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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:08 pm

    Su-35 dropping dumb bombs while flying very low. Endangering sophisticated plane for this, is not the best use imo.
    https://t.me/milinfolive/92470

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    Post  limb Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:29 pm

    Hole wrote:
    Potbelly dinosaur generals 

    Read this shit before on Twitter. "We need younger Generals because the current ones don´t know how to use computers".  Rolling Eyes

    Todays Generals started their service back in the 80´s, turning Captains in the 90´s and so on. Does really somebody think that a officer in any army
    around the world could manage 30 years of working in the military without using computers? Really? Some of the guys in the Russian General Staff could
    build a computer from some garbage while others could write the programs for it.

    This isn't about computers. The fact is there have been several generations of potbelly dinosaurs in the soviet military that have amplified bad habits. Potbelly dinosaurs fight like its theoretical 1960s doomsday and  refuse to innovate in  russian arms procurement and tactics. Their line of thinking goes like this:

    Drones? Who needs those? In 1960 drones would be destroyed by nukes
    Precision guided bombs against tanks? Who needs those? In 1943 we didnt destroy tanks with bombs, so we don't have to now.
    Infantry Thermals? Who needs those? In nuclear war thermals don't matter
    No cooperation between artillery and aircraft? Who needs that? We went to berlin without such cooperation.
    Theres a group of enemy vehicles Just fire dumb artillery rounds cuz that worked in 1943, regardless if we have guided EFP cluster munitions.
    Tanks? Just charge enemy trenches with them like in Tundja 1976 exercise.
    Airburst muntions? Who needs those? We went to berlin without them.
    Infantry body armor? Who needs those? Too expensive. Soldiers die, shit happens, its better to save money than save lives


    Last edited by limb on Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  limb Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:38 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:Su-35 dropping dumb bombs while flying very low. Endangering sophisticated plane for this, is not the best use imo.
    https://t.me/milinfolive/92470
    This is horrifyingly dumb. This is what I mean by potbelly dinosaur behavior, sending a superexpensive multirole fighter as dumb bomb low altitude bomber like its 1968.

    They couldve at least used a Su-25 or Su-24. If the potbelly dinosaurs want to waste planes like that, they should use the Su-17 or MiG-27. I guess GarryB was wrong that supersonic fighters were considered by the russian air force to be inferior for dropping dumb bombs from low altitude, given that someone ordered this Su-35 pilot to do just that.

    Where is the vaunted SVP-24 to drop iron bombs from range here? They could've at least dropped bombs outside of MANPAD altitude. Gliding bombs aren't even needed much, they couldve just used Kh-25s too.


    If the russians are so afraid to even send Su-35s at high altitude bombing missions, this proves that the Ukrainian AD net is almost entirely intact. If ukrainian SAMs are mostly destroyed by now, why would the potbelly dinosaurs be sending aircraft in the range of MANPADs which ukrainians have in limitless quantities?

    Potbelly dinosaurs: Targeting pods? Who needs those, we went to berlin without targeting pods.
    Gliding bombs? Who needs those, in Zapad 1981 we used FAB-250s, and that was enough.

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    Post  DerWolf Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:50 pm

    To quiet in telegram today
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:12 pm

    limb wrote:
    Either the Ukrainians are lying(unlikely,


    lol1 lol1 lol1

    keep going keep going

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    Post  caveat emptor Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:37 pm

    limb wrote:This is horrifyingly dumb. This is what I mean by potbelly dinosaur behavior, sending a superexpensive multirole fighter as dumb bomb low altitude bomber like its 1968.

    They couldve at least used a Su-25 or Su-24. If the potbelly dinosaurs want to waste planes like that, they should use the Su-17 or MiG-27. I guess GarryB was wrong that supersonic fighters were considered by the russian air force to be inferior for dropping dumb bombs from low altitude, given that someone ordered this Su-35 pilot to do just that.
    A lot of this has to do with a general outlook of Russian government for penny pinching, neoliberal policies. That disease is very widespread throughout whole governing system. I guess,it was better to invest money in USD bonds and other Western holdings.🙃
    From a practical standpoint, while sophisticated examples of bombs and missiles are developed, MoD never chose to procure most of them in large numbers. 
    Emphasis was put on strategic weapons in procurement process. It looks like they never believed that large scale ground war was possible if they have nuclear wespons. 
    Let's see how long will it take to rectify results of those delusions.

