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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #47

    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:55 pm

    https://t.me/milinfolive/105585?single
    Yesterday, two Ukrainian MiG-29 fighters collided in the sky over the Zhytomyr region, local media reported about this, almost immediately deleting the news about the incident. At a minimum, there are dead among the crews, this is confirmed in social networks.

    One of the pilots was a well-known Twitter pilot under the nickname Juice_Fighter, who was waiting for his turn on the F-16.

    Military Informant

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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:00 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote: ....
    I am sure Surovikin has made a mistake here and there and tbf, everyone makes an error in war there is no one with a perfect record that goes for all the greats.
    ......
    Prig while he did say stupid shit, his frustrations with how Putin wanted to wage this war where justified at least......

    Prigozin had the right to complain in public because he was not a soldier, he was a mercenary outfit owner

    Incompetent mercenary outfit owner hence the public complaining (mercenaries are supposed to be discreet and disposable) but still just that and as such he did have that right

    What he didn't have right to do was to attempt a coup d'etat

    After that he should have been put down like a rabbid dog and it was long overdue, state failed so VKS had to step in and do their duty



    Surovikin is a different story, he is a soldier in an actual military and is fully bound by law, constitution and chain of command

    His duty was to follow orders to the letter and if he didn't like those orders he was free to either resign his commission or refuse those orders and await military court verdict

    What he absolutely cannot do is to make up his own orders, especially when it involves commiting high treason by taking part in coup d'etat

    And since he is not a mercenary but a soldier in a nation's military the only possible punishment for treason is the rope

    And if the state is still dragging their feet on implementing it's own laws then it's the sign of a state being weak and failing



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    Post  Regular Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:37 am

    mnztr wrote:What really lead to the defeat of germany and Japan? In Germany in WWI  OIL. Take away the fucking OIL. If you can stop the oil from flowing its over. Yet somehow Russia still sends oil through Ukrainian pipelines. dunno tongue
    And Ukraine sells titanium to Russia… I guess they feel sorry for Ka-52s that they shot down and want more burning Leopards and Bradleys

    https://www.kyivpost.com/post/20296

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    Post  Backman Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:53 am

    mnztr wrote:


    Thats the same hubris that got NATO into this mess. Fact is the numbers don't lie. Ammo and weapons production will ramp up in all NATO nations. Yes in the long run it can match and exceed Russia. Why not? why can't 700m people out produce 140m? Who has a larger navy? Who has more jet fighters? Even today. And they are doing it while giving everyone enough food to turn into giant blobs.

    The war has been going for a year and a half already. That is not an insignificant amount of time. And the production efforts have been pretty underwhelming.

    You are living in the WW2 mindset like most America stronkists. The 140 million vs 700 million doesnt make sense in a US centered hyper globalized world where the US's main job in the process is to print the money. Show us in 6 months, all these industrial plants that the US has converted to war material. Plus China is more on Russia's side than the wests side. So we can just say 1 billion+ vs 700 million using your logic

    This doesn't mean that I don't think the war has to be sped up and Russia has to go for big arrow encirclements, wipe out all decision making centers ect

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    Post  Backman Sat Aug 26, 2023 1:22 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    So this is what I mean, letting the enemy "come to you" is a way to get servicemen killed and maimed

    No, it's by far the most economical, risk-averse and safe way to destroy the enemy.

    The converse - going to them, is rife with risk of ambush, booby traps, minefields, counter-attack, over-extension, encirclement, urban warfare, capture and all that other good stuff.

    Stay on defense. Play the long game.

    .

    I think this is a very debatable point. If Russia got a million men under arms, they could do large encirclements.

    We have been watching the defense strategy for a year now. The retards keep coming and coming.
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    Post  Firebird Sat Aug 26, 2023 1:30 am

    caveat emptor wrote:https://t.me/milinfolive/105585?single
    Yesterday, two Ukrainian MiG-29 fighters collided in the sky over the Zhytomyr region, local media reported about this, almost immediately deleting the news about the incident.  At a minimum, there are dead among the crews, this is confirmed in social networks.

