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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    medo
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    Post  medo Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:51 pm

    POKL wrote:I saw flaming_python post again – glad to see him as he makes sound contributions. We all know that he is also a very productive member of MP.net and it is hard to be equally active on more than one forum. As a sidenote I tried to register on MP but was not able so and my attempts to contact their mods remained unanswered. Enough OT. I am wondering if the recent downing of the Ukr plane was with some “light SAM” i.e. MANPAD or vehicle mounted IR SAM such as the Strela 10 or by some heavy SAM such as the BUK? Any detailed info?

    Who knows. They have Strela-10 earlier, but there was also some notices, that in south front they capture some Osa-AKM SAMs.
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    Post  Werewolf Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:08 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:True, but judging by Putins growing popularity, westerners will be harder pressed to find people willing to separate from Russia. Lol. Russians separating Russian states apart? Only region whp tried was chechnya and they had a high want to separate. What is the % of people in Siberia wanting to separate? 1%?

    They will have more success trying to fund separatist in NC regions. Even then, that may grant these NGO companies a 1 way ticket out of the country.

    Already most of them are being watched after the USAid debacle and are already listed as foreign agents.

    If US tries to balkanized some countries they will not ask the majority and citizens what they want they will just force scum like den Haage like in case of Kosovo and declare it independend, of course russia will not allow that, so US will find some scum from abroad like russophobes in ukraine,poland, estonia,latvia,lithunia or anywhere else to train,arm and send into russia. Just like in Syria where the amount of Syrians was actually the lowest amount of all terrorists among Al-CIAda,FSA and Al Nusra.

    The war of US against russians in Ukraine has at least one good thing that even the dumbest person sees now US is truelly evil and will not have any good relations with russia as long US exists and is a ZOG.

    Lol, you think foreigners will make it into Russia to do this? Yeah right. They had a much easier time in NC cause they all spoke similar, looked similar and the border was opened. After all of this, bet your ass that the border will be more tightly controlled and polish mercs? Lol. They barely have an army. Only people I see attempting are Ukrainians from west Ukraine and they couldnt even get into crimea from a bus.

    You think FSB and GRU are sitting on their ass? They were the ones who tipped off mod about NGO's, and more than likely the wereabouts of various islamic leaders they snuffed off recently in NC. Add to the fact that they spy on nearly everyone to boot.

    I think you didn't get the message. I wrote the US will try an attempt to do so, does not mean they will succeed. They will probably manage to find 2000 football holligans maybe even 10.000 and then use their controled media to fabricate stories that entire Russia is rumbling against dictator putin just the usual thing what US and their "freedom of speech as long you tell what i want to hear" does.
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    Post  sepheronx Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:33 pm

    That stuff has gone on for a long time. Last three elections there were plenty of people protesting on how evil Putin is, blah blah blah. And then the liberals, whom were at top of the protests, got hit pretty hard when it was found out they were being funded by USAid. Queue in Pussy Riot, and no different. But Russians alreafy are aware with evidence that foreign backed groups are gonna try to disrupt the upcoming elections, so that does not come pff as surprising to anyone and FSB will ne prepared.
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    Post  Vann7 Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:44 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    If US tries to balkanized some countries they will not ask the majority and citizens what they want they will just force scum like den Haage like in case of Kosovo and declare it independend, of course russia will not allow that, so US will find some scum from abroad like russophobes in ukraine,poland, estonia,latvia,lithunia or anywhere else to train,arm and send into russia. Just like in Syria where the amount of Syrians was actually the lowest amount of all terrorists among Al-CIAda,FSA and Al Nusra.

    The war of US against russians in Ukraine has at least one good thing that even the dumbest person sees now US is truelly evil and will not have any good relations with russia as long US exists and is a ZOG.

    The duma guy is a moron.. Nothing of what he said.. have any sense at all. Aside of the Russians not electing americans.  Laughing  What he told is a complete compilation of non-sense with fantasy stories. He went as far as suggesting Medvedev was going to betray Putin so that he could be overthrow and facilitate the west the destruction of Russia.  Laughing   His main argument appears to be that the US ambassador is so good at overthrowing governments that Russia will have no hope.. Laughing 

    I really can't believe you take him so seriously ,specially after the nuke claims ,or when he describe in detail how the so called civil war will be, what the police will do ,what medvedev will do.. thats total BS.. and he should be fired from his job for provoking fear in public. If Russia was any afraid of the US ambassador ,that overthrew Yakunovhych ,then they will not have allowed him to work in Russia.  Wink 

