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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #54

    franco
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    Post  franco Sat Mar 02, 2024 5:22 pm

    Ukraine’s 🇺🇦military personnel losses (killed & wounded) have exceeded 1,000 per day in the past 2 weeks. You can see why Western politicians & pundits are in a panic, talking of (or denying) NATO troops & weapons vs 🇷🇺Russia! Their panic will not subside. Russia is winning.

    https://twitter.com/StubbornFacts/status/1763541694429979072/photo/1

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    Post  Sujoy Sat Mar 02, 2024 5:30 pm

    According to this analyst Russian T-80s' have better protection against ATGMs like Javelin compared to the T-72  & T-90.

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    Post  Sprut-B Sat Mar 02, 2024 6:37 pm

    First they mock....

    Now they cry....

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #54 - Page 11 Ghmt7p10

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    Post  nomadski Sat Mar 02, 2024 6:57 pm

    @ JohninMk

    I always thought that Russia was not taking out Bridges on Rivers , especially the big Bridges over Deniper . Why do they allow supplies to come across ? Tanks are not flown into the front , are they ? Still without heavy arms , the Orcs would do human wave attacks , and the meat - grinder would still work fine , even better ! Your post suggests that Bridges on smaller Rivers , have been taken out . Or that they are being taken out . This will stop supplies and reinforcements coming across . But a thought  came to my mind ; Is it better to allow an escape route and allow retreat ? Is it better to leave a small Bridge , capable of carrying only foot traffic , intact ? Is it better or more efficient to corral troops into smaller areas ? Where they are surrounded by armour , and without heavy weapons ? Is it better to drive them out of prepared bunker positions , into open fields ? Is it more efficient to set about grinding meat or collecting meat in a corner ?

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    Post  JohninMK Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:21 pm

    This is astonishing. It looks as if that tapped phonecall was for real.

    S p r i n t e r
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    The German Ministry of Defense confirmed to Germany's first channel ARD that there had been wiretapping of German army officers.

    According to our assessment, the conversation was intercepted in the Luftwaffe sector, according to the Ministry's announcement.

    ▪ At the same time, the department said that they cannot yet say whether changes have been made to the version of the conversation distributed on social networks.

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    Post  JohninMK Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:38 pm

    Towhee 🌏☮
    @amborin

    The Russian Aerospace Forces eliminated a group of CIA-linked officers of the special forces of the Special Operations Forces of Ukraine in the Sumy region after receiving data from Russian intelligence.

    "it cannot be ruled out that among those liquidated in Hlukhiv were career employees of the US intelligence."

    "Russian intelligence has obtained data on the location of the personnel of the special operations forces of Ukraine on the territory of the Sumy region. We are talking about a deployment point in the city of Glukhov, located just a few kilometers from the border with the Kursk region.
    The Ukrainian side confirms losses as part of the SOF special forces unit in Hlukhiv. Moreover, it is reported that the losses are associated with an airstrike by the Russian Aerospace Forces.

    In Ukrainian reports, information appeared about the servicemen of the special forces detachment eliminated by Russian aviation. These are Nazar Sokolovsky and Ilya Pichokha. The first is from the Ternopil region, the second is from the Volyn region.

    It is known that Serhiy Pichokha is an officer of the reconnaissance group of the headquarters of the special forces of the Special Operations Forces of Ukraine. The reconnaissance group, one of the main tasks of which was to commit sabotage on the territory of the Russian Federation, planned by the US CIA, included Sokolovsky.

    Other Ukrainian sources say that the Ukrainian Special Operations Forces in Hlukhiv lost at least 8 officers as a result of the Russian strike. At least two more were seriously wounded, one was sent through Sumy to a hospital in Kyiv.

    This information once again confirms the activity of SOF groups, which are closely associated with American intelligence instructors. Therefore, it cannot be ruled out that among those liquidated in Hlukhiv were career employees of the US intelligence.

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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:39 pm



    Who was wiretapping Germans?

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    Post  ALAMO Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:58 pm

    Now or usual?

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    Post  Kiko Sat Mar 02, 2024 9:17 pm

    Here’s why the West can’t be trusted to observe its own ‘red lines’ in Ukraine, by Tarik Cyril Amar, a historian from Germany working at Koç University, Istanbul, on Russia, for RT. 03.02.2024.

    With Macron refusing to rule out a troop deployment, and a leaked conversation between German officers, more escalation is certain.

    French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz have disagreed publicly over how to support Ukraine – which has been ruthlessly deployed by the West as a geopolitical proxy – in its conflict with Russia. Macron used a special EU meeting he had convened, rumor has it directly inspired by Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky, to state, in effect, that sending Western combat troops into Ukraine was an option.

