The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

auslander wrote:My information says the two children have dies. The silence from The West is deafening.

Sputnik wrote:Ukraine's Failure to Make Debt Payment to Russia Means Default – Moscow
BUSINESS 18:37 11.06.2015

If Kiev fails to make its next debt payment to Moscow by June 22, Ukraine will enter a state of default, Russian Deputy Finance Minister Sergei Storchak said Thursday.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Russia bought Ukrainian sovereign bonds worth $3 billion in late 2013. The deadline for the next coupon payment of $75 million is set for June 20.
“June 20 is a Saturday, so the payment is likely to come on Monday, June 22. Failure to pay would mean default,” Storchak said in an interview with Russia-1 television.

In light of budget constraints and absence of access to capital markets, Russia “has to insist that the debtor fully complies with its obligations,” he said, noting, however, that failing to make a timely payment is not in the interests of Ukraine as a sovereign debtor.

“Therefore, I believe that the payment will be made.”

According to Storchak, Ukrainian borrowers owe Russian banks a total of about $25-26 billion. Continue reading.

SBS 6 wrote:
SBS 6 is a Dutch commercial TV channel owned by a subsidiary of Finnish Sanoma Oyj.

Sputnik wrote:Live and Let Live: Russians Refuse to Nuke United States
SOCIETY 19:02 11.06.2015(updated 19:18 11.06.2015)

The Russian newspaper ‘Komsomolskaya Pravda’ decided to conduct an impromptu poll in response to a survey in which Americans signed a petition to nuke Russia.

Russians residing in the city of Alushta in Crimea refused to sign a petition for a conditional pre-emptive nuclear strike on the United States.



The Russian newspaper ‘Komsomolskaya Pravda’ decided to conduct an impromptu poll in response to a similar survey conducted by an American blogger in San Diego.

American journalist Mark Dice decided to conduct a poll asking Americans to sign a petition to preemptively nuke Russia. The journalist, who is the best-selling author of ‘Inside the Illuminati’ and frequent guest on History Channel’s ‘Ancient Aliens’, conducted the poll on the beaches of Southern California. Continue reading.

Reuters wrote:IMF quits Greek talks; EU tells Tsipras: stop gambling
Markets | Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:59am EDT WASHINGTON/BRUSSELS | BY ANNA YUKHANANOV AND RENEE MALTEZOU

The International Monetary Fund dramatically raised the stakes in Greece's stalled debt talks on Thursday, announcing that its delegation had broken off negotiations in Brussels and flown home because of major differences with Athens.

The surprise IMF announcement came as the European Union told leftist Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras bluntly to stop gambling with his cash-strapped country's future and take crucial decisions needed to avert a devastating default.

A Greek source told Reuters that the entire Greek delegation that had been negotiating a cash-for-reform deal had left Brussels for home on Thursday, citing outstanding disagreements.

"There are major differences between us in most key areas," IMF spokesman Gerry Rice told reporters in Washington. "There has been no progress in narrowing these differences recently and thus we are well away from an agreement."

Greece needs a deal to unlock aid before the end of the month when it is otherwise set to default on a 1.6 billion euro ($1.80 billion) repayment to the Washington-based IMF.

That could trigger capital controls and possibly send Greece hurtling toward an exit from the euro zone, with unpredictable consequences for financial markets and the European economy.

Rice said the key sticking points remained pensions, taxes and financing. The IMF technical team had returned to the United States but remained "fully engaged" with Athens.

European stocks fell after the IMF comments. Continue reading.

UNIAN via Google Translate wrote:У МВФ підтвердили, що виділять Україні другий транш навіть у разі провалу переговорів із кредиторами
The IMF confirmed that will provide Ukraine the second tranche even if the failure of negotiations with creditors
11.06.2015 | 19:21

The Fund has instruments that allow it to continue to lend to countries that can not cope with the obligations to private creditors.

The Board of Directors of the main creditor Ukraine International Monetary Fund will decide about allocation of Kyiv second credit tranche program EFF $ 1.7 billion. immediately, as soon as the Ukrainian government will fulfill a number of preconditions for the reform program, said during a traditional briefing in Washington Director of IMF external relations Gerry Rice.

