U.S Military encirclement of China

The mistake China made was the rhetoric. They should not have made the threats.

@Garry
Yes but Putin took Crimea

They may take some islands as sunrise suggested. The core problem still won't be solved, just like it wasn't in 2014.

ATLASCUB wrote:They may take some islands as sunrise suggested. The core problem still won't be solved, just like it wasn't in 2014.

Weren't you the one saying how tough and decisive China was awhile back ?

US organized the provocation and they wanted a knee-jerk reaction from China in order to force their vassals to cut relations with them. Well, by now they did not get what they wanted, so they will reinforce the humiliation card, with the vicious English establishment following suit. Surprising not...

Why should China give them what they want? Maybe we are all eager to start WWIII over that corrupt hag?

LMFS wrote:US organized the provocation and they wanted a knee-jerk reaction from China in order to force their vassals to cut relations with them. Well, by now they did not get what they wanted, so they will reinforce the humiliation card, with the vicious English establishment following suit. Surprising not...

Why should China give them what they want? Maybe we are all eager to start WWIII over that corrupt hag?

Fair point. The Saker has a point too. But this is sorta how the game is played. Can't wait to see what Paul Craig Roberts says

For all we know pelosi will be shot down when she leaves. And it will be the CIA who does it.

Backman wrote:Can't wait to see what Paul Craig Roberts says

I think we all know what he will say

For all we know pelosi will be shot down when she leaves. And it will be the CIA who does it.

Backman wrote:

ATLASCUB wrote:They may take some islands as sunrise suggested. The core problem still won't be solved, just like it wasn't in 2014.

Weren't you the one saying how tough and decisive China was awhile back ?

Lol what? Don't hallucinate. Although I don't think that's even going to help you.

BTW, Saker has actually some very good points in his piece about today's events:

"

First, in objective terms, this visit is a pure provocation with no practical effects whatsoever. Pelosi is as much a old teleprompter reading hag as President Brandon. Whatever real dealings the USA and Taiwan had to discuss, they would have done that either remotely or by arranging a meeting between people capable of thinking.

Second, just like Russia many times in the past, the Chinese drew a red line and then let the US cross it. Being the narcissistic civilization that it is, the West only saw this as a sign of “weakness”, “indecisiveness” or even “naivete”. What these folks fail to even think about is this: how do you feel most Chinese will react both to the visit and to the lack of Chinese reaction (so far!)? They will get mad and express their frustrations. Now look at it from the Chinese government’s point of view, rather then spending billions on anti-US propaganda they, instead, let the US humiliate China and thereby solidifying the Chinese population for the day when the real confrontation will take place.

[Sidebar: there is a direct connection between years of Kremlin’s rather weak and mostly verbal protests and the “sudden” appearance of the Russian ultimatum to the West followed by the SMO: the Kremlin literally “cooked” its own public opinion to the point were IT *demanded* strong action. Far from alienating or frightening most Russians, the SMO came as a huge relief to them: “we are FINALLY putting the foot down and taking real action”. That would not have been possible before 2018. Those in the West who saw Putin’s “indecisiveness” simply don’t understand the Russian mindset anymore than they understand the Chinese one. Simply put: you cannot prepare for war without preparing your own population for it! That is what Tom Clancy does to the brains of those reading him]

Third, let me ask you a simple question: who decided on the timing of Pelosi’s visit to Taiwan? The answer is obvious, it was the leaders of the USA. And you can bet that they had everything carefully lined up to make that visit happen in the best of possible circumstances. Now, a BASIC principle of warfare is that you do NOT let your enemy chose the time and place of the battle.

"

http://thesaker.is/nancy-braves-the-chinese-dragon-and-wins/

the jugs that destroyed a nation.

thegopnik wrote:

the jugs that destroyed a nation.

Mostruoso tette!

Nancy was a fine doll in her time.

flamming_python wrote:China's getting murdered on Twitter and Telegram

All seriousness though this will cause other US puppets to become more lippy with them and the Solomon Islands to swear off the Chinese base plans perhaps

That I think was the plan. There are also factions in China that want Xi gone. This was a shit test. If China did nothing then many not understanding the geopolitics would think Xi is weak, and propaganda campaigns in and out of China would echo this. If China did do something with this Xi visit, then the western "rules based" world order could unify against China.

