Russian special military operation in Ukraine #47

My only guess is that Russia is letting Ukraine wear itself down in their counter offensive, then when Ukraine pulls back to rebuild, Russia will go on the offensive.

Otherwise, they can't keep doing this forever. Eventually troops back home get exhausted, and so does the population.

I have already come to the conclusion that most of you here, who have no actual experience in warfare or conflicts, just want Russia to commit some kind of Genocide. Just start killing en mass everyone around them. Thinking that will solve this conflict. All it will do is just stir more dangerous conflicts too and make Russia isolated.

mnztr wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I have already come to the conclusion that most of you here, who have no actual experience in warfare or conflicts, just want Russia to commit some kind of Genocide.  Just start killing en mass everyone around them.  Thinking that will solve this conflict.  All it will do is just stir more dangerous conflicts too and make Russia isolated.

Not at all from my point of view.  Its not necessary or helpful. But allowing all the supply chain to keep operating so smoothly is absurd.

It isn't though. But whatever. Because some equipment does go through, you think it is running smooth. But reality is very different.

They have to smuggle all the gear in via civilian trucks and there are constant trucks going through the boarders daily. So I guess if Russia wants to start smoking civilians directly in attempts that at least 2 out of the 6 trucks they hit, is carrying mil equipment.

sepheronx wrote:I have already come to the conclusion that most of you here, who have no actual experience in warfare or conflicts, just want Russia to commit some kind of Genocide.  Just start killing en mass everyone around them.  Thinking that will solve this conflict.  All it will do is just stir more dangerous conflicts too and make Russia isolated.

I by and large agree with you. Genocide must be avoided at all costs. So far the total number of confirmed civilian deaths has been blessedly low. IMVHO that gives Russia one of many moral high grounds in this conflict. However, while genocide should be avoided at all costs, I have no problem with a complete flattening of all Ukrainian government buildings, military bases, airports and airfields, factories, warehouses, harbor facilities, bridges, railroad junctions and rail yards, tunnels, communications infrastructure and news media. It is possible to surgically flatten infrastructure and keep civilian deaths and injuries at very low levels. In fact Russia has already been doing exactly this over the past several months. I think the game Putin is playing is to say, you still have this much infrastructure. You come to the table now and you get to keep it. You don't well its destruction lands on the next orders.

So are you saying Russia is incompetent in the fights and not doing a good enough job that you can do? I don't have to be a prick to tell you there is a lot more going on than you may not know. Otherwise, if it was that easy, they would be doing just that. But you know better than a country.

its great to do that, but much better to prevent them from getting to the warehouse.

Getting them at the warehouse is best because with a few missiles you get them all at once and anything else stored in that warehouse too because ammo will explode and burn and ensure the destruction of other equipment like vehicles and tanks which would otherwise only receive minor damage if hit on the way.

(A Self propelled artillery piece is not loaded with ammo or fuelled during transit... it is only on the front line where it gets fuel and ammo so a small HEAT round can ignite it and blow it to smitherens. On the back of a train that same HEAT warhead will punch a hole and start a small fire that might just burn out because of lack of proper fuel...)

Stacking thousands of rockets and rounds of artillery ammo and propellent charges together in a warehouse together with tanks and uniforms and flak jackets and radios and drones means starting a fire can destroy it all... one weapon could do it.

Sure Putin is a decent peacetime leader but he has shown he isn't that capable of a wartime leader. End of the day it starts and ends with him.

In comparison to who?

I mean he did seem to sort out their Chechen problem which everyone was claiming was a conflict of Afghanistan proportions that would never end either.

Did he go all hard core and kill them all like some are suggesting here... when talking about Chechens and Ukrainians and Russians, these are people who fought Hitler and won against all the odds... do you honestly think HATO will win?

Which current western political leader do you rate better than Putin and what is that based upon... performance in Afghanistan? Performance in Syria or Libya or Iraq or Iran... or how about Somalia or Yemen?

Because of what you're saying, Putin is inept as a war leader

And ineptitude doesn't give morale to the soldiers

Funny you say that because there does not seem to be a shortage of Chechens volunteering despite Putin being in charge...

Maybe some Russians enjoy a comfortable lifestyle but don't think they should have to fight for it... and I would argue the amount Russia gave during the Second World War it is a crime that the west are making them fight again for their own stupid games, but this fight is a necessary fight and Putin did everything he could to avoid it.

Now he is doing everything he can to minimise the damage it does to Russia and the lives it costs Russia... but you go ahead and hate him for that... I doubt he cares about one or two not understanding.

But Putin is clearly having delusions about it all, he thinks these people understand him or deep down sympathize with him because of the mercy he's shown them

But these people don't care and would happily off Putin if they could

Those people you are talking about don't matter to Putin or to Russia... taking the softly softly approach or destroying the country one blade of grass at a time wont make any difference to the people responsible for this conflict they are miles away tucked up safe and warm.

Putin is showing mercy because he is a human being, but ask the idiots on the front line for the orcs about how much mercy they receive from Russian artillery and drones and air power, and you will find his mercy is selective.

That's why me and many others would never fight for this cause, because if we get hurt , wounded, killed, it's basically in vain, there is no redemption for it

The irony is that if he was fighting this war the way you want him to you would already have been called up and would be pushing the Orcs forces back slowly but painfully losing rather more Russian soldiers in the process.

