Russian special military operation in Ukraine #47

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Not fair to pin the blame on Surovikin, the guy was told to behave and how to conduct this war from Putin. When your hands are tied and your options greatly limited, well there is limits.

Putin is still clearly saying they fight this war in an uphill manner, the fact Ukraine still has running water in Keiv is an example of this.

I am sure Surovikin has made a mistake here and there and tbf, everyone makes an error in war there is no one with a perfect record that goes for all the greats.

Sure Putin is a decent peacetime leader but he has shown he isn't that capable of a wartime leader. End of the day it starts and ends with him.

Prig while he did say stupid shit, his frustrations with how Putin wanted to wage this war where justified at least.

This isn't stand around a fire and sing brotherly love time with guys who would happily put a bullet in your skull if given the chance, its kill the others guys time and do what you gotta do

That's why there are no volunteers signing up anymore

Also why wagner considering another uprising

Because of what you're saying, Putin is inept as a war leader

And ineptitude doesn't give morale to the soldiers

Why would you want to fight for an army that places a premium on protecting the lives of the enemy over your own?

It's common sense you know?

But Putin is clearly having delusions about it all, he thinks these people understand him or deep down sympathize with him because of the mercy he's shown them

But these people don't care and would happily off Putin if they could

That's why me and many others would never fight for this cause, because if we get hurt , wounded, killed, it's basically in vain, there is no redemption for it

Your life is basically thrown away for Putins delusional view on this conflict

So make your preparations, get your things and get ready to leave because once the draft comes, it will be difficult to leave and you don't want to be the one at the end who's walking through Kharkov or Chernigov without ammo in your rifle, or without functioning radios like the poor 72nd brigade getting slaughtered I'm Andreyevka and Klesheyevka

Or just look at Rabotino now

These people are inept and you will die under their command no doubt about it

Vysoky Govorit:

Regarding the breakthroughs of the Ukrainian, "cracks in the first line", and other things. It must be understood that the Ukrainian’s sensitivity to losses is now minimal - freedom on the Internet is long gone, and thanks to the SBU, people are afraid to discuss sensitive topics, fearing, among other things, insane activists among relatives, friends, colleagues and neighbors who can dramatically complicate life, up to quite real meetings with the SBU. All media about the war work in the same vein - “we are breaking, Muscovites are bending, foreign countries will help us,” public politicians and experts broadcast in the same vein, with rare exceptions. As a result, the average citizen of Ukraine, in principle, cannot assess the scale of the massacre that is taking place, and even if he imagines something, then either psychological protection is turned on here - “it’s necessary to win”, or the fear of one’s own disloyal thoughts.

Those few who are still able to think and analyze independently there live clearly in the position of Orwellian Winston, constantly committing a thought crime and being afraid to give themselves away even with a word.

Under these conditions, the crest will continue to put thousands of corpses for advancing hundreds of meters, and, technically, will eventually come to our first line, after which, in the same style of “zombie attacks”, it will try to gnaw through it.

On our part, the task here is simple: firstly, to continue the defense as it is already being carried out, and as a result, in the fall, the enemy’s offensive will sharply become more complicated and naturally bog down, since it will be more and more difficult to support the attacking units. Secondly, where possible, attack on our own - and in the fall this will add color to what is happening, since reserves will be needed both for the offensive and for defense.

But it’s not worth waiting for “people to run out” and the enemy to stop advancing. They won't run out soon.

https://t.me/SLGmaps/380

#source:
https://t.me/vysokygovorit/

Rabotino from a tactical perspective is a success tbf, The Russians never expected to hold it for this long, I am sure they expected at some point they would have to ditch it.

So when Rabo falls, it shouldn't be a surprise. But this isn't a reflection of Putin more, Russian troops able to do what they have to do because Ukraine is coming at them and Putin's silly war rules don't mean jack shit then.