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    Post  Arrow Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:37 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:Su-35 dropping dumb bombs while flying very low. Endangering sophisticated plane for this, is not the best use imo.
    https://t.me/milinfolive/92470

    Russia has a lot of precise missile weapons. Why are they so risky with this Su 35S?

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    Post  limb Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:58 pm

    Even Iran trains its pilots on the "obsolete" Su-17 in using guided bombs, while the "modern" Su-25Sm and Su-35 pilots only train to use iron bombs and unguided rocket pods against ground targets.


    https://t.me/milinfolive/92475

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    Post  flamming_python Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:55 pm

    limb wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:Su-35 dropping dumb bombs while flying very low. Endangering sophisticated plane for this, is not the best use imo.
    https://t.me/milinfolive/92470
    This is horrifyingly dumb. This is what I mean by potbelly dinosaur behavior, sending a superexpensive multirole fighter as dumb bomb low altitude bomber like its 1968.

    They couldve at least used a Su-25 or Su-24. If the potbelly dinosaurs want to waste planes like that, they should use the Su-17 or MiG-27. I guess GarryB was wrong that supersonic fighters were considered by the russian air force to be inferior for dropping dumb bombs from low altitude, given that someone ordered this Su-35 pilot to do just that.

    Where is the vaunted SVP-24 to drop iron bombs from range here? They could've at least dropped bombs outside of MANPAD altitude. Gliding bombs aren't even needed much, they couldve just used Kh-25s too.


    If the russians are so afraid to even send Su-35s at high altitude bombing missions, this proves that the Ukrainian AD net is almost entirely intact. If ukrainian SAMs are mostly destroyed by now, why would the potbelly dinosaurs be sending aircraft in the range of MANPADs which ukrainians have in limitless quantities?

    Potbelly dinosaurs: Targeting pods? Who needs those, we went to berlin without targeting pods.
    Gliding bombs? Who needs those, in Zapad 1981 we used FAB-250s, and that was enough.

    This is low-altitude penetration bombing

    You can't use the SVP-24 from range as that would require a lot of altitude - and therefore tracking and engagement by air defence systems.
    The SVP-24 or something like it will be used by the Su-35 of course, it will calculate the optimum moment to drop the bombs. They will be quite accurate from this low altitude, even without guidance.

    And for this role many platforms have the capability. Su-24s are particularly optimized for it.
    Su-25s of course, although their max payload is considerably lower, and they won't be able to detect or defend themselves from enemy fighters.

    The problem with using Su-24s or Su-34s however is that if the aircraft is shot down - you can potentially lose 2 pilots instead of 1.

    So I can see some some sense in using Su-35s if the target is some way behind the front-lines

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    Post  calripson Wed Oct 26, 2022 12:05 am

    caveat emptor wrote:
    limb wrote:This is horrifyingly dumb. This is what I mean by potbelly dinosaur behavior, sending a superexpensive multirole fighter as dumb bomb low altitude bomber like its 1968.

    They couldve at least used a Su-25 or Su-24. If the potbelly dinosaurs want to waste planes like that, they should use the Su-17 or MiG-27. I guess GarryB was wrong that supersonic fighters were considered by the russian air force to be inferior for dropping dumb bombs from low altitude, given that someone ordered this Su-35 pilot to do just that.
    A lot of this has to do with a general outlook of Russian government for penny pinching, neoliberal policies. That disease is very widespread throughout whole governing system. I guess,it was better to invest money in USD bonds and other Western holdings.🙃
    From a practical standpoint, while sophisticated examples of bombs and missiles are developed, MoD never chose to procure most of them in large numbers. 
    Emphasis was put on strategic weapons in procurement process. It looks like they never believed that large scale ground war was possible if they have nuclear wespons. 
    Let's see how long will it take to rectify results of those delusions.

