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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    navyfield
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    Post  navyfield Sat May 24, 2014 1:22 pm

    lukashenko is a stubborn guy and he supports small countries territorial integrity and souvereignity at any cost ,thats why hes against all of this...its a matter of principle even when russia is doing it.
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    Post  flamming_python Sat May 24, 2014 1:25 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Luka wants to step up in the role of a mediator between Russia and the Ukraine. Hence all his diplomatic efforts, meeting with Turchinov, etc...

    OK, a simple question: Seps think that batka is in bed with junta, yes or no?

    NO

    Seps are hardly the paragon of political analysis and thought, let's be real.

    Batka has been in power in Belarus since the 90s. Despite the hardest hitting Western pressure, and even frequent disputes in Russia; nor one nor the other has come even close to dislodging him.

    Yanuk managed to get overthrown before he even took power and now this time get overthrown again before the end of even his first term by something that started out as just a small protest of some tent-hippies and kids gathering at night-time.
    He's an incompetent who made every wrong decision he possibly could and certainly among those decisions was how he attempted to balance on two chairs at once, and angle between Russia and the West for the best deal, meander this and that way, never take a firm decision and just in general piss everybody off.
    West is not as patient nor benign as Russia so naturally they took the hardline and just got rid of him by organizing a violent revolution.

    Now Karimov is smart enough to actually try and play off between Russia and the West and still survive albeit he still gets little out of it.

    Batka though is just smarter, he's chosen his side and reaps the benefits every day so don't worry. He's not going to pull off any Yanukovich's.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Sat May 24, 2014 1:34 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  flamming_python Sat May 24, 2014 1:27 pm

    navyfield wrote:lukashenko is a stubborn guy and he supports small countries territorial integrity and souvereignity at any cost ,thats why hes against all of this...its a matter of principle even when russia is doing it.

    Also true.

    Wouldn't be surprised if he's against Russia taking the Crimea too. Wouldn't be surprised if Nazarbayev is against it.
    But they're on Russia's side at the end of the day - where else would they go?
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    Post  etaepsilonk Sat May 24, 2014 1:49 pm

    to fp:

    "NO"

    Really? I thought seps would be pretty upset about batka openly declaring their referendum illegal.
    And since you mentioned his appearant attempt to raise himself as mediator, such remarks would be pretty damaging for that noble goal, don't you think so?
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    Post  etaepsilonk Sat May 24, 2014 1:56 pm

    Kinda offtopic:

    "Batka though is just smarter, he's chosen his side and reaps the benefits every day so don't worry."

    But is this really a right way to reap fruits, by constantly breaking promises?

    And again, is ensuring political stability by building all the power around yourself really that healthy for BY institutions? I mean, batka won't live forever, so who'll eventually replace him, considering that many other politicians look pretty spineless?



    "But they're on Russia's side at the end of the day - where else would they go?"

    You know, history sometimes tends to repeat itself, often pretty unexpectedly:
    "But the chinese are on Soviet union's side at the end of the day - where else would they go?"

    See what I just did?  Wink 



    Last edited by etaepsilonk on Sat May 24, 2014 2:18 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    Post  Regular Sat May 24, 2014 1:57 pm

    Let's be honest. Belarus is as much relevant as Poland.
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    Post  etaepsilonk Sat May 24, 2014 2:09 pm

    Regular wrote:Let's be honest. Belarus is as much relevant as Poland.
    Poland is game to you?!
     Wink 
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 24 Empty The Situation in the Urkaine.

    Post  AirCargo Sun May 25, 2014 12:24 am

    Los Angeles Times

    Pro-Russia gunmen are blocking polls for 10% of Ukrainian voters

    By Carol J. Williams 11:42 AM|Reporting from Kiev, Ukraine

    Ukraine’s election authorities said Saturday that they are unable to operate polling places for Sunday’s presidential election in areas representing about 10% of the population and that separatist threats against anyone trying to cast ballots in the violence-plagued east could further deter turnout.