    Of course, the West already has troops on the ground, including those flimsily camouflaged as volunteers and mercenaries, or otherwise participating in the conflict (for instance by planning and targeting), as a recent leak of US documents has confirmed. But an open intervention by ground forces would be a severe escalation, directly pitting Russia and NATO against each other, as Moscow has quickly pointed out, and making nuclear escalation a real possibility.

    Russia has deliberately tolerated a certain degree of Western intervention, for its own pragmatic reasons: In essence, it seeks to win the war in Ukraine, while avoiding an open conflict with NATO. It is willing to pay the price of having to deal with some de facto Western military meddling, as long as it is confident it can defeat it on the Ukrainian battlefield. Indeed, the strategy has the added advantage that the West is bleeding its own resources, while the Russian military is receiving excellent hands-on training in how to neutralize Western hardware, including much-touted “miracle weapons.”

    You do not have to believe Moscow’s words, but simply consult elementary logic to understand that there is an equally hard-headed limit to this kind of calculated tolerance. If the Russian leadership were to conclude that Western military forces in Ukraine were endangering its objectives (instead of merely making achieving them harder), it would raise the price for certain Western countries. (Selective treatment would be adopted to put under stress – quite possibly to breaking point – Western cohesion.)

    Consider Germany, for instance: Berlin is by far Ukraine’s biggest bilateral financial supporter among EU states (at least in terms of commitments). Yet militarily, for now, Russia has been content with, in essence, shredding German Leopard tanks as they arrive on the battlefield. And, in a sense, punishing Germany’s meddling can safely be left to its own government: the country has already taken massive hits to its economy and international standing.

    But if Berlin were to go even further, Moscow’s calculations would change. In that case, as little as German mass media allow German citizens to think about it, a “sobering” (to use a term from Russian doctrine) strike – initially probably non-nuclear – on German forces and territory is possible. The domestic consequences of such an attack are unpredictable. Germans might rally round the flag, or they might openly rebel against an already deeply unpopular government that has been sacrificing the national interest with unprecedented bluntness to Washington’s geopolitics.

    If you think the above sounds a little far-fetched, I know of someone who clearly does not share your complacency: the German chancellor. Stung by Macron’s provocation, Scholz countered with telling alacrity. Within 24 hours after the surprise French move, he publicly ruled out the sending of “ground troops” by “European nations or NATO nations,” underlining that that this red line has always been agreed on.

    In addition, the chancellor also chose exactly this moment to reaffirm that Germany will not deliver its Taurus cruise missiles to Kiev, as escalation that proponents have long demanded, including inside Germany. With, according to Scholz, the capability of striking Moscow, Berlin’s missiles in Ukrainian hands and Macron’s hypothetical ground forces have one thing in common: they come with a serious risk of spreading direct fighting beyond Ukraine, in particular to Western Europe and Germany.

    In other words, the leaders of the two countries traditionally recognized as the core of the European Union have displayed profound disagreement on a key issue. Macron, it is true, often says more than he means or will care to remember. Scholz is an extreme opportunist, even by the standards of professional politics. In addition, clearly intentional indiscretions from the two men’s teams point to mutual and heartfelt antipathy, as Bloomberg has just reported. We could dismiss the spat between them as nothing but the result of incompatible political styles and personal animosity.

    But that would be a grave mistake. In reality, their open discord is an important signal about the state of thinking, debate, and policy making within the EU, and, more broadly, NATO and the West. The real challenge is to decipher what this signal means.

    Let’s start with something the two leaders will not openly admit but, it is virtually certain, share: The background to their quarrel is their fear that Ukraine and the West are not only losing the conflict, but more importantly in the information-streamlined West, that this defeat is about to become undeniably obvious. For instance, in the shape of further Russian advances, including strategic victories like the taking of Avdeevka and a partial or total collapse of Ukrainian defenses. Even the robustly bellicose Economist, for instance, is now admitting that Russia’s offensive is “heating up,” that the fall of Avdeevka has not made the Russian military pause, and that Ukrainians themselves are “becoming pessimistic.” Both Macron’s remarks and Scholz’s hasty disclaimer are indicators of a growing and well-founded pessimism, perhaps even incipient panic among Western elites.