They did this similarly with Russia. Coaxing Ukraine to take back the break away republics and join NATO. Again a shit test. If Russia did nothing it would be a sign of weakness and inability to resist the grey zone slithery geopolitics of the west. It could have even been signal for insiders in Russia to regime change Putin, and definitely start regime change operations that had previously failed in non aligned and former WP states.

But Russia did do something. This allowed them to stop NS2 and essentially ostracize Russia from the west. It was the best of terrible choices but in spite of some problems and major setbacks Russia is not just hanging in there but is still standing. The west is unnerved that the nuclear sanctions packages didnt do what they hoped, but they still stopped a western european and russian relationship around commerce and brought Europe to heel under the Anglo boot.

It certainly isnt going all their way tho. The insane ideologues, neolibs and neocons and their deconstruction and renovation of the west under full domination is starting to crack. Thry still might succeed, in fact there is a sizable chance they will. The key is we here in the west have to jam up their works so much that they have to rush their plans. The more the internal and external pressures push the neocons and neolibs, the more mistakes they make and the more people resist the grand illusions they have set up.

Russia and China still in the fight helps I think. But I dont trust their leaders either and frankly it seems most have some flavor of social control and radical change plus austerity measures. I dont like it. The western hegemons must be stopped. Sorry for rambling it's just nobody else sees all this or understands the danger we citizens are in. That our republics have been hijacked by rootless cosmopolitans and power brokers that have their wealth overseas, get their policy overseas and see us not as American citizens but consumers in one of many economic zones. Makes me sick

flamming_python wrote:China's getting murdered on Twitter and Telegram

All seriousness though this will cause other US puppets to become more lippy with them and the Solomon Islands to swear off the Chinese base plans perhaps

The multi polar world was coming along. Nobody sanctioned Russia for Ukraine.

It would have been better if China did something.  Why not bomb a runway in Taipei ? Just one runway. Make a big crater. Let the hag land on a different one. They could just tell the US. Hey we are just gonna bomb a runway.

I see no downside in an idea like this. It is similar to what Iran did for Qsm.

Trump humiliated Xi more than once. He bombed Syria on the time he visited Xi. He sanctioned like hell.

flamming_python wrote:

ATLASCUB wrote:Nancy was a fine doll in her time.

Hard to imagine

And honestly..

Would prefer not to imagine

A google away. No need to imagine.
-----------------------------------------

The U.S will continue to rot, along with their assets, Taiwan, from the inside, like they did Ukraine. The young generation of millennials is gonna be a big time issue for the Chinese just like it's for Russia in Ukraine, perhaps even worse. The early 20s to mid 30 somethings.

Time is on China's side economically and militarily speaking on the grand chessboard but it's inverse, with an adverse effect, when it comes to the heart and minds of the military aged, and coming of aged adults in Taiwan. The U.S is also not sitting on its laurels but amassing a coalition of the willing to be their dogs in the Pacific region to precisely try to bluff the Chinese from imposing a total blockade on Taiwan if the military option is exercised. The more time the U.S has on their hand to strengthen this nexus, the more time Japan has to rearm, the worse the options for China, and the greater the risk of miscalculations from both sides. In many ways, indecisiveness and inaction now and in the very near future could make things extremely worse long term.

Considering Taiwan is relatively easier to take over militarily, as an isolated island, than say, the more expansive and populated, with multiple land-borders Ukraine, the Chinese may need a reality check and shuffling of strategic thinkers. Overthinking the stick is costly. Don't overthink the stick. The complex military issue is the landing (bridgeheads if you will) and supply lines...... other than that organized resistance would fall more quickly without resupply from the outside (assuming the necessary, baseline blockable that needs to be maintained is established). Western weapon systems under stress will buckle, and so will its performance. More so than that, it's simply a numbers game. For all the flak Ukraine gets, I would trust a Ukranian general more in a war, than a Taiwanese one. An army and cadre with a legacy built for world war vs. what? Civil war runaways with well maintained toys but little real time experience, closed off on an island. I'll take my chances against the uninitiated with nowhere to run vs. the other.