    Some retard in the Russian Finance Ministry decided to set a maximum amount of defense spending relative to GDP. Never mind they lost $500 billion in seized foreign reserve assets or a couple billion $$ they loaned to Ukraine in 2014. Not to mention they spent the last 20 years investing in the debt of their adversaries to earn 1% interest. The stupidity is limitless.

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    Post  calripson Wed Oct 26, 2022 12:16 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Macron at Vatican: US Needs to Sit Down at Negotiating Table to Push Forward Ukraine Peace Process

    International

    Russia's Special Operation in Ukraine

    On February 24, Russia launched a special military operation in Ukraine, aiming to liberate the Donbass region where the people's republics of Donetsk and Lugansk had been living under regular attacks from Kiev's forces.

    Macron at Vatican: US Needs to Sit Down at Negotiating Table to Push Forward Ukraine Peace Process

    The French president traveled to Vatican City on Monday to meet Pope Francis, with the ongoing security crisis in Ukraine the focal point of discussions. According to French media, the president asked the pope to personally reach out to Vladimir Putin and Joe Biden to help resolve the conflict.

    French President Emmanuel Macron has urged Washington to start negotiations to stop the Ukrainian crisis.

    "We need the United States to sit down at the negotiating table to advance the peace process in Ukraine," Macron said, speaking to reporters after his visit to the Vatican.

    Pointing to the relationship of trust between Pope Francis and Biden, who is a Catholic, Macron suggested that Pope Francis "can influence him so that the United States resumes its involvement in resolving the crises in Haiti and Ukraine."

    The president also called on the pope to call President Putin and Russian Orthodox Church patriarch Kirill, as well as Biden, "to help bring peace to Ukraine."

    It seems many voices in the west, powerful ones are beginning to sue for peace - the pope, Europe, and even democrats are all suing for peace

    It seems Russia is winning the war then

    I would give it consideration after the winter offensive








    Despite endless media propaganda, 57% of American voters are against continuing military/financial taxpayers' dollars being shipped off to a country 80% couldn't find on a map. Guess what - they would rather spend that money to rebuild Detroit or Philadelphia than Kharkov. Hence the beginning of comments from Musk (subsequently threatened by unnamed government officials), Republican and liberal Democratic politicians. The neocon/neoliberals - two branches of the same tree, the Deep State apparatchiks, and their ultimate bosses (the more astute know who they are) have a vested interest in keeping this war going at all costs.

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    Post  flamming_python Wed Oct 26, 2022 12:20 am

    Musk certainly represents some part of the American elite however

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    Post  limb Wed Oct 26, 2022 12:23 am

    calripson wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:
    limb wrote:This is horrifyingly dumb. This is what I mean by potbelly dinosaur behavior, sending a superexpensive multirole fighter as dumb bomb low altitude bomber like its 1968.

    They couldve at least used a Su-25 or Su-24. If the potbelly dinosaurs want to waste planes like that, they should use the Su-17 or MiG-27. I guess GarryB was wrong that supersonic fighters were considered by the russian air force to be inferior for dropping dumb bombs from low altitude, given that someone ordered this Su-35 pilot to do just that.
    A lot of this has to do with a general outlook of Russian government for penny pinching, neoliberal policies. That disease is very widespread throughout whole governing system. I guess,it was better to invest money in USD bonds and other Western holdings.🙃
    From a practical standpoint, while sophisticated examples of bombs and missiles are developed, MoD never chose to procure most of them in large numbers. 
    Emphasis was put on strategic weapons in procurement process. It looks like they never believed that large scale ground war was possible if they have nuclear wespons. 
    Let's see how long will it take to rectify results of those delusions.

    Some retard in the Russian Finance Ministry decided to set a maximum amount of defense spending relative to GDP. Never mind they lost $500 billion in seized foreign reserve assets or a couple billion $$ they loaned to Ukraine in 2014. Not to mention they spent the last 20 years investing in the debt of their adversaries to earn 1% interest. The stupidity is limitless.

    It was lower than 500 billion. It was 350 billion euros. They shouldve converted at least part of it to yuans or rubles. Whoever decided to keep Russian state assets in NATO banks deserves execution. Say what you will about the soviets, but they didnt rely on western financial good will at all.

