The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

medo wrote:

Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

Nothing to worry about. EU will still need Russian oil and gas, only payment will be different (gold, Ruble, Juan).   

Viktor wrote:

medo wrote:

Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

Nothing to worry about. EU will still need Russian oil and gas, only payment will be different (gold, Ruble, Juan).   

I agree with you. Thing is that US and their lap dogs are trying to influence Russian politics bit by bit over sanction threat. When you see cronolgy of the events than it goes something like this:

1. dont enter Ukraine
2. move troops from border
3. talk to Poroshenko the nazi
4. admit it as a legitime president
5. stop arms and volunteers over the border
6. influence pro-Russian population to submit
7. whats next?

Basically they are asking from Russia to do their job under threat of sanctions. Thats something Russia should never accept and should make appropriate counter-sanctions that would

cause havor in the EU lines.

Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

Basically they are asking from Russia to .... wrote:

Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

etaepsilonk wrote:

Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

I think that Barry's out of touch with reality.

As far as recognition of poroshenko goes, it was not even intended to do otherwise  

arpakola wrote:

etaepsilonk wrote:

Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

I think that Barry's out of touch with reality.

As far as recognition of poroshenko goes, it was not even intended to do otherwise  

actually as the recognition case .. I haven't seen  oficial recognition .. but Vlad said.. I respect the desision of Ukranian people.. wich is a n ot straigh forward recognition ..

etaepsilonk wrote:

arpakola wrote:

etaepsilonk wrote:

Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

I think that Barry's out of touch with reality.

As far as recognition of poroshenko goes, it was not even intended to do otherwise  

actually as the recognition case .. I haven't seen  oficial recognition .. but Vlad said.. I respect the desision of Ukranian people.. wich is a n ot straigh forward recognition ..

Lemmie guess. Putin's fanboy?   


That "respect of the decision" is de facto recognition at least. And considering that Russia did not recognize DNR/LNR, if they won't recognize poroshenko, then there would be no one in ukraine to talk with AT ALL, that would be illogical.

Regular wrote:Note to rebels. Never trust Russia

"Ekonomija u Ukrajini je potpuno riknula, tako mi veli jedan Bjelorus koji ima rodbinu u Ukrajini. KAže tamo ništa skoro više ne radi, država je u općem kaosu I jedino ovaj rat još uvijek zaokuplja pažnju ljudi tako da više misle o tome nego o ekonomiji. Kijevske vlasti čak I da uspostave kkontrolu nad Istokom, tek bi se tada našle u situaciji da nemaju pojma šta da čine I u tome smisklu im ovaj rat I odgovara. Ali ni to neće vječno.

Rusija ne treba da vojno intervenira ne radi sankcija, njih će biti ovako ili onako, nego zato što se postavlja pitanje a šta nakon toga. Amerikanci su pokušali uvući Rusiju u rat I svojevrsni ruski Vijetnam, a sad se sve više sami uvaljuju jer je kijevska hunta nesposobna za bilo šta. Još uvijek imaju jaču vatrenu moć ali ne zadugo.

Pobujenici jačaju iz dana u dan.

Rusija treba sve vojno sposobne izbjeglice lijepo vratiti I predati vlastima Donjecka I Luganska. Amerikanci se već angažiraju sa plaćenicima, sa vojnim savjetnicima, a evo Porošenko već traži I otvorenu vojnu pomoć. Sada treba Amerikancima prirediti ono što su namjeravali Rusiji. A od Ukrajine nema ništa. Definitivno propala I uništena država, još jedna u nizu žrtava američke takozvane geostrategije."

The economy of Ukraine is completely went dead, said to me one Belorussian who has relatives in Ukraine. Says there is nothing about no longer working, the state in the general chaos and only this war still occupies the attention of people to think more about it than about the economy.

And even the Kiev authorities to establish control of the East, only to then found themselves in a situation that they have no idea what to do and that in that sense this war suits.
But even that is not eternal.

Russia does not need to intervene militarily not sanction them would be one way or another, but because the question and what after that. The Americans have tried to draw Russia into the war I sort of Russian, Vietnam, and now all over themselves this distress because of Kiev junta unfit for anything. We still have a stronger firepower but not for long.
Rebels are stronger by the day. Russia should all fit nicely refugees to return and surrender to the authorities Donetsk and Luganska.

Americans are already engaged with mercenaries, with military advisers, and here Porošenko already requested and open military assistance. Now Americans should prepare what they intended to Russia.

And since Ukraine does nothing. Definitely ruined and destroyed the state, another in a series of American victims of the so-called geo-strategy.

etaepsilonk wrote:

Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

I think that Barry's out of touch with reality.