The Chinese will obviously need to manufacture, or opportunistically use a crises as a casus belli... since this one is clearly not going to be acted upon to such an extent... the "next one". They need to be very smart about this aspect, and if I were them I would be pushing internal assets hard to create strong polarization socially... much easier to take over a heavily polarized target - just support and enable your side and ride it to the moon hard. It does have a chance of backfiring in the sense that your side gets totally neutralized and exiled but even that can be used as a casus belli and profited from.

Things are getting a bit dicey with these drills. PLA is 9 nautical miles away in the closest spot.


Update: Reuters: Taiwan's Ministry of Defense: China's maneuvers have reached the point of blocking Taiwan's air and sea space.

i am glad they haven't done anything stupid and emotional and irrational... they need to decide a suitable countermeasure and implement it... making it clear that this is a consequence of Pelosis actions.

The Xi express. Hopefully he can join Putin soon for some of that ice cream. Remissness about the biggest bluffs in their political careers. It sure ain't easy.

Keep stirring the pot AC... I doubt he cares.

Getting the locals riled up might be entertaining but I see what you are doing... your place here is not guaranteed.

The technical term is flame baiting...

It got the west the war it wanted but not the overthrow of Putin they were expecting and now they don't know what to do.

But I don't expect you to learn... western people are pretty dumb.

China can play the sanctions card with Taiwan and it will hurt Taiwan but it will be fuel for those in the separatist camp and it won't break them. These matters are extremely simple, almost always.

Are you trying to say sanctions and regime change don't work... you will be exiled from the team if you don't delete that right away... can you hear the black helicopters hovering outside your window????

Of course not... they are in whisper mode you fool...

Attacking Taiwan or Pelosi's plane is rather stupid. Just
because some smelly old bag took a flight to a disputed territory is not a basis for war or terrorism.

Perhaps personal sanctions on her and the companies she owns or has any shares in might be a better tactic... sanctions don't work on Russia because it makes them more independent, but making pelosi persona non grata so any company that hires her or she has shares in or interests in is banned from all relations with China will hurt her and scare the brown stuff out of everyone in the west thinking this might be some easy points to get against a soft target.

The U.S doesn't have to do anything stupid other than continue to prop up and assist those willing to fight for them.

I hope harder than they are fighting for Kiev or the Afghans because the support has been pretty weak so far.

The best army, navy and airforce money can buy is a proxy army of your enemy's own.

Except in this case the west is paying Russia to destroy Kiev with energy money and the result will be a serious defeat for HATO and the US who pledged to be on their side... until they lose... and then they will be asking Russia for all the money Kiev owes them and Putin will tell them to go **** themselves.

They see a clear vulnerability and weakness and they competently do not let it go, instead they work on exposing it and using it to cause maximum pain. Everything else is for suckers as is the second guessing that rules the capitals of their enemies.

The payoff is a stronger independent Russia and China fighting the place that makes the worlds computer chips... yeah... I can see the west winning hands down everywhere in that shit fight.

I don't think open warfare with China and Taiwan will happen, but then I didn't think Russia would invade the Ukraine... but how was I to know the US is so stupid as to give Putin no choice... well we are talking about the same US government who created the fuckup that is Kiev, so maybe it will happen...

The core problem for the US is that guarantees given so far will likely start to cost them big and important parts of their navy in this coming conflict... when US carriers start sinking how much backbone will the US have for war then?

Other wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and Syria and Libya have had minimal direct impact on the US except making the MIC fabulously rich of course.

A war over Taiwan is something else.

If China really had the balls it could take Taiwan without any doubt, regardless if they roll over it

I blame western culture really... calling Xi a pussy because he does not want to invade a country and murder hundreds of thousands of people because some ugly old visited them?

Western people think war is a game and a good first option... perhaps a real war that actually effects them is what they really need... Some Chinese ballistic missile strikes on all the chip making companies in Taiwan might start to make them realise a cost of war...

People laugh at Russia not making all their own electronics but how hard will they laugh when no one has the high tech expensive stuff any more...

