Post n°821
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
flamming_python Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:58 am
Arkanghelsk wrote:SeigSoloyvov wrote:Arkanghelsk wrote:Looks like Ukraine is going for accelerate membership in NATO -
Will Putin back down? Or will he launch nukes if article V is declared?
UN and NATO secretary General are going to speak soon
NATO isn't going to accept Ukraine in while its at war.
Whatever is left of Ukraine after the war is over sure
Well thats the point, by taking those lands Putin technically has exited Ukraine
There are no more territorial disputes in the rest of Ukraine
NATO could accept the rest of the country today
With ZPR , KPR , DPR AND LPR gone, NATO can commit to defend the rest of the Ukrainian land
Putin has been looking for a face saving way to end this and I think this is why krasny liman and Kharkov collapsed
He's run away from the rest of the country and will settle for this land
The mobilized will only defend borders and the other troops will be based in the New territories
But the war might just be over as of today
That's obviously not the plan because Putin is not an idiot
You can't just exit with a face saving way if your opponent is set on brutally killing you no matter how many Ukrainians he has to sacrifice to do it
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SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3880
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Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
SeigSoloyvov Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:59 am
Arkanghelsk wrote:SeigSoloyvov wrote:No I don't see russia stopping at these four areas only that would be a strategic failure.
It's over my man and that is what it is, a strategic failure
They won't reinforce Kharkov, they're leaving it
And theyl settle for what they could keep
Game set and match
We will see but I doubt it Khakrov, Sumy and Odessa have to be captured if this "SMO" is to be considered a strategic success.
That is my opinion I could be wrong, we will see
Arkanghelsk- Posts : 3899
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Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
Arkanghelsk Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:00 am
flamming_python wrote:Arkanghelsk wrote:SeigSoloyvov wrote:Arkanghelsk wrote:Looks like Ukraine is going for accelerate membership in NATO -
Will Putin back down? Or will he launch nukes if article V is declared?
UN and NATO secretary General are going to speak soon
NATO isn't going to accept Ukraine in while its at war.
Whatever is left of Ukraine after the war is over sure
Well thats the point, by taking those lands Putin technically has exited Ukraine
There are no more territorial disputes in the rest of Ukraine
NATO could accept the rest of the country today
With ZPR , KPR , DPR AND LPR gone, NATO can commit to defend the rest of the Ukrainian land
Putin has been looking for a face saving way to end this and I think this is why krasny liman and Kharkov collapsed
He's run away from the rest of the country and will settle for this land
The mobilized will only defend borders and the other troops will be based in the New territories
But the war might just be over as of today
That's obviously not the plan because Putin is not an idiot
You can't just exit with a face saving way if your opponent is set on brutally killing you no matter how many Ukrainians he has to sacrifice to do it
It is an exit,
The west will tell Zelensky to stop attacks on the new regions
That's it
The deal was made and sold to us as a victory
Russia can save face
And NATO takes the rest
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flamming_python- Posts : 9523
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- Post n°824
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
flamming_python Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:02 am
Arkanghelsk wrote:
It is an exit,
The west will tell Zelensky to stop attacks on the new regions
That's it
The deal was made and sold to us as a victory
Russia can save face
And NATO takes the rest
Why did the Anglos torpedo Nord Stream against the wishes of the Germans then?
No, they're clearly not looking for an end to the war
Last edited by flamming_python on Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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- Post n°825
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26
billybatts91 Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:04 am
Hopefully this is the plan for the future Novorossiya.
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