The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

fair voting (Votes are stacked ....proparly in the balot..!!)

arpakola wrote:

fair voting (Votes are stacked ....proparly in the balot..!!)

LOLOLOLOL   

What the hell..   
The balot have a lock...if you pay attention.. how they stacked them ?  Magic?    
That will be worth of a Scientific Mystery.. LOL  THey don't bother hiding the fraud. lol

In more news.. there is a major fighting in Donetsk Airport.  very cool photos ..

question is what kind of anti tank weapon the Donetsk forces have in this picture?


http://en.itar-tass.com/world/733331

Seems like a major assault on the airport.. about 6 helicopters seen flying with combat jets..



http://rt.com/news/161516-ukraine-airport-clashes-defense/

http://rt.com/news/161516-ukraine-airport-clashes-defense/
Live Donetsk airport >>> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/18018671

question is what kind of anti tank weapon the Donetsk forces have in this picture?

It looks like an RPG-26.

Rip to insurgents.. Judging from videos they are taking heavy losses at the airport.

the anti-Kiev troops in the terminals look properly equipped. good clean uniforms, good maintained weaponry that almost looks fresh out the box. possesing some serious hardware like optics, rockets and grenade launchers.  and in some pictures of them moving around, holding their weapons and "behaving" just reeks of combat experience and training.

and online i saw some deploying AGL's in an high-arc of attack on the airport, propably with intend to engage the MI-24's.








this is not your average joe's in combat fatigue's with an old gun, this is an organised unit. where ever it came from i do not care, im glad that guys of this caliber are to counter Kiev's troops.    

Edit: the rifleman watching trough the scope, its the same i used on my own rifle in the past. its an Eotech Holotech sight with an removable 3.5 magnifier in front of it. ... thats not cheap to come by.   very effective as long your recticle is on your target and its in range you get yourself a hit.

Any confirmation about helicopter shot down today in Donetsk airport? How effective were air attacks? They need proper air defense. BMP-2 and BMD-2 could do some job with 30 mm guns, but they need something more dedicated as MANPDs or AA guns. They need good visual observation network, which could do good job as Ukrainian air force doesn't have night capabilities. it is interesting, that UkrAF doesn't use Su-24 planes. It seems they are not flying capable as they are complicated for maintenance. They use Su-27 and MiG-29 for bomb raids with dumb bombs.

medo wrote:Any confirmation about helicopter shot down today in Donetsk airport? How effective were air attacks? They need proper air defense. BMP-2 and BMD-2 could do some job with 30 mm guns, but they need something more dedicated as MANPDs or AA guns. They need good visual observation network, which could do good job as Ukrainian air force doesn't have night capabilities. it is interesting, that UkrAF doesn't use Su-24 planes. It seems they are not flying capable as they are complicated for maintenance. They use Su-27 and MiG-29 for bomb raids with dumb bombs.

vehicle mounted large calibre guns are not as effective against air threats as you might think. their effect on target is good but the gunners must look trough a magnifying optic of the gun, manually accuire the target, aim ahead of the MI-24 and more or less make sure its rounds cross the estimated/predicted flight path at the same time the helicopter is there. a bullet takes time to arrive at its intended target. it may seem short in terms of seconds, but with aircraft and helicopters doing 250 kilometers an hour easy and above its like trying to hit a sportscar at max speed at the freeway when it wizzes by.

a slow-moving helicopter is a reasonable target, but a MIG or MI-24 at full speed has little chance of being taken down by a chaingun unless its unfortunate enough to make a head-on attack on a vehicle that already accuired the helicopter.

MANPAD's are an effective infantry solution to air-threats, both to fixed wing and rotary aircraft. but not so widely available.

By looking at the videos how Mi-24 operate, they seem to be uncontested  

It is amazing to what an extent Belarus got better deal with Lukashenko than Ukraine with Kravchuk/Kuchma/Yushchenko/Yanukovych/Poroshenko.

Leader of the DNR: self-defence units bring down 2 helicopters of Ukraine’s Armed Forces

MOSCOW, 26/05/14. /ITAR-TASS/Konstantin Sazonchik. People’s militia of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) brought down two helicopters of Ukraine’s Armed Forces in combat operations near the international airport of Donetsk, the chairman of the presidium of the DNR Supreme Council, Denis Pushilin, told Rossiya 24 television on Monday.

“Earlier, the leadership of the republic made the decision to assume control over the airport,” he said. “This was done after Kiev had launched a punitive operation in the southeast of Ukraine and began to increasingly often use the airport for delivering military cargoes as well as manpower for military units and combat formations under its control,” he said.

