The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

Firebird wrote:Either Russia is good at portraying itself as a "victim". Or Putin is on drugs.
My question is, how long is this meant to go on for?

This "world war" would continue for at least another 20 years.

Firebird wrote:The US civil war?

You didn't read my thread "History: Fiction or Science?".

Firebird wrote: Alternatively it could go on the length of Georgia's 8-8-8.

During "888", it took the Russians a long time before they made a move. Please take a note of the inverted commas.

Rebels captured army barracks in Lugansk, the soldiers inside the barracks could leave.
How the rebels are handling and treating those that they capture is exceptional

Western Ukraine...Relatives of drafted soldiers protest against the draft:

Lugansk .. Ukrainians leaving the base (again)





left / captured ?









==============================================

Firebird wrote:
By standing  off, Russia is almost suggesting "we dont have a valid claim here" (even tho the claim is actually overwhelming) Or it makes them look duplicitious, less clean handed in the eyes of uninformed Westerners.
But its beyond that now, Putin should have said to that American cocksucker Obama, "kill our citizens, and we will kill more of yours". It really is a form of outright war against Russia, by America.
And also think about what should become "the Mexican issue" ie Ru supporting Mexicans in the way
the US supported W Ukrs.

Putin is getting scared now. This is not good at all.

I have suspicion that he wants to sell gazprom to John Kerry so that America is happy.

This is clean bull shit .

HOw can Russia pay for Crimea when Crimea was always Russian. These E.U and U.S  and that Dmitri roboshit are putting too much
pressure on Putin so he is acting like a coward.

Russia has gone to the nuts I believe.
They are thinking of payign Ukraine for Crimea and selling gass for 260 usd/bcm are they nuts what bull crap is this..   

I absolutely agree that oligarchs wealth should have been used for buying manpads (IGLA-s) , sniper rifles, old Russian night scopes, munitions,
RPG-29 , THERMOBARIC MUNITIONS, Lump sums payments to chechens , Kornet , Buk-m2 etc.

They must start smuggling in tracked Buk-M2 and RPG-29 thermobaric(500 rounds ) immediately.

Is crazy how many helicopters and combat jets the Ukrainian airforce are losing in so small time.. Not even in Syria such numbers
happens. It looks like they are Rushing to finish the job or that they have some kind of time limit they have to do it.  Also im wondering
How Over powered are manpads , one cheap missile defeat a $12 million USD attack helicopter.  This is the main reason you will NEVER
ever , see Ukraine with full membership in NATO ,same with Georgia. Because USA don't want ,their Apaches to get a very bad negative
image of total failure against Iglas ,specially when the probability of having to face them are very high.  Aside that the probability of a major
direct war with RUssia is very high , And they will not like to be seen as week ,if Russia invade and they do nothing to fight or to stop Russia.  This is why Georgia plead on their knees NATO to accept them as full member.. but all that NATO says is...errmm.. well we can give you a 'association' with NATO . Just so they have an escape exist and not have the obligation to defend Georgia if a major war with Russia start.

arpakola wrote:Lugansk .. Ukrainians leaving the base (again)




==============================================

Hey ..what?

What you mean with Again ? are those the same ukrainian soldiers of a previous incident that were captured ..about 80..
that was reported by RT and their parents intervene to convince them to stop fighting?  You mean they surrendered last week but returned again later to fight and surrender again? Or are this Ukraine soldiers from another base a new group that surrender?

on a side note notice how EVIL and clever is the CIA commanding the war in Ukraine.. they advice kiev to place the teens ,young conscripts to the front line in a military base bordering Russia ,the first ones that will have to fight the Russian army if they invade and used as meat shields ,and use their deaths later to demonize the Russian army.Those ukrainians are not soldiers ,they are high school students that were given a gun and forced to be soldiers overnight. But the American blackwater thugs fight on the last line.They never take too much risk in any war and if they can make others to fight for them and be for them in the front line they do it.