    Pro-Russia militants who hold key government buildings and broadcast facilities in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions also appeared to have tightened their grip on the dozen or so communities they control at gunpoint, according to government officials and international security monitors.

    Ukrainians go to the polls to choose from among 21 contenders for a head of state to succeed President Viktor Yanukovich, who was ousted in February after a three-month rebellion over his decision to scrap closer ties to the European Union in favor of continued economic integration with Russia.

    Yanukovich, a Kremlin ally, has taken refuge in Russia and is accused by Kiev’s interim authorities and their Western backers of helping foment the pro-Russia aggression that resulted in the seizure and annexation of Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula and has allowed armed separatists to take control of the largely Russian-speaking eastern regions.

    Polls show billionaire “Chocolate King” Petro Poroshenko with a huge lead over his nearest competitor, former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko. More than 40% of those surveyed say they will vote for Poroshenko, with Tymoshenko drawing around 6%, about the same as Sergei Tihipko, who advocates stronger rights for Ukraine’s Russian-speaking minority. If no candidate gets more than 50% of the vote, a runoff would be scheduled for June 15 between the two top vote-getters.

    Acting Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk made a televised appeal for maximum voter turnout on Sunday and sought to assure those unable to cast ballots in the separatist-occupied areas that their isolation would end soon.

    “I want to assure our fellow countrymen from the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, who will not be able to vote because of the war, that criminals won’t terrorize your land for long,” Yatsenyuk said, blaming Russia for instigating the violence.

    Early Saturday, Interior Ministry public security chief Volodymyr Hrinyak told the Interfax news agency that half of the two regions’ 34 polling places would be open for voters on Sunday. But hours later the head of the Voters Committee of Ukraine, Oleksandr Chernenko, conceded that separatists had overrun as many as 10 more on the eve of the election, predicting that only seven to nine polls would be operating for the two regions with a combined population of 6.5 million, or 15% of the country’s population since the loss of Crimea.

    Monitors of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe also reported a significant fall-off in peaceful protest actions against the separatists organized by mining and steel magnate Rinat Akhmetov, who had drawn hundreds of drivers into noon horn-honking demonstrations in Donetsk over the last week. OSCE said in its Saturday report that only a single driver took part in the protest on Friday.

    In Mariupol, where Akhmetov’s steelworkers joined police patrols last week to deter the spread of militant control in the port city, election organizers were unable to set up voting places because of threats of attacks by the gunmen who have apparently retaken control of the city.

    OSCE said that factory whistles and ships’ sirens wailed in the city as part of the protests organized by Akhmetov, whose enterprises employ 300,000 people, but that there was no sign of the magnate’s Metinvest employees patrolling the streets.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 24 Empty The Situation in the Ukraine.

    Post  AirCargo Sun May 25, 2014 12:37 am

    Kyiv Post

    Despite security issues in the East, elections still to be recognized, observers say

    May 24, 2014, 8:49 p.m. | Ukraine — by Daryna Shevchenko
     
    Even though presidential elections in Eastern Ukraine might not take place in the majority of constituencies due to multiple security threats according to watchdogs, foreign observers say there is no risk that the overall poll will be called illegitimate.

    On May 25 Ukraine will hold its early presidential elections and elections to local councils in some cities including Ukraine’s capital Kyiv. And though the preparation for the election day goes well at 95 percent of the country’s polling stations the vote might be disrupted in Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts where the confrontation between pro-Russian armed groups and Ukrainian military forces have been continuous for several months.

    Oleksandr Chernenko, the head of Ukraine’s Committee of Voters says numerous members of local election commissions in Donetsk and Luhansk oblast just resigned. “Everyone understands that holding elections in many districts there is dangerous for life of local residents,” he said to Channel 5 on May 24. “I know that in many places local authorities have made a decision to give up on the elections,” he added.