    IF they manage the west manage to get 100,000 to protest.. they will just show there for the money ,will maintain a peaceful raid and then leave to their homes. The west will not pay enough money for people risking to go to jail for 2 years.. Russia police is not Ukraine Police.. people will be arrested and period.. And if any protesters take guns.. it will be instantly Shot.. regardless what the west say. Russia is a super power ,ukraine is a third world nation.. Russia is not Ukraine or Syria.. and Russia do not need to play by any western rules or so called "humanitarian laws". Civil wars have not a chance in Russia.. today that is a strong stable economy and united nation with a very popular president. Not a chance..  September will come.. the elections will happen in St petersburg that that politician will look like the Biggest Idiot in the world when not a single protest happen or nothing to really care about. Even when the soviet union collapse Russia did not disbanded..so what im telling you is that Russians could disagree with a leader or not. .but none of them will support the breakup of their lovely nation no matter how much money they offered by the west. And Russian Government will have no problem to arrest 100,000 people is that is what is required to have peace.

    Russia is not Ukraine.. is not a third world nation.. and Putin do not have to follow any international laws at all or UN. They took Crimea and period.. regardless what the west said.. Yakunovych was told by the west what he needed to do to handle the protest.. he was so retarded to trust in them.. and he did everything they told him..and thats why he was overthrow.. because he was a fool. Allowing people to fire guns at your police or throw molotov bombs and beat them.. without arresting them is the most retarded thing ever any leader could do.. Yakunovych was overthrow for not imposing order and not using force...for being too soft with bandits burning the capital.  Russia will not have that problem. No chance dude.. An euromaidan will never happen in Russia.. Anyone using firearms will be shot on sight ,regardless what Obama says.. or his "red lines".. Russia can even use chemical weapons or his army if that is what is required to take control of St Peterburg and not have the entire nation without access to the baltic sea. When you have nukes ,or simply have a powerful country ,no one is going to declare red lines against you . Look at israel and Gaza if u have doubts. They simply did anything they wanted and nothing happened to them. In the case of Russia all that could happen is just western sanctions which Russia will not care. And Overwhelming majority of Russians will never support Nazism or support Gay bullshit laws and become a colony of EU or US. So any civil unrest in Russia is doomed to fail ,all will be arrested if use violence or interrupt the operations of the business or the Government.  Anyone who occupy a building will end in Jail. I can't believe anyone can take seriously that guy.. he is an idiot. that do not understand the difference that being a super power .majority united nation ,and public support makes in any artificial civil unrest promoted from abroad.


    I think you didn't get the message. I wrote the US will try an attempt to do so, does not mean they will succeed. They will probably manage to find 2000 football holligans maybe even 10.000 and then use their controled media to fabricate stories that entire Russia is rumbling against dictator putin just the usual thing what US and their "freedom of speech as long you tell what i want to hear" does.

    Is impossible to break today  Russia from the outside... by financing mercenaries. no matter the number.. 50k ,100k or 1 million it will be the same.. they will be arrested and put in Jail or shot in sight if Use weapons.Russia police can even use sleep gas.. and put to sleep any huge protest ,then later they wake up in jail. Or sound weapons..etc. Simply Russia have too many tools and technology and trained police to counter and control population to fail. [u] The only way to possibly do an "Euromaidan" in RUssia ,is from the inside..thats exactly the way the Soviet Union broke ,with Gorvachev reforms ,that he betrayed the Government. So if for example Medvedev and all Political parties abandon Putin.. but even in such extraordinary unthinkable events putin can win because he have the support of the armed forces.But the same is true..for USA.. it can be broken from the inside too.. so is not a weakness ,is the way it is. So i do not see any scenario of how can Russia can experience EuroMaidan in any way.. is like an insult to intelligence and common sense. Mayority of RUssians do not want to be a colony of US or europeans. they are proud to be Russians.  Russian simply are not Ukrainians and they are all very patriotic. The only card the west can play is with muslin..and maybe try with asians in far east..but will get nothing. but the most possible scenario of using the muslins in caucasus is ironically the ones he does not talk. So we will see next month.. how he will look like the king of fools.. when nothing happens.. and at best all that we see is very peaceful protest for a few hours. They get their money ,show in the protest ,receive their checks and then leave . Smile


    Last edited by Vann7 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:30 pm; edited 4 times in total
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:07 pm

    mikeE, cranium, Vann, sepheronx, werewolf, medo, morpheus really doing a fine job. I cannot put a +1 to all
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    Post  Mike E Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:32 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:mikeE, cranium, Vann, sepheronx, werewolf, medo, morpheus really doing a fine job. I cannot put a +1 to all

    Anyone here a hacker?  Twisted Evil
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    Post  Firebird Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:04 pm

    In response to America causing shit in the Ukraine and the rest of the Russian speaking world, Russia can do lots.