The U.S should of course not aggravate tensions, tuck itself away, keep to its business only to Latin America and slide away into irrelevance, leaving its strategic rivals to grow unimpeded... how cute of him. Russian and Chinese propaganda do coincide in that line greatly.

Yeah, you are not paying attention... the whole idea for the future is a multipolar world... the US is going to be a pole and have international relations with other poles... it will be a good question as to whether the US pole includes all of the west and still under US control... I would expect so because they are all pussies, but that is OK... if they don't want independence and free thought they can remain Americas bitches.

The only group trying to isolate and contain is the US.

@Garry
Yes but Putin took Crimea

Putin took nothing... read the posts of Auslander... the people of Crimea saw what was happening and they took the Crimea for themselves and invited Russia to expand the troops they already had legally based on the peninsula already to "keep the already existing peace" while referendums were run and processed...

Weren't you the one saying how tough and decisive China was awhile back ?

And how weak Putin was...

When you drink your own Kool aide you start to believe anything like AC and the pro western asshats that believe the US when it tells them sparkling champaign is supposed to be warm and yellow and bubbly and coming straight from their dick... keep drinking that kool aid...

Well, by now they did not get what they wanted, so they will reinforce the humiliation card, with the vicious English establishment following suit. Surprising not...

The cowardly British following suit will be immensely amusing... after leaving the EU they lost direct access to a huge market and they want to now humiliate 1.3 billion Chinese... I know the west is stupid... but do they really think the result is China backing down completely and falling in to western line condemning Russia and imposing sanctions on them?

Fair point. The Saker has a point too. But this is sorta how the game is played. Can't wait to see what Paul Craig Roberts says

It is the way the west plays, but Russia and China are rejecting that and rejecting the west.... lets see how smart the west is and how they can adapt to being the isolated ones...

For all we know pelosi will be shot down when she leaves. And it will be the CIA who does it.

A drone with a bomb in it could get her at any time from now on...

Lol what? Don't hallucinate. Although I don't think that's even going to help you.

I seem to remember you saying Xi knew what he was doing compared to the weak Putin... but you edit your posts so many times who can be sure...

Second, just like Russia many times in the past, the Chinese drew a red line and then let the US cross it. Being the narcissistic civilization that it is, the West only saw this as a sign of “weakness”, “indecisiveness” or even “naivete”. What these folks fail to even think about is this: how do you feel most Chinese will react both to the visit and to the lack of Chinese reaction (so far!)? They will get mad and express their frustrations. Now look at it from the Chinese government’s point of view, rather then spending billions on anti-US propaganda they, instead, let the US humiliate China and thereby solidifying the Chinese population for the day when the real confrontation will take place.

It would have been hard for Putin to create anti western feeling in Russia even 10 years ago, but western actions have not only made it easy... they have done it for him...

[Sidebar: there is a direct connection between years of Kremlin’s rather weak and mostly verbal protests and the “sudden” appearance of the Russian ultimatum to the West followed by the SMO: the Kremlin literally “cooked” its own public opinion to the point were IT *demanded* strong action. Far from alienating or frightening most Russians, the SMO came as a huge relief to them: “we are FINALLY putting the foot down and taking real action”. That would not have been possible before 2018. Those in the West who saw Putin’s “indecisiveness” simply don’t understand the Russian mindset anymore than they understand the Chinese one. Simply put: you cannot prepare for war without preparing your own population for it! That is what Tom Clancy does to the brains of those reading him]

And more importantly most of the people in the west who experienced war were soldiers or mercs and did so of their own choices and decisions... Russia remembers WWII better than most but they also remember Chechnia and the various little conflicts in the former Soviet Union that the west fed fuel and oxygen to... Russians have a better understanding of war than anyone in the west.... so it is never the first option... the first solution.

China's getting murdered on Twitter and Telegram

All seriousness though this will cause other US puppets to become more lippy with them and the Solomon Islands to swear off the Chinese base plans perhaps

The slap of reality that the US and the west is not your friend.

And regarding that image I only see one big tit there.