The 1st line of defense was also meant to fall in time, it was just a bufferzone to take out as much Ukie forces as they could same for the second line it is only when and if they reach the 3rd line that, the russians have to hold that do or die.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Rabotino from a tactical perspective is a success tbf, The Russians never expected to hold it for this long, I am sure they expected at some point they would have to ditch it.

So when Rabo falls, it shouldn't be a surprise. But this isn't a reflection of Putin more, Russian troops able to do what they have to do because Ukraine is coming at them and Putin's silly war rules don't mean jack shit then.

The 1st line of defense was also meant to fall in time, it was just a bufferzone to take out as much Ukie forces as they could same for the second line it is only when and if they reach the 3rd line that, the russians have to hold that do or die.

I can agree to some degree, but even the rules of engagement, it is not treated as a war, and servicemen pay for that

And that is Putin and his orders to generals which has created that

So if you are in Rabotino, they say okay, the 82nd is coming from Orekhov

And why did they have the time to assemble and come to the front line? Why wasn't the location of the equipment and manpower sorted from the air prior to the battle?

So this is what I mean, letting the enemy "come to you" is a way to get servicemen killed and maimed

And so you are at the mercy of these limitations imposed from above

And losing your life or a limb, when the brigade could have been sorted before, is just not worth it

flamming_python wrote:

The converse - going to them, is rife with risk of ambush, booby traps, minefields, counter-attack, over-extension, encirclement, urban warfare, capture and all that other good stuff.

Stay on defense. Play the long game.

Oh and the retarded '3rd option' of just bombing random infrastructure for the hell of it is not going to win any war either. The Germans bombed the hell out of Stalingrad before and during their attempt to capture it, and what did they achieve?
If you're ready to build a mountain of skulls from everyone you find and use it to intimidate the next city into surrender as the Mongols used to do, then yeah it might work, else it's a half-measure even with all that you're willing to do.

Let them do the usual doom stuff they do for 1.5 year.
Nobody serious cares anymore, seeing the results.
The only thing they can do, is run panic when a basket ball size drone from Aliexpress released from the woods flashes up a 200l fuel tank.
Or some made of Scotch and 3M tape remote controlled plane will break a window in some random house ... wherever.
Sometimes I have serious doubts if normal people should hang around with some obviously retarded and mentally ill who fill this place, not being spoiled

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Not fair to pin the blame on Surovikin, the guy was told to behave and how to conduct this war from Putin. When your hands are tied and your options greatly limited, well there is limits.

Putin is still clearly saying they fight this war in an uphill manner, the fact Ukraine still has running water in Keiv is an example of this.

I am sure Surovikin has made a mistake here and there and tbf, everyone makes an error in war there is no one with a perfect record that goes for all the greats.

Sure Putin is a decent peacetime leader but he has shown he isn't that capable of a wartime leader. End of the day it starts and ends with him.

Prig while he did say stupid shit, his frustrations with how Putin wanted to wage this war where justified at least.

This isn't stand around a fire and sing brotherly love time with guys who would happily put a bullet in your skull if given the chance, its kill the others guys time and do what you gotta do

Well we don't know that for sure. Who is dictating the policy and approach. The fact is, its getting FAR more people killed on both sides then necessary IMHO.

mnztr wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Not fair to pin the blame on Surovikin, the guy was told to behave and how to conduct this war from Putin. When your hands are tied and your options greatly limited, well there is limits.

Putin is still clearly saying they fight this war in an uphill manner, the fact Ukraine still has running water in Keiv is an example of this.

I am sure Surovikin has made a mistake here and there and tbf, everyone makes an error in war there is no one with a perfect record that goes for all the greats.

Sure Putin is a decent peacetime leader but he has shown he isn't that capable of a wartime leader. End of the day it starts and ends with him.

Prig while he did say stupid shit, his frustrations with how Putin wanted to wage this war where justified at least.

This isn't stand around a fire and sing brotherly love time with guys who would happily put a bullet in your skull if given the chance, its kill the others guys time and do what you gotta do

Well  we don't know that for sure. Who is dictating the policy and approach. The fact is, its getting FAR more people killed on both sides then necessary IMHO.