    There's blacks, some of whom wanted/even today WANT separatism. Mexican separatists/ la Raza. There's Texans. There's the Southern League/similar. There's Hawaians, Alaskans, Puerto Ricos who want to be entireuly separate. There's part of the N West USA who've talked about being one state with bits of Canada (some ecologiocal type ideology).

    Then there's Libertarians, homosexuals, Far Righters, religious extremists, Muslim extremists, all sorts of different disparate groups.
    Russia is far more homogeneous in some ways.

    Russia may have oligarchs. But America has oligarchs and a really, really oppressed poor. And its middle class and young skilled people are suffering. Really smart kids come out of good universities, and are by some definitions effectively bankrupt.

    There's so much shit that could be caused in America. Add in the Latino drug gangs and other criminality, together with porous Southern borders and much unemployment due to the drug of illegal immigration that American big business is hooked on.

    Russia might even look at Britain. There's a gigantic mass of immigration, potential Scottish breakaway and a class structure that hasn't changed that much since VIctorian times.

    Yes agitating is expensive. But Pak Das and submarines don't come cheap either...

    PS I knew there was one big group I forgot.. the INJUNS...


    Last edited by Firebird on Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Mike E Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:49 pm

    Good point... Maybe Russia should give the US some of its own medicine. 

    Even if they don't, the US is going to "fall". This country becomes more and more partisan and politically diverse that it can't last forever.... As you said, some US states want to "separate".

     Off Topic
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #7 - Page 29 Empty Situation in Novorossiya

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:52 pm

    Situation in Novorossiya, on 17/08/14

    Source: http://kot-ivanov.livejournal.com/



    The Situation in the Ukraine. #7 - Page 29 CFgMWiZ
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:58 pm

    Success is what keep USA together. In many ways they are more divided than Yugoslavia.

    Europe well most western countries still are dictatorships and they try to teach democracy to others, so bigoted. The revolution can't be avoided forever their citizens will demand freedom. I am disappointed by Spain but Elizabeth is old I hope for more. The people there deserve a better future away from tyrrans.
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    Post  Mike E Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:00 pm

    Many people are proud of the "West" of killing Tyrants (Gaddafi and Hussein etc) but are blind that their very own leaders are tyrants as well...
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    Post  Firebird Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:07 pm

    RT is reporting dozens of people killed in rocket attacks whilst in a convoy trying to leave Donbass. Saying that women and kids were included in the victims.

    The junta is saying its the Donbass forces and not the hohols (same lies, different day).

    I was wondering what the hell is this all about?

    Maybe the NATO dark forces/Shite Sektor or whoever just want to kill as many civilians as possible/smash up as much of Donbass as possible.

    If thats the case, surely the red line for Russia has been overstepped?
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    Post  Werewolf Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:17 pm

    Mike E wrote:Many people are proud of the "West" of killing Tyrants (Gaddafi and Hussein etc) but are blind that their very own leaders are tyrants as well...

    Gaddafi and Lybia had far higher living standards than majority of americans have. Free education and very good eduaction, free healthcare which only a minority in US can even afford, housing is subsidized, the own citizens get monthly payments of the oil sales or subsidized gas for an amount of money every month like it is common in Iran. (where in the world else did get citizens any payment from the resources its country is selling?) Nowhere else!


    Last edited by Werewolf on Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:18 pm

    Mike E wrote:Many people are proud of the "West" of killing Tyrants (Gaddafi and Hussein etc) but are blind that their very own leaders are tyrants as well...

    By definition. I mean only two areas in the world have so many monarchies. Middle East and Western Europe..
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    Post  Mike E Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:20 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Mike E wrote:Many people are proud of the "West" of killing Tyrants (Gaddafi and Hussein etc) but are blind that their very own leaders are tyrants as well...

    Gaddafi and Lybia had far higher living standards than majority of americans have. Free education and very good eduaction, free healthcare which only a minority in US can even afford, housing is subsidized, the own citizens get monthly payments of the oil sales or subsidized gas for an amount of money every month like it is common in Iran. (where in the world else did get citizens any payment from the resources its country is selling?) Nowhere else!

    I should of put (and meant) "tyrants".
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    Post  Mike E Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:20 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:
    Mike E wrote:Many people are proud of the "West" of killing Tyrants (Gaddafi and Hussein etc) but are blind that their very own leaders are tyrants as well...

    By definition. I mean only two areas in the world have so many monarchies. Middle East and Western Europe..