    The head of Central Electtion Commission Mykhailo Okhendovskyi confirms -  the vote can be organized only in two districts in whole Luhansk oblast. How many polling stations will be able to open tomorrow morning in Donetsk Oblast will be clear only early on May 25, Ukrainian News reported.

    Despite the grim situation at the country’s two easternmost oblasts secretary general of Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe parliamentary assembly Spencer Oliver assured that Ukrainian elections will be recognized legitimate “as the expression of the will of the majority of people.”

    Oliver also added that OSCE has its long term observers in the country’s east that collect information for a mission. “We fully understand that voting might be dangerous for some people, but do hope it is possible to predict and prevent the threats,” he said.

    Meanwhile there are no good news from official sources in the East. Even though the preparation for the election date continues and over three thousand police officers are going to guard polling stations in Donetsk oblast on May 25, “the situation in the area keeps deteriorating and the confrontation between the representatives of so called Donbass People’s Republic and Ukrainian military formations have intensified,” the statement on the Donetsk Regional Administration official website reads.

    According to General Prosecutors Office 83 criminal investigations have been launched on charges for obstructing election process in Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts.

    The statement of Donetsk Regional Administration specifies the crimes.

    City council building in Krasnyi Lyman is controlled by armed people, the register of voters sealed. In Zugres, Donetsk Oblast, the representatives of so called Dontesk People’s Republic have smashed local polling stations and beaten up local election commission members. The work of several district election commissions has been suspended in Donetsk, commission members have been intimidated.

    Though the list contains dozens of such crime examples Donetsk Oblast Governor Serhiy Taruta still calls on people to come and vote on May 25. “I call on people of the region to ignore provocations, believe only official sources and fulfill your duties as citizens, come and vote on May 25, at least at those polling stations that will be open tomorrow,” his statement on regional website reads. Taruta also condemned the activities of Donetsk People’s republic representatives in the region and ensured for him “people’s life is the main value.”
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Sun May 25, 2014 4:20 am

    AirCargo wrote:Los Angeles Times

    Pro-Russia gunmen are blocking polls for 10% of Ukrainian voters

    By Carol J. Williams 11:42 AM|Reporting from Kiev, Ukraine

    Ukraine’s election authorities said Saturday that they are unable to operate polling places for Sunday’s presidential election in areas representing about 10% of the population and that separatist threats against anyone trying to cast ballots in the violence-plagued east could further deter turnout.

    Pro-Russia militants who hold key government buildings and broadcast facilities in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions also appeared to have tightened their grip on the dozen or so communities they control at gunpoint, according to government officials and international security monitors.

    Ukrainians go to the polls to choose from among 21 contenders for a head of state to succeed President Viktor Yanukovich, who was ousted in February after a three-month rebellion over his decision to scrap closer ties to the European Union in favor of continued economic integration with Russia.

    Yanukovich, a Kremlin ally, has taken refuge in Russia and is accused by Kiev’s interim authorities and their Western backers of helping foment the pro-Russia aggression that resulted in the seizure and annexation of Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula and has allowed armed separatists to take control of the largely Russian-speaking eastern regions.

    Polls show billionaire “Chocolate King” Petro Poroshenko with a huge lead over his nearest competitor, former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko. More than 40% of those surveyed say they will vote for Poroshenko, with Tymoshenko drawing around 6%, about the same as Sergei Tihipko, who advocates stronger rights for Ukraine’s Russian-speaking minority. If no candidate gets more than 50% of the vote, a runoff would be scheduled for June 15 between the two top vote-getters.

    Acting Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk made a televised appeal for maximum voter turnout on Sunday and sought to assure those unable to cast ballots in the separatist-occupied areas that their isolation would end soon.

    “I want to assure our fellow countrymen from the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, who will not be able to vote because of the war, that criminals won’t terrorize your land for long,” Yatsenyuk said, blaming Russia for instigating the violence.