    This is low-altitude penetration bombing

    You can't use the SVP-24 from range as that would require a lot of altitude - and therefore tracking and engagement by air defence systems.
    The SVP-24 or something like it will be used by the Su-35 of course, it will calculate the optimum moment to drop the bombs. They will be quite accurate from this low altitude, even without guidance.

    And for this role many platforms have the capability. Su-24s are particularly optimized for it.
    Su-25s of course, although their max payload is considerably lower, and they won't be able to detect or defend themselves from enemy fighters.

    The problem with using Su-24s or Su-34s however is that if the aircraft is shot down - you can potentially lose 2 pilots instead of 1.

    So I can see some some sense in using Su-35s if the target is some way behind the front-lines

    1 pilot vs 2 pilots. Good point. Proves that decommissioning Su-17s and MiG 27s was a retarded idea. At least they couldve used the MiG-29SMT or Yak-130 .

    Low altitude "penetration". Pentration against what? Ukrainian SAMs which allegedly are almost out and wasted on shaheds amd cruise missiles?

    Those are a lower threat than hundreds of thousands of MANPADs.

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    Post  lancelot Wed Oct 26, 2022 12:29 am

    The Su-35 also has better defenses against anti-air missiles since it comes with MAWS and it features improves stealth characteristics with lower radar signature.

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    Post  lyle6 Wed Oct 26, 2022 12:41 am

    No one, not even the USAF has enough PGM stocks to last a few months servicing the number of aimpoints in a high-intensity conflict such as Ukraine.
    Zero guarantees that the permissible conditions necessary for the optimal operation of these weapons would hold either ex - satellite nav vs EW.

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    Post  VARGR198 Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:05 am

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    Post  DerWolf Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:08 am

    Very few news today, feels like a calm before the storm
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    Post  auslander Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:40 am

    VCO and your's truly being a bit out and about today we specifically looked up, personally, some close friends we haven't seen for a day or three. Everyone we know who has relatives age 18 + two minutes and under 60 has enlisted. Every one. I may not, and can not, tell what I/we will be doing but never forget I'm a native American English speaker with extensive knowledge of western military and VCO speaks fluent American English, VCO well enough to laugh and joke in what to her was a strange language. Think about this statement as you read in 'media' how many thousands are running away from Mother to avoid military activation.

    VCO is O3 and I outrank her. Like that makes any difference in the family schloss.........

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:57 am

    lancelot wrote:The Su-35 also has better defenses against anti-air missiles since it comes with MAWS and it features improves stealth characteristics with lower radar signature.

    This is the main thing. Most portable AA will fail to hit it, because of MAWS and vastly superior CMs.

    Again, keep in mind that when western armies go in (U.S. in short) they terror-bomb everything to smithereens from afar before even considering sending in CAS, and that against enemies with far less AA capability.


    Russia has refrained from all-out "shock and awe", which has been met with hard criticism from its supporters. Rightly so, Russia has had silk gloves on, and suffered unnecessary losses because of it.

    Crazy thing is that western media still treats the extremely careful Russian response as an evil genocidal thing. Any decent military analysts born before 1990 must surely shake their heads, but those voices have been silenced. If it's about Russia, all bizarre superlatives are an immediate go.

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    Post  ucmvulcan Wed Oct 26, 2022 2:22 am

    DerWolf wrote:Very few news today, feels like a calm before the storm

    I agree, an offensive could be imminent.  Also, it seems munitions around Dnipropetrovsk were washing machined within past hour.  So nice that Putin is giving the Nazis some flames to keep warm and study by:

    https://twitter.com/LogKa11/status/1584977749017759744?t=b-2oGMIrgXqhTzrh1Cxnaw&s=19

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    Post  flamming_python Wed Oct 26, 2022 2:30 am

    limb wrote:
    1 pilot vs 2 pilots. Good point. Proves that decommissioning Su-17s and MiG 27s was a retarded idea. At least they couldve used the MiG-29SMT or Yak-130 .

