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Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

higurashihougi

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Post n°951

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

higurashihougi Mon Sep 16, 2024 4:23 am

Video Clip:

https://www.facebook.com/K01Archive/videos/1185175082550967

An Ukrainian civilian was ambushed by 5 Maidan Nazis who want to abducted him for conscription.

The clever civilian pretended to surrender, and when the Nazis was off-guard, the civilian suddenly ran away, escaping successfully.

One Nazi tripped on the water and fell down when trying to pursue the civilian.

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caveat emptor

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Post n°952

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

caveat emptor Mon Sep 16, 2024 4:51 am

PapaDragon wrote:
Riiiiight....

When fanatical Brussels loving pride flag-waiving Belgrade ultra liberals start being upset about Serbia possibly helping Ukraine (like they have been for a while now) you know someone is full of shit

Are you talking about picousti aka pussy lips aka Vučić or our chief of general staff Mojsilovic, who is a openly a pro-NATO man? Not that Vucic gives a shit about his opinion.

PapaDragon

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Post n°953

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

PapaDragon Mon Sep 16, 2024 8:31 am

caveat emptor wrote:....
Are you talking about picousti aka pussy lips aka Vučić or our chief of general staff Mojsilovic, who is a openly a pro-NATO man? Not that Vucic gives a shit about his opinion.

I'm talking about those chimpanzees who are jerking each other off in the streets trying to do a color revolution again, this time over (checks notes) environment

Yeah...

Because if there was one thing that Serbs were concerned about throughout their history it's environment

And about their totally politically compatible honchos like Obradovic and Tepic for example because it makes perfect sense for people of those political convictions to even be standing on the same side of street together

I do love when my nationalists and ultra liberals are getting along so well and working together especially over helping Russia, totally not suspicious

Meanwhile I'm still waiting for Serbia to send military aid to Ukraine, they've been saying it will happen any day now for over two years

I'm just worried that at this pace the war will be over before it happens, we wouldn't want that would we? It would make some folks look like (gasp!) liars

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GarryB

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Post n°954

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

GarryB Mon Sep 16, 2024 8:46 am

Such attacks will not cause war with NATO, even Storm Shadow or JASSM fire, therefore the West will scale it if it wants and Russia will not respond. Only an ICBM and SLBM attack on Russian territory will cause war.

Your confidence is impressive... I suspect many in HATO share your view... will be interesting so see how that works out for you all... remember before Russia invaded the Ukraine there was a confidence that Putin would fold... no way he would invade the Ukraine... till he did of course.

Russia could mount a large attack on the remaining Ukrainian energy infrastructure and heating plants... the resulting wave of refugees to Europe is going to do more damage to Europe and relations between Europe and Kiev that any actual attack they could mount on EU soil.

Meanwhile I'm still waiting for Serbia to send military aid to Ukraine, they've been saying it will happen any day now for over two years

Serbia should be over the moon now that it is clear they have Lithium... with the loss of the Ukraine (whatever is left is going to be broken and very expensive to fix so any Lithium they can get is barely going to cover it) the Serbia becomes their best bet moving forward... so they know they can't control you and dictate to you just yet but they will want your favour... that is a lot of lithium and they are banking on an electric future for which lithium is critical.

Also wanted to add this video... a Ukrainian unit was launching a Tochka at the Russians... the Russians withdrew these old missiles from service a while ago... probably close to their expiry dates. Solid rocket fuel becomes unstable after a while or if not properly stored...

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ALAMO

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Post n°955

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

ALAMO Mon Sep 16, 2024 9:05 am

lancelot wrote:
Oh it is way worse than that. Bulgarian T-72s, Czech T-72s, Morrocan T-72s, they are all ending up in Ukraine.

Sure they did, but those numbers do not come out of nowhere.
As I said - Poland was the heaviest army in Europe, that is why it was pushed to donate so many pieces practically disarming itself.
All the other ex WarPac members didn't have the corresponding numbers, combined.
We are talking about - as I said - +/-500 pcs of a different condition, and that is only if we add all declared L2s - 91 pcs in total.
With maybe a hundred more declared, and being at different stages of implementation - and that includes archaic L1s and some L2s that were not operational and needed an intensive care operation.

