Russian special military operation in Ukraine #49

ALAMO wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
They weren't. Tochkas hit Donetsk at least a couple of times, killed civilians. They hit Berdyansk where that troop transport vessel was and sunk it. They hit an airbase used by Russia in the Kherson region, took out a few Mi-8s on the ground. They hit an airbase in either Belgorod or Kursk region, toasted some Russian aircraft on the ground too. I seem to recall them hitting a large concentration of Russian troops too, killed perhaps 30 or 40 although that might have been a HIMARS (no, it wasn't the New Year's strike)

The scale of ignorance some here present makes me seriously wonder what are you folks even doing at a military forum, yet specialised in Russian matters
Your brilliant analysis, where from the first line it gets crystal clear that you don't know how to look at the map.
Your pro grade military advice, presenting that you have no bloody clue about the range of the systems you are happily arguing about.
Your constant whining, making it obvious that you lived in some la la land all of your life, separated from common sense, and your perception of military matters came from Counter Strike.

Do you have to prefix your posts with this drivel every time you disagree with someone on something ? Cut it tf out

Sujoy wrote " Russian AWACS should have been able to identify the terrain hugging missiles before they hit the target. But they missed.Also, Russia has a relatively large satellite network that can also detect missiles like Storm Shadow.NATO radars are passing information to Ukraine. The exact nature of the information would be a secret, but Ukraine is getting the information and that's the reason why they blow the air raid sirens, before the missiles hit. "

We do not know if Russian Radar , did not see . Maybe it saw . Maybe SAM was or was not fired against it . If fired , then missed some . Satellites , I heard , should detect missile plume or jet exhaust , but to translate this into useful real-time info for SAM ? Far better to hit a sitting Duck . Before firing best , but TEL can be hit after firing also . I heard using multi-spectral sensors best , at detecting hidden target . I explained identifying real target by the tracks it leaves , depth and path , by spectral analysis .Real hardware can be identified , or anything heavy going across fields . Then simply use cheapest method to attack . Any large building that could hide plane , next to tarmac Road , should be destroyed . Planes can not be hidden in urban area . Rural area suitable for hiding plane . Destroy any building next to hard Road . Destroy any building that has deep track marks , leading to it .

Russia destroyed a Bridge and missile or Aircraft repair plant ? Very easily . But why wait ? I think they want to capture it alive , and own it ! They think they can advance on the ground ? Then prove it ! Advance 50 km in one week on narrow front . If you can , then you can capture alive the Factory , but not the Bridge . If you can't , then destroy .

Edit : Best to damage factory and Bridge , into non-functioning state , but repairable ( by Russia in case of capture at future date ) . Best of both worlds ; damaged repairable !

In summary, according to RIA Novosti, a German POW captured by Russia, claimed that he was not a mere mercenary, but a soldier in Germany Armed Forces.

However he died quickly after that due to severe wound.

https://ria.ru/20230923/tank-1898197755.html?fbclid=IwAR1aJHFiQj8FcJFOKqAvlgywW-afUEvVNyw6jEZk78trDKgWUrCFS5Uqzr8

23 Sep 2023

Scouts of the Russian Armed Forces told RIA Novosti about the destruction of a Leopard with a crew from Germany.

"We found that the tank driver was seriously wounded, and the rest died. The mechanic, when he woke up and saw us, began shouting “nicht shissen” (don’t shoot. - Ed.)," said the group commander.

“(The driver of the damaged tank - Ed.) said several times that he was not a mercenary, but a Bundeswehr soldier and the entire crew from one company,” the soldier added.

As the commander added, when he interrogated the Bundeswehr soldier, the doctor of their reconnaissance group said that the mechanic had lost a lot of blood and was seriously wounded. “I asked the doc how long he would live, and the doc answered - a few more minutes. I told the German that the wound was too severe and he had no chance of survival. He said that he loved his child and wife very much and regretted that he agreed to come here to go. We began to prepare him for evacuation, but he switched off and after a couple of minutes he “got two hundred” (“cargo 200” - killed in action. - Ed.)”

higurashihougi wrote:In summary, according to RIA Novosti, a German POW captured by Russia, claimed that he was not a mere mercenary, but a soldier in Germany Armed Forces.