    One of the pilots was a well-known Twitter pilot under the nickname Juice_Fighter, who was waiting for his turn on the F-16.

    Military Informant

    😂

    What a bunch of toilets the Bandera-stanis are.
    There's little more than 2 Mig 29s left in the whole of Banderastan.
    Talk about world class levels of idiocy.
    Couldn't have happened to a "nicer" bunch.

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    Post  mnztr Sat Aug 26, 2023 1:51 am

    Backman wrote:
    mnztr wrote:


    Thats the same hubris that got NATO into this mess. Fact is the numbers don't lie. Ammo and weapons production will ramp up in all NATO nations. Yes in the long run it can match and exceed Russia. Why not? why can't 700m people out produce 140m? Who has a larger navy? Who has more jet fighters? Even today. And they are doing it while giving everyone enough food to turn into giant blobs.

    The war has been going for a year and a half already. That is not an insignificant amount of time. And the production efforts have been pretty underwhelming.

    You are living in the WW2 mindset like most America stronkists. The 140 million vs 700 million doesnt make sense in a US centered hyper globalized world where the US's main job in the process is to print the money.  Show us in 6 months, all these industrial plants that the US has converted to war material. Plus China is more on Russia's side than the wests side. So we can just say 1 billion+ vs 700 million using your logic

    This doesn't mean that I don't think the war has to be sped up and Russia has to go for big arrow encirclements, wipe out all decision making centers ect


    Yes the war has been going on for 2 years, but you have to roll back 12m and see that NATO thought they were making good progress. Russia abandoned large tracts of occupied land. Russia had a mobilization all those indicators of stress. So they thought Russia was on the ropes. Now the reality is setting in. But the assumption that Russia has unlimited ammo is also wrong. I doubt the visit to N. Korea was just a howdy trip. So while Russia has much higher ammo production, its still not enough feed all the hungry tubes in an offensive. Perhaps they can marshal enough ammo to deliver a killer blow. Not sure. Based on their force composition they can only win by closing the border and then mobilize more troops for occupation. Also you need to realize that NATO has a doctrine that Ukraine cannot implement. It revolves around air supremacy. I have serious doubts they can gain this over Russia, but the fact is, we don't really know. China will not want to fully involve itself. Of course if China joins on Russias side that is a massive gain. But they would prefer to not go there.
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    Post  caveat emptor Sat Aug 26, 2023 2:00 am

    Apropos war strategy:
    https://t.me/boris_rozhin/95852?single

    Why is the Kremenchug Oil Refinery still operating?

    Despite the statement about the "destruction" of the oil refinery in Kremenchug, he continues his work.  So on the first satellite photo of the production area, the working GK-3 units (red-orange color) are clearly visible.

    GK-3 is a combined unit for primary oil refining, gasoline secondary distillation, fuel oil vacuum distillation and catalytic cracking.  The unit produces almost the entire range of light oil products - motor gasoline, diesel fuel, jet fuel and much more.

    It is worth saying that before the NWO, the plant was the only operating oil refinery in Ukraine, operating at about 16% of its design capacity, processing about 3 million tons of oil per year.  Taking into account the loss already during the special operation of other plants, the Kremenchug Oil Refinery was actually the only one in the whole of Ukraine.

    On three satellite images from 08/02/23 to 08/17/23 the entire territory of the enterprise is clearly visible.  There was no visual confirmation of the destruction of the most important installations for the production of fuel - moreover, it is clearly visible that all the tanks are intact, including their accumulation on the territory of the fuel and raw material base of the plant.

    And the last series of satellite images - thermal anomalies in the area for almost two months.  On the territory of the plant, they are clearly visible - this indicates that the enterprise continues its work.  Thermal anomalies are presented from July 14 to August 24 (two weeks for each image).

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #47 - Page 33 Img_2149Russian special military operation in Ukraine #47 - Page 33 Img_2148Russian special military operation in Ukraine #47 - Page 33 Img_2147
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    Post  Backman Sat Aug 26, 2023 3:24 am

    ^ This war is impossible to figure out. Maybe there's some secret agreements that the the chubs will leave the pipelines intact if Russia doesn't hit that refinery. 