Overnight to Monday, representatives from the self-proclaimed republic arrived at the airport “demanding the withdrawal from its territory of Ukrainian military guarding the inner perimeter,” he said. After the sides had failed to settle the conflict peacefully, an exchange of fire came that later erupted into a major armed clash.

The Kiev-controlled units made an attempt to restore control over the airport, using helicopters as well as assault aircraft in the operation. The fight for the airport continued throughout the day, after which the people’s militia regained control over the international airport.

If true, this brings the Nazi terrorists' aerial losses to

1 X Mi-24P
1 X Mi-24V
1 X Mi-24, subtype unknown to me
1 X Mi-8MT
1 X Mi-8, subtype unknown to me
2 X helicopters of unknown type

Nice ..lets have a frequently updated list of all helicopter and planes loses..

On a side note ,it was important for the Anti-Kiev forces to pass from the defense to the offense.. and take the battlefield away of the zones
the Ukrainian army are shelling. Artillery will continue to be a pain.. The anti-kiev forces also will need to deploy mines .. and as other told.. have an early monitoring human network of the skies to coordinate better to shot down those combat planes that can cause a lot of damage.

this is not your average joe's in combat fatigue's with an old gun, this is an organised unit. where ever it came from i do not care, im glad that guys of this caliber are to counter Kiev's troops.

The Ukraine has had conscription for some time now, so it is pretty safe to assume the entire adult male population of the rebelling regions knows how to handle a rifle and heavier weapons and that several would even have special forces training...

Equally there is evidence Blackwater has goons fighting for the ilegitimate Kiev Junta... there are plenty of less well publicised private security firms in Russia and elsewhere.

Greece withdraws its F16 fleet from the forecoming NATO drill over Black sea with the code <Thracian Star 2014>

After the announcement of the european parlaiment elections , and the fact that the 1st (SYRIZA) and 3rd party (Golden Dawn) are Pro Russian or almost pro russian.. , Greece has forced from public opinion to withdraw the F16 (already sent) from the NATO drill Thracian Star 2014

arpakola wrote:Greece withdraws its F16 fleet from the forecoming NATO drill over Black sea with the code <Thracian Star 2014>

After the announcement of the european parlaiment elections , and the fact that the 1st (SYRIZA) and 3rd party (Golden Dawn) are Pro Russian or almost pro russian.. , Greece has forced from public opinion to withdraw the F16 (already sent) from the NATO drill Thracian Star 2014

You seriously think that SYRIZA is Russian friendly?..... oh boy you are in for a nasty surprise!
Anyway, I do support the election of SYRIZA on power since after this the door for REAL developments will finally be open...

some one has to honor the hat he wears ...


=======================

Hannibal Barca wrote:

arpakola wrote:Greece withdraws its F16 fleet from the forecoming NATO drill over Black sea with the code <Thracian Star 2014>

After the announcement of the european parlaiment elections , and the fact that the 1st (SYRIZA) and 3rd party (Golden Dawn) are Pro Russian or almost pro russian.. , Greece has forced from public opinion to withdraw the F16 (already sent) from the NATO drill Thracian Star 2014

You seriously think that SYRIZA is Russian friendly?..... oh boy you are in for a nasty surprise!
Anyway, I do support the election of SYRIZA on power since after this the door for REAL developments will finally be open...

They are forced from the majority of their members to be .. or to look like.

Ukraine has a new president. IMO
-either the situation with the separatists must change immediately
-either Putin must finally take drastic measures
-or his subordinates must take the initiative to put him down
A country must support her citizens no matter what the cost, this is the rule no1 in my book.

arpakola wrote:

Hannibal Barca wrote:

arpakola wrote:Greece withdraws its F16 fleet from the forecoming NATO drill over Black sea with the code <Thracian Star 2014>

After the announcement of the european parlaiment elections , and the fact that the 1st (SYRIZA) and 3rd party (Golden Dawn) are Pro Russian or almost pro russian.. , Greece has forced from public opinion to withdraw the F16 (already sent) from the NATO drill Thracian Star 2014

You seriously think that SYRIZA is Russian friendly?..... oh boy you are in for a nasty surprise!
Anyway, I do support the election of SYRIZA on power since after this the door for REAL developments will finally be open...

They are forced from the majority of their members to be .. or to look like.

As you know, the party leader mr. Tsipras will have to apologize to his party members for much more intense and sensitive matters like cooperating with IMF and kneel to Merkel or for allying with ND or the likes that his members or followers will not even mention about Russia, let alone that most of them are long ago westernized ex leftists and pro americans and rich kids and decadent women etc.
Having said this, I still think that he is the unfortunate but necessary immediate step...

Well we can see what happens when there is not enough manpads.
Rebels should ditch trucks too.
Horrific losses to Vostok. Two trucks full of dead bodies. Ffs.