"I have no details of a possible meeting of the Board of Directors. Everything will depend on how soon Ukraine will fulfill a number of preconditions - said Rice. - But I want to note that the Fund's head Christine Lagarde met with Prime Minister of Ukraine Arseniy Yatsenyuk, and they discussed the necessary questions. A compromise was found in almost all items. But discussions are continuing. "

This Rice recalled that the issue of debt restructuring, which is also celebrated as one of the conditions for granting Ukraine tranche not removed from the agenda. "Yes, indeed. We hope that a compromise with creditors will still be found, it is important for Ukraine. But the deputy director of the IMF David Lipton has voiced the idea that the IMF has the tools that allow the Fund to continue to lend to countries that can not cope with the obligations to private creditors, "- concluded Rice. Continue reading.

chinggis wrote:Anyone know who is owner of tank farm which is burning near Kiev?

Vann7 wrote:The Strelkov vs Putin report is important . for Putin Bashers to read..

Strelkov is no question a patriot.. and a great man.. but his logic is purely militaristic..
He does not knows.. all the things that are happening in Russia and Europe..

The believe that you can drive tanks to kiev ,and after overthrowing kiev.. maintain
control of Ukraine with US and Poland and EUrope Financing unrest and arming guerrillas?
With CIA /Mossad and Mi6 doing sabotage to Russia occupation to Kiev?

Not even Americans could hold control of bagdad for more than 10 years..the population
was hostile to americans.. and they were forced to leave. So it will be the same.. IF Russia
invades Kiev , there will be no less than half the population very hostile to Russia.. and
I don't think strelkov taught the possibility of Putin having to deal with Euromaidan unrest again
as Yakunovych had to deal..  i neither think strelkov taught either the possibility of a massive
retaliation of Euro Ukrainians to all etnic Russians by civilians... Risking the live of more thousands of people..  Russia will be forced to invade all Ukraine cities.. all of them..

Did Strelkvo measured the cost of such operation on Russian budget?
I don't think so... Did he ever measure the unrest on Russian cities for Russian soldiers
being killed every day in a country that majority of its people does not want them and wants to be part of Europe?


I think Putin strategy is the more logical one.. that is freeze the conflict.. and wait Ukrainians
wake up. And see that they have no future with American controlling kiev and that Europe does not wants them.  Slowly now that is happening..   once Ukraine economy completely dies
and IMF giveup loaning money and you see unrest in all Ukraine cities , not only in Donetsk and Lugansk but in all Ukraine people demanding Poroshenko to resign and many asking Russia
to restore order. only then is when the real revolution will start... weapons will start to flow to
all ukrainian cities from Russia and the Russian Army will have a clean path to kiev without
major opposition. Since people will know Russia is their only hope to return Ukraine.

Timing is the key.. and public opinion needs to change.. and Ukrainians give up their ideas to
become part of europe. Since they don't want them. Like the Polish politician told..  Russia do have the probability to take all Ukraine back.. not just donetsk and lugansk.. and without people
resisting much.. the crimean way or at least Georgian way.. they resist a few days and later stop fighting and allow RUssian tanks to drive peacefully.   Then Russia organize new election,
cancel Ukraine Fascist dictatorship constitution and restore democracy with help of United Nations ,Belarus and friendly European nations. With full representation for Ethnic Russians in Kiev parliament..

and trust me.. Russia will NOT annexe Donetsk or Lugansk ..even if invade.  Russia will need to stabilize their own economy first ,before paying the pensions of 5 millions more Ukrainians.. and restore Donetsk and Lugansk industry .. and then use Donetsk and lugansk
to lure other cities into demanding their independence too.. and only when the war is over ,
and kiev kicked from power by its own people... and public opinion favorable for Russia in most Ukraine , and when Russia economy finally strong ,only then is when Russia can start referendums for reversing Ukraine Independence if they want and turning it into an autonomous
Republic of Russia..


But is way too early for Russia annexing Ukraine.  the impact on Russia economy for doing that
will be TOO BIG for too little reward.. I think Transnistria and Abkhazia and South ossetia have bigger change to become annexed earlier than Donetsk and Lugansk.. since they have been waiting for longer to become part of Russia. But in a decade or bit more.. If Russia economy take off.. you will see Russia again with most of  Ukraine and many other regions annexed into it..  

