Russian special military operation in Ukraine #54

"Only the Black sea fleet. That commander should have been put on trial for shamefully losing so many ships against an opponent with no navy."

Dumbest popular line related to the conflict of all time?

Like how biased or dumb do you have to be to think navies are the largest threat to navies, and not air forces (or even ground forces with AShMs).. especially in the Black Sea aka lake? LOL

shamefully losing so many ships against an opponent with no navy.

Ukraine does not have a navy because all the ships they had were captured or destroyed by Russia.
And not having a navy does not mean not having anti-ship capabilities, Ukraine received hundreds of USV drones, hundreds of anti-ship missiles and hundreds of stealth cruise missiles, all combined with 24/7 Nato ISR. All of this ignored because otherwise the whole pathetic speech about "lose a ship to someone who doesn't have a navy" falls apart like a house of cards.

Massive cope and massive BS

That's a perfect description of your latest comments.

Russians lost way more than just one warship
Saratov, Moskva, Ivanovec, Kunikov, etc... all literally sunk

When I said one ship sink and three damaged I was referring to just those under the Storm Shadow/Scalp attack.

Stop trying to polish such a massive turd, it's unseeml

You are the one here praising those who spend two years and copious amounts of resources to destroy 5 old and obsolete ships. While ignoring the fact that the Black Sea Fleet:
- Ensured the safety of navigation of one of Russia's most important maritime trade routes.
- Blocked Ukraine's maritime trade.
- Continues to launch cruise missiles destroying numerous important targets throughout Ukraine.
Polishing a massive turd? You are again describing your own behavior...

Russia really needs to get a team down to the Red Sea shooting gallery and help the Houthis sink a British ship

That will never happen. At least not during Putins reign. The opportunities would be unlimited.The Anglo scum could do nothing about it. British and American sailors would  be dead.

Russians lost way more than just one warship
Saratov, Moskva, Ivanovec, Kunikov, etc... all literally sunk

Not one of them was a modern vessel. All were 40 years old, mostly non-combatants such as LSTs, with minimal sensors and armed with nothing more than a twin 57mm mount and a few LMGs. Some were sitting in dry dock for repairs or a new corvette alongside the quayside getting fitted out.

Yeah, a great victory that smashed the Russian Navy on the level of Tsushima...

When you are failing so hard, I guess its natural to grab onto any old propaganda flotsam in a vain effort to keep yer head above water...

Their age has nothing to do with his point, he called one guy out for lying saying only one ship was sunk.  When more then one has been sunk.

You are bringing up factors that where never mentioned them going on about propaganda.

It's it cope now to point out when someone makes a factually wrong statement on purpose?.

Also the age factor is damage control, most of the lost ships where in port protected by liars AA and more and they still got sunk.

And the weapon argument is also wrong and silly warships turn off their weapon when in port. So even if the ships had ciws etc, they would be off while the ship docked.

So a modern warship would have met the same fate as those older vessels

But there are multiple such modern vessels actively operating in the Black Sea at this very moment - not one has been sunk despite 2 years of NATO throwing everything in the sink to find and destroy them. So yeah, the relevancy of weapon systems is a very valid point to make. No amount of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "lalalala can't hear you" can change facts on the ground. Never has, never will.

F-16s could pose a challenge for the Ukrainian Armed Forces, according to Politico

Politico reports that merely teaching Ukrainian military personnel to pilot the F-16 is not sufficient. The aircraft will still require maintenance and operational support, which presents significant challenges. On the ground, F-16s could become prime targets for enemy bombing, while in the air, they may be vulnerable to Russian air defense systems.

Furthermore, getting F-16s airborne could prove to be a logistical hurdle. The smooth runway required for F-16 operations may not be available during wartime conditions. Attempting takeoff on damaged or uneven surfaces could lead to mechanical issues, unlike Soviet MiGs and Su aircraft, which are less sensitive to runway conditions, as noted in the report.

Not in the context of the discussion, most of the ships where destroyed in port and again warships turn off their weapons in port it's up to the ports defenses too protect them at that stage and they have failed numerous times.

So the argument of weapons isn't even a good one, as those weapons systems failed to protect ships in their own harbor.

Slava was lost at sea btw,

The Ukies Coast is also a no go zone for the Russians navy they do not send their ships close to it anymore.

And the Russians being dumb enough to send ships that cannot protect themselves out I to open water where they know drones are lurking is even more retarded then the ships being lost with escort.

Your boot licking for what is sheer incompetence on  part of the Black sea fleet command cannot be changed no no matter what bs argument you want to make

Mines fitted with rockets from the RPG-7. For small ad-hoc mine "fields".