However he died quickly after that due to severe wound.

https://ria.ru/20230923/tank-1898197755.html?fbclid=IwAR1aJHFiQj8FcJFOKqAvlgywW-afUEvVNyw6jEZk78trDKgWUrCFS5Uqzr8
....

Alien which crashed in Roswell claimed that he was from another planet but he died quickly after that due to severe wound

His corpse evaporated as well...

A damaged and abandoned Swedish infantry fighting vehicle CV9040C near the village of Berkhovka near Bakhmut.

Hole wrote:

Kremenchuk airport 

Was it the military airfield or a civilian airport?

It is a dedicated military heli airport, still the strip you see out there is some 800m long. Good enough to start most of the Soviet planes, Su-24 included.

Sujoy wrote:
Russian AWACS should have been able to identify the terrain hugging missiles before they hit the target. But they missed.

Who "missed"?
AWACS?
Have you even considered to think twice before making your stand public?
Ukrs fired about three dozen of Storm Shadows.
Four, maybe five of those broke through.
What do you think, what is the "probability of kill" factor given in the Rosobronexport catalogues?
YES!
Yes, yes, yes! How brilliant of you!
It is a statistical chance of intercepting incoming missiles of a determined level of interception complexity.
Russkie put it at 0.7-0.83, considering the cruise missile type and the area.
How is that?!?
Missiles released will hit the target?
Respawn! Respawn! Call all the tribe brothers, we need a better battle server! Get some cheat codes, immediately!

Backman wrote:
Do you have to prefix your posts with this drivel every time you disagree with someone on something ? Cut it tf out

To "agree" or "disagree" with anyone, you need some clear basics. Give us your best, lads count on you!

I won't call nonsense on the claim of a German crewed Uberkonistiger getting knocked out and the crew dying. However, it would be far more damning and credible to get dogtags, military id card, wallet, passport something other than dead krauts fighting for dying nazi state. I am all but sure the F-16s coming this spring will have American pilots, sort of like the MiGs in Korea had Soviet aces. What could be better for real combat experience for American pilots getting real life experience against a near peer rival? Opfor can only do so much, real combat to learn what your rival's tactics are is far more useful to future war. That is one of the reasons the west wanted this war. It wants to see Russian tactics and operating systems first hand. Its why I hope Putin doesn't commit the new Armata weapons family or Pakfa to this. Also, that is why it is wise for Russia to mostly use Korean and Iranian drones and artillery. Let the most advanced stuff stay a state secret. Give just enough of a punch to capture the M1A2 because Bidiot is senile enough to give the latest equipment to Ukraine and let Russia break it down and come up with more efficient ways to destroy it which it would then send on to Syria, Niger, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea etc.

Yeah, this war is much like the Spanish Civil War in more than one way. The genocide and ethnic cleansing, the fascists being supported by the most expensive and overengineered weapons given by the most militaristic nations, and both the Germans and Italians and Soviets field testing the most state of the art for 1930s equipment to see how the new theories of deep battle and blitzkrieg and the weapons would work against a near peer force. I am sure NATO and Russia/Belarus/China/North Korea etc are studying signals intel and electronics intelligence. Part of the way you study how your machines do in battle is to man them. You may teach them Ukrainian so they blend in or disown them as mercenaries (for plausible deniability) but you send your own guys into battle to let them get used to how a war with Russia would go. So yeah, I buy the story. After all, there have been lots of stories of English, Polish, German, French, Spanish etc radio chatter on the most important sectors of the front and while some of those guys are mercs, probably a lot more are uniformed soldiers pretending to be Ukrainian. Still, dogtags, passports, etc would be a nice way to cooberate this story.