What was a big reservoir of the ukrs was their own stocks of nonoperational pieces that were used for a speedy increase of the numbers.
Here is where the ex WarPac countries could help, having their own repair&maintnance business running. Poland had an active program of upgrading T-72s for our own need - which turned out ukro need.

And that does not came out from nowhere either - check the white books of the Ukraine that were published before 240222.
All the numbers there are steadily rising.
They were arming themselves up to their teeth. At least on paper, but all that money could not be stolen - something sunk into.

This whole circus about the west supplying them is shit driven.
Compute the fact that they used to operate 200 launchers of S-300 only, with the overall number of delivered western SAMs. Even with ancient S-125 ...
Before the war, all the money they got was arranging their own MIC.
They have their own cruise missiles with 500 km range.
They had own 300mm MLRS with GPS correction reaching 120 km.
They had a running line of upgrading the existing T-64 fleet.
All the AD assets were steadily repaired, the same allied to all the airfleet.
But finally, nothing has ever changed the fact, that what else they have is a gargatumic corruption organized at all levels, bottom up. It turned out that no, not 4 batteries of Neptune were ready - but a single pieces still not organized. Or that the upgrades of their MLRS are in homeopathic scale, leaving them with a few pcs of Vilkha ald a couple more of Olkha.

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Arrow

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Post n°956

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

Arrow Mon Sep 16, 2024 9:43 am

This also shows that NATO does not have that much equipment that is efficient enough to give to Ukraine. Besides, they also have to have some reserves. The US has about 1,000 Patriot systems alone, so they could possibly deliver much more AD. They have it scattered around the world.

Arrow

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Post n°957

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

Arrow Mon Sep 16, 2024 10:29 am

Yes, the number of S-400s is impressive. It must be remembered that they also modernized from 20 battalions of S-300PM to PM-2 standard. Each battalion has about 12 launchers. Bukovs have over 500 launchers in total, from over 200 S-300V launchers to the new S-300V4.

I think that the most interesting development is currently taking place in ABM systems, Russia has already perhaps overtaken the US in this respect and their famous NMD, THAAD, etc., on which huge amounts of money were spent with little effect.
Russia is currently completely modernizing Moscow's ABM, introducing a mobile ABM against ICBM S-500, another modernization of S-550, modernization of excellent 53T6 and Nudol. The US withdrew from ABM and Russia could develop its capabilities in this area.

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Mir

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Post n°958

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

Mir Mon Sep 16, 2024 10:34 am

ucmvulcan wrote:
I think a thermonuclear exchange is a foregone conclusion. I am looking at somewhere in the Rockies, if I can get far away enough from any potential target, the mountains will protect from the blast. The fallout will be an issue depending on wind direction but the mountains will protect from the blast.

Avalanche! affraid

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JohninMK

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Post n°959

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

JohninMK Mon Sep 16, 2024 10:49 am

Mir wrote:
Avalanche!

Mount St Helens thumbsup

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Isos

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Post n°960

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

Isos Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:03 am

Arrow wrote:This also shows that NATO does not have that much equipment that is efficient enough to give to Ukraine. Besides, they also have to have some reserves. The US has about 1,000 Patriot systems alone, so they could possibly deliver much more AD. They have it scattered around the world.

1100 launchers. Not 1100 Patriots. And only 480 in service according to the wikipedia page. That's some 100 patriot system in service if you consider a system has 4 launchers. Even less in reality since they use 6 launchers for one system.

Considering they have a shitton of geran 2 and silver bullet aka Kinzhal and now iranian ballistic missiles, that's a really bad choice to give them Patriots as they will be using 4 million dollars missiles against low cost targets. Russia would be happy.

German Iris-T are a better option if it can be produced in huge quantity but it can't.

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JohninMK

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Post n°961

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

JohninMK Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:40 am

No doubt there will be more of this as the UA falls back implementing a scorched earth policy.

https://x.com/i/status/1835576971620651517

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ALAMO

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Post n°962

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

ALAMO Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:44 am

Isos wrote:

Arrow wrote:This also shows that NATO does not have that much equipment that is efficient enough to give to Ukraine. Besides, they also have to have some reserves. The US has about 1,000 Patriot systems alone, so they could possibly deliver much more AD. They have it scattered around the world.