    Whatever it is , anything that allows Ukraine to continue to assemble troops and equipment costs Russia lives. The problem is , there is too many targets to hit. 

    Some on the Russian side seem gun shy about big arrows because of the start of the war. The start of the wasn't a big arrow offensives. It was something different. 

    The US will just build another army and repeat this whole process all over again. That won't break Russia or anything but it is tedious and Russia doesn't need this bullshit. 

    Russia has no choice but to go on big arrow offensives
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Aug 26, 2023 3:56 am

    My only guess is that Russia is letting Ukraine wear itself down in their counter offensive, then when Ukraine pulls back to rebuild, Russia will go on the offensive.

    Otherwise, they can't keep doing this forever. Eventually troops back home get exhausted, and so does the population.

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    Post  Backman Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:02 am

    Mark Sleboda is quite negative about the Black sea situation. Starts around 40, 50 min mark. Russia should have just sunk a half dozen commercial ships after the grain deal to make it clear. They still can.

    He also says that these water drones could be being built and deployed from Romania into the Danube. Which is probably true. What does Russia do about that ?

    The grain deal was a tenuous situation but no grain deal is too. Until Russia starts to be more brazen than the US , this will just continue. 


    https://www.youtube.com/live/rpOL7SK1RCw?si=YqBmQ6K5l3ql_G0x
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:29 am

    I have already come to the conclusion that most of you here, who have no actual experience in warfare or conflicts, just want Russia to commit some kind of Genocide. Just start killing en mass everyone around them. Thinking that will solve this conflict. All it will do is just stir more dangerous conflicts too and make Russia isolated.

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    Post  mnztr Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:37 am

    caveat emptor wrote:Apropos war strategy:
    https://t.me/boris_rozhin/95852?single

    Why is the Kremenchug Oil Refinery still operating?

    Despite the statement about the "destruction" of the oil refinery in Kremenchug, he continues his work.  So on the first satellite photo of the production area, the working GK-3 units (red-orange color) are clearly visible.

    GK-3 is a combined unit for primary oil refining, gasoline secondary distillation, fuel oil vacuum distillation and catalytic cracking.  The unit produces almost the entire range of light oil products - motor gasoline, diesel fuel, jet fuel and much more.

    It is worth saying that before the NWO, the plant was the only operating oil refinery in Ukraine, operating at about 16% of its design capacity, processing about 3 million tons of oil per year.  Taking into account the loss already during the special operation of other plants, the Kremenchug Oil Refinery was actually the only one in the whole of Ukraine.

    On three satellite images from 08/02/23 to 08/17/23 the entire territory of the enterprise is clearly visible.  There was no visual confirmation of the destruction of the most important installations for the production of fuel - moreover, it is clearly visible that all the tanks are intact, including their accumulation on the territory of the fuel and raw material base of the plant.

    And the last series of satellite images - thermal anomalies in the area for almost two months.  On the territory of the plant, they are clearly visible - this indicates that the enterprise continues its work.  Thermal anomalies are presented from July 14 to August 24 (two weeks for each image).

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    Allowing this refinery to operate is pretty much treason. It would take 2 glide bombs to put it out of action. W T F .
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    Post  mnztr Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:40 am

    sepheronx wrote:I have already come to the conclusion that most of you here, who have no actual experience in warfare or conflicts, just want Russia to commit some kind of Genocide.  Just start killing en mass everyone around them.  Thinking that will solve this conflict.  All it will do is just stir more dangerous conflicts too and make Russia isolated.

    Not at all from my point of view. Its not necessary or helpful. But allowing all the supply chain to keep operating so smoothly is absurd.
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    Post  mnztr Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:41 am

    sepheronx wrote:My only guess is that Russia is letting Ukraine wear itself down in their counter offensive, then when Ukraine pulls back to rebuild, Russia will go on the offensive.