This is a proper war, so far nearly two years in and not even a Million KIA is tame, in this point by WW2 you where in the double digits in Millions killed.

Point is on both sides many many more will die.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:
This is a proper war, so far nearly two years in and not even a Million KIA is tame, in this point by WW2 you where in the double digits in Millions killed.

Point is on both sides many many more will die.

Hey Rambo, have you counted the all-NATO planes capable of doing a kill on 300km, so decided to not STFU anymore?
Because I have missed that number, yet you don't STFU.
Explain?

ALAMO wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:
This is a proper war, so far nearly two years in and not even a Million KIA is tame, in this point by WW2 you where in the double digits in Millions killed.

Point is on both sides many many more will die.

Hey Rambo, have you counted the all-NATO planes capable of doing a kill on 300km, so decided to not STFU anymore?
Because I have missed that number, yet you don't STFU.
Explain?

Oh look the child is yapping, The number hasn't reached past 1M KIA yet and that's fact, go act like angry child somewhere else

Arkanghelsk wrote:

I can agree to some degree, but even the rules of engagement,  it is not treated as a war, and servicemen pay for that

And that is Putin and his orders to generals which has created that

So if you are in Rabotino, they say okay, the 82nd is coming from Orekhov

And why did they have the time to assemble and come to the front line? Why wasn't the location of the equipment and manpower sorted from the air prior to the battle?

So this is what I mean, letting the enemy "come to you" is a way to get servicemen killed and maimed

And so you are at the mercy of these limitations imposed from above

And losing your life or a limb, when the brigade could have been sorted before, is just not worth it

Well, only elements of the 82d attacked in piece meal the entire division didn't just rush the line, and Ukraine has learned from their earlier mistakes and groups their assault forces at night to attack in the morning, much harder to detect them at night.

Defending is the best way to keep your losses low and your enemies max, The problem for the Russians is this just keeps things going very very slow progress wise, whereas shock troop tactics etc rushing sure, they get progress much quicker but come at a much more massive cost for the attacker.

Ukraine still has millions of men to go so they are far from running low on manpower the problem with this strat is it depends on the enemy hurling forces at you constantly to get the grinding you really need to deplete the countries manpower. It doesn't matter too much if you weaken a division if the country still has bodies to reinforce it, for a short term gain sure it will matter. But long term that division will get back to full strength, really comes down to just how long do the Russians think they can carry this war on for, eventually, people will get sick of it.

Losses for both sides by The Col the cheerleaders here love to quote for Ukraine is about 450k, and 50k Russians this is pure KIA, not including wounded and unable to fight.

So going by these numbers Ukraine still has a decade's worth of troops to throw at the Russians if the kill rate remains at this pace and as I have said before this war ain't going on for that long.

I suspect at most you will get another 2-3 years out of it

In any case I wouldn't say it's that cut and dry Ukraine doesn't group massive forces together anymore they have learned and adapted, they will lump maybe 10 vehicles together and send it out and Russian airpower simply put cannot be in the air 24/7 and with how Ukraine likes to abuse the night to gather their forces and attack it becomes even harder.

How many AC does Russia have there? they aren't deploying bombers and are mainly using Strike aircraft like SU-34,35 etc and they have to keep a lot of these on alert all around the country, So while they no doubt have more AC then Ukraine in the area. I don't think they have a 100 aircraft in that area ready to go at a moments notice.

And choppers have to remain at a distance and does limit their effectiveness, one KA-52 that got taken out recently got to close and A MANPAD got it for example

All in all Ukraine will probably crack the 1st line which is fine, the 1st line was never meant to hold forever, but I don't see them getting past the second

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

mnztr wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Not fair to pin the blame on Surovikin, the guy was told to behave and how to conduct this war from Putin. When your hands are tied and your options greatly limited, well there is limits.

Putin is still clearly saying they fight this war in an uphill manner, the fact Ukraine still has running water in Keiv is an example of this.