As far as recognition of poroshenko goes, it was not even intended to do otherwise  

etaepsilonk wrote:

arpakola wrote:

etaepsilonk wrote:

Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

I think that Barry's out of touch with reality.

As far as recognition of poroshenko goes, it was not even intended to do otherwise  

actually as the recognition case .. I haven't seen  oficial recognition .. but Vlad said.. I respect the desision of Ukranian people.. wich is a n ot straigh forward recognition ..

Lemmie guess. Putin's fanboy?   


That "respect of the decision" is de facto recognition at least. And considering that Russia did not recognize DNR/LNR, if they won't recognize poroshenko, then there would be no one in ukraine to talk with AT ALL, that would be illogical.

The economy of Ukraine is completely went dead, said to me one Belorussian who has relatives in Ukraine. Says there is nothing about no longer working, the state in the general chaos and only this war still occupies the attention of people to think more about it than about the economy.

And even the Kiev authorities to establish control of the East, only to then found themselves in a situation that they have no idea what to do and that in that sense this war suits.
But even that is not eternal.

Russia does not need to intervene militarily not sanction them would be one way or another, but because the question and what after that. The Americans have tried to draw Russia into the war I sort of Russian, Vietnam, and now all over themselves this distress because of Kiev junta unfit for anything. We still have a stronger firepower but not for long.
Rebels are stronger by the day. Russia should all fit nicely refugees to return and surrender to the authorities Donetsk and Luganska.

Americans are already engaged with mercenaries, with military advisers, and here Porošenko already requested and open military assistance. Now Americans should prepare what they intended to Russia.

And since Ukraine does nothing. Definitely ruined and destroyed the state, another in a series of American victims of the so-called geo-strategy.

The economy of Ukraine is completely went dead, said to me one Belorussian who has relatives in Ukraine. Says there is nothing about no longer working, the state in the general chaos and only this war still occupies the attention of people to think more about it than about the economy.

And even the Kiev authorities to establish control of the East, only to then found themselves in a situation that they have no idea what to do and that in that sense this war suits.
But even that is not eternal.

Russia does not need to intervene militarily not sanction them would be one way or another, but because the question and what after that. The Americans have tried to draw Russia into the war I sort of Russian, Vietnam, and now all over themselves this distress because of Kiev junta unfit for anything. We still have a stronger firepower but not for long.
Rebels are stronger by the day. Russia should all fit nicely refugees to return and surrender to the authorities Donetsk and Luganska.

Americans are already engaged with mercenaries, with military advisers, and here Porošenko already requested and open military assistance. Now Americans should prepare what they intended to Russia.

And since Ukraine does nothing. Definitely ruined and destroyed the state, another in a series of American victims of the so-called geo-strategy.

SomeName wrote:Interesting take on the Russian plans in Ukraine from http://rsdn.ru/forum/flame.politics/...8.flat#5636948

Google translate:

1. Why Russia "saber-rattling" at the beginning of the conflict in the Donbas, and then stopped? Initially, the goal was to settle on the spot and Kiev could promptly stop it all. Therefore, the introduction of Russian troops threatened to the point yet considered that "militia" firmly stuck in place.
2. Development of the conflict should be smooth to look like a natural, that's why serious armed (MANPADS, anti-launchers, mortars) may not appear immediately.
3. Current task - to establish a channel of supply troops Novorossia column will therefore humanitarian aid to the victims of Russia. That's why now speaks of refugees, opened Ukrainian border. By establishing a supply will be a sharp increase in the number of army Novorossia 10-20 thousand fighters.
4. Next problem - wear down Ukraine, as ahead of further collapse hryvnia, a sharp economic downturn. Plus the lack of funds for the normal supply of the Ukrainian army. All this will allow for 5-7 months and demoralize the army. At this point the army should get stronger Novorossia and go on the offensive.
5. Ultimate goal - a reconstruction independent Novorossia friendly.
Other Ukraine loses access to the sea, will not have borders with Russia, has no industry and ekportnyh goods will not be able to override the "pipe." In this form, or what Ukraine is losing value for Russia and we are at it "hammered" - it becomes of importance on a par with Moldova. It also "clog" the EU and the U.S., so in the end returned to Ukraine yourself adequate state (Georgia).

SomeName wrote:In short,

1. Initial threatening of Kiev with Russian army until the resistance is firmly in place and strong enough to withstand against Ukrainian army. Now that the NOD forces are strong enough the Russian army is no longer needed and withdrawn.
2. Gradual introduction of heavy and more sophisticated weapons to the NOD ars.e.nal.
3. Establishing the chain of supply thru the border, opening the border with Russia (done). Sharp increase in the number of fighters in NOD army, both from local and outside volunteers. Many training camps are established currently both in Donetsk and Luhansk republics. Number of volunteers 10-20+ thousands.
4. Wear down Ukraine economically, demoralize its army, and eventually get on the offensive against it. Win the war globally, free whole Novorossia.
5. Ultimate goal - reconstruction whole South-Eastern Ukraine as new friendly entity, Novorossia.