    Yet that does not tell us much about how these elites really intend to react to this losing game (assuming they know themselves, that is). In principle, there are two strategic options: raise the stakes (again) or cut your losses (finally). At this point, the “raise the stakes” faction is still dominating the policy debate. The negative response to Macron’s show-stealer move has overshadowed that the general trend of the NATO and EU strategy is still to add fresh resources to the fight, for instance by agreeing to source ammunition from outside the EU, a move long resisted by France. At least as far as the public is permitted to see, NATO and the EU are still run by sunk-cost-fallacy addicts: The more they have failed and lost already, the more they want to risk.

    In reality, however, the option of deception and the temptation of self-deception (they easily blend into each other, an effect commonly known as “drinking your own Kool Aid”) make things more complicated: Take, for instance, Russia’s evidence, in verbatim transcript detail, of high-ranking German military officers discussing – or was it “brainstorming”? – how Ukraine could, after all, use Taurus missiles to attack the Kerch Strait Bridge that connects Crimea with the Russian mainland, while maintaining, in effect, plausible deniability. Scholz’s public statement that “German soldiers must at no point and in no place be linked” to Taurus attacks is proof that evading responsibility – or the impossibility to do so – are on his mind. As you would expect from a politician whose only strategy is finding the path of least resistance.

    The muddled German response to this embarrassing intelligence fiasco (Why exactly was something so obviously sensitive discussed via hackable telecommunications instead of in a secure room, for instance?) only confirms that the Russian evidence is authentic. Instead of denying that the discussion took place, Germany has reacted – in typical authoritarian manner – by blocking social media accounts reporting it, and by trying to spin the conversation as nothing but a harmless thought experiment.

    And yet, Scholz’s suspiciously elastic phrasing and the German officers’ discussion do not mean that such a course of naively transparent cheating will be adopted by Berlin. It may even have been a way of figuring out why that would not work.

    Especially if this information is not entirely new, Russia’s choosing to publicize it now and perhaps even risking some (minor) intelligence disadvantage by revealing the extent of the German military’s penetration is, of course, also a signal to Germany’s leadership: Moscow will not play along with plausible deniability (a “don’t even try” message) and is deadly serious about this red line (a “we mean it” message). This as well may help focus minds in Berlin and make cheating less likely.

    In any case, the evidence of German officers thinking about how to help attack Russia without leaving fingerprints does underline two things: Western public statements can easily be deliberate lies; and even when they are not, they are always open to radical revision. Indeed, Macron, too, alluded to that fact, pointing out that even if direct military intervention is not a consensus yet, it could become one in the future, just as other red lines have been crossed before.

    In that light, Macron’s loose talk could be read as just another bluff – or, as they say in France, “strategic ambiguity”: a desperate attempt to strut so fiercely that Russia will not press its military advantage. If that was the French president’s intention, it has backfired spectacularly: Macron has provoked not only Germany but other, bigger Western players as well to clarify that they do not agree with him. Note to the Jupiterian self in the Élysée Palace: It’s not “ambiguous” when everyone who counts says “No way!”; it’s not very “strategic” either.

    Yet it would be complacent to take solace from Macron’s current isolation. First, it is not complete: There are hardcore escalationists, such as the Estonian leader Kaja Kallas, in the EU and NATO who have praised him precisely because they want to drag everyone else into a direct clash with Russia. It is good that these especially zealous warmongers do not have the upper hand for now. But they have not been defeated or even appropriately marginalized either, and they will not give up.

    Second, a strategy of escalation and threats can get out of hand. Consider the too-little-known fact that, in the July Crisis of 1914, just before World War I started, even the German emperor Wilhelm II had moments where he privately felt that it could still be avoided. That, however, was after he and his government had personally done their worst to bring the big war about. Lesson: If you take too many risks, at some point you may no longer be able to dial down the escalation you have promoted yourself.

    Third, and most fundamentally, while rationally applied dishonesty is not unusual in international politics, for an international system to produce stability, it must first produce predictability. That, in turn, requires that even deception is kept within tacitly agreed limits and is, to a degree, predictable (because of its underlying rationality). The problem with the post-Cold War West is that it has chosen to forget and flaunt this basic rule of global order. Its addiction to unreliability is so severe that signals of escalation are inherently more credible than signals of de-escalation, as long as there is no principal, general, and clearly recognizable change of approach.