    Early Saturday, Interior Ministry public security chief Volodymyr Hrinyak told the Interfax news agency that half of the two regions’ 34 polling places would be open for voters on Sunday. But hours later the head of the Voters Committee of Ukraine, Oleksandr Chernenko, conceded that separatists had overrun as many as 10 more on the eve of the election, predicting that only seven to nine polls would be operating for the two regions with a combined population of 6.5 million, or 15% of the country’s population since the loss of Crimea.

    Monitors of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe also reported a significant fall-off in peaceful protest actions against the separatists organized by mining and steel magnate Rinat Akhmetov, who had drawn hundreds of drivers into noon horn-honking demonstrations in Donetsk over the last week. OSCE said in its Saturday report that only a single driver took part in the protest on Friday.

    In Mariupol, where Akhmetov’s steelworkers joined police patrols last week to deter the spread of militant control in the port city, election organizers were unable to set up voting places because of threats of attacks by the gunmen who have apparently retaken control of the city.

    OSCE said that factory whistles and ships’ sirens wailed in the city as part of the protests organized by Akhmetov, whose enterprises employ 300,000 people, but that there was no sign of the magnate’s Metinvest employees patrolling the streets.

    Congratulations. I already lost my negative for today and it is 10:00 A.M. in the morning  Razz 
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    Post  GarryB Sun May 25, 2014 5:26 am

    Congratulations. I already lost my negative for today and it is 10:00 A.M. in the morning

    Not very fair shooting the messenger... especially before you find out how the messenger feels about the message.
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    Post  arpakola Sun May 25, 2014 6:06 am



    Last edited by arpakola on Sun May 25, 2014 8:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  arpakola Sun May 25, 2014 8:13 am


    Odessa voting, ballots already in urns when station opened, urns are not sealed.
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    Post  Intrigado Sun May 25, 2014 2:31 pm

    It looks like Poroshenko is going to win Ukraine's presidency. I wouldn't trust much the relevance of this vote: when you have to choose between Timoshenko and Poroshenko, what would you do? Choose the lesser evil, of course.

    By the way, where does that man sell his chocolate? We're their southern neighbors and I never heard of his chocolate brand, let alone taste it. If he intends to get his chocolate on the EU market, I can tell him that he has no chance of success. If he loses the ex-Soviet market, he's going to go bankrupt.
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    Post  sepheronx Sun May 25, 2014 5:05 pm

    Intrigado wrote:It looks like Poroshenko is going to win Ukraine's presidency. I wouldn't trust much the relevance of this vote: when you have to choose between Timoshenko and Poroshenko, what would you do? Choose the lesser evil, of course.

    By the way, where does that man sell his chocolate? We're their southern neighbors and I never heard of his chocolate brand, let alone taste it. If he intends to get his chocolate on the EU market, I can tell him that he has no chance of success. If he loses the ex-Soviet market, he's going to go bankrupt.

    His company will, not him. He will just steal from the state like all others before him.
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    Post  arpakola Sun May 25, 2014 5:12 pm

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 24 W4aq4nqxagzs
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 24 Kautpgifh4mp
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 24 Ma5x1brspgjo
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 24 Zaugivuv4jco
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 24 Fu2mumzjzpky

    ..................Batallion Vostok today in Donetsk

    .........