    It wouldn't make too much difference. The disparity in price between a Su-35 and a MiG-29SMT or Yak-130 is not on the order of a magnitude, but more like two-fold.

    Pentration against what? Ukrainian SAMs which allegedly are almost out and wasted on shaheds amd cruise missiles?

    Clearly they're not almost out, if Russian aviation is still mostly active at the lowest-altitudes while cruise missiles take the higher altitudes and the targets further away.

    I'm sure the RuAF would love the freedom to bomb from several thousand metres in the air with SVP-24 controlled dumb bombs, with cheap guided bombs and cheap gliding bombs released perhaps a couple dozen kilometres from their targets.
    But for the moment Ukrainian air defenses still pose enough of a threat.

    Those are a lower threat than hundreds of thousands of MANPADs.

    If you're flying at altitude the MANPADs won't reach you but the various SAM systems will

    If you're flying at the lowest altitudes then you can discount any action by the medium and long-range missile systems such as the Buks, Osas, Strelas and S-300s.
    Even if you fly right above them and they know you're comign, they won't have enough time to lock on and engage you; you'll be out of their engagement window within moments.

    With MANPADs it is possible to engage low-flying jets. Some Su-25s have been brought down that way, reportedly 2 of the Su-34s and the Su-35 that was downed earlier in the war.
    But I suspect more than anything that's due to planes loitering and sticking around, attempting to find targets
    If the pilot knows where to hit, comes in low at speed, releases the bombs and zooms out - it's as improbable for a MANPAD to be able to engage him as it would be for any other system; there won't be the time before the plane disappears beyond the visibility horizon
    So it all comes down to the tactics.

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    Post  JohninMK Wed Oct 26, 2022 2:51 am

    auslander wrote:VCO and your's truly being a bit out and about today we specifically looked up, personally, some close friends we haven't seen for a day or three. Everyone we know who has relatives age 18 + two minutes and under 60 has enlisted. Every one. I may not, and can not, tell what I/we will be doing but never forget I'm a native American English speaker with extensive knowledge of western military and VCO speaks fluent American English, VCO well enough to laugh and joke in what to her was a strange language. Think about this statement as you read in 'media' how many thousands are running away from Mother to avoid military activation.

    VCO is O3 and I outrank her. Like that makes any difference in the family schloss.........

    I read that the numbers were well over 400k.

    We know VCO's linguistic abilities, she should be proud of herself.

    Forgot to ask, how are the books doing?

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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Wed Oct 26, 2022 2:53 am

    What is VCO?

    And 400k of what?
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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Wed Oct 26, 2022 2:54 am

    limb wrote:A russian S-300 or S-400 launcher was destroyed.

    https://twitter.com/Blue_Sauron/status/1583929636500537345

    How the **** do ukrainians locate them and manage to film them with shitty drones?  Why cant russians make lots of wooden decoys liken the ukrainians?

    This is a Ukrainian air defense position. See various videos of the past few weeks. The starter is driven into a box. Only a camouflage network is thrown in a Russian position. To do this, an S-300/S-400 is always protected by TorM2. And US Fuckers would throw a party on the net and celebrate. Because it is simply almost impossible.

    See also snake island. In order to survive TorM2, they had to do everything, really do everything for hours to be successful. And here is a drone and a shelling? On a single starter somewhere in the distant hinterland? Really now?

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    JohninMK
    JohninMK


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 18 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  JohninMK Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:00 am

    The Swedish MoD obviously must have bought too many.

    Visegrád 24
    @visegrad24
    ·
    1h
    BREAKING:

    The Swedish Army has finished its study on how many Archer artillery systems it can transfer to Ukraine without diminishing its own capabilities.

    The answer is 12.

    Two of the parties making up the new center-right government previously said the Archers should be sent


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 18 Ff79H0bXoAAFLs1?format=jpg&name=small


    AZ 🛰🌏🌍🌎
    @AZgeopolitics
    ·
    38m
    🇩🇪💰🇺🇦German president Steinmeier said that he promised Zelensky to transfer 2 MLRS MARS and 4 PzH 2000 self-propelled guns to Ukraine and that Ukraine can count on support on German support

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 18 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

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