Economy is all.. if Americans manage to isolate Russia from Europe and maintain forever a proxy war in Ukraine ,collapsing Russia economy ,not only Russia will be unable to help donetsk and lugansk. But it will also risk losing cities too..  You will see revolutions in Caucausus for independence.. etc.. a reapeat of Soviet Union collapse. This is why Russia need to carefully
measure all their actions in Ukraine with price and economic cost for Russian budget.

My prediction is there will be a world wide recession. Russia will be forced into a limited war with Ukraine by US,for small time and The Europeans lack of sovereignty and independence from Americans will force them  to nearly cut all their trade with Russia if not all of it.. including energy.  No only the mentality of Ukrainians needs to change for of the Europeans too.. and pro Independence movements needs to retake Europe away of Americans.

So this is why in my opinion.. the times that Russia needs to boost its economy as much as possible ,and stabilize it as much as possible to be in a good shape to face the worse case
scenarios.. but more important than anything .. Russian Government in the next days/weeks and years will need to raise the people support with the government as high as possible.  Because if an economic crisis happens and Russia have the support of its people ,they will handle it very well and people just adapt to the changes.  Ukraine fortunately does not have that support..and this is why they are doomed.. there is no way Americans will hold control of Ukraine for another decade. With a broken economy in kiev and a government pushing for a never ending war.

SO economy is all ,economy is everything ,is the soul of nations.. without it.. a country cannot exist.. so is does not help if Russia army invade Ukraine to save Donetsk and Lugank and later
they forced to retreat because no more money to continue finance the military operation.. Russia invading in full scale will also allow Poroshenko to artificially create unity in the nation against Russia.. if Ukrainians still believe the Ukrainian project and their unity with Europe is possible. . Putin needs to defeat Ukrainians mentality ,that they can live without Russia and that Europe will accept them.. or that anything good can come from US controlling their government and pushing them into a war with Russia.

chinggis wrote:thank you whir, if I am correctly understand you, BRMS-nafta is state owned company and KLO is privately owned( I can not find who is owner) but if it is correctly, then we can disable oligarch war

Graham Phillips wrote:My Message from Gorlovka

Grisha - Special Report. (# 3) Gorlovka Today - 3 killed, 2 injured children

]

Vann7 wrote:The Strelkov vs Putin report is important . for Putin Bashers to read..

Strelkov is no question a patriot.. and a great man.. but his logic is purely militaristic..
He does not knows.. all the things that are happening in Russia and Europe..

The believe that you can drive tanks to kiev ,and after overthrowing kiev.. maintain
control of Ukraine with US and Poland and EUrope Financing unrest and arming guerrillas?
With CIA /Mossad and Mi6 doing sabotage to Russia occupation to Kiev?

Not even Americans could hold control of bagdad for more than 10 years..the population
was hostile to americans.. and they were forced to leave. So it will be the same.. IF Russia
invades Kiev , there will be no less than half the population very hostile to Russia.. and
I don't think strelkov taught the possibility of Putin having to deal with Euromaidan unrest again
as Yakunovych had to deal..  i neither think strelkov taught either the possibility of a massive
retaliation of Euro Ukrainians to all etnic Russians by civilians... Risking the live of more thousands of people..  Russia will be forced to invade all Ukraine cities.. all of them..

Did Strelkvo measured the cost of such operation on Russian budget?
I don't think so... Did he ever measure the unrest on Russian cities for Russian soldiers
being killed every day in a country that majority of its people does not want them and wants to be part of Europe?


I think Putin strategy is the more logical one.. that is freeze the conflict.. and wait Ukrainians
wake up. And see that they have no future with American controlling kiev and that Europe does not wants them.  Slowly now that is happening..   once Ukraine economy completely dies
and IMF giveup loaning money and you see unrest in all Ukraine cities , not only in Donetsk and Lugansk but in all Ukraine people demanding Poroshenko to resign and many asking Russia
to restore order. only then is when the real revolution will start... weapons will start to flow to
all ukrainian cities from Russia and the Russian Army will have a clean path to kiev without
major opposition. Since people will know Russia is their only hope to return Ukraine.

