Also Garry I require some insight on forum rules. I know forum rules say this isn't allowed but you have allowed this nutcase on more then one occasion to promote genocide use racists terms etc
he rewrote my name to include the word Nigger, which is a racist remark. I don't care that he did it, I just got to know are there no rules now? what's the operating procedure here?.
I can't tell what someone might find to be offensive and who might not.
The rules are stated in the Rules section of the forum and if you are offended by something someone said rather than reply in kind you are supposed to contact a mod and make a complaint. That mod will then look at it and deal with it based on the rules and the situation.
Supporting genocide is not against the rules otherwise there would be no posters from western countries allowed... they didn't just talk about it, they did it and wrote the book.
So your argument is because if Russian enemies provided the weapons its wrong.
The argument is that Kiev cannot operate these weapons without HATO direct assistance and recon support, so if it is OK for Kiev to attack Russia with these weapons with HATO assistance then it is also OK for Russian troops to assist Cuba to launch Russian nuclear missiles against targets inside US territory .
To use these weapons US assistance is required no matter where their targets are, which means the US is taking direct action in this conflict on the side fighting Russia, which makes US targets in the region and everywhere else legitimate targets does it not?
The USSR provided weapons to countries that fought the US in the past was it wrong then? we also in the past supplied arms to countries to strike at USSR forces
The USSR provided weapons to countries the US and others had invaded or occupied and those weapons were used against military targets that were not in the US of A, but in the countries the USSR was supporting.... Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, etc etc etc.
There were soviet weapons made in the USSR given to factions to strike at US forces.
US forces illegally in other countries like Syria and Iraq and Afghanistan etc etc etc.
The day Russia stops using foreign-made weapons in Ukraine, THEN they can demand and not seem childish.
The question is who is a party to the conflict.. I agree with you... I think Russia should have been attacking HATO countries supporting Kiev from day one because they are essentially the supply and recon arm of the nazis in Kiev. But the west pretends that despite funding and supplying weapons and ammo and "advisors" that they are not a party to this conflict.
Putin has said these long range weapons require US codes and US information for targeting... things that the Kiev regime can't do on its own.
Launching these weapons requires US active support which means they are part of the war and are now legitimate targets... the recent change in Russian laws regarding the Russian use of nuclear weapons makes it clear if Russia is fighting a proxy force that does not have nuclear weapons but is supported by one or more nuclear power then the use of nuclear weapons is allowed by Russia
if they see the need to use them. First official reaction from Moscow to the ATACMS missile strike on Bryansk region. Lavrov commented on the situation at a press conference during the G20 summit. Russia is firmly committed to the position of preventing nuclear war."
They launched 6 super uber weapons and caused a small fire that was put out... perhaps by your salty tears.
They have stepped on the mine and there was no explosion but is it on a timer or do they have to take their foot off before it will explode?
The line has been crossed and now Putin can do as he pleases up to and including nuclear weapons use.
What I think is actually most likely is that the plans to stop at Russian territory will be changed and the buffer zone will now be 350km and the war will continue much longer and there will be no peace talks while long range weapons are being used by the enemy.
If long range weapons are to allow negotiations from a position of strength then no negotiations makes that meaningless.
They don't give a **** about your nuclear doctrines Lavrov. You'll have to do something more substantive.
The fuckwits in charge of the west wont understand, but the people with brains understand that Putin and Russias hands are no longer tied and if they want to... they can strike anything they like with anything up to and including nuclear weapons.
So you guys expect Russia to go full nuclear because ONE ATCMS got through
It didn't even get through... it was damaged and landed inside the boundary fence of something and started a fire...
Also, don't run your mouth unless you intend to back it up with action.
The response is going to be carefully crafted to suit the crime... nobody died and a fire was started.... so obviously nuke Brussels during an EU meeting with everyone present... and most of the EU will probably thank Russia for that.
But as caveat emptor said, how many get through and what they strike is not really the point
And that is what is so great about it... they crossed the line and now Russia no longer has to worry about escalation... they can do as they please...
It can be their reason for stopping all sales of Uranium and Nickel and Titanium to the US or the West... export production can be reduced by the amount of those materials the US has been buying over the last few years so other countries can't just buy what the US needs and sell it on with a markup.
Russia is not being given a choice. If nothing is done sooner or later you'll have Tomahawks brought in per Zelensky's 'victory plan' and all Russian territory and major cities can come under attack.
Russian air defence is orders of magnitude better than any HATO country... including the US... how about we wait to see what Putins actual response is?
This is also why retaliation has to be against western countries and not Ukraine.
They are probably aware of HATO bases in Ukraine, including CIA bases and SOF bases, and indeed the US embassy which is essentially probably running the war and the Ukraine government...
Equally there are assets in the Ukraine owned now by Blackrock and other western companies... start destroying those and you will see their level of interest in this conflict fade dramatically.
But most of all, Russia just doesn't have 2 months to wait when under attack.