    True...
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    Post  arpakola Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:56 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    T055 wrote:
    Mike E wrote:- Yes, I have. Blowing a country to crap doesn't help anyones economic situation, that is for sure. e...

    It does help the West. They eliminate systematically Russian strongholds. They don't care about civilians.

    Anyway, back to Kiev Zombie Army shelling Luhansk. I read that they have taken already one of the police stations and put a UKR flag on it.

    How can you say Russia economy is "Weak" when their GDP under illegal sanctions is ~1% ?


    Russian economy grows 0.8%, avoids technical recession
    http://rt.com/business/179556-russia-economy-grows-second-quarter/


    Do not post graphic photos on this forum. Post a link with a warning or do not post at all. I have been very soft on this for some time. To all people who feel the need to post such material here I do not have unlimited patience and people will start to get breaks from this forum. I don't think I am being unreasonable... I think I have been very clear. NO MORE WARNINGS.
    Finally they desided to save their oligarhs , not Donbass
    ===========================
    Khodorkovsky's revenge

    this hard working person with  "promissing"  career ..
    During his studies at the institute, Khodorkovsky became a member of the Communist Party and an activist of the Komsomol – the Young Communists’ Union. He soon progressed to become deputy secretary of the institute’s Komsomol cell, and in 1986 he became a member, and then a deputy head, of the Komsomol committee in Moscow’s Frunzensky District.
    The Frunzensky Komsomol Committee was one of the few organizations that were first allowed to undertake business activities with the start of perestroika.  censored  Khodorkovsky was in charge of the committee’s business branch, and later he created and headed an event-management company  Very Happy , the Foundation for Youth Initiative. In 1987, Khodorkovsky, together with his business partner Platon Lebedev, founded the NTTMCenter – officially a sort of business incubator with broad Soviet state support. Two more of Khodorkovsky’s famous partners started to work with him at NTTM – they were Leonid Nevzlin and Vladislav Surkov.

    In late 1987, Khodorkovsky and his partners formed a company they called MENATEP (the Russian abbreviation for inter-branch science and technology programs). Very Happy  (well thats a serius business and science development..), and all sorts of deals with mass consumption goods. In 1988, Khodorkovsky registered one of the first commercial banks in the country, KIB NTP, and floated its shares, successfully attracting funds from the population.
    With this hard working person Khodorkovsky .. Mr. Vladislav Surkov worked as partner and advisor..
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #7 - Page 29 X_3
    and later as close advisor of Putin. has been said that this  (hard working) guy secured Medvedevs nomination for president..
    This same person ,Vladislav Surkov, has been openly accused from Donbass (Gubarev, Strelkov etc) that he works hard for the failure of the Donbass uprising.
    Who can denay that  Dugin's lost post as Head of the Department of Sociology of International Relations of Moscow State University has nothing to do with this guy??

    sory to say again... The Russian ruling class  has not a gram of patriotism and only cares for the SHORT term profits, not being able (as most of them are uneducated ) to see long term, as the US and European ruling class does.
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #7 - Page 29 SurkovPutin

    http://13571113.blogspot.gr/2014/08/the-president-and-avatar-or.html
    =========================



    Last edited by arpakola on Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:02 am; edited 5 times in total
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    Post  Vann7 Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:29 am

    Apparently Ukie army fired 3x Toscka-U ballistic missiles to near the border and Russia air defenses neutralized
    them before they impact the ground.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #7 - Page 29 Ac0716c4f9fbb1b545d202b490d26364


    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/3833-ukrainskie-ballisticheskie-rakety-byli-sbity-rossiyskoy-sistemoy-pro.html&usg=ALkJrhiwUKVkaY_hPLMnXxQ6iqDN9CchlA
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    Post  arpakola Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:33 am

    Vann7 wrote:Apparently Ukie army fired 3x Toscka-U ballistic missiles to near the border and Russia air defenses neutralized
    them before they impact the ground.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #7 - Page 29 Ac0716c4f9fbb1b545d202b490d26364


    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/3833-ukrainskie-ballisticheskie-rakety-byli-sbity-rossiyskoy-sistemoy-pro.html&usg=ALkJrhiwUKVkaY_hPLMnXxQ6iqDN9CchlA

    good real life test for russian antimissile systems.. s300 MP ..say
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    Post  Vann7 Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:58 am


    This video appears to be from a briefing by ukie army from the southern cauldron ,what happened 2-4 days ago.
    They managed to escape ..

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    Post  arpakola Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:07 am

    Ukies under fire


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    Post  Vann7 Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:37 am

    Im reading on the comments on Colonel site.. that apparently Strelkov was removed from his position
    because Russia and or Putin do not like him or do not trust in him.. Any one knows if there is any truth
    about this? That Streelkov is not liked by Russia?  and or Putin?  and the weird reason of removing him from his position?