    Put differently, Macron’s current isolation does not count for much because its due-diligence interpretation from Moscow’s perspective has to be that he merely went a little too far too soon. Neither Scholz’s nor other Western disavowals make a difference. What would make a difference is a united and clear signal by the West that it is now ready for genuine negotiations and a real compromise settlement. For now, the opposite remains true.

    https://www.rt.com/news/593616-macron-scholz-ukraine-troops/

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    Post  Hole Sat Mar 02, 2024 9:48 pm

    If Russians wants to do succesful offensive
    Another one of those Telegram Generals who should better shut up.
    Next he will tell the Russian General Staff that they have to fill up and arm tanks before sending them to the frontlines.
    Rolling Eyes

    Now or usual?
    Usually it were the US and the GDR.

    and that Ukrainians themselves are “becoming pessimistic.” 
    Even those who are taking a lot of drugs.

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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Sat Mar 02, 2024 9:58 pm





    I always thought that Russia was not taking out Bridges on Rivers , especially the big Bridges over Deniper . Why do they allow supplies to come across ? Tanks are not flown into the front , are they ? Still without heavy arms , the Orcs would do human wave attacks , and the meat - grinder would still work fine , even better ! Your post suggests that Bridges on smaller Rivers , have been taken out . Or that they are being taken out . This will stop supplies and reinforcements coming across . But a thought came to my mind ; Is it better to allow an escape route and allow retreat ? Is it better to leave a small Bridge , capable of carrying only foot traffic , intact ? Is it better or more efficient to corral troops into smaller areas ? Where they are surrounded by armour , and without heavy weapons ? Is it better to drive them out of prepared bunker positions , into open fields ? Is it more efficient to set about grinding meat or collecting meat in a corner ? wrote:




    Putin does not want to hurt his beloved ethnic Ukrainians too much.

    Russia has an ethnic Ukrainian for a head of state.



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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Sat Mar 02, 2024 10:11 pm

    Russia has an ethnic Ukrainian for a head of state
    .
    What? Shocked

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    Post  ALAMO Sat Mar 02, 2024 10:17 pm

    A fuckin' clash of mental titans we see above Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  JohninMK Sat Mar 02, 2024 10:23 pm

    Europe has no gunpowder for Ukraine

    France is faced with an acute shortage of gunpowder necessary for the production of large-caliber missiles for the Ukrainian army, writes BFM TV.
    The company Eurenco, which supplies gunpowder, reduced production volumes and moved part of its capacity to Sweden, and purchased the missing part from its neighbors.
    “Gunpowder is a huge problem. It’s incredible that in a country like ours they allowed the closure of gunpowder production facilities,” French experts are outraged.

    Defense Minister Lecornu is in a hurry to return production to his homeland. But it will take a lot of time. The Eurenco plant is due to begin operations in 2025 and produce 1,200 tons of gunpowder for Caesar cannon shells.
    - RD reports

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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Sat Mar 02, 2024 10:33 pm

    Not posted yet in this thread

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:15 am

    Current frontline in the Avdeevka theatre

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #54 - Page 11 2march10

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    Post  GarryB Sun Mar 03, 2024 6:49 am

    One of the reasons why the Ukrainian parliament and Zelenski's office have not been targeted yet is because no real decision is taken by them anyway, and having them replaced by more competent people could be counterproductive.

    Give credit where credit is due, the Russians would not be doing nearly so well if Zelenskys decisions were not so inept.

    If he was a good leader he would be worth taking out, but he is a clown. A beggar clown.

    The "warzone" is anywhere Ukies missiles can reach there is no such thing had.

    I love that definition... because Russian missiles have excellent reach...

    And Garry as for why the major surface ships haven't been targeted in port is because the Russians moved most of them away to naval facilities closer to Georgia, putting them out of range of Ukies drones and missiles. The bigger ships only stop by their for supplies and to rearm quickly and get out

    So what you are saying is that all they need to do is move the ships and they will be safe?

    Not much use to ships in dry dock, but at least three ships were hit at sea... one transport, one mine countermeasures ship and the Moskva, though there is no evidence the latter was "hit" by anything at all.

    Also your excuses chang nothing the BSF command failed and the bases defenses have failed at times not always to protect ships.

    So the BSF failed because some obsolete ships were hit after two years of combat against HATO supported neighbour?

    The enemy hit old ships and non essential ships... vessels that have no bearing on the current conflict and after this conflict is over would likely be scrapped anyway.

    What level of failure are we talking about?

    The same level of failure as Kiev for losing half a million men in two years, not to mention 10,000 tanks and armoured vehicles, and their entire navy and air force?

    Now, how much "incompetent", "laughable" and "pathetic" is the Royal Navy, considering that picture, my World of Warships level of armchair fleet admirals?

    And the worst thing is that when they went home and were hailed as heros they got their budget cut because obviously they spent too much money on it all.

    Who was wiretapping Germans?

    Who isn't.