I am sure Surovikin has made a mistake here and there and tbf, everyone makes an error in war there is no one with a perfect record that goes for all the greats.

Sure Putin is a decent peacetime leader but he has shown he isn't that capable of a wartime leader. End of the day it starts and ends with him.

Prig while he did say stupid shit, his frustrations with how Putin wanted to wage this war where justified at least.

This isn't stand around a fire and sing brotherly love time with guys who would happily put a bullet in your skull if given the chance, its kill the others guys time and do what you gotta do

Well  we don't know that for sure. Who is dictating the policy and approach. The fact is, its getting FAR more people killed on both sides then necessary IMHO.

This is a proper war, so far nearly two years in and not even a Million KIA is tame, in this point by WW2 you where in the double digits in Millions killed.

Point is on both sides many many more will die.

Fact is Russia has massive superiority in power and is squandering this advantage while the entire west is given time to build up the supply chain to strip away that advantage. So more and more soldiers from the west will turn this into a crusade against Russia which only has 140m people vs 700m in NATO nations. If this is allowed to continue beyond another year its gets very bleak for Russia.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

Oh look the child is yapping, The number hasn't reached past 1M KIA yet and that's fact, go act like angry child somewhere else

What is the thing you are addressing to, Dumbo?
2+2 still makes struggle?
Sorry for that, it is your whole fucked country that constructs imbeciles. There is no need for natural genetic code stress for it.

FP wrote " No, it's by far the most economical, risk-averse and safe way to destroy the enemy.The converse - going to them, is rife with risk of ambush, booby traps, minefields, counter-attack, over-extension, encirclement, urban warfare, capture and all that other good stuff.Stay on defense. Play the long game.Oh and the retarded '3rd option' of just bombing random infrastructure for the hell of it is not going to win any war either. The Germans bombed the hell out of Stalingrad before and during their attempt to capture it, and what did they achieve? They starved over a million people to death in Leningrad. Did the city fall?If you're ready to build a mountain of skulls from everyone you find and use it to intimidate the next city into surrender as the Mongols used to do, then yeah it might work, else it's a half-measure even with all that you're willing to do. "

Agree about destroying the enemy , as a means to end the war . You don't have to kill the entire male population of serving age , to achieve this . But those troops that are engaged against Russia , must have high attrition rate , to set example to others . If troops feel and get the idea , that they will most probably die , fighting Russia , then the word spreads . Soon there will be mass desertions and people not turning up for call- up . Going to them or offensives , generally have higher attrition rates , so what you say is true . But what if capture of some objective , a Bridge or power station is so very important to the war effort , that it justifies higher casualties ? And we have seen that they are hesitant in big arrow offensives , same as Russia , for good reason . At some point they may be so exhausted by war , that offensives will not be so  costly . Aiming to play the long game , may be unavoidable , but it will not end the war quickly , certainly money is to be made by long war . Also a long war , keeps the extremists in power . I would say aim for as short a war as possible , by inflicting big losses on troops and capturing tactically important targets or regions . Agree that destroying a civilian population , especially here , is useless . The reason is that the extremists are disconnected from the public affairs and are proxy forces . Destroying local infrastructure , will not damage the factories or Bank accounts of the MIC in Europe or America .And Russia can identify constructive political elements and give them a platform . These could be leaders in exile , that agree to exchange territory for peace .

mnztr wrote:


Fact is Russia has massive superiority in power and is squandering this advantage while the entire west is given time to build up the supply chain to strip away that advantage. So more and more soldiers from the west will turn this into a crusade against Russia which only has 140m people vs 700m in NATO nations.  If this is allowed to continue beyond another year its gets very bleak for Russia.

Yes this, My advice was to refrain from direct assaults on Ukraine. Merely using skirmishing forces to keep the Russians pinned and keep the main forces back to merely counterattack any russian assaults, this would give time for the supply chain to be built that needs to be built and it would slowly the Russian people will lose the urge to fight the war.