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 24 Bod08BCIUAETPCe
    Madam ordans :-) observing the elections


    And here many years ago kissing an other Balkan democrat .....  thachi
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 24 Koss05

    By the way ... http://garizo.blogspot.gr/2009/04/house-of-horrors-serbians-kidnapped-for.html
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    Post  arpakola Sun May 25, 2014 5:59 pm





    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 24 Ndry5c5j
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 24 Ndry5c5j

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 24 N8hvdgj
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    Post  Regular Sun May 25, 2014 6:33 pm

    Haha I don't envy Ukrainian troops. Vostok looks tough. Esp those Chechen dudes
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Sun May 25, 2014 7:16 pm

    arpakola wrote:
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 24 Bod08BCIUAETPCe
    Madam ordans :-) observing the elections


    And here many years ago kissing an other Balkan democrat .....  thachi
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 24 Koss05

    By the way ... http://garizo.blogspot.gr/2009/04/house-of-horrors-serbians-kidnapped-for.html


    For one I will always be against Putin into this. That he is tolerant and accept as a rightful reality every mistreat Americans put against us.
    I do understand that takes time, I do understand that the slow approach might be the most effective but if I was the boss I would send my fing spetsnaz
    to catch this bitch and impale here in Red Square and I don't give a damn how paranoid might be the Yankees after this, and if needed I would had gone to the very end.
    No warmonger, but I certainly don't accept to chicken out against this subhumans, if the duty is for a war against americunts or turks I am ready every day every moment
    no matter the result.
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    Post  macedonian Mon May 26, 2014 2:04 am

    Hannibal Barca wrote:For one I will always be against Putin into this. That he is tolerant and accept as a rightful reality every mistreat Americans put against us.
    I do understand that takes time, I do understand that the slow approach might be the most effective but if I was the boss I would send my fing spetsnaz
    to catch this bitch and impale here in Red Square and I don't give a damn how paranoid might be the Yankees after this, and if needed I would had gone to the very end.
    No warmonger, but I certainly don't accept to chicken out against this subhumans, if the duty is for a war against americunts or turks I am ready every day every moment
    no matter the result.

    It's funny, but this was planned by KOS, the Yugoslav (and later Serbian) counterintelligence service.
    Not sure about if Olbright was in their cross-hairs, but there was an ex-assassin that worked for them, claiming that Milosevic sent him to snipe-out George Soros while on holiday in Spain or France...can't remember where exactly at the moment. Was called off at the last minute. And what a pity that it was, eh?

    Hope someone else gets a similar idea, and the cojones to go through with it...and we start reading the news about systematic wipe-out of these moneychangers/neocons. Wouldn't that bring a smile on the majority of this earth citizens' faces...Americans included.
    I think in this hypothetical scenario, we'll see many of the wars ending in a matter of days (if not hours).
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Mon May 26, 2014 2:53 am

    macedonian wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:For one I will always be against Putin into this. That he is tolerant and accept as a rightful reality every mistreat Americans put against us.
    I do understand that takes time, I do understand that the slow approach might be the most effective but if I was the boss I would send my fing spetsnaz
    to catch this bitch and impale here in Red Square and I don't give a damn how paranoid might be the Yankees after this, and if needed I would had gone to the very end.
    No warmonger, but I certainly don't accept to chicken out against this subhumans, if the duty is for a war against americunts or turks I am ready every day every moment
    no matter the result.

    It's funny, but this was planned by KOS, the Yugoslav (and later Serbian) counterintelligence service.
    Not sure about if Olbright was in their cross-hairs, but there was an ex-assassin that worked for them, claiming that Milosevic sent him to snipe-out George Soros while on holiday in Spain or France...can't remember where exactly at the moment. Was called off at the last minute. And what a pity that it was, eh?

    Hope someone else gets a similar idea, and the cojones to go through with it...and we start reading the news about systematic wipe-out of these moneychangers/neocons. Wouldn't that bring a smile on the majority of this earth citizens' faces...Americans included.
    I think in this hypothetical scenario, we'll see many of the wars ending in a matter of days (if not hours).


    You have to treat people for what they are no matter how rich or famous or powerful or beautiful or whatever they are. This is my values.
    World beater criminals of war and assassins of nations should be treated accordingly no matter who is behind them.
    This is why I support the spread of weapons of mass destruction actually, to be able to carry on with your values being untouchable from the dark powers.
    So far, for those having nuclear weapons, this works like charm. The rest "play" with "spontaneous" colorful revolutions way too often  Laughing
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Mon May 26, 2014 4:04 am

    Donetsk international airport suspends flight services

    DONETSK, 26/05/14. /ITAR-TASS/Konstantin Sazonchik. The international airport of Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, has suspended flight services. The announcement to this effect is posted at the official website of the air harbor.