Russia has gone to the nuts I believe. They are thinking of payign Ukraine for Crimea and selling gass for 260 usd/bcm are they nuts what bull crap is this.. No wrote:

Is not in the interest of Russia to have Ukraine as their enemy forever , thats only in the interest of the exceptional US neocon empire and its allies. Think about this.. NATO zionist powers wants Ukraine and Russia to fight to become mortal enemies forever..and give Russia another afganistan and a bonus damage its world image and have a pretext to blackmail the EU to stop trading with Russia and sabotage its economy ,regardless if that damage their allies economy too.  So helping Ukraine with discounts and money to end the Crimea chapter ,
is not bad at all.  To see the US neocons Furious about a genuine process of peace negotiations between Ukraine and Russia and see Victoria Nuland and all the crocks in the Senate Mad as hell and in horror of Ukraine befriending Russia..is worth of every penny.   
Peace between Ukraine and Russia can only significantly Boost both nations economy. IF ever Ukraine and Russia make peace.. it will destroy all western plans to contain Russian and break its relations with the EU.  
However Before Russia give any discount or money for crimea ,it will need to include the end of the War against Donetsk and Lugansk and the Federalization of all Eastern and southern Ukraine. Like Kharkov ,Odessa ,Mariupol . so that Pro Russian cities all have full autonomy and their own security and their own language and Governor that represent them ,with its own Media ,and its own laws ,independent of central kiev.  Such a deal will be worth of every discount and money. The conflict in Ukraine is far from Donetsk and Lugansk.. even if the Anti Kiev fighters hold their regions and independence.. there still will massacres and people torched alive in other cities against Russians.
So negotiating for peace is really on the interest of Russia.  Having to invade Ukraine with tanks in all Russian friendly cities to protect them from nazis will be far more expensive that any discount in gas.

gaurav wrote:

Firebird wrote:
By standing  off, Russia is almost suggesting "we dont have a valid claim here" (even tho the claim is actually overwhelming) Or it makes them look duplicitious, less clean handed in the eyes of uninformed Westerners.
But its beyond that now, Putin should have said to that American cocksucker Obama, "kill our citizens, and we will kill more of yours". It really is a form of outright war against Russia, by America.
And also think about what should become "the Mexican issue" ie Ru supporting Mexicans in the way
the US supported W Ukrs.

I absolutely agree that oligarchs wealth should have been used for buying manpads (IGLA-s) , sniper rifles, old Russian night scopes, munitions,
RPG-29 , THERMOBARIC MUNITIONS, Lump sums payments to chechens , Kornet , Buk-m2 etc.

They must start smuggling in tracked Buk-M2 and RPG-29 thermobaric(500 rounds ) immediately.

No need for smuggling
Russia can enforce a NFZ over Donbass from within its borders using BUK and S300
and now they have all the reason to claim for a NFZ .. to save citizens..

arpakola wrote:

No need for smuggling
Russia can enforce a NFZ over Donbass from within its borders using BUK and S300
and now they have all the reason to claim for a NFZ .. to save citizens..

That is a really hard task for S-300 systems operating from russia to shoot down 120-30meter above ground flying objects like Mi-24/8 and Su-25 over 200km away.

Vann7 wrote:

arpakola wrote:Lugansk .. Ukrainians leaving the base (again)




==============================================

Hey ..what?

What you mean with Again ? are those the same ukrainian soldiers of a previous incident that were captured ..about 80..
that was reported by RT and their parents intervene to convince them to stop fighting?  You mean they surrendered last week but returned again later to fight and surrender again? Or are this Ukraine soldiers from another base a new group that surrender?

on a side note notice how EVIL and clever is the CIA commanding the war in Ukraine.. they advice kiev to place the teens ,young conscripts to the front line in a military base bordering Russia ,the first ones that will have to fight the Russian army if they invade and used as meat shields ,and use their deaths later to demonize the Russian army.Those ukrainians are not soldiers ,they are high school students that were given a gun and forced to be soldiers overnight. But the American special forces blackwater bastards fight on the last line.They never take too much risk in any war and if they can make others to fight for them and be for them in the front line they do it.

Im not sure.. maybe..
but

Pro-Russian armed men walk in an entrance to a border guards base, which they seized, on the outskirts of Luhansk, Ukraine, Wednesday, June 4, 2014.



Pro-Russian armed men examine destroyed rifles at a border guards base, which they seized, on the outskirts of Luhansk, Ukraine, Wednesday, June 4, 2014. Pro-Russian insurgents in eastern Ukraine have taken two government bases in battles around Luhansk, seizing quantities of ammunition and explosives from a border guards post and taking another installation after National Guard forces ran out of ammunition. (AP Photo/Igor Golovniov)

Werewolf wrote:

arpakola wrote:

No need for smuggling
Russia can enforce a NFZ over Donbass from within its borders using BUK and S300
and now they have all the reason to claim for a NFZ .. to save citizens..

That is a really hard task for S-300 systems operating from russia to shoot down 120-30meter above ground flying objects like Mi-24/8 and Su-25 over 200km away.

not the helis.. those can be managed by manpads I guess , Im talking about all kind of SU's because if they start flying 200 - 500 m all the way are  easy target for the ZU's
and is not 200km away .. is 50-60 km at the most.