But Zelen is a fool who thinks victory must come with some great battle, when really time is on your side not the Russians so play into that even more so when your enemy wants you to attack them, no you let them come into you, lose lots of guys and let the people question "why are we doing this?"

But hey comedians will do what they will do.

I know the cheerleaders will get pissy for me saying these words but once enough blood is flowing people will question why and once they start questioning why, comes dissent and fracture.

So Mein Führer I see you still believe that the 4th Reich is winning this thing!?

Tragicomedy at it's best

Mir wrote:So Mein Führer I see you still believe that the 4th Reich is winning this thing!?

Tragicomedy at it's best    

Das war ein Befehl!!!!

the Ukrainians broke through the first and main defense line of the Russian army on the southern section of the front

They didn´t even reach her. Where is that guy getting his info from? The Ukro MoD? 

the Russian army failed to mine the other two reserve lines of defense in the same way, and to build adequate fortified facilities, anti-tank trenches and dragon's teeth.

So he can´t even interpret sat pics correctly. And he never heard of remote mine-laying. 

 the Russian army has largely exhausted its reserves on the southern part of the front

Sure. Somebody has the number of that dude? I got a bridge to sell. My nigerian Uncle build her. 

them from getting to the warehouse.

Bombing one warehouse is much more effective than bombing 200+ civilian trucks.

But it’s not worth waiting for “people to run out” and the enemy to stop advancing. They won't run out soon.

They are already running out. F.ck, kidnapping some random 50+ year old dude from the street and putting him into some uniform doesn´t make him a soldier.
Even if you can get 10.000 such guys, without armored vehicles and artillery with more than 10 rounds per day they´re nothing more than dead meat.

Hole wrote:
They are already running out. F.ck, kidnapping some random 50+ year old dude from the street and putting him into some uniform doesn´t make him a soldier.
Even if you can get 10.000 such guys, without armored vehicles and artillery with more than 10 rounds per day they´re nothing more than dead meat.

The point is that he has not seen that.
Two weeks ago, some French TV showed material from Odessa, how they hunt for males and dig them out from the streets with a comment that it is ... Moscow ...
They really are so desperate.
Somehow I can't blame our Rambo/Dumbo for his comments. If he has a good day, or his more brilliant ego takes a duty.
The thing jumps out of a box, a usual Murican can't get the whole concept of kidnapping folks from the street and sending them to the meatgrinder.
He simply can't get that.

lyle6 wrote:

mnztr wrote:
Fact is Russia has massive superiority in power and is squandering this advantage while the entire west is given time to build up the supply chain to strip away that advantage. So more and more soldiers from the west will turn this into a crusade against Russia which only has 140m people vs 700m in NATO nations.  If this is allowed to continue beyond another year its gets very bleak for Russia.

What buildup?

NATO can't even supply Ukraine with body bags fast enough to keep up with the amount of killing the Russians are doing per day.

You think you can match Russia in equipment and supplies.

Thats the same hubris that got NATO into this mess. Fact is the numbers don't lie. Ammo and weapons production will ramp up in all NATO nations. Yes in the long run it can match and exceed Russia. Why not? why can't 700m people out produce 140m? Who has a larger navy? Who has more jet fighters? Even today. And they are doing it while giving everyone enough food to turn into giant blobs.

What really lead to the defeat of germany and Japan? In Germany in WWI OIL. Take away the fucking OIL. If you can stop the oil from flowing its over. Yet somehow Russia still sends oil through Ukrainian pipelines.

Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation (25 August 2023)

Last night, the Russian Navy has launched a strike with long-range, sea-based precision weapons against a port infrastructure facility used in the interests of the AFU.

The goal of the attack has been reached. The facility has been neutralised.

In Donetsk direction, units of the Yug Group of Forces repelled 3 attacks by the AFU close to Zaliznyanskoye, Kleshcheevka, and Staromikhailovka DPR.