Hannibal Barca wrote:Ukraine has a new president. IMO
-either the situation with the separatists must change immediately
-either Putin must finally take drastic measures
-or his subordinates must take the initiative to put him down
A country must support her citizens no matter what the cost, this is the rule no1 in my book.

arpakola wrote:

Hannibal Barca wrote:

arpakola wrote:Greece withdraws its F16 fleet from the forecoming NATO drill over Black sea with the code <Thracian Star 2014>

After the announcement of the european parlaiment elections , and the fact that the 1st (SYRIZA) and 3rd party (Golden Dawn) are Pro Russian or almost pro russian.. , Greece has forced from public opinion to withdraw the F16 (already sent) from the NATO drill Thracian Star 2014

You seriously think that SYRIZA is Russian friendly?..... oh boy you are in for a nasty surprise!
Anyway, I do support the election of SYRIZA on power since after this the door for REAL developments will finally be open...

They are forced from the majority of their members to be .. or to look like.

As you know, the party leader mr. Tsipras will have to apologize to his party members for much more intense and sensitive matters like cooperating with IMF and kneel to Merkel or for allying with ND or the likes that his members or followers will not even mention about Russia, let alone that most of them are long ago westernized ex leftists and pro americans and rich kids and decadent women etc.
Having said this, I still think that he is the unfortunate but necessary immediate step...

These are not facts .. but asumptions..
U see Greece and Greeks can never be 'westernised" as Greece is the definition of West and Europe.. (but thats a long talk..)
====================================================


Rocket released from the plane

Looks like the Donetsk forces got a very bad day.. They report about 50 of their forces killed and 50 civilians too.
Probably the most violent attack of kiev on Donetsk forces.. The Right Sector apparently killed with a sniper rifle the driver of a truck carrying wounded people and finished the rest wiht a grenade rocket on the truck...

I think the donetsk Forces once told they have about 2,000 soldiers..
I cannot believe a city with 2-3 million citizens can only get such low number of fighters. It goes again and again to the very same
Problem. A problem that i noticed ,when the Euromaidan was attacking police in kiev and burning buildings and yakunovych was in power. The Pro Yakunovych civilians FAT LAZY as hell . They did nothing. Absolutely NOTHING.. to organize and go to kiev to help police to counter the euromaidan protest... And when they siege power.. in February.. it was not until a month later they began to siege buildings..  In Mariupol only 50 grandmas were holding a building.  they could have saved many many lives only if.. they decided to kick their asses and stop being lazy and do something and start a major uprising .  But like one interview i saw.. to one Pro Yakunovych citizens.. he was asked
if he was going to the protest Pro Yakunovych.. he reply..?  ME?  Oh noooo not me.. i have better things to do ,than to go
to a protest.       So thats the problem with eastern and southern regions in Ukraine..  the lack of active participation is abysmal. IF they had taken control for example..
Of Odessa <Mariupol and all Souther Cities. Including Kharkiv.. and deployed Barriers ,just like Donetsk did.. it will have forced the Kiev junta to negotiate.. and give them autonomy.. But no one did anything..  So now Russia is in a difficult position.. that if they invade.. Donetsk or Lugansk. For sure the ukraine army will leave.  But then Russians will start to be killed in other cities by Right Sector.. and in the end Russia will be forced to invade all Ukraine to protect Etnic Russians..  Is not really a good plan.. to invade .as sad at it is..and knowing how many lives will be lost  because It will only provoke more violence against Russians in *Other cities.*
So Russia to protect civilians will have to end invading all Ukraine ,to do what Ukrainians do not do by themselves,with a huge Army and with many loses in roadside bombs and ambush.

IF  Russia just wait ,a year or two ,and allow Ukrainians to Experience the hard way ,that joining the EU will not automatically turn into
Gold their cities ,and that their economy move from Bad to worse..and that half of the nation is jobless.. then thats when the real revolution will start.. and a Russian invasion will not be needed at all.. Civilians alone in the millions will overthrow their nazi government.

Anyone knows how many Soldiers , The Donetsk and lugansk forces have more or less?  last number i read was about 2,000..  ??

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/48078295

arpakola wrote:

Hannibal Barca wrote:Ukraine has a new president. IMO
-either the situation with the separatists must change immediately
-either Putin must finally take drastic measures
-or his subordinates must take the initiative to put him down
A country must support her citizens no matter what the cost, this is the rule no1 in my book.

arpakola wrote:

Hannibal Barca wrote:

arpakola wrote:Greece withdraws its F16 fleet from the forecoming NATO drill over Black sea with the code <Thracian Star 2014>

After the announcement of the european parlaiment elections , and the fact that the 1st (SYRIZA) and 3rd party (Golden Dawn) are Pro Russian or almost pro russian.. , Greece has forced from public opinion to withdraw the F16 (already sent) from the NATO drill Thracian Star 2014

You seriously think that SYRIZA is Russian friendly?..... oh boy you are in for a nasty surprise!
Anyway, I do support the election of SYRIZA on power since after this the door for REAL developments will finally be open...