    Otherwise, they can't keep doing this forever. Eventually troops back home get exhausted, and so does the population.

    well I hear that is the plan. Lets hope so and lets hope it goes well. I am exhausted
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:46 am

    mnztr wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I have already come to the conclusion that most of you here, who have no actual experience in warfare or conflicts, just want Russia to commit some kind of Genocide.  Just start killing en mass everyone around them.  Thinking that will solve this conflict.  All it will do is just stir more dangerous conflicts too and make Russia isolated.

    Not at all from my point of view.  Its not necessary or helpful. But allowing all the supply chain to keep operating so smoothly is absurd.

    It isn't though. But whatever. Because some equipment does go through, you think it is running smooth. But reality is very different.

    They have to smuggle all the gear in via civilian trucks and there are constant trucks going through the boarders daily. So I guess if Russia wants to start smoking civilians directly in attempts that at least 2 out of the 6 trucks they hit, is carrying mil equipment.

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    Post  ucmvulcan Sat Aug 26, 2023 6:51 am

    sepheronx wrote:I have already come to the conclusion that most of you here, who have no actual experience in warfare or conflicts, just want Russia to commit some kind of Genocide.  Just start killing en mass everyone around them.  Thinking that will solve this conflict.  All it will do is just stir more dangerous conflicts too and make Russia isolated.

    I by and large agree with you. Genocide must be avoided at all costs. So far the total number of confirmed civilian deaths has been blessedly low. IMVHO that gives Russia one of many moral high grounds in this conflict. However, while genocide should be avoided at all costs, I have no problem with a complete flattening of all Ukrainian government buildings, military bases, airports and airfields, factories, warehouses, harbor facilities, bridges, railroad junctions and rail yards, tunnels, communications infrastructure and news media. It is possible to surgically flatten infrastructure and keep civilian deaths and injuries at very low levels. In fact Russia has already been doing exactly this over the past several months. I think the game Putin is playing is to say, you still have this much infrastructure. You come to the table now and you get to keep it. You don't well its destruction lands on the next orders.

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    Post  mnztr Sat Aug 26, 2023 8:02 am

    ucmvulcan wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I have already come to the conclusion that most of you here, who have no actual experience in warfare or conflicts, just want Russia to commit some kind of Genocide.  Just start killing en mass everyone around them.  Thinking that will solve this conflict.  All it will do is just stir more dangerous conflicts too and make Russia isolated.

    I by and large agree with you.  Genocide must be avoided at all costs.  So far the total number of confirmed civilian deaths has been blessedly low.  IMVHO that gives Russia one of many moral high grounds in this conflict.  However, while genocide should be avoided at all costs, I have no problem with a complete flattening of all Ukrainian government buildings, military bases, airports and airfields, factories, warehouses, harbor facilities, bridges, railroad junctions and rail yards, tunnels, communications infrastructure and news media.  It is possible to surgically flatten infrastructure and keep civilian deaths and injuries at very low levels.  In fact Russia has already been doing exactly this over the past several months.  I think the game Putin is playing is to say, you still have this much infrastructure.  You come to the table now and you get to keep it.  You don't well its destruction lands on the next orders.


    Russias economy with civilian lives is an absolute revolution in precision strikes. Their weapons have performed impressively.

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    Post  Backman Sat Aug 26, 2023 8:20 am

    sepheronx wrote:I have already come to the conclusion that most of you here, who have no actual experience in warfare or conflicts, just want Russia to commit some kind of Genocide.  Just start killing en mass everyone around them.  Thinking that will solve this conflict.  All it will do is just stir more dangerous conflicts too and make Russia isolated.

    Listen to the Sleboda interview. My point about sinking cargo ships is directly related to that. Everything is pretty fuct in the black sea right now. It is basically a grey zone. Russia might not be able to insure it's own ships that go through the black sea because of the drones. While Nato is sneaking it's own cargo ship through. If Russia sunk a couple Nato cargo ships , it would be lights out for insurance for them. And probably end Nato shipping all together there
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Aug 26, 2023 8:23 am

    So are you saying Russia is incompetent in the fights and not doing a good enough job that you can do? I don't have to be a prick to tell you there is a lot more going on than you may not know. Otherwise, if it was that easy, they would be doing just that. But you know better than a country.