It is a dedicated military heli airport, still the strip you see out there is some 800m long. 

I wanted to know if the cruise missile attack was targeting a military airfield or the civilian airport in the city because
the post mentioned the "airport" as base of the Su-24s.

Russian reporter witnesses Ukrainian counter offensive at zaporozhye

The russian soldier refered to the MaxxxxPro as "foreign joke". 

RF suicide drone strikes on Ukrainian trenches

Mercouris made a good comment in the last video of the Duran regarding drones.
That the US sees them as unmanned aircraft while the Russians see them as extension of their artillery.

satellite network that can also detect missiles like Storm Shadow.

As long as American reconnaissance aircraft don't suffer combat losses

Stupid remark by RWA, as usual. That´s the purpose of a proxy war. 
Russia provided Vietnam with the means to kill tens of thousands of american soldiers.
But the american Navy did nothing to stop all those ships from reaching the ports in 
northern Vietnam.

Stupid remark by RWA, as usual. That´s the purpose of a proxy war.
Russia provided Vietnam with the means to kill tens of thousands of american soldiers.
But the american Navy did nothing to stop all those ships from reaching the ports in
northern Vietnam.

I agree that RWA are idiots for the most part. But the Vietnam compro doesn't fit as well because the fighting here is for Russian land. Especially Sevastopol. The US wasn't fighting for US land or anything close to it

Backman wrote:

Stupid remark by RWA, as usual. That´s the purpose of a proxy war.
Russia provided Vietnam with the means to kill tens of thousands of american soldiers.
But the american Navy did nothing to stop all those ships from reaching the ports in
northern Vietnam.

I agree that RWA are idiots for the most part. But the Vietnam compro doesn't fit as well because the fighting here is for Russian land. Especially Sevastopol. The US wasn't fighting for US land or anything close to it

Isn't impetus then on Russia to step up their game in vital proxy war instead of trying to bend the rules by escalating?

^ So you mean Russia should just fight within the proxy rules but fight way more forcefully ?

Either way, blowing up every govt building in Ukraine isn't escalating. So that can be done either way.

https://www.rt.com/news/583451-us-clarity-poland-arms-ukraine/

US demands clarity from Poland over Ukrainian military aid – media

Warsaw’s stance on military assistance to Kiev remains unclear amid ambiguous statements by Polish officials, Bloomberg says

Washington wants Warsaw to clarify its stance on further arms deliveries to Ukraine, Bloomberg reported on Friday, citing a senior US defense official. Earlier, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki stated that his nation would stop supplying weapons to Kiev and would focus on strengthening its own armed forces instead.

According to the US official, Poland said it remained committed to supporting Ukraine, but its exact stance remains unclear. The two neighbors are currently engaged in a row over Ukrainian grain exports that Warsaw claimed were destabilizing its own agricultural market.

The US still believes that the disagreements between Warsaw and Kiev have not yet reached the point where they can threaten the “unity” of the Western coalition of Ukraine’s backers, Bloomberg reported, adding that military support for Kiev “would likely take stretch into multiple years.”

Hole wrote:
I wanted to know if the cruise missile attack was targeting a military airfield or the civilian airport in the city because
the post mentioned the "airport" as base of the Su-24s.

There is no other "airport" in Kremenchuk. This one is actually called "aerodrome". The big piece of land north of the paved helipads is an unpaved airfield that can be used by planes. Su-24 landing gear was designed to operate from unpaved runways, so my guess is that it can be used for the purpose. At least until some heavy rain.
And the same applies to both Su-25 and MiG-29, both can use unpaved runways, too.

PapaDragon wrote:
Isn't impetus then on Russia to step up their game in vital proxy war instead of trying to bend the rules by escalating?

And this is what they did.
Take a look at Central and South Americas.
Russian position there is better than ever.
It is a US belly.
Monroe doctrine, you know.
Mexico is turning into a country openly hostile to the US.
If they are pushed a few more times, there is a chance they will go on war with cartels.
That will be a show.

