The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

sepheronx wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:S-300 train with 5 vehicles reported in village near Mariupol - completly unverified as to time and place

(Is this what was moved from Odessa?) (& is the Kiev side? or ??)

Looks rusted.

If they are near Mariupol, then they will end up being struck I imagine eventually by artillery.  Or hopefully Russia will gift Novorussia with something like Klub K or Iskander to deal with that.  But then again, useless to have against novorussians.

Rodinazombie wrote:^^^^ spot on

I think a lot of us talk about invading ukraine simply because we want this war to stop, we want the ukies to be beaten once and for all, but when you look at the particulars, you realise only a madman would carry out a real invasion of ukraine. It would play right into the hands of kiev and the west' so why fall into that trap?

Ukraine wants russia to invade, and to use that as a way to drain russia, the best way to oppose this is simply doing exactly the same to ukraine. Prop donbass up and supply them enough to ensure that kiev cant win. Couple that with hitting them over the head with an illovaysk sized hammer every now and then to ensure kiev signs on russias peace terms, and eventually the ukries will be drained financially, militarily, society will fracture even further and the regime will lose its grip. At that point game will be won. All without a single shot fired in anger by russia 'officially'.

The west and ukraine can see that this is precisely the route events are taking, hence the constant provocations and propaganda.

The sad fact is that a lot of people are going to suffer in the meantime,  and thats why i still think that putin should be taking a harder line with kiev. He can still be more forceful with kiev, without deviating from his plan, in my opinion.

Big_Gazza wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

VladimirSahin wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

VladimirSahin wrote:........................................................
True, But I wouldn't let them think that they can do what they did to Arabs to us. Murders millions of people in Arab countries, If they will try it on either Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Serbia I think the problem must be eradicated. Its enough what they did to Muslims, Arabs, Africans, And even Native Americans. This must be stopped, They have murdered so much peoples if I were to list it here it would make this reply very longer. They are murderers cold blooded, Sure I know there are Atheists on this forum, But being raised as a Orthodox kid, I know god will burn them in hell if not in this world. And end rage. Talking about NATO and European countries btw not just Poroshenko as his leaders are from NATO and basically zionist dogs.

They already tried and done it in Serbia, google it junior.  

Real world does not function the way you imagine it. Money brings victory, idealism brings defeat. Soviets were full of ideals but short on cash. I don't need to remind you how that ended up.

Politics and war are dirty business and sticking to empty idealism and being impatient is perfect way to screw both up.

Also, about your last sentence: I hope you are not referring to actual members of the Jewish people. If you are then please read following article before you answer just so you could see where I'm going with this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_persecution_of_Serbs

My english is not great so apologies for the zionist, What I meant was *fascism* So apologies to any offended Jews. I actually am studying English and I dont know meaning of some terms or simply mix them.

It's called a freudian slip

FFS can we not call a spade a spade?  How can anyone seriously claim that Zionists are not a corrupting influence on the global corridors of power, and exert a tremendous and mostly malign influence?  One only has to look at the US politicians (both Demoncrat and Rethuglican) behaving like a troop of trained monkeys when High Lord Netanyahoo of the Chosenites comes to Washington to deliver a sermon to his loyal Goyim slaves.  The grovelling obeisance demonstrated by these elected representatives of the Uh'Murican public towards a man who leads a militaristic racist apartheid nation is truly sickening.

I'm fed up of Jews getting a free pass to indulge in lies, deceit and outright subversion in pursuit of their racist dream of an ethnically pure Jewish state and the deliberate destruction of the Palestinian arab people and their identity.  I'm just as fed up of non-Jews defending them and throwing up a smoke screen with crys of "anti-semitism" when people of conscience can no longer tolerate the lies and bullshit.  The persecution of Jews by the long-dead Nazi regime is NOT RELEVANT to the geo-politics of today. Modern Jews and the state of Israel cannot use these old crimes as a justification for their present day subversion.