1100 launchers. Not 1100 Patriots. And only 480 in service according to the wikipedia page. That's some 100 patriot system in service if you consider a system has 4 launchers. Even less in reality since they use 6 launchers for one system.

It is not that easy.
I had a long comment, but tried to edit it and canceled by accident Laughing

Anyway, the point is that again, westernoid propaganda is mixing people's heads.
If you will look into official Raytheon page, they call 240 "fire units" produced in total.
What they call a "fire unit" we can figure out from let's say Polish contract - a fire unit is 4 launchers.
Does that differs for the other contracts? Unknown ...

Muricans operate 16 batteries of Patriot, with the 16th only newly established.
Now comes the question of the composition of each battery.
Let's say Poland made two contracts, in 2018 and 2024, and considering it - a battery consists of 2 fire units with 4 starting units each.

Does it apply to the US, or other compositions?
No idea.
If so, then a "240 fire units" would apply to roughly 1000 starting units, distributed for all the users.
And 16 batteries would mean 32 fire units with 128 starting units ... And that's it.
If muricans are using the full set of 8 starting units - it would make 256 starting units.
If they are using a 4 fire units per battery, that would make 512 ...
And that's all.

Now, the same applies to the S-400 units.
There are 29 regiments claimed with S-400, but the number of batteries varies, with the lowest being 56 in 2020, to the highest of 87 for 2023. Every battery operates at least 4 launchers, with up to 8 potential.
So the lowest number would be 224 launchers, and the highest ... 696.

And we have not even started yet with the whole array, hundreds of S-300, Buks, S-350, S-500, S-550 ...

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GarryB

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Post n°963

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

GarryB Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:07 pm

1100 launchers. Not 1100 Patriots.

If they can't stop Russian missiles then it doesn't matter how many they have or how many they deliver. The most effective use of Patriots honestly seems to be hitting Ukrainian apartment blocks near the targets Russian attack missiles are destroying.

THAAD is even more expensive and they are not using it so it is even worse than useless.

No doubt there will be more of this as the UA falls back implementing a scorched earth policy.

Further evidence if any evidence was needed that this is not Ukrainian land.

All that obsolete old Soviet era stuff being destroyed by the retreating Orcs just makes things simpler for the Russian construction crews as they move forward and rebuild the place... everything will be new and the region will start producing and paying taxes and contributing to Russian growth very quickly...

And we have not even started yet with the whole array, hundreds of S-300, Buks, S-350, S-500, S-550 ...

The Russian Army takes air defence very seriously, while the western armies tend to expect their air forces to sort that out for them... or their opponents don't have any air power or drones to speak of.

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Arrow

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Post n°964

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

Arrow Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:15 pm

I didn't think the US had so few THAADs, although they are investing more in the SM-3 naval ABM system. Soon Russia will have more S-500 systems than the US has THAAD. Of course, the S-500 is much more modern.

GarryB

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Post n°965

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

GarryB Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:06 pm

In many ways S-350 is better than THAAD, let alone late model S-300 and S-300V. S-400 is way better while being able to intercept all sorts of targets as well as ballistic targets.... and they are all much cheaper than THAAD.

S-400 is like PAC-2 Patriot plus PAC-3 Patriot plus THAAD all rolled in to one system and yet cheaper to buy and to operate than any single one of those US systems...

The US Army assumes the US airforce will deal with enemy air threats, but fighting Russia or even China the USAF will be struggling to remain alive because they use aircraft as force multipliers like JSTARS and AWACS and inflight refuelling aircraft... and if those get smacked down early in the conflict by large long range enemy AAMs then they become force dividers... diminishing the performance of the fleet rather than boosting it.

Even ignoring their low readiness rate and the threat to their airfields in real conflict, every mission they fly every aircraft they lose will reduce their attack potential, but will also reduce their defence potential too... to the point where their low sortie rate and enormous cost wont be a problem because they will run out of planes and airfields and pilots pretty quickly.

Ironically if they leave it for 5 years the Russians are going to have dedicated anti drone vehicles and anti drone systems fitted to most of their existing vehicle types and new mini SAMs to defend small positions and small groups of armour, and their drones are going to be launched near the front line and they are going to ruthlessly track down enemy troops and vehicles automatically using AI and each drone will be allocated to each target to destroy and there will be recon drones monitoring the attack and if it needs another drone another drone will be sent till the target is taken down and it will be all without human input so this can be happening millions of times an hour... rapidly depleting the enemy force... showing no mercy and needing no rest or psychological treatment after the conflict.