They are forced from the majority of their members to be .. or to look like.

As you know, the party leader mr. Tsipras will have to apologize to his party members for much more intense and sensitive matters like cooperating with IMF and kneel to Merkel or for allying with ND or the likes that his members or followers will not even mention about Russia, let alone that most of them are long ago westernized ex leftists and pro americans and rich kids and decadent women etc.
Having said this, I still think that he is the unfortunate but necessary immediate step...

These are not facts .. but asumptions..
U see Greece and Greeks can never be 'westernised" as Greece is the definition of West and Europe.. (but thats a long talk..)
====================================================


Rocket released from the plane

No they are not assumptions they are soon to be confirmed logical conclusions...

No Greece is not the definition of West and Europe. This is stupid Greek fallacy. Western civilization is mostly Roman with few spoils of Greek ideas here and there.
And yeah European democracy (wherever exists since 70% of western Europe is still monarchic...) is developed by roman and not Athenian democracy. FACT!
And Roman democracy developed independently just 50 years after the Athenian. We have to learn true history before understanding what is happening and why.
Greek civilization survived PARTIALLY from the eastern European Christian states, that's it.
Anyway but to Ukraine.

Vann7 wrote:Looks like the Donetsk forces got a very bad day.. They report about 50 of their forces killed and 50 civilians too.
Probably the most violent attack of kiev on Donetsk forces.. The Right Sector apparently killed with a sniper rifle the driver of a truck carrying wounded people and finished the rest wiht a grenade rocket on the truck...

I think the donetsk Forces once told they have about 2,000 soldiers..
I cannot believe a city with 2-3 million citizens can only get such low number of fighters. It goes again and again to the very same
Problem. A problem that i noticed ,when the Euromaidan was attacking police in kiev and burning buildings and yakunovych was in power. The Pro Yakunovych civilians FAT LAZY as hell . They did nothing. Absolutely NOTHING.. to organize and go to kiev to help police to counter the euromaidan protest... And when they siege power.. in February.. it was not until a month later they began to siege buildings..  In Mariupol only 50 grandmas were holding a building.  they could have saved many many lives only if.. they decided to kick their asses and stop being lazy and do something and start a major uprising .  But like one interview i saw.. to one Pro Yakunovych citizens.. he was asked
if he was going to the protest Pro Yakunovych.. he reply..?  ME?  Oh noooo not me.. i have better things to do ,than to go
to a protest.       So thats the problem with eastern and southern regions in Ukraine..  the lack of active participation is abysmal. IF they had taken control for example..
Of Odessa <Mariupol and all Souther Cities. Including Kharkiv.. and deployed Barriers ,just like Donetsk did.. it will have forced the Kiev junta to negotiate.. and give them autonomy.. But no one did anything..  So now Russia is in a difficult position.. that if they invade.. Donetsk or Lugansk. For sure the ukraine army will leave.  But then Russians will start to be killed in other cities by Right Sector.. and in the end Russia will be forced to invade all Ukraine to protect Etnic Russians..  Is not really a good plan.. to invade .as sad at it is..and knowing how many lives will be lost  because It will only provoke more violence against Russians in *Other cities.*
So Russia to protect civilians will have to end invading all Ukraine ,to do what Ukrainians do not do by themselves,with a huge Army and with many loses in roadside bombs and ambush.

IF  Russia just wait ,a year or two ,and allow Ukrainians to Experience the hard way ,that joining the EU will not automatically turn into
Gold their cities ,and that their economy move from Bad to worse..and that half of the nation is jobless.. then thats when the real revolution will start.. and a Russian invasion will not be needed at all.. Civilians alone in the millions will overthrow their nazi government.

Anyone knows how many Soldiers , The Donetsk and lugansk forces have more or less?  last number i read was about 2,000..  ??

Today's morning except the destruction of infrastructure, the Junta has done nothing. The airport is controlled by our militia, in the battles we are winning. Junta retreated, although we didn't use all our strength. Riot police battalion "Vostok" fought and pushed the military Junta. But there're enemy snipers who shot an ambulance car. This was done in order to shoot at those volunteers who will rescue the wounded. The only thing we lack is the weapon for clearance of aircraft and armored vehicles. If we do, we would've chased the Nazis to Kiev. But Ukrainian military received us at hand: when they blow up their warehouses with ammunition, so they aren't inherited. At the pace they have never left the shoot.