BRUSSELS, May 22 (Reuters) - The European Union and Ukraine are planning to set up a joint anti-corruption investigative team by next month to tackle potential misuse of EU funds for Kiev, said an EU official involved in setting up the unit. The 28-nation EU has disbursed 1.61 billion euros ($1.77 billion) in loans to Kiev since 2014, and plans to pay out a further other 1.8 billion euros in the coming months as part of a support package to help stabilise Ukraine's economy. Other EU funds are spent in Ukraine on humanitarian aid and technical assistance for projects aimed at reforming the administration or increasing energy security. The unit, the EU's first to tackle fraud in a beneficiary country, would be composed of both Ukrainian and EU detectives, and have a temporary mandate. Indictments would remain the prerogative of Ukrainian authorities, however. "We are discussing a team of 30 to 40 detectives with an annual budget up to 5 million euros," said the EU official, who declined to be named. He said the European Commission was likely to formalise the proposal in June, opening the way for an agreement to be signed with Ukraine. He said it might be possible to send a smaller team out before all the formalities were complete. ($1 = 0.9072 euros) (Reporting By Francesco Guarascio; Editing by Kevin Liffey) wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:The difference in Donetsk when the Ukrainians aren't shelling - January, May -

sepheronx wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:EU and Ukraine plan joint anti-corruption team

http://trove.com/a/EU-and-Ukraine-plan-joint-anti-corruption-team.fcIKQ?utm_campaign=hosted&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=sns

Hopefully they will arrest the President then. I mean, after the open evidence of his mansion and destroying a historical site and all.

EU is becoming a major joke.

sepheronx wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:EU and Ukraine plan joint anti-corruption team

http://trove.com/a/EU-and-Ukraine-plan-joint-anti-corruption-team.fcIKQ?utm_campaign=hosted&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=sns

Hopefully they will arrest the President then.  I mean, after the open evidence of his mansion and destroying a historical site and all.

EU is becoming a major joke.

Cowboy's daughter wrote:S-300 train with 5 vehicles reported in village near Mariupol - completly unverified as to time and place

(Is this what was moved from Odessa?) (& is the Kiev side? or ??)

Flagship Victory wrote:Aidar Battalion fighter Serhiy Schehlov has been released today as a gesture of good will after 7 months of captivity. Releasing the 93rd brigade commander a day before Mozgovoi's death and now this? Explain to me, why does NAF release fascist captives out of gestures of good will whereas fascists do not return the favor?

Khepesh wrote:I read all the posts about Russia not invading Ukraine because it is a trap, and agree. The few posts I have made about VSN tanks being on lawn of Mariinsky palace by end of September should be seen in the first place as VSN tanks, not Russian, and in the second place as simply a little provocation.

whir wrote:

Khepesh wrote:I read all the posts about Russia not invading Ukraine because it is a trap, and agree. The few posts I have made about VSN tanks being on lawn of Mariinsky palace by end of September should be seen in the first place as VSN tanks, not Russian, and in the second place as simply a little provocation.

Looking at the concentration of hardware and manpower a mayor defeat in the battlefield, either by destroying of isolating a large number units in a short period of time, could send the country in panic; and remember that SBU uses Army to keep radicals on check if that leverage is gone the only thing that prevents weapons to flood the streets is their ability to overrun whoever is keeping an eye on them.

Россия 24 wrote:One day. Special Report Alexander Rogatkin

tvzikua wrote:US Army Paratroopers played American football with Lviv "Lions"

Khepesh wrote:I read all the posts about Russia not invading Ukraine because it is a trap, and agree. The few posts I have made about VSN tanks being on lawn of Mariinsky palace by end of September should be seen in the first place as VSN tanks, not Russian, and in the second place as simply a little provocation.