The low cost of glide kits for dumb bombs means they can make them and deploy them and actually use them in enormous numbers with a very significant effect on the front line and further afield.

The Russians are now battle hardened and they know which tactics work.

The west has a few shell shocked HATO advisors and a few thousand mercs they can probably call upon that have been on the receiving end and perhaps know how to survive... but I think the west should be very worried about their superiority on the battlefield because from what I have seen their armour is mediocre, yet still overweight and expensive and not produced in the sort of numbers they will be needing... and there is little chance of that changing any time soon. They might claim their air power is something special, but they claimed their armour and SAMs were special too.

Really not impressed.

And the way Finland stated they were not involved in any attacks on Russian territory suggests they are not interested in playing that game... they are realising Bear baiting is not so safe when you share a border with the bear and you now realise that is why you were allowed to join the gang... the way they are promising Ukraine that it can join too... all it has to do is defeat Russia in combat on the Eastern Front in Europe... easy peasy.

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franco

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Post n°966

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

franco Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:31 pm

Russian MoD reporting 2265 Ukrainian casualties over the past 24 hours including;

During the day, the losses of the Armed Forces amounted to more than 350 military personnel and 13 armored vehicles, including two tanks and 11 armored combat vehicles, as well as two artillery pieces, three mortars, two multiple rocket launchers, including one M270 MLRS manufactured by the United States, and 8 vehicles.

In total, during the fighting in the Kursk direction, the enemy lost more than 13,800 troops, 115 tanks, 44 infantry fighting vehicles, 91 armored personnel carriers, 729 armored combat vehicles, 439 vehicles, 98 artillery pieces, 28 multiple rocket launchers, including seven HIMARS and six MLRS manufactured by the United States, eight anti-aircraft launchers missile systems, two transport-loading vehicles, 26 electronic warfare stations, seven counter-battery radars, two air defense radars, thirteen units of engineering equipment, Of these, seven engineering barrage vehicles and one UR-77 mine clearance unit.

https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12529441@egNews

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ALAMO

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Post n°967

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

ALAMO Mon Sep 16, 2024 3:32 pm

Arrow wrote:I didn't think the US had so few THAADs, although they are investing more in the SM-3 naval ABM system. Soon Russia will have more S-500 systems than the US has THAAD. Of course, the S-500 is much more modern.

They have 7 batteries with 6 starting units each. That's all.
Distributed all over the globe.
Which was never an effective system, having serious issues even with intercepting Scarab sort of a target even at controlled test conditions.
And which falls behind the Russkie systems that have never been optimized for the role.
The ones that actually were - like the V family - with the latest V4 version eats it alive with double the range of interception... And it is still not the top notch of Russkie systems, with S-500 already there ...

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nomadski

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Post n°968

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

nomadski Mon Sep 16, 2024 5:16 pm

I still think that if Russia finds itself in as position , where it has to engage NATO troops directly , in Ukraine or elsewhere , that it risks a lot . True until now , NATO sent advisors and some old equipment and a few planes and Rockets . A lot of money , to prop up their proxy , and fill the greedy belly of the MIC . But they did not face an existential threat on their soil , from Russia . This will change entirely , if Russian engages with conventional weapons on their soil , If their troops are killed or civilians killed . Their strength now is no measure of their true strength , under fire . They can mobilise troops , put their industry into war mode . And they can do this , because they will have public and political support . I still think Russia , in response to a significant conventional strike by NATO , should respond with nuclear escalation . And show readiness to escalate to MAD , if needed . What the West has now and how it fights now , is no measure of what happens later . Ukraine is being won using conventional tactics . If we can include FAB 3000 as conventional ! But outside Ukraine , bigger guns are needed , to stop NATO ambitions .

SeigSoloyvov

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Post n°969

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

SeigSoloyvov Mon Sep 16, 2024 6:27 pm

Unless Russia tries to walk into a NATO country it will not face NATO, some countries might send troops on their own accord, Poland and the Baltics really are the only ones who would do this in large enough number to make any real difference. But those troops wouldn't be supported by NATO and would be told "your on your own don't cry to us for help"

as article five doesn't protect against actions like that.