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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Sat Aug 26, 2023 8:41 am

    If you look at most Red Army offensives during ww2, you'll see that most of the time the Red Army had 3 to 1 numerical advantage over the Wehrmacht in both manpower and materiel.

    Now the Russian army is trying to attack without significant numerical advantage.

    Maybe it's time to use Russia's demographic advantage to the fullest?

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    Post  ALAMO Sat Aug 26, 2023 9:38 am

    mnztr wrote:
    Fact is Russia has massive superiority in power and is squandering this advantage while the entire west is given time to build up the supply chain to strip away that advantage. So more and more soldiers from the west will turn this into a crusade against Russia which only has 140m people vs 700m in NATO nations.  If this is allowed to continue beyond another year its gets very bleak for Russia.

    Sure that's right, yet you have missed a tiny point.
    The cost of that.
    All NATO countries are deep in debt. The construction of a surplus budget is unknown to them. Europe as a whole has an energy deficit and lacks a serious part of resources.
    Russkie have a surplus budget for a while now. Their debt is smaller than accumulated reserves and mostly internal. They have an energy surplus and every single resource they can need.
    Russias purchasing power is multiple times more than the west, and if you combine it with their allies that have even higher PPP leverage, the thing starts to be ridiculous.
    In theory, 700 mln high technology economy should outrun them in a short time. In reality, they can't. Can't afford that. Nobody will finance that, because they don't have the money. For Europe, any military production will be even more expensive than it was.
    Poland is buying military hardware in Korea not because it is so fantastic, but because it is possible to do so. Germans don't produce tanks anymore. Neither the French. Nor Brits. Nor Italians. Last but not least, nor Muricans.
    An arms race would mean the bankruptcy of the whole of the west.
    That is only about the economy, and we haven't started to consider the human factor yet.

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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:16 am

    its great to do that, but much better to prevent them from getting to the warehouse.

    Getting them at the warehouse is best because with a few missiles you get them all at once and anything else stored in that warehouse too because ammo will explode and burn and ensure the destruction of other equipment like vehicles and tanks which would otherwise only receive minor damage if hit on the way.

    (A Self propelled artillery piece is not loaded with ammo or fuelled during transit... it is only on the front line where it gets fuel and ammo so a small HEAT round can ignite it and blow it to smitherens. On the back of a train that same HEAT warhead will punch a hole and start a small fire that might just burn out because of lack of proper fuel...)

    Stacking thousands of rockets and rounds of artillery ammo and propellent charges together in a warehouse together with tanks and uniforms and flak jackets and radios and drones means starting a fire can destroy it all... one weapon could do it.

    Sure Putin is a decent peacetime leader but he has shown he isn't that capable of a wartime leader. End of the day it starts and ends with him.

    In comparison to who?

    I mean he did seem to sort out their Chechen problem which everyone was claiming was a conflict of Afghanistan proportions that would never end either.

    Did he go all hard core and kill them all like some are suggesting here... when talking about Chechens and Ukrainians and Russians, these are people who fought Hitler and won against all the odds... do you honestly think HATO will win?

    Which current western political leader do you rate better than Putin and what is that based upon... performance in Afghanistan? Performance in Syria or Libya or Iraq or Iran... or how about Somalia or Yemen?

    Because of what you're saying, Putin is inept as a war leader

    And ineptitude doesn't give morale to the soldiers

    Funny you say that because there does not seem to be a shortage of Chechens volunteering despite Putin being in charge...

    Maybe some Russians enjoy a comfortable lifestyle but don't think they should have to fight for it... and I would argue the amount Russia gave during the Second World War it is a crime that the west are making them fight again for their own stupid games, but this fight is a necessary fight and Putin did everything he could to avoid it.

    Now he is doing everything he can to minimise the damage it does to Russia and the lives it costs Russia... but you go ahead and hate him for that... I doubt he cares about one or two not understanding.