The enemy losses were up to 260 servicemen killed and wounded, 1 tank, 2 IFVs, 2 motor vehicles, 1 Krab self-propelled artillery system, and 2 D-20 howitzers.

In Kupyansk direction, units of the Zapad Group of Forces repelled 3 attacks by 47th mechanised and 68th jaeger brigades of the AFU close to Sinkovka (Kharkov) and Sergeevka LPR.

The enemy losses were up to 50 servicemen, 2 tanks, 3 IFVs, 2 pickup trucks, and 1 D-20 howitzer.

In Zaporozhye direction, as a result of actions by Russian units, 5 enemy attacks have been repelled.

The enemy losses were up to 110 servicemen, 2 Bradley IFVs, 2 Stryker APCs, 4 motor vehicles, 3 M777 artillery systems, as well as2 FH-70 guns.

1 AFU field ammunition depot has been destroyed near Rabotino (Zaporozhye).

In South Donetsk direction, units of the Vostok Group of Forces repelled 1 enemy attack close to Sladkoye DPR.

Units of the 38th Marine Brigade of the Ukrainian Navy have been eliminated near Urozhaynoye DPR.

Actions of 2 SRGs of the 31st Marine Brigade of the AFU have been suppressed near Priyutnoye (Zaporozhye).

The enemy losses were up to 125 servicemen, 3 motor vehicles, 1 Krab self-propelled artillery system, 2 M777 artillery systems, 2 Msta-B, and 1 D-20 howitzers, 1 Gvozdika self-propelled artillery system, as well as 1 AN/TPQ-36 counter-battery radar station.

In Krasny Liman direction, as a result of actions of units of the Tsentr Group of Forces, 1 attack by the 42nd Mechanised Brigade of the AFU has been repelled close to Kuzmino LPR.

Units of 63rd, 67th mechanised brigades of the AFU and the 5th Brigade of the Ukrainian National Guard have been eliminated close to Chervonaya Dibrova LPR, Torskoye and Grigorovka DPR.

The enemy losses were up to 80 servicemen, 4 AFVs, and 2 pickup trucks.

In Kherson direction, the enemy losses were up to 50 servicemen, 3 motor vehicles, 1 M777 artillery system, as well as Msta-B and D-30 howitzers.

Operational-Tactical and Army aviation, Missile Troops and Artillery of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation have neutralised manpower and military hardware in 147 areas.

Fighter Aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces have shot down 1 AFU Su-25 aircraft near Semyonovka DPR.

Air defence facilities have shot down 1 Su-25 aircraft near Zolotaya Balka (Kherson), 6 HIMARS MLRS and 1 HARM surface-to-air radar system projectiles, as well as 1 S-200 SAM system missile, modified in a strike version.

73 UAVs have been intercepted and suppressed by electronic warfare means close to Olshana (Kharkov), Shishkovo LPR, Berestovoye, Golmovsky DPR, Vasilyevka, Sladkaya Balka, Inzhinernoye and Zhovtnyovoye (Zaporozhye).

@Slavyangrad

mnztr wrote:

lyle6 wrote:

mnztr wrote:
Fact is Russia has massive superiority in power and is squandering this advantage while the entire west is given time to build up the supply chain to strip away that advantage. So more and more soldiers from the west will turn this into a crusade against Russia which only has 140m people vs 700m in NATO nations.  If this is allowed to continue beyond another year its gets very bleak for Russia.

What buildup?

NATO can't even supply Ukraine with body bags fast enough to keep up with the amount of killing the Russians are doing per day.

You think you can match Russia in equipment and supplies.

Thats the same hubris that got NATO into this mess. Fact is the numbers don't lie. Ammo and weapons production will ramp up in all NATO nations. Yes in the long run it can match and exceed Russia. Why not? why can't 700m people out produce 140m? Who has a larger navy? Who has more jet fighters? Even today. And they are doing it while giving everyone enough food to turn into giant blobs.

Your wasting your time trying to explain logic to the cheerleaders