However, what is not mentioned is what happens in the event of a VSN victory on the battlefield. Without making a very long post about this, I will just say that when ukrops forces in the south are destroyed and they cannot then hold the northern front and cover the huge gap from Donetsk to Zaporozhia, and they must cover that as they cannot presume VSN will stop at Mariupol, even tho they probably will, and they by necessity begin to withdraw, perhaps not leaving any forces south of the Donets, what will happen in Kiev? What if there is a civil war or military coup in Kiev and the country collapses in real chaos, who stops this? I believe this is a serious possibility and that Russia must be prepared to invade Ukraine, not in the sense of a war of conquest, but to restore order. Playing clever games of chess to avoid upsetting the "partners" when all Ukraine burns will not be so clever. You see, this is not so easy, for while Russia will not let DNR/LNR loose, the very fact of surviving the ukrops offensive when it comes may well precipitate events that spiral rapidly out of control and upset everything. I am sure thought is given to this in Moscow, and Kiev and Washington, but it seems not so much on the networks.

whir wrote:

tvzikua wrote:US Army Paratroopers played American football with Lviv "Lions"

PapaDragon wrote:

Khepesh wrote:I read all the posts about Russia not invading Ukraine because it is a trap, and agree. The few posts I have made about VSN tanks being on lawn of Mariinsky palace by end of September should be seen in the first place as VSN tanks, not Russian, and in the second place as simply a little provocation.

However, what is not mentioned is what happens in the event of a VSN victory on the battlefield. Without making a very long post about this, I will just say that when ukrops forces in the south are destroyed and they cannot then hold the northern front and cover the huge gap from Donetsk to Zaporozhia, and they must cover that as they cannot presume VSN will stop at Mariupol, even tho they probably will, and they by necessity begin to withdraw, perhaps not leaving any forces south of the Donets, what will happen in Kiev? What if there is a civil war or military coup in Kiev and the country collapses in real chaos, who stops this? I believe this is a serious possibility and that Russia must be prepared to invade Ukraine, not in the sense of a war of conquest, but to restore order. Playing clever games of chess to avoid upsetting the "partners" when all Ukraine burns will not be so clever. You see, this is not so easy, for while Russia will not let DNR/LNR loose, the very fact of surviving the ukrops offensive when it comes may well precipitate events that spiral rapidly out of control and upset everything. I am sure thought is given to this in Moscow, and Kiev and Washington, but it seems not so much on the networks.

Actually it think that this meltdown of the Ukraine is beneficial to Russia's interests in the long run and there are clear benefits to letting rest of Ukraine burn for a while:

1) It is quite possible that Russia's "support" for Ukrainian territorial integrity has lot less to do with reintegrating Novorossia back into Ukraine and a lot more to do with integrating rest of Ukraine into Novorossia. Several analyst have already suggested this.

2) This will be much easier to do if Ukraine is left to properly "tenderize" in societal collapse and infighting for several months or maybe years if need be (why not?). In this situation partitioning Ukraine into several nearly independent states will be much easier. On paper they can remain part of one country. Managing several smaller entities is much easier than single large one.

3) Lengthy period of chaos will also drastically reduce price tag for putting this plan into practice. Longer the chaos lasts, lower the expectations of the locals will be. After a while they will be satisfied with just cheapest of basics. As it stands now, Ego of average holhol is simply too big for them to be cost effective investment.

More patience=bigger discount. After a while it will basically be "fire-sale"  

4) Total chaos in Ukraine will also deter US and EU from sticking their nose into that money-pit. That type of military-financial adventurism is frowned upon in post Iraq/Afghanistan world. Not to mention bear next door.

5) In this scenario there would be mass exodus of people from Ukraine and into EU and Russia. For Russia this is beneficial, especially if that Siberia homestead initiative goes into full gear. For EU not so much and there are clear benefits to financially harming Russia's competition in EU.
All in the game...

6) There would be some military involvement by RU armed forces but other than air-cover I think that it would be wise to leave most of the dirty work to willing locals.
In terms of law enforcement and security (front lines aside), Novorossia is already safest place in "Ukraine". I fully expect them to remain at that position if this scenario occurs.

7) Needless to say, this process would be extremely unpleasant for 99,99% of population of "rest of Ukraine" but I  think that no one should concern themselves too much with their discomfort.
They volunteered for that job themselves, let them enjoy.