    Also in colonel site.. he was replying to someone, and he told that there is very powerful people
    in Russia that wants to see it destroyed and the Novorrosiya also destroyed.. Anyone knows who
    could be he meaning? because all the major political parties supported the take over of Crimea and
    support novorrosiya. which Power enemies Russia have inside Russia? and what could they gain destroying
    Russia?  Neutral 
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    Post  arpakola Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:14 am

    Vann7 wrote:Im reading on the comments on Colonel site.. that apparently Strelkov was removed from his position
    because Russia and or Putin do not like him or do not trust in him.. Any one knows if there is any truth
    about this? That Streelkov is not liked by Russia?  and or Putin?  and the weird reason of removing him from his position?


    Also in colonel site.. he was replying to someone, and he told that there is very powerful people
    in Russia that wants to see it destroyed and the Novorrosiya also destroyed.. Anyone knows who
    could be he meaning? because all the major political parties supported the take over of Crimea and
    support novorrosiya. which Power enemies Russia have inside Russia? and what could they gain destroying
    Russia?  Neutral 

    read my post on ,Vladislav Surkov and his company..

    Him and his oligarh friends prefer 100 times Yiaros and Porosenko , rather then to deal with Sterlkov and Gubarev..
    http://13571113.blogspot.gr/2014/06/gumbarev.html

    Putin seems that does note realises that is enough one week with wrong desisions to rub out everything he has done so far.. the last 15 years
    ==========================

    reminder
    Metaphysical Doubts Concerning the Existence of Modern Ukraine, a 1918 Creation of the German General Staff
    http://tarpley.net/metaphysical-doubts-concerning-the-existence-of-modern-ukraine-a-1918-creation-of-the-german-general-staff/
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    Vann7


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #7 - Page 29 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Vann7 Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:43 am

    arpakola wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:Im reading on the comments on Colonel site.. that apparently Strelkov was removed from his position
    because Russia and or Putin do not like him or do not trust in him.. Any one knows if there is any truth
    about this? That Streelkov is not liked by Russia?  and or Putin?  and the weird reason of removing him from his position?


    Also in colonel site.. he was replying to someone, and he told that there is very powerful people
    in Russia that wants to see it destroyed and the Novorrosiya also destroyed.. Anyone knows who
    could be he meaning? because all the major political parties supported the take over of Crimea and
    support novorrosiya. which Power enemies Russia have inside Russia? and what could they gain destroying
    Russia?  Neutral 

    read my post on ,Vladislav Surkov and his company..

    Him and his oligarh friends prefer 100 times Yiaros and Porosenko , rather then to deal with Sterlkov and Gubarev..
    http://13571113.blogspot.gr/2014/06/gumbarev.html


    But that guy Surkov he wants to see Russia destroyed? Colonel cassad told there are powerful people in Russia that wants to see Russia destroyed..  I cannot imagine a real Russian wanting to see their nation destroyed.

    according to wiki.. he is also under sanctions by the west.. for Crimea.. So apparently his position welcomes The Crimea takeover for being under sanctions.
    arpakola
    arpakola


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #7 - Page 29 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  arpakola Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:18 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    arpakola wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:Im reading on the comments on Colonel site.. that apparently Strelkov was removed from his position
    because Russia and or Putin do not like him or do not trust in him.. Any one knows if there is any truth
    about this? That Streelkov is not liked by Russia?  and or Putin?  and the weird reason of removing him from his position?


    Also in colonel site.. he was replying to someone, and he told that there is very powerful people
    in Russia that wants to see it destroyed and the Novorrosiya also destroyed.. Anyone knows who
    could be he meaning? because all the major political parties supported the take over of Crimea and
    support novorrosiya. which Power enemies Russia have inside Russia? and what could they gain destroying
    Russia?  Neutral 

    read my post on ,Vladislav Surkov and his company..

    Him and his oligarh friends prefer 100 times Yiaros and Porosenko , rather then to deal with Sterlkov and Gubarev..
    http://13571113.blogspot.gr/2014/06/gumbarev.html


    But that guy Surkov he wants to see Russia destroyed? Colonel cassad told there are powerful people in Russia that wants to see Russia destroyed..  I cannot imagine a real Russian wanting to see their nation destroyed.

    according to wiki.. he is also under sanctions by the west.. for Crimea.. So apparently his position welcomes The Crimea takeover for being under sanctions.

    Its hard talking refering to Surkov I guess, he means that those Oligarhs place their business interests above all

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #7 - Page 29 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

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