The people claiming this will speed up the war can only claim that because they think the alternative is wiping out the entire Ukrainian population... but that is not needed as well as not being possible.

When western support for this conflict ends the conflict will end and US support wont last until the next US election because one thing Americans hate is a forever war... Vietnam was the first one, but if it came down to the US MIC they would still be in Afghanistan... part of what Trump got elected for was to pull the US out of pointless wars that don't make the US safer... fighting in Afghanistan is not making the US safer but neither is US troops in Syria or Ukraine... or many places in Africa...

If Trump gets elected he might even pull out of HATO... imagine the billions the US taxpayers will save...

But it’s not worth waiting for “people to run out” and the enemy to stop advancing. They won't run out soon.

They wont keep fighting till they run out, they will fold well before that... As pro nazi zealots diminish in number a few more sensible heads will get positions of power and start to wonder how long the US is going to keep using Slavs vs Slavs until there are no Slavs yet those yanks might say... I wonder if those Ukrainians have properly thought this all through... the Afghans that helped the US and HATO forces against the Taliban and ISIS were largely left behind to their fate and such treatment sadly was not unique for the west to drop like a hot rock those they relied on during combat...

Some good news hopefully…

That is what Kiev says, so why would we think that was true?

Thats the same hubris that got NATO into this mess. Fact is the numbers don't lie. Ammo and weapons production will ramp up in all NATO nations. Yes in the long run it can match and exceed Russia. Why not? why can't 700m people out produce 140m? Who has a larger navy? Who has more jet fighters? Even today. And they are doing it while giving everyone enough food to turn into giant blobs.

So why did the US led HATO force leave Afghanistan... surely they outproduced the Taliban by a wide margin.

The size of their navy is not relevant when the Ukrainian navy is on the bottom of the Black Sea, and what jet fighters... they arrive they take off and most of the time they are shot down.

Just look at the videos of ammo dumps and fuel dumps destroyed by Russian attacks... those are shells and rockets and litres of fuel that have zero use, despite the enormous price the west will be charging them, despite all the fuel and vehicles used to get them from the border to the front line...

Prigozin had the right to complain in public because he was not a soldier, he was a mercenary outfit owner

Your assimilation is coming on nicely PapaD, you have mastered the belief that civilians have rights to complain in open media about war related things in war time... just keep in mind that such rights exist only in Russia and only for anyone opposed to Putin... such rights are null and void when discussing Manning or Snowden or Assange or any such dissidents who compromise western secrets and indeed crimes.

This doesn't mean that I don't think the war has to be sped up and Russia has to go for big arrow encirclements, wipe out all decision making centers ect

The real question is will this war act like a hollywood rope or a real rope...

The hollywood rope you see some minor damage on the rope when everyone gets on and over time a strand at a time one breaks after another and by the time the heros realise there is trouble half the strands are broken, but with hollywood ropes those last few strands are actually as strong as the original intact rope so even when there is only one or two strands left the rope holds and the heroes desperately search for a solution... and then the last strand breaks and the hero leaps the remaining gap to safety and either makes it or dies trying depending on which part of the story it is from.

Real ropes often just break... there might be damage and fraying, but when it breaks it breaks suddenly and with little warning...

Opposition to the conflict was always there and it will be growing and gathering strength and as more truth is revealed the harder it will be for Zelensky and his goons to keep the truth hidden. The US election will lead to opposition members to talk about how pointless and how expensive and how dangerous this conflict is to the American taxpayer that should be funding more important things that actually effect American lives every day instead of this circus.

This will mean Ukrainians are going to be confronted with a bit more reality than they are used to and for a while it will be a shock, but then anger and a realisation that offers of peace that Putin has been talking about need to be begged for before it is too late...

Personally I think the longer they leave it the better the future for the people on the ground and for Russia.

If Russia got a million men under arms, they could do large encirclements.

We have been watching the defense strategy for a year now. The retards keep coming and coming.

Except with Russia flooding the battlefield with soldiers and equipment and moving forward then the Orcs can do what they have been training to do... stay behind sabotage forces to hit rear units and supply dumps and ammo dumps and HQs... all the weak rear area locations that wont fight back so hard as front line troops.

And of course mines...

In fact Russia has already been doing exactly this over the past several months. I think the game Putin is playing is to say, you still have this much infrastructure. You come to the table now and you get to keep it. You don't well its destruction lands on the next orders.

If Russia destroys everything then what can they do to escalate when an Orc drone sneaks through and hits a ship or a bridge... the way he is running this it means when the Orcs hit the bridge the lights go out and electricity maintenance becomes a problem on their side of the battle lines...

If you look at most Red Army offensives during ww2, you'll see that most of the time the Red Army had 3 to 1 numerical advantage over the Wehrmacht in both manpower and materiel.

Except in this conflict they had a numerical disadvantage that was quite significant and required they hold territory around Kiev and seem prepared to attack Odessa to keep the Orc forces spread over the entire country rather than being able to concentrate them in the East.

With air control the numbers needed are not the same in a modern war.

That is only about the economy, and we haven't started to consider the human factor yet.

Wonder how Poland would react if it knew how many Poles have gone to see Bandera...

They say the truth is the first victim in any war... when the west starts to hear the truth from politicians in the US running for election then it is going to be rather harder to justify sending all that money and all those weapons and all that ammo to such a lost cause... especially at a time when the wests own military are so poorly neglected and stripped of weapons and ammo to supply Ukraine... to no obvious or significant effect.