    But Putin is clearly having delusions about it all, he thinks these people understand him or deep down sympathize with him because of the mercy he's shown them

    But these people don't care and would happily off Putin if they could

    Those people you are talking about don't matter to Putin or to Russia... taking the softly softly approach or destroying the country one blade of grass at a time wont make any difference to the people responsible for this conflict they are miles away tucked up safe and warm.

    Putin is showing mercy because he is a human being, but ask the idiots on the front line for the orcs about how much mercy they receive from Russian artillery and drones and air power, and you will find his mercy is selective.

    That's why me and many others would never fight for this cause, because if we get hurt , wounded, killed, it's basically in vain, there is no redemption for it

    The irony is that if he was fighting this war the way you want him to you would already have been called up and would be pushing the Orcs forces back slowly but painfully losing rather more Russian soldiers in the process.

    The people claiming this will speed up the war can only claim that because they think the alternative is wiping out the entire Ukrainian population... but that is not needed as well as not being possible.

    When western support for this conflict ends the conflict will end and US support wont last until the next US election because one thing Americans hate is a forever war... Vietnam was the first one, but if it came down to the US MIC they would still be in Afghanistan... part of what Trump got elected for was to pull the US out of pointless wars that don't make the US safer... fighting in Afghanistan is not making the US safer but neither is US troops in Syria or Ukraine... or many places in Africa...

    If Trump gets elected he might even pull out of HATO... imagine the billions the US taxpayers will save...

    But it’s not worth waiting for “people to run out” and the enemy to stop advancing. They won't run out soon.

    They wont keep fighting till they run out, they will fold well before that... As pro nazi zealots diminish in number a few more sensible heads will get positions of power and start to wonder how long the US is going to keep using Slavs vs Slavs until there are no Slavs yet those yanks might say... I wonder if those Ukrainians have properly thought this all through... the Afghans that helped the US and HATO forces against the Taliban and ISIS were largely left behind to their fate and such treatment sadly was not unique for the west to drop like a hot rock those they relied on during combat...

    Some good news hopefully…

    That is what Kiev says, so why would we think that was true?

    Thats the same hubris that got NATO into this mess. Fact is the numbers don't lie. Ammo and weapons production will ramp up in all NATO nations. Yes in the long run it can match and exceed Russia. Why not? why can't 700m people out produce 140m? Who has a larger navy? Who has more jet fighters? Even today. And they are doing it while giving everyone enough food to turn into giant blobs.

    So why did the US led HATO force leave Afghanistan... surely they outproduced the Taliban by a wide margin.

    The size of their navy is not relevant when the Ukrainian navy is on the bottom of the Black Sea, and what jet fighters... they arrive they take off and most of the time they are shot down.

    Just look at the videos of ammo dumps and fuel dumps destroyed by Russian attacks... those are shells and rockets and litres of fuel that have zero use, despite the enormous price the west will be charging them, despite all the fuel and vehicles used to get them from the border to the front line...

    Prigozin had the right to complain in public because he was not a soldier, he was a mercenary outfit owner

    Your assimilation is coming on nicely PapaD, you have mastered the belief that civilians have rights to complain in open media about war related things in war time... just keep in mind that such rights exist only in Russia and only for anyone opposed to Putin... such rights are null and void when discussing Manning or Snowden or Assange or any such dissidents who compromise western secrets and indeed crimes.


    This doesn't mean that I don't think the war has to be sped up and Russia has to go for big arrow encirclements, wipe out all decision making centers ect

    The real question is will this war act like a hollywood rope or a real rope...

    The hollywood rope you see some minor damage on the rope when everyone gets on and over time a strand at a time one breaks after another and by the time the heros realise there is trouble half the strands are broken, but with hollywood ropes those last few strands are actually as strong as the original intact rope so even when there is only one or two strands left the rope holds and the heroes desperately search for a solution... and then the last strand breaks and the hero leaps the remaining gap to safety and either makes it or dies trying depending on which part of the story it is from.