    Putin does not want to hurt his beloved ethnic Ukrainians too much.

    Bridges are fixed entities that restrict and limit crossings. You don't drop bridges you intend to use later, or if your mission is to grind down your enemy... stopping him sending troops to the front line limits the number you can kill. Leaving the bridges intact allows the enemy to keep sending men to the front line for your troops to kill. Resources like tanks and fuel and ammo can be watched and tracked as it moves over those bridges and you can look at where fuel and ammo is positioned so you can take it out in large volumes at a time.

    This RT article is interesting because Blackwater is actually a company that has rather a diverse portfolio and owns a lot of land in the Ukraine... as Russian troops advance it seems the owners of assets in the Ukraine might start to want peace rather than losing their assets to the Russian Federations armed forces...

    https://www.rt.com/news/593610-blackwater-founder-ugly-peace-ukraine/

    to quote the above article...

    “We need to bring this war to a close because all Ukraine is doing right now is destroying itself demographically,” he said, adding that hostilities are “chewing up the next generation of Ukrainian manpower,” which will be almost impossible to replace.

    “The Western defense base is pathetic and you’re not going to out-conventional war the Russian bear,” Prince argued.

    (Erik Prince is the founder of Blackwater PMC)

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    Post  ahmedfire Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:41 am


    Who was wiretapping Germans?

    SVR,CIA ,Mossad,DGSE and everyone

    They even found Egyptian spy there lol

    https://dw.com/en/germany-charges-egyptian-with-spying-while-working-in-merkels-press-office/a-55618075

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    Post  GarryB Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:47 am

    Even the Salvation Army had a spy there...

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    Post  Karl Haushofer Sun Mar 03, 2024 9:09 am

    It is now looking likely that the NATO will be directly involved in air strikes against Russia: https://twitter.com/vicktop55/status/1764188254947946846

    Putin's bluff has been called off. He will do nothing when the NATO attacks Russia.

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    Post  Karl Haushofer Sun Mar 03, 2024 9:11 am

    Big attack against Crimea today. No doubt that the West was involved in it.

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:07 am

    And the worst thing is that when they went home and were hailed as heros they got their budget cut because obviously they spent too much money on it all.

    Well, from this perspective, we can consider it a wise move.
    Falkland experience shows, that a single Soviet naval aviation regiment would have swept an entire Royal Navy.
    In one row.
    Maybe even some of it's squadrons wouldn't feel the need to get into air Laughing Laughing Laughing
    A combination of six missiles, dud dumb bombs, and dud torpedos scored a 20% of a whole task force.
    A squadron of Soviet naval aviation would release 24-36 Mach3.5+ missiles. Four-six times the number Argentinians had.
    One squadron.
    And those missiles were carrying at least half a tone warhead each.
    Forget the aviation.
    Put one 670 class sub, with 8 pieces of P-70 or P-120 on board Laughing Laughing Laughing
    Pesky Soviets had 17 of those at that time Laughing Twisted Evil Laughing

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #54 - Page 11 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #54

    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:13 am

    Plans are out, NATO forces plan to block off Odessa so russia cannot get it and all of west and central Ukraine.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:52 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Plans are out, NATO forces plan to block off Odessa so russia cannot get it and all of west and central Ukraine.

    And what NATO plans to do there?
    Send superman to block missiles with his chest?

    they believe that when Russia is ready to take Odessa, they will stop it because some american, british, poles, romanians and french cannon fodder are there?

    So Russia till now tried to avoid escalation and offered a way out to all western countries, but they always interpreted it with Russia being weak, so they believe that Russia will back out because Putin is scared of confronting them in his backyard?

    The moment NATO military will be there in an official role (and not in a covert role as it has been until now) they will become a real part of the conflict and also their decision centers in their countries will become a legitimate target, as they will lose the "plausibile deniability" excuse they had till now.

    Probably Russia will avoid escalating that much and will limit to just destroying the NATO forces in Ukraine and eventual bases abroad used to support the attacks.

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #54 - Page 11 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #54

    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Mar 03, 2024 11:41 am

    I assume they will merely stand there and do nothing which is all they need to do, Chances are they are calling Putin's bluff, I could be wrong but I do not think Putin will let the military fire on official foreign forces unless attacked first

    "We know you wont attack our forces long as we don't shoot first and we will make sure you cannot go around us so gg".

    And going by the past, Putin's bluffs have been called before.

    We will see how this plays out but not securing Odessa while they had the chance would be a massive failure


    Last edited by SeigSoloyvov on Sun Mar 03, 2024 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total

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