First images of new BTR-4E taken out of service in Slavyansk







(Note blood!)

the best weapon against high flying jets right now is attentive eyes and ears and a good planespotting camera-
put the mofo on youtube or liveleak.

Can we please keep this forum out of "Newspeech" propaganda methodoligy.

Stop calling them Pro-Russian, because they are in first row Anti-Fascist forces. This term "Pro-Russian" is the western MSM propaganda term to create a perception among viewrs that it is all Russians, they smear everything where the word "Russian" comes to use.

This is a complete blatant propaganda just before the Ukraine coup d'etat by western backed fascists to the West all ukrainians and russians were the same scum, now you see everyhwere propaganda of western hypocrites especially on such butthurt forums like mp.net, for "Securing Ukraine's souvereign integrity" and "You have to kill those russians who are trying to enslave you".

Stop using and falling for the same Newspeech propaganda of the West, call them out what they really are. Because if you are falling for the same terminology you giving them what they want, as soon some uneducated reads on of those posts and sees those propaganda terms he already gets the perception its not Ukrainian genocide against own people but Russian (Nationality) against ukrain (Nationality) while they are all Russian, there is and never will be such thing as Ukrainian ethnicity, that is a western fabrication to divide one folk into hostiles, like they did with baltic states and poland which are today butthurt towards their brothers.

Please Stop using false Propaganda terminology!

arpakola wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

arpakola wrote:

No need for smuggling
Russia can enforce a NFZ over Donbass from within its borders using BUK and S300
and now they have all the reason to claim for a NFZ .. to save citizens..

That is a really hard task for S-300 systems operating from russia to shoot down 120-30meter above ground flying objects like Mi-24/8 and Su-25 over 200km away.

not the helis.. those can be managed by manpads I guess , Im talking about all kind of SU's because if they start flying 200 - 500 m all the way are  easy target for the ZU's
and is not 200km away .. is 50-60 km at the most.

Russia will have not a problem in creating a no fly zone but if they do that ,it will be a direct war with Kiev ,and they could for example retaliate launching cruise missiles at Sochi avenues. Ukraine conflict Is an Neocons economic war against Russia, to try to damage its economy as much as possible but also damage its world image. Why the RIght Sector nazis were last week caught planning to bomb in Crimea.. touristical places ,hotels ..etc.. So Russia needs to be careful about..
1)Sabotage to its tourism and facilities
2)attacks to their military bases in Rostov Don
3)Attacks to Sochi avenues
4) false flag attacks on Ukrainians army , (as was in Kiev maidan snipers) or to Russia main land , using Ukraine territory .
where American Blackwater mercenary terrorist do the Job. Russia need to be careful because US can fire cruise missiles from Ukraine
to Russia and later US get away with the criminal attack for the attack originating in Ukraine.

Vann7 wrote:

arpakola wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

arpakola wrote:

No need for smuggling
Russia can enforce a NFZ over Donbass from within its borders using BUK and S300
and now they have all the reason to claim for a NFZ .. to save citizens..

That is a really hard task for S-300 systems operating from russia to shoot down 120-30meter above ground flying objects like Mi-24/8 and Su-25 over 200km away.

not the helis.. those can be managed by manpads I guess , Im talking about all kind of SU's because if they start flying 200 - 500 m all the way are  easy target for the ZU's
and is not 200km away .. is 50-60 km at the most.

Russia will have not a problem in creating a no fly zone but if they do that ,it will be a direct war with Kiev ,and they could for example retaliate launching cruise missiles at Sochi avenues.  Ukraine conflict Is an Neocons economic war against Russia, to try to damage its economy as much as possible but also damage its world image. Why the RIght Sector nazis were last week caught planning to bomb in Crimea.. touristical places ,hotels ..etc..    So Russia needs to be careful about..
1)Sabotage to its tourism and facilities
2)attacks to their military bases in Rostov Don
3)Attacks to Sochi avenues
4) false flag attacks on Ukrainians army , (as was in Kiev maidan snipers) or to Russia main land , using Ukraine territory .
  where American Blackwater mercenary terrorist do the Job. Russia need to be careful because US can fire cruise missiles from Ukraine
  to Russia and later US get away with the criminal attack for the attack originating in Ukraine.  

 launching cruise missiles at Sochi avenues.

needs a lot of guts for someone to do that.