    Real ropes often just break... there might be damage and fraying, but when it breaks it breaks suddenly and with little warning...

    Opposition to the conflict was always there and it will be growing and gathering strength and as more truth is revealed the harder it will be for Zelensky and his goons to keep the truth hidden. The US election will lead to opposition members to talk about how pointless and how expensive and how dangerous this conflict is to the American taxpayer that should be funding more important things that actually effect American lives every day instead of this circus.

    This will mean Ukrainians are going to be confronted with a bit more reality than they are used to and for a while it will be a shock, but then anger and a realisation that offers of peace that Putin has been talking about need to be begged for before it is too late...

    Personally I think the longer they leave it the better the future for the people on the ground and for Russia.

    If Russia got a million men under arms, they could do large encirclements.

    We have been watching the defense strategy for a year now. The retards keep coming and coming.

    Except with Russia flooding the battlefield with soldiers and equipment and moving forward then the Orcs can do what they have been training to do... stay behind sabotage forces to hit rear units and supply dumps and ammo dumps and HQs... all the weak rear area locations that wont fight back so hard as front line troops.

    And of course mines...

    In fact Russia has already been doing exactly this over the past several months. I think the game Putin is playing is to say, you still have this much infrastructure. You come to the table now and you get to keep it. You don't well its destruction lands on the next orders.

    If Russia destroys everything then what can they do to escalate when an Orc drone sneaks through and hits a ship or a bridge... the way he is running this it means when the Orcs hit the bridge the lights go out and electricity maintenance becomes a problem on their side of the battle lines...

    If you look at most Red Army offensives during ww2, you'll see that most of the time the Red Army had 3 to 1 numerical advantage over the Wehrmacht in both manpower and materiel.

    Except in this conflict they had a numerical disadvantage that was quite significant and required they hold territory around Kiev and seem prepared to attack Odessa to keep the Orc forces spread over the entire country rather than being able to concentrate them in the East.

    With air control the numbers needed are not the same in a modern war.

    That is only about the economy, and we haven't started to consider the human factor yet.

    Wonder how Poland would react if it knew how many Poles have gone to see Bandera...

    They say the truth is the first victim in any war... when the west starts to hear the truth from politicians in the US running for election then it is going to be rather harder to justify sending all that money and all those weapons and all that ammo to such a lost cause... especially at a time when the wests own military are so poorly neglected and stripped of weapons and ammo to supply Ukraine... to no obvious or significant effect.

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #47 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #47

    Post  ALAMO Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:31 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Wonder how Poland would react if it knew how many Poles have gone to see Bandera...

    It depends on what numbers you are addressing.
    The "10k" number claimed by McGregor lately is a fantasy. Just take a look at the confirmed merc KIA profile and proportion. From the statistical perspective, the probability that a random probe does not represent overall stats is very low. So what you have there, is Poles being somewhere in the middle, with an overwhelming majority of Georgians and Belarussians, followed by the Anglosaxons of all sorts.
    If we even consider that number serious, that would mean tens of thousands killed Georgians and Belarussians - which is obviously not true.
    Most of those guys are thugs, gangsters and hooligans who had connections with Ukro crime underground well before the war.
    And quite an interesting thing. As I knew in person lots of our soldiers who carried duty in Ukraine before 240222, as instructors etc - now I can hardly remember a few who are they as advisors. The number is clearly smaller, as the training is being carried in Poland instead.
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #47 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #47

    Post  Begome Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:34 am

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:If you look at most Red Army offensives during ww2, you'll see that most of the time the Red Army had 3 to 1 numerical advantage over the Wehrmacht in both manpower and materiel.

    Now the Russian army is trying to attack without significant numerical advantage.

    Maybe it's time to use Russia's demographic advantage to the fullest?

    Wrong.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #47 - Page 33 Manpow10

    And then there's the completely different dynamics of this war due to 80 years of technological development.

    That said, it is still a good idea to increase RuAF size to 1.5 mln first and 2 mln over the coming few years IMO, which is being done.

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