But Russia did do something. This allowed them to stop NS2 and essentially ostracize Russia from the west. It was the best of terrible choices but in spite of some problems and major setbacks Russia is not just hanging in there but is still standing. The west is unnerved that the nuclear sanctions packages didnt do what they hoped, but they still stopped a western european and russian relationship around commerce and brought Europe to heel under the Anglo boot.

It was the only choice left to them and ironically the right choice for the future of Russia and ironically the west.

This current set up with the US dictating to the west its culture and ethics is ruining most western countries with no accountability... the US is destroying the west and in its current form that is a good thing because it needs to be broken up and formed together on better foundations.

In comparison the US interference in China/Taiwan situation is really dangerous and might separate the west from its production foundary... when China starts sinking US carriers things are going to seriously escalate... the US might start sinking Chinese ships before then using their SSNs, and if China starts sinking those... well... it really will be rather more than the US can chew let alone swallow.

It certainly isnt going all their way tho. The insane ideologues, neolibs and neocons and their deconstruction and renovation of the west under full domination is starting to crack

Their mantra is that everyone is equal... all taboos are gone... soon child molesters wont be criminals they will be victims of society and its restrictive rules... I mean if a 5 year old boy can choose to be a girl then he should also be allowed to go on a date with his scout master right????

They support Nazis in the Ukraine... where else do they tolerate them?

That our republics have been hijacked by rootless cosmopolitans and power brokers that have their wealth overseas, get their policy overseas and see us not as American citizens but consumers in one of many economic zones. Makes me sick

There is a card game called bullshit... where you bid just like in many other games, the difference is that you have to keep bidding... you have to make a bid and so eventually you are going to bid more than your hand or the hand of your partners could match... that is the game the west is playing... escalation until it breaks and then they hope they get a better hand next time. Iraq... get rid of Saddam... don't know who might replace him... get rid of Gadaffi in Libya... chaos there, get rid of Assad... failed with that one... get rid of Irans leader... failed again... get rid of Putin... failed badly...

Maybe what Russia and China should do is follow the money in US politics and sanction those people and all their companies... would be funny.

It is too early to assume that China will do nothing. Twatter does not decide what retaliation looks like and what
time frame it occurs on.

I think blacklisting Pelosi and any company she owns or has shares in would be interesting... hitting her financially might remind her where her income comes from...

The more time the U.S has on their hand to strengthen this nexus, the more time Japan has to rearm, the worse the options for China, and the greater the risk of miscalculations from both sides.

I disagree... HATO did nothing in Ukraine because it was not obliged to and all these AUKUS and other bullshit orgs the US is putting together to buy US weapons and equipment wont be obliged to defend Taiwan either and will likely rather stay out of any conflict that starts.

TAIWAN ECONOMY MINISTRY: NATURAL GAS INVENTORY AT 10-11 DAYS, CRUDE OIL AT 146 DAYS, COAL AT 39 DAYS

ATLASCUB wrote:

Time is on China's side economically and militarily speaking..

In the light of the recent (December 2021) Chinese real estate crash, the extreme real estate economy, the (localized) bankruns last months and the lack of liquidity of a large number of Chinese banks (involved in the scammy real estate projects - over lending to said real estate projects in violation of the law), this whole 'China numba wan you can't do anything about it' shtick needs re-assessments.

Because quite frankly, from an outsider perspective the Chinese economy looks like shit, and even worse, it's getting grotesquely mismanaged.

Chinese banks currently have at least 13 trillion USD outstanding loans to commoners who've managed to 'buy/lease' an apartment that is yet to be build - with many real estate companies bust and the banks low on liquidity.

That's a proper shitshow. And let's not even go to the Chinese 'epidemic control' which consists of ritually suiciding the economy in favor of keeping Covid1984 (common cold virus) on or near zero. It's estimated that they have spent 4+ trillion USD on testing kits alone (acquaintances in Beijing told me that in 2.5 years they've done 300+ tests), never mind the destroyed supply changes, manufacturing and trading potential

Before the CCP's massive loss of face yesterday I was under the impression that the Changs would borrow a page out of the USA's book and start a war to distract attention from domestic problems (and royally screw over the millions of investors under some equivalent of a War Powers Act)

China is not on a trayectory to takeover economically, not anymore.