Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

PapaDragon wrote:And how many did you persuade?

Millions of people in both the North and the South, including South Vietnamese mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers who allowed the communist NLA cadres to took cover inside their home, or even joined the NLA themselves.

Let me remind you that the number of Heroic Vietnamese Mothers (women whose husband/son were martyred during the war against US invaders) in the South are more numerous than in the North.

PapaDragon wrote:I know that not a single American fell for it

Oh really ?

Anti-war movements in the West at that time was purely commie propaganda then ?

PapaDragon wrote:And those oceans of civilians choosing to risk drowning in order to reach American ships over staying in Red Vietnam speak for themselves

And the majority of Vietnamese people, including ex-Saigon regime officers, stayed in Vietnam speak for themselves.

And the fact that we won the war speak for ourselves. Do you honestly believe that we - normal mortal humans as everybody else - could have won the war against an empire with huge advantage of money, weapon and technology if the people had despised us or if we had talked to the people in the same manner you talked to the Ukrainian people ?

Why are you making our Battlefield Rambo sad, you nasty nasty?

Zelensky talking about a 10 point peace plan of his.

I guess russian attack will happen this week. Next sunday kiev may be encircled and Odessa being under Russian artillery fire.

Sadly PD is quite correct

There's no way to solve this but militarily. Persuasion will not work, there are reasonable Ukrainians about and those who have a clue what has led to this situation, but they're either out of the country or completely passive, as usual.
The active ones are the nationalists and those with a visceral hate for Russia, and there are more and more of them. And this isn't due to anyone's speeches on this forum; it's just the reality of war. Russia has not been stating that it wants to kill em all, about how it loves the smell of napalm in the morning, or bombing civilian houses or any of that stuff - however it makes no difference. The far right in the Ukraine has emerged as an unassailable force, infiltrating all security structures and all aspects of society - and indeed they kill anybody who does try to challenge them anyway. You might as well try to persuade the Saudis to stop being Muslim, even just saying dumb things on the street and counting how long it is before you get into trouble for it.

The Ukrainian commoners have convinced themselves that their existence as a country is at stake. And yes that's true, but only due to the past and continued actions of their own leadership - which leaves Russia no choice as a matter of its own self-defense. If they get rid of the leadership, they solve the problem - they will be able to sign a peace agreement with Russia as long as they order NATO out of their country as well.
They do not realize this or refuse to, as they are simply wrong in all their assumptions. As all their interpretations and points of view have been naive and outright dumb for the past 30 years, reflected in the quality of their political class, and which has led the country to the deterioration over that time that it has.

If Western appetite for the war starts to dissolve or there is a fracture among the Ukrainian elites, the situation can change. Until then, the only persuasion possible is on the battlefield.

Mariupol reconstruction update, with some newly constructed apartment buildings visible