Timing is the key.. and public opinion needs to change.. and Ukrainians give up their ideas to
become part of europe. Since they don't want them. Like the Polish politician told..  Russia do have the probability to take all Ukraine back.. not just donetsk and lugansk.. and without people
resisting much.. the crimean way or at least Georgian way.. they resist a few days and later stop fighting and allow RUssian tanks to drive peacefully.   Then Russia organize new election,
cancel Ukraine Fascist dictatorship constitution and restore democracy with help of United Nations ,Belarus and friendly European nations. With full representation for Ethnic Russians in Kiev parliament..

and trust me.. Russia will NOT annexe Donetsk or Lugansk ..even if invade.  Russia will need to stabilize their own economy first ,before paying the pensions of 5 millions more Ukrainians.. and restore Donetsk and Lugansk industry .. and then use Donetsk and lugansk
to lure other cities into demanding their independence too.. and only when the war is over ,
and kiev kicked from power by its own people... and public opinion favorable for Russia in most Ukraine , and when Russia economy finally strong ,only then is when Russia can start referendums for reversing Ukraine Independence if they want and turning it into an autonomous
Republic of Russia..


But is way too early for Russia annexing Ukraine.  the impact on Russia economy for doing that
will be TOO BIG for too little reward.. I think Transnistria and Abkhazia and South ossetia have bigger change to become annexed earlier than Donetsk and Lugansk.. since they have been waiting for longer to become part of Russia. But in a decade or bit more.. If Russia economy take off.. you will see Russia again with most of  Ukraine and many other regions annexed into it..  

Economy is all.. if Americans manage to isolate Russia from Europe and maintain forever a proxy war in Ukraine ,collapsing Russia economy ,not only Russia will be unable to help donetsk and lugansk. But it will also risk losing cities too..  You will see revolutions in Caucausus for independence.. etc.. a reapeat of Soviet Union collapse. This is why Russia need to carefully
measure all their actions in Ukraine with price and economic cost for Russian budget.

My prediction is there will be a world wide recession. Russia will be forced into a limited war with Ukraine by US,for small time and The Europeans lack of sovereignty and independence from Americans will force them  to nearly cut all their trade with Russia if not all of it.. including energy.  No only the mentality of Ukrainians needs to change for of the Europeans too.. and pro Independence movements needs to retake Europe away of Americans.

So this is why in my opinion.. the times that Russia needs to boost its economy as much as possible ,and stabilize it as much as possible to be in a good shape to face the worse case
scenarios.. but more important than anything .. Russian Government in the next days/weeks and years will need to raise the people support with the government as high as possible.  Because if an economic crisis happens and Russia have the support of its people ,they will handle it very well and people just adapt to the changes.  Ukraine fortunately does not have that support..and this is why they are doomed.. there is no way Americans will hold control of Ukraine for another decade. With a broken economy in kiev and a government pushing for a never ending war.

SO economy is all ,economy is everything ,is the soul of nations.. without it.. a country cannot exist.. so is does not help if Russia army invade Ukraine to save Donetsk and Lugank and later
they forced to retreat because no more money to continue finance the military operation.. Russia invading in full scale will also allow Poroshenko to artificially create unity in the nation against Russia.. if Ukrainians still believe the Ukrainian project and their unity with Europe is possible. . Putin needs to defeat Ukrainians mentality ,that they can live without Russia and that Europe will accept them.. or that anything good can come from US controlling their government and pushing them into a war with Russia.

Flagship Victory wrote:I completely agree with onwiththewar. Did Germans fight in WW2 with economy? No. Do Syrians fight with economy? No. Poroshenko makes poor Ukrainians fight, not with economy but rather with the lie that Russia is invading Ukraine. Unless NAF takes Kiev and arrest Poroshenko, don't expect this war to ever end.

We westerners are bold. If we have a cause, we do it. If we do something, we don't hide it. I guess it's a cultural thing. The US bombed the heck out of Serbia to free Kosovo from Serbian troops. If the US sees an injustice, the US will do something about it, and openly at that.

higurashihougi wrote:S3xual intercouse btw an Ukie BMP-2 and an Ukie T-64

Dunno whether pornographic pics of armoured vehicle violated the forum's rules