The russians are indeed taking so long to deal with Ukraine, thanks to certain leadership but there's no major risk of a russia/NATO war.

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flamming_python

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Post n°970

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

flamming_python Mon Sep 16, 2024 7:55 pm

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Unless Russia tries to walk into a NATO country it will not face NATO, some countries might send troops on their own accord, Poland and the Baltics really are the only ones who would do this in large enough number to make any real difference. But those troops wouldn't be supported by NATO and would be told "your on your own don't cry to us for help"

as article five doesn't protect against actions like that.

The russians are indeed taking so long to deal with Ukraine, thanks to certain leadership but there's no major risk of a russia/NATO war.

Hence why the British are so eager to launch cruise missiles at Russia.
It's an easy way to get cruise missiles flying back at you and then they can point to the Russian threat as being to all of them and whatever.

But yeah, that aside, you're going to be asking European populations to first tighten their belts and then join the army for the sake of the Ukraine. That's really not the same as moralizing over Russia's invasion and cancelling Russian composers.

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Isos

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Post n°971

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

Isos Mon Sep 16, 2024 8:29 pm

Baltics and Poland lol1

Baltics

Polish hate Ukrainians. Why would they go die for them ? Iskanders and Gerans would wipe out all their air force and munition stocks. Those US radars and VLS would be destroyed just like all the polish power plants.

Baltics would be leveled before Stoltenburger starts crying on NBC.

Russians are waiting for this to happen actually.

And you can forget article 5.

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Hole

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Post n°972

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

Hole Mon Sep 16, 2024 9:16 pm

Which was never an effective system

It was very effective. For the western oligarchs. $$$$$ Wink

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SeigSoloyvov

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Post n°973

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

SeigSoloyvov Mon Sep 16, 2024 10:37 pm

Isos wrote:

Baltics and Poland Baltics

Polish hate Ukrainians. Why would they go die for them ? Iskanders and Gerans would wipe out all their air force and munition stocks. Those US radars and VLS would be destroyed just like all the polish power plants.

Baltics would be leveled before Stoltenburger starts crying on NBC.

Russians are waiting for this to happen actually.

And you can forget article 5.

Yeah and guess who the Poles hate more, the Russians.

The Poles do not want Russia on their border again, and they will resort to just about any method to prevent that

Your understanding of the world is bad

Isos

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Post n°974

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

Isos Mon Sep 16, 2024 10:49 pm

Yours is so good...

They don't want russians at their border but they will give them a reason to level all their military and industry...

Btw they already have a border with Russia, it's called Kaliningrad and they have had 0 issues with them. Actually if they are dumb enough to declare war on Russia they will have to occupy Kaliningrad which would be very hard to defend for Russia without taking the Baltics so that means nuclear missiles would be used or they invade the baltic states and a war with nato starts which also means nuclear missiles would be used.

What you say is beyond dumb. Poland would eat shit before starting a war on its own against Russia and forgetting about 5th article. They will go back to stone age in any case.

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SeigSoloyvov

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Post n°975

Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #60

SeigSoloyvov Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:00 pm

Isos wrote:Yours is so good...

They don't want russians at their border but they will give them a reason to level all their military and industry...

Btw they already have a border with Russia, it's called Kaliningrad and they have had 0 issues with them. Actually if they are dumb enough to declare war on Russia they will have to occupy Kaliningrad which would be very hard to defend for Russia without taking the Baltics so that means nuclear missiles would be used or they invade the baltic states and a war with nato starts which also means nuclear missiles would be used.

What you say is beyond dumb. Poland would eat shit before starting a war on its own against Russia and forgetting about 5th article. They will go back to stone age in any case.

Kaliningrad isn't connected to mainland Russia.

Also they know well enough they can send troops into Ukraine and Poland its self will not be attacked, long as those Polish troops do not move into Russia's it's self.

Yeah mine is better than yours, I have been to Poland I know how they feel about this. I have much more experience here.

Poland will not try to occupy Kaliningrad, they would merely seek to prevent western Ukraine from falling into Russian hands and use that as a buffer zone.

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