And by the way, yesterday was a great performance that could give some of you a hint.
For the first time, E-3 was sent to the closest point. Easternmost edge of Romania.
350 km away from Crimea.
Considering the max range of its radar of about 400 km, it means they still can see shit over the Crimea, and the operational theatre in general. Being 350 km away, they can spot big, high-flying targets. This is not the case here, as Russkie release the Ch-101 while well into own territory.
Russkie have a giant advantage here, operating Voronezh-SM at Armavir, with some 10kkm range.
Operational awareness of theirs is much, much better.

Russkie have a giant advantage here, operating Voronezh-SM at Armavir, with some 10kkm range. wrote:

Voronezh SM is not an over-the-horizon radar. Radar sees objects at enormous distances above the horizon. That is, satellites and RV from ICBM, IRBM,SLBM .

ALAMO wrote: Who "missed"?
AWACS?
Have you even considered to think twice before making your stand public?
Ukrs fired about three dozen of Storm Shadows.
Four, maybe five of those broke through.
What do you think, what is the "probability of kill" factor given in the Rosobronexport catalogues?
YES!
Yes, yes, yes! How brilliant of you!
It is a statistical chance of intercepting incoming missiles of a determined level of interception complexity.
Russkie put it at 0.7-0.83, considering the cruise missile type and the area.
How is that?!?
Missiles released will hit the target?
Respawn! Respawn! Call all the tribe brothers, we need a better battle server! Get some cheat codes, immediately!

Meaning there is a 70% to 83% chance of intercepting a missile under ideal conditions with one shot. In other words, out of 100 shots fired at the target, 70 to 83 of them are expected to be successful. That's an extremely high Pk by any standard.

So if Ukraine fired 3 dozen Storm Shadows and a few were able to hit the target it could be because

(a)they were not detected on time;

(b)Black Sea HQ did not have enough interceptor missiles.

Because if the Pk 0.70 - 0.83 holds true then all these 36 Storm Shadows should have been intercepted.

ucmvulcan wrote:Still, dogtags, passports, etc would be a nice way to cooberate this story.  

Any forces involved in a proxy war will never have the items listed by you with them during an operation in a combat zone. your demand for the presentation of such identification marks is simply meaningless.

Macgregor delivers

If the Leopard tank crew was really German, then I hope Russia will publish their faces, so their families can confirm how they fought under the command of Nazi scum and how Russia is once again passing these German Nazi supporters into the meat grinder just like 80 years ago.
Usually you do not publish the faces of fallen soldiers, but in this case they would not diserve the honor.

SolidarityWithRussia wrote:If the Leopard tank crew was really German, then I hope Russia will publish their faces, so their families can confirm how they fought under the command of Nazi scum and how Russia is once again passing these German Nazi supporters into the meat grinder just like 80 years ago.
Usually you do not publish the faces of fallen soldiers, but in this case they would not diserve the honor.

Publishing such details of the dead is something that Ukronazi bastards do.  Russia must not stoop to those levels, she is better than that.

If they have other means to confirm their identity, then even better, but I don't think that is the case. Given the fact that Germany is officially not at war with Russia and that Germans always pretend to distance themselves from any form of Nazism, it would be absolutely scandelous, if the crew came from the German Bundeswehr. Although I would not be surprised, if that is the case, because it would take too much time to properly train enough Ukrainians operating Leopard tanks.

Russia is also planning a significant increase in defence spending next year, surging to 6% of GDP from 3.9% in 2023 and 2.7% in 2021.

No idea, but that photo doesn't look like either.

The photo only seems to show a specific area, plenty of scope for areas outside the frame of the image to have runways and aircraft...

Russian AWACS should have been able to identify the terrain hugging missiles before they hit the target. But they missed.

AWACS cannot detect all things at 600km range, and even if they could they need to discern friendly from enemy and civilian aircraft.