There is a video of those being launched... essentially mines are superglued to RPG-7 rockets and ballistically launched into position rather than hand laying them.

Much safer for those laying the mines.

If he is ever back in Ukraine Russia should offer him a job, results speak for themselves

He definitely has far superior skills than clowns running Russian surface navy

Bullshit... if anything it shows how weak HATO is... the damage they have done is pathetic considering the billions of dollars in stealthy cruise missiles and HARMS and decoys and special drones they have used, and the damage has been minimal... pathetic even.

I know some will say it's the entire line but it ain't, Ukraine hasn't moved an inch in some spots.

Any parts of the line left behind will be encircled... such positions are sometimes not so easy to defend from all directions.

But that's also because they aren't being pressured.

So they will either get surrounded or withdraw to avoid being surrounded.

Will the Russians do anything if Ukraine's F-16s launch air to ground missiles from NATO's airspace, can they choose to shoot them down in NATO's airspace with SAMs or air to air missiles if they don't choose to bomb NATO's runways hosting the aircrafts?

If they operate from HATO bases then those bases become legitimate targets... a few hypersonic Kinzhals will stir up the pot there...

Remember I think Stoltenberg said the Ukrainians will use F-16s outside their borders.

He said a lot of things, but if they start flying F-16s from HATO territory to attack targets in Ukraine and Russia then they become legitimate targets... Russia wont be able to tell if they are being flown by HATO pilots of Kievs pilots so I would say they would declare a no fly zone where all unidentified aircraft will be considered hostile and be shot down.

That commander should have been put on trial for shamefully losing so many ships against an opponent with no navy.

What a ridiculous thing to say. On paper those Storm Shadows should have been enough to take out the entire active Russian fleet in the Black Sea... they are supposed to be stealthy.

There is no evidence and no claims that Storm Shadows hit a single Russian ship... they even pretend that the Moskva was hit by Neptunes.

It's time for Putler to master some courage and strike them hard.....

For talking about a plan?

Saratov, Moskva, Ivanovec, Kunikov, etc... all literally sunk

Oh please... we don't know what happened to the Moskva and those other boats are mine countermeasures boats and transports.

The Argentinians were more successful with half a dozen Exocets.

It's it cope now to point out when someone makes a factually wrong statement on purpose?.

It is cope to claim the person in charge of the black sea fleet is incompetent because a neighbour an arms throw away from them with the full support and assistance of HATO with a trillion dollar a year military budget between them all has managed to sink a few ships over a two year period.

More importantly to claim that a commander is incompetent because the forces under his command take losses.

Clearly someone who does not understand war.

Also the age factor is damage control, most of the lost ships where in port protected by liars AA and more and they still got sunk.

No they weren't. The Moskva and that mine counter measures ship and the sub and the transport boat in dry dock were hardly in "port protected".

The transport ship that was sunk in port was hit by submunitions from a Tochka... and will likely be refloated and put back into service.

There is no evidence or explanation as to what even happened to the Moskva. Suggesting it was Neptune missiles, yet no other ship has been hit by Neptune missiles makes the claims sound rather weak.

And the weapon argument is also wrong and silly warships turn off their weapon when in port. So even if the ships had ciws etc, they would be off while the ship docked.

And the air defence systems in the port would protect the vessels and buildings.

So a modern warship would have met the same fate as those older vessels

Except that they didn't. And nor did the more modern warships that were underway get hit.

The ships hit were landing vessels and mine countermeasures vessels...

Papa's point before hand is that those vessels that sunk were old and rather useless at their job and in end proved it by sinking. The others were just transport vessels with no real defense. I suppose small missile ships and patrol vessels to escort other ships is necessary as they are more geared to fighting off these navy drones. Larger ships to help fight off cruise missiles.

Papas claim was that the guy in charge of the Black Sea Fleet should be fired or prosecuted because of damage or loss of minor old ships in surprise freak attacks where most of the missiles and drones and decoys used in the attack were defeated.

It seems Papa plays chess in a different style to most... you lose the game when you lose your first piece...

So what the hell were they doing in active warzone then?

That is where they are based.

If Russian Navy didn't want to spend money on upgrading them they could have at least sent some Russian made ships as protection if they were so insistent on still using Soviet junk so far past expiration date

So risk new ships defending old obsolete ships... you are a genius.

Organizational and command failure, plain and simple

They protected the important ships and subs and also some rather important HQ buildings and comms centres on the Crimea that the west would have loved to have hit.