There is a lot of difference between
1. to protect your civils by imposing a NFZ , without steping in , not even with planes and
2. Steping in

in option 1, there are lot of benifits and no risk. NATO will shout and bark.. but they are doing it anyway. (In the mean time new Russian made landing ship must start building and f.. the Mistral "Hotel"  boat

Pro Russians in control of border control headquarters in Lugansk. Taking down ukranian flag, capturing trucks and ammunition.


=====================

Thanks to all of you for your great inputs.
I will hope again that the days like June 3rd will never come again when
so many people on both sides lost their lives.

Even though CrasnyLyman was beseiged but then  many cities were still in
the hands of rebels.

I would also thanks Arpakola for bringing the video and pics of the situation
and some critical analysis from Vann7.

Macedonian,Firebird, Vann7 are on a roll today.      

And also to Werewolf for his exposure on media propaganda tools.

off topic:

I personally think porno,julia could be assasinated if he goes further than this.

Mhh I still don't understand the policy of Russia.   
What is the main object now? I can't imagine that they will abandon the republics, so at the end they must have a plan at least.

kind reminder ..

Dmitri Ribolovlef makes PARTY in Scorpios / Greece - ΤΟDAY !


I hope Dmitri to enjoy your Party . Four Million euros well spent....

zg18 wrote:First images of new BTR-4E taken out of service in Slavyansk







(Note blood!)

Damaged, not taken out of service.

^ Indeed, mhm one ATGM or RPG hit should be enough for the BTR-4.

Ukrainian Nazis killing unarmed people in Torez (video)

This are operations classic of the CIA hired mercenary thugs.. could be americans blackwater or simply neonazis .
But they don't look like concripts new recruits but proffesionals paramilitary groups ,tall and robust. Could be Mercenaries
hired by NATO to provoke violence between normal ukrainians and eastern Russians. filmed on camera when invade regional building in DOnetskand kill civilians and leave..  Later they celebrate the murder of civilians in facebook of the operation.



http://rusvesna.su/english/1401055043

This will be one of the major goals of the CIA black water mercenaries.. To provoke both sides in a civil war to fight.
They always shows in all revolutions and civil wars that NATO provoke ,like the snipers in Kiev that shoot at both sides.
There is no other explanation ,why would Mercenaries in black suits enter a civilian building ,when there is a war already in Slavyansk
kill civilians ,and later leave and post in Facebook that the mission was successful ?  Normal euromaidans neonazis will not be
targeting such pointless murder attacks on unknown civilians unless they were ordered to do it by someone for specific reasons..
Only reason i see is create more Hate between both sides of the conflict. and fuel the war. That is the main reason Kiev ban all Russian
media ,so they are not exposed of what they doing against the pro independence forces. What you saw there in the video is Blind Terrorism
very Classic CIA operations of Terrorist States of North America.

medo wrote:Damaged, not taken out of service.

"Taken out of service"= "Izbačen iz stroja" , doesn`t mean destroyed but it needs repairs to be used in combat again, for now it`s out of battle.

Ukraine says no humanitarian crisis, no U.N. resolution needed

Reuters wrote:(Reuters) - Ukraine said on Wednesday there is no humanitarian crisis in the country and dismissed a Russian draft resolution to the U.N. Security Council that seeks to create corridors to allow civilians to escape fighting in the east.

Russia circulated a brief draft resolution to the 15-member council on Monday, also calling for an end to violence in southeastern Ukraine, but Western envoys say Ukraine is suffering a political security crisis not a humanitarian crisis.

"We don't find that this resolution is necessary. Why? Because we don't have a humanitarian crisis," Ukraine U.N. Ambassador Yuriy Sergeyev told a news conference at the United Nations. "If there is no humanitarian crisis, no assistance of the kind of provision in the draft resolution is needed."

Ukraine and its Western allies accuse Moscow of fueling a pro-Russian uprising that threatens to break up the former Soviet republic of 46 million people. Russia denies orchestrating the unrest and says Ukraine's attempts to end it by military force are making the situation worse.

In March, Russia seized Crimea and annexed it, a move not recognized internationally.

"The resolution is drafted by a country who just recently annexed a big part of our territory and is supporting the separatists in the east," Sergeyev said. "The resolution is politically motivated."

The United States called the Russian U.N. proposal hypocritical because at the same time armed fighters and weapons were entering Ukraine from Russia and Russian-backed separatists were attacking new targets and holding hostage monitors from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE).

Western council members have said a report is needed from the United Nations on the humanitarian situation in Ukraine before the Russian draft resolution can be considered properly.

Reuters

The effin' hypocrisy!!! Seems, when America has your back, you can afford to kill civilians, lie, steal, and cheat...and still come out clean in western media.
Can't wait for the chickens to come home to roost!