Firebird wrote:Interesting. I can follow the logic.
But.. I just think its baffling to see Russia NOT go on the offensive vs the media laws, vs the slaughter of innocent people. ANd seeing a coup and all the bullshit develop in the 1st place.

Lets hope the full 24m of the S East would be in Novorossiya. There's also the issue of who would control Kiev. And whether the rest can remain militarily neutral or whatever.

One of the best option for messed up areas is actually re-Russification ie the settlement of pro Russians in pyschologically poisoned areas. But things are a long way from that in much of the Ukr currently.

SomeName wrote:Marinovka is under NOD control now.

The story about this fight is very controversial. Ukr forces boasted they won a fight, and showed burned Ural and suspiciously intact NOD BTR (number 37), but the checkpoint looked empty and heavily damaged, and no bodies nor blood were shown.
Also, check this destroyed Ural (more photos here http://rusvesna.su/news/1402050839 ).

It looks completely intact with only burning trucks. Very suspicious. It looks staged.

Vann7 wrote:

The economy of Ukraine is completely went dead, said to me one Belorussian who has relatives in Ukraine. Says there is nothing about no longer working, the state in the general chaos and only this war still occupies the attention of people to think more about it than about the economy.

And even the Kiev authorities to establish control of the East, only to then found themselves in a situation that they have no idea what to do and that in that sense this war suits.
But even that is not eternal.

Russia does not need to intervene militarily not sanction them would be one way or another, but because the question and what after that. The Americans have tried to draw Russia into the war I sort of Russian, Vietnam, and now all over themselves this distress because of Kiev junta unfit for anything. We still have a stronger firepower but not for long.
Rebels are stronger by the day. Russia should all fit nicely refugees to return and surrender to the authorities Donetsk and Luganska.

Americans are already engaged with mercenaries, with military advisers, and here Porošenko already requested and open military assistance. Now Americans should prepare what they intended to Russia.

And since Ukraine does nothing. Definitely ruined and destroyed the state, another in a series of American victims of the so-called geo-strategy.

Thats exactly my point of view.. the Ukraine Economy IS already dead. and they have to find $3.5 Billions US dollars to pay Russia for its
Gas on winter. So all Russia needs to do sit down and relax while supplying with weapons and reinforcements Rebels.. and wait Ukraine
economy to collapse.. once ukraine currency lose its value and everyone unemployed ,they all will Overthrow Poroshenko and all the Pro EU parties and plead Russia to take them back. I give Ukraine 1 more year to collapse. but with luck 2 years.

medo wrote:

Vann7 wrote:

The economy of Ukraine is completely went dead, said to me one Belorussian who has relatives in Ukraine. Says there is nothing about no longer working, the state in the general chaos and only this war still occupies the attention of people to think more about it than about the economy.

And even the Kiev authorities to establish control of the East, only to then found themselves in a situation that they have no idea what to do and that in that sense this war suits.
But even that is not eternal.

Russia does not need to intervene militarily not sanction them would be one way or another, but because the question and what after that. The Americans have tried to draw Russia into the war I sort of Russian, Vietnam, and now all over themselves this distress because of Kiev junta unfit for anything. We still have a stronger firepower but not for long.
Rebels are stronger by the day. Russia should all fit nicely refugees to return and surrender to the authorities Donetsk and Luganska.

Americans are already engaged with mercenaries, with military advisers, and here Porošenko already requested and open military assistance. Now Americans should prepare what they intended to Russia.

And since Ukraine does nothing. Definitely ruined and destroyed the state, another in a series of American victims of the so-called geo-strategy.

Thats exactly my point of view.. the Ukraine Economy IS already dead. and they have to find $3.5 Billions US dollars to pay Russia for its
Gas on winter. So all Russia needs to do sit down and relax while supplying with weapons and reinforcements Rebels.. and wait Ukraine
economy to collapse.. once ukraine currency lose its value and everyone unemployed ,they all will Overthrow Poroshenko and all the Pro EU parties and plead Russia to take them back. I give Ukraine 1 more year to collapse. but with luck 2 years.

Here is the point. I think Poroshenko well know, that Ukraine and himself as president could not survive without east Ukraine and help from Russia and this is why he will negotiate with Russia and with Novorussia to find a path from the crisis. I agree with you, Poroshenko will be most probably overthrown before the year end, but not from Russia or seps, but from new US backed revolution in Maidan. After fall of Poroshenko you could expect full civil war there and than will be the right time for Russian military intervention.