Well how about we wait and see what Putin actually does... it is amazing how much he doesn't do if you listen to some on this forum, yet he still seems to come out on top.
According to my understanding retaliatory measures will be covential hit inside Ukraine territory and probaply proxy actions somewhere.
I disagree... Putin clearly said that long range weapons in Ukrainian possession can't be used without the direct actions of US trained personel, which means the use of these weapons required direct action by US forces... which makes the US party to the conflict and therefore THE ENEMY.
The changes to their nuclear doctrine also spell out that while the use of nuclear weapons is not allowed against a proxy force that does not have nukes, it becomes possible to use nukes against a proxy side that is supported by a nuclear armed country... which is exactly what we have here...
It does not make nuclear weapon use mandatory, but they become an option if required... if deemed useful.
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Why not?
If Kiev attacks Russia with ATACMS missiles and it is determined there is a large stockpile of more such weapons in Poland in a warehouse then using a Zircon or Kinzhal or Kh-32 missile to destroy the warehouse with a conventional warhead would be a legitimate attack.
Now the potential enemy is becoming more convinced that we will never use it under any circumstances.
Really? Because the first claim was that Kiev could use long range weapons anywhere in Russia... and then all of a sudden they could only use it in the Kursk region against North Korean troops... why did they change that?
The point is that the West is less and less afraid, if at all, of Russian strategic nuclear weapons.
Yeah, the mouse is not afraid as it climbs on to the mousetrap to reach that lump of cheese just sitting there... but guess what... when that trap deploys and that little mouse head is crushed in the metal jaw mechanism who gives a **** what he is thinking?
And no Samson option got triggered, article V would go the same way
The fun part about HATO is that while each side is obliged to help other parties that are attacked by an outside power, that help can take many forms including verbal like Kiev is getting now from HATO.
If Russia destroys a HIMARS or ATACMS filled warehouse in Poland with a conventionally armed Zircon or Iskander or Kinzhal or Kh-32... is HATO going to invade Russia?
Russia won't even lift a finger towards NATO, let alone attack with 200 ballistic missiles.
If they can show that is where the ATACMS are coming from then it would be self defence.
And ? He has been drawing red lines and NATO consistently called him out.
No he hasn't. The only red line was Kievs entry to HATO and HATO has not even come close to crossing that red line.
All the other so called red lines are made up.... from modern MBTs and Javelins and ATACMS and HIMARS and F-16s... all the Russians said about those was their introduction would only prolong the war and make the Ukraine suffer more... which is true.
Goddammit don't they understand this isn't Ukraine vs Russia. But NATO vs Russia with Ukrainians being the tool to Bludgeon Russia to death ? This is do or die. Because death is what's coming.
Maybe take a chill pill and understand that Russia has not responded yet because the response was always going to be based on what happened and what happened in that first attack was **** all. The next attack might be a bit more serious or they might all get shot down too and its response will be more but they need to work out what happened because where the weapons came from might determine who gets attacked.
Poland or Romania?
what areas are the Russian MiC having trouble coping with supplying Russian forces?
Now they can buy from the North Koreans and Chinese and Iranians then, or indeed they can spend some Rupees and buy from India.
Thus far nothing that isn't that critical. But to come especially with NATO emboldened and supplying longer range missiles ?
So you just assume Russia will do nothing... the problem isn't Russia, the problem is the internet warriors who want instant revenge instead of planned calculated justice... that doesn't just feel good but damages Kievs ability to keep fighting.
Don't get me wrong the Russians are still fighting this war like its 1800 and there is some gentlemen code and that's punishing them hard and well deserved, if they want to fight the war like this, they get the repercussions of it
Another failure of the west... they haven't yet managed to turn them into colonial racist cunts like the leadership of the west are.
If Trump continues the same old shit? We'll be a lot closer to the find out part than we have been in decades.
If Trump turns out to be the same or even worse then Pandoras box has already been opened and Putins hands are now free... the US of ATACMS has made Kiev Americas proxy force and America, being a nuclear armed power makes everything up to the use of nuclear weapons on its proxy and other allies legitimate and legal under Russian law.
I don't care that you're bdid but the rules are the rules and if Garry won't enforce em might as well just let everything bea Free for all.
I haven't been asked to do anything yet, I have had no complaints by PM.
The personal attacks appear to be headed in every direction in equal portions, no matter who started it, most seem to continue it, and no one has been so offended that they have notified me directly.
Lots of waffle about to be moved to the off topic ukrainian war thread in the general discussion section....
And Russia waited three years to destroy this plant that provides ammunition to ukrainian military next to its border for what reason?
Because now they have no president based on their constitution, and they are running out of men and the electrical and heating grid is seriously damaged and they are retreating on the front line and winter is coming and so is Trump, and the west is running out of money... now is a good time to hit them in a lot of places.
Wait till they think they are safe and hit them hard and you do a lot more damage.
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Powerful explosion, secondary detonation and fire in the city of Shostka continue.
Kiko