    “The Donetsk airport suspends flight services from 7 am. It will be stated in addition if the airport resumes its operations,” the announcement reads.

    No reasons for airport suspension are reported.

    Earlier it was reported that martial law was introduced in the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR).

    "Martial law is introduced in the territory of the DPR. The main purpose is to clear the Republic's territory of Ukrainian military units", Denis Pushilin, chairman of the presidium of the DPR Supreme Council explained.

    He pointed out that the DPR's dialogue with the authorities in Kiev "is possible only with intermediaries' participation". "We are ready to discuss matters relating to an exchange of hostages and a withdrawal of Ukrainian troops from the DPR's territory," Pushilin added.

    Any other news, other than the obvious stuff?
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Mon May 26, 2014 4:15 am

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 24 MbC3pgl
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    Post  arpakola Mon May 26, 2014 6:13 am





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    Post  Vann7 Mon May 26, 2014 6:26 am

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    He pointed out that the DPR's dialogue with the authorities in Kiev "is possible only with intermediaries' participation". "We are ready to discuss matters relating to an exchange of hostages and a withdrawal of Ukrainian troops from the DPR's territory," Pushilin added.

    Any other news, other than the obvious stuff?[/quote]

    It seems that Poroshenko difference now is that will will use smarter talking ,and made it look he negotiate and talk with people
    in The east.. Just a week ago..the parliament voted for the ending of Ukrainian military Operations in the east.. Have any army moved
    after the parliament vote? NO.. it was all just sweet talking.. for later the European Union to cheer them in their media.. is all propaganda talk of peace ,while killing people on practice with the army.  He for example is calling for Local elections in the east to elect a Governor.. all sounds good.. but is a trap. Because that will mean to break their newly created republic to recognize Kiev Authorities as legitimate. SO he wants the Donetsk republic to disband their organization in order to welcome his proposed local elections and elect a Governor..  But for that..such elections to happen they need to disarm first.. LOL Laughing   Fool me one and shame on you.. fool me twice and shame on me...  The guy will try to create division in eastern Ukraine with his money.. like offering jobs and things like that.. and already he is talking of a more efficient Combat operations in eastern Ukraine..  Crazy enough he is talking about the recovery of Crimea ,using "primary" legal ways.. something that he knows he will have not a chance.. But still say it.. so that the Neonazis feel he is doing something .  
    I really don't know how this will end.. looks like many more lives will be lost.. because the new President support the army operations
    but now he talks now of better weapons.. My best guess is NATO will start arming them with precision artillery and try to isolate the zones
    from the world so they cannot even eat.

    So in summary since a week ago.. the Ukraine authorities are changing their tactics.. of Saying the Right things to get good headlines in the west as a Government who seek dialogue, but doing the opposite. he even claim IS the Donetsk people that do not want dialogue.. If they really wanted dialogue ,they will have allowed Government elections long time ago and support Federalization.. But now that Donetsk is independent.. now he talks about local elections.. The Chocolate King is more like Obama.. a smooth talker but that behind the scenes do totally the opposite . My prediction is Ukraine will disband.. and the war will increase.. it will be a matter of time.. And Donetsk and Lugansk will not be the only zones that will split... Unfortunately kiev have managed to halt the rebellion and focus them to the the DOnetsk and Lugansk zone only..  The lack of people participation and organization is what is killing people in Ukraine.  Had there been hundred of thousands people every weekend in every city in the south and east..from Odessa to Kharkov it will have been impossible for any army or any neo nnazis to enter in any part of the east or south and take control of any place.

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