Instead they hit some old junk.

F-16s could pose a challenge for the Ukrainian Armed Forces, according to Politico

Something we have known all along... F-16s are fragile.

Not in the context of the discussion, most of the ships where destroyed in port

No they weren't. The recent cargo ship was underway off the coast of Crimea, before that was a mine countermeasures ship hit by drones, and another landing ship with weapons on board in port was hit by Tochka with a submunition warhead. The Moskva was also at sea when it ran into trouble and the other landing ship and sub that were hit were both in dry dock.

So the argument of weapons isn't even a good one, as those weapons systems failed to protect ships in their own harbor.

If the harbour defences fail why did they go for the old tubs?

If the harbour defences failed why didn't they go for the Black Sea Fleet HQ?

The harbour defences defended what was worth defending... and in most attacks three quarters of the weapons and drones used were destroyed... and in all the attacks you never hear about all of the missiles and drones were destroyed.

And the Russians being dumb enough to send ships that cannot protect themselves out I to open water where they know drones are lurking is even more retarded then the ships being lost with escort.

With all the intel and money of HATO in the period of two years the success rate has been absolutely pathetic... and completely sustainable for the Russian Navy.

Your boot licking for what is sheer incompetence on  part of the Black sea fleet command cannot be changed no no matter what bs argument you want to make

The Orcs have been reduced to attacking civilians, which shows how ineffective they are, so of course claims that the BSF is incompetent is about the only chance for success for Kiev, but they will lose the war anyway so even that is no success.

The "warzone" is anywhere Ukies missiles can reach there is no such thing had. A limit, pure cope and excuses to try and say the warzone is some limited space.

And Garry as for why the major surface ships haven't been targeted in port is because the Russians moved most of them away to naval facilities closer to Georgia, putting them out of range of Ukies drones and missiles. The bigger ships only stop by their for supplies and to rearm quickly and get out

Also your excuses chang nothing the BSF command failed and the bases defenses have failed at times not always to protect ships.

Hell the command staff off the BSF should have been purges the day after they lost a landing ship because they left it full of explosive drones and when the missile hit it cooked em off.

Everyone knows you unload that stuff during wartime, it's one of the most basic procedures and they failed at even that

Hell the command staff off the BSF should have been purges the day after they lost a landing ship because they left it full of explosive drones and when the missile hit it cooked em off.

Explosives and fuel are vulnerable... even to hand grenade sized weapons... having it on a ship is no different from having it in various buildings on the pier.

At least with them on the transport ship if it catches fire the ship can be scuttled to put the fires out.

That ship in port was hit more by luck than by design... the weapon used was a Tochka ballistic missile and was probably aimed at the warehouses at the port rather than ships at dock.

You and others can claim any losses at all are a failure of command, but losses are part war... if you are not man enough to accept them then you are not ready for war.

Remember I think Stoltenberg said the Ukrainians will use F-16s outside their borders.

Stoltenberg said that the Ukros can attack targets outside their borders with the F-16s.

they lost a landing ship because they left it full of explosive drones 

Then all naval planners in the US should be fired, because they still use supply ships loaded
with ammo.

Papadragon wrote:So what the hell were they doing in active warzone then?

Because you need to fight a war with the forces you have, not the forces you want. The alternative is run and hide, and Russia isn't about to do that.

You have to fight and use what you have is true . And making best use of what you have is also true . The Russian Ship Radar and land attack missiles are being used to inflict damage . They are not being best used / protected with what they have , against sea drones and cruise missiles . While at Sea , MG and cannon on board could have been installed and manned 24/7  to intercept Sea drones . While at Port in harbour , they could have been protected with fishing nets , hung across the harbour walls against cruise missiles . That is best used .

Napoleon or Hitler , despite their military genius , could not stop their troops from freezing in the Russian winter . Many decisions are nothing to do with personal brilliance and more to do with collective or social action , or environmental conditions .

Military Summary
@MilitarySummary

Oskol River-Kupyansk Analysis

There is few Crossing points over Oskol river, Marked with black area on map(ukrainians set up on these places pontoon bridges)
Yellow Arrow shows logistic routes, there is 2 primary and 2 secondary lines.

If Russians wants to do succesful offensive, They have to destroy every crossing at the same time and every time Ukraine repairs damage, it should be targeted again.
#UkraineRussianWar



GEROMAN -- time will tell - --
@GeromanAT
2 Ukrainian pontoon bridges have been taken out by RF air forces over the last 48h
(all regular bridges along the Oskol river have been taken out last year already)