No doubt HATO would have coordinated the attack for when they perceived a gap in the surveillance network... just like the Iranians did in Saudi Arabia when they attacked oil fields. The difference is that quite a number of Europes most stealthy attack missiles were shot down and only a couple made it through, whereas in the Middle East the missiles were not detected till they exploded on target.

Also, Russia has a relatively large satellite network that can also detect missiles like Storm Shadow.

Maybe you watch too many movies... they have hundreds of thousands of targets to watch over...

NATO radars are passing information to Ukraine. The exact nature of the information would be a secret, but Ukraine is getting the information and that's the reason why they blow the air raid sirens, before the missiles hit.

Which does not really seem to do much good for them in terms of stopping the missiles and drones...

Alien which crashed in Roswell claimed that he was from another planet but he died quickly after that due to severe wound Rolling Eyes

His corpse evaporated as well...

He will have ID papers they can publish if anyone questions the truth... they would not just discard the remains... returning them to Germany would be useful propaganda...

I won't call nonsense on the claim of a German crewed Uberkonistiger getting knocked out and the crew dying. However, it would be far more damning and credible to get dogtags, military id card, wallet, passport something other than dead krauts fighting for dying nazi state

Both sides have a track record regarding telling lies and the record for Russia in my opinion is rather more reliable than that of Kiev.

I wanted to know if the cruise missile attack was targeting a military airfield or the civilian airport in the city because
the post mentioned the "airport" as base of the Su-24s.

I would suspect they would have the Su-24s hidden amongst trees and covered with tent material or in sheds when not in use.

Having it near a helicopter base or civilian airport would allow fuel and support to operate without drawing suspicion that it might be being used for military purposes.

satellite network that can also detect missiles like Storm Shadow.

If satellites were so amazing then why waste money on AWACS and JSTARS and heavy drones with electronic equipment on them...

So if Ukraine fired 3 dozen Storm Shadows and a few were able to hit the target it could be because

(a)they were not detected on time;

(b)Black Sea HQ did not have enough interceptor missiles.

Because if the Pk 0.70 - 0.83 holds true then all these 36 Storm Shadows should have been intercepted.

Your grasp of maths is lacking... a PK of 0.7 to 0.8 means seventy to eighty percent of targets will be effectively hit with one missile, but with them all being launched together, along with other ballistic weapons (S-200) and decoys and no doubt also their own anti ship missiles (neptunes) then it becomes a case that the defences of the night were overwhelmed and a few missiles got through.

The attack will be analysed and the defences probably modified and beefed up so a repeat of that attack will probably be rather less successful.

Any forces involved in a proxy war will never have the items listed by you with them during an operation in a combat zone. your demand for the presentation of such identification marks is simply meaningless.

Then send them the index fingers and they can do a DNA check. It is likely the bodies will be returned to the Orcs, or in this case perhaps returned directly to Germany so the Ukraine can't destroy the evidence and deny the claims that these men are not dead and are just missing... so they don't have to pay compensation.

Publishing such details of the dead is something that Ukronazi bastards do. Russia must not stoop to those levels, she is better than that.

Not for propaganda, but to return the bodies to their families to show they are actually dead is the right thing to do.

Any forces involved in a proxy war will never have the items listed by you with them during an operation in a combat zone. 

Maybe the russian soldier had a camera on his helmet. Now wait until Scholz or Baerbock deny the involvement of german soldiers, then
release the footage.

surging to 6% of GDP from 3.9% in 2023 and 2.7% in 2021.

GPD numbers are meaningless. Did they release the ammount of Rubles they want to spend?

Macgregor delivers

He does but the European prat that talks straight after him is an idiot who thinks Russia can trust Europe and can make agreements with them to end this war.

Russia cannot trust either the EU or US and need to finish this by destroying Ukraines army... if it takes a year or five more years then that is what it takes... not getting this done right means having to do it again in 5 or 10 years time against a renewed enemy that might not be as inept.