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The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

PapaDragon

PapaDragon: Posts : 13474
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Post n°801

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

PapaDragon Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:32 pm

For the record, I am not Russian myself (like most of you know) and this is opinion of an outsider.
That being sad...

Going over your moralistic pontifications have been quite amusing. Now let me bestow upon you some wisdom born of experience:

1) You all seem to be very eager to "do the right thing" (ROFL). While this situation might look new to you, this same thing happened before here in the Balkans.

Back then we Serbs were ready and willing to do the right thing and we did. Problem was that us doing the right thing was exactly what enemies wanted us to do. We played straight into their hand and today Serbia is a country that is being slowly, systematically and permanently erased from existence along with Serbs as people.

2) You are very concerned for safety and wellbeing of "Russians" in Ukraine. Might I ask what those "Russians" did to deserve such dedication?

Russia has been separate country for two and a half decades already. Why have they all waited this long to demonstrate their "Russian" attitudes? From what I can tell they had no problems at all rubbing shoulders with openly declared Nazis for 25 years as long as they got pat on a back and a promise of some free EU money down the road.

It's only now, when they realized that their Nazi but-buddies don't really like them, that they have rediscovered their "long lost" Russian identity, continently at the same time when Russia is no longer welfare case of the planet...

3) When Nazis on maidan were killing and burning those who disagreed with them, why haven't these "Russians" responded in kind? Why haven't they fought for themselves? Why haven't they burned and killed their "enemies"? Why wait for so long?

I guess It's always nicer when someone else fights and dies while you sit on your ass, right?

Just like those dickholes today who protest in Donetsk. If they have problem with getting shelled maybe they should do something about it. I noticed a lot of strapping able bodied men in that crowd who would look great in uniform.

4) You all seem to be in quite a hurry. Did you honestly thought that this will be over in couple of months? This thing will drag on for years and years to come.

And if West wants to keep financing Kiev indefinitely, then let them. I am sure with that cash Ukraine will become utopia in just couple of months and every little ukrop and holhol will live long easy and carefree life in the land of plenty (SPOILER WARNING: It won't...)
.........

Long story short: Russia MUST NOT do the right thing. Russia MUST do the smart thing.

150 million actual Russians depend on Russia doing the smart thing. As for others, price must be payed for complacency and egoism first, before spoils can be distributed to them.

Last edited by PapaDragon on Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

Regular

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Post n°802

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

Regular Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:09 pm

Karl Haushofer wrote:
I was VERY supportive towards Novorossiya when the war started. I wanted them to win and crush the Kiev fascists.

Now I have become just disgusted about the whole thing. For me it is not important who wins this war. I just want it to end.

X2
Ideas of Novorossiya died IMHO. This war is not about future of Ukraine or their people. It's Russian and american proxy war. Both of powers seem to do everything to achieve their goals. Russia where very cautious not to step in it, but they were pulled in eventually. By the end of the day there are no good guys. US is becoming very passive aggressive when it comes to Russia these days. It seeks conflict all the time.
And what worries me most is that US is picking up very same things why Americans hated Soviet union. Now it's the land of the free who is spying on it's own people, bullying neighbors, using ridiculous propaganda, controlling allies, implanting "comrade" governments all over the world.

sepheronx

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Post n°803

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

sepheronx Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:12 pm

What people seem to forget is that Ukraine isnt a prize. For Russia, since Soviet times and even before, and definately after, Ukraine was a burden. They were constantly needing Russian business and aid while western Ukrainians were always frothing from the mouth at how they hate the very people they rely upon. After all of this, they proved to be nothing more than scoundrals. If Ukraine splits apart, it still wouldnt be best for Russia to take them in, other than help them create new identities/countries. Ukraine as a whole is now becoming a money pit for the west. Right now west can print money to infinitum to fund Ukraine, but with recent moves like AIIB, BRICS, Eurasian Union; many countries are jumping to these opportunities and nations like Japan, US and such are being left behind. Already many EU countries joined AIIB even if they were told not to. What this all means is that these free reign printing organizations may switch hands and or may not be able to do any of that anymore, and the piper will be calling to the heavy debtors then.

Ukraine effectively destroyed their own economy and country. Regardless what west says: "Russia our friend" or "Russia our foe", they were anyways moving heavy weapons to Eastern Europe under false pretexes like Iranian nukes, and I pointed that out to daft people like AIG and CPuffs over at MP.net, but as usual, the lights upstairs were on but nobody was home. Now it has become official as to why they moved it there, but it was all words to begin with. The west will always demonize those who does not follow their tune, like they do with Iran, NKorea, China, Venezuela, etc. At this point, it is futile to listen to them or care about them. They got this idea of superiority and if you dont deal with them, you are poor and insignificant simply due to this poor ego of theirs where they think everyone wants to be "them".

Russia is also playing a silly game of trying to look innocent, to the point it is not helping them. Yes, there will be many that are sympathetic to Russia, and may garner some new business deals, but at the expense of innocense loosing their lives, is not my cup of tea. I understand why they are doing it, but I dont agree with it.

As for NATO, US and EU at Russias border, well, unless they did something really stupid like a skirmish into Russia, they wont do anything. If they did, then it could end up ending the world. They are stupid but not that stupid. They want to surround Russia so that Russia cannot project its power or be able to have its own control over its resources being transported. They tried to create seperatism in Russia but it failed, due to well, majority of the regions peoples are Russians with some exclusions like Chechnya and other North Caucuses regions.

The people of Novorussia, I fully support and if I had money, would send it. But they also need to understand that they too made a choice to stand up and ultimately, it is up to them, not Russia or anyone else, to make their stand.

Khepesh

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Post n°804

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

Khepesh Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:47 pm

PapaDragon wrote:For the record, I am not Russian myself (like most of you know) and this is opinion of an outsider.
That being sad...

Going over your moralistic pontifications have been quite amusing. Now let me bestow upon you some wisdom born of experience:

1) You all seem to be very eager to "do the right thing" (ROFL). While this situation might look new to you, this same thing happened before here in the Balkans.

Back then we Serbs were ready and willing to do the right thing and we did. Problem was that us doing the right thing was exactly what enemies wanted us to do. We played straight into their hand and today Serbia is a country that is being slowly, systematically and permanently erased from existence along with Serbs as people.

2) You are very concerned for safety and wellbeing of "Russians" in Ukraine. Might I ask what those "Russians" did to deserve such dedication?

Russia has been separate country for two and a half decades already. Why have they all waited this long to demonstrate their "Russian" attitudes? From what I can tell they had no problems at all rubbing shoulders with openly declared Nazis for 25 years as long as they got pat on a back and a promise of some free EU money down the road.

It's only now, when they realized that their Nazi but-buddies don't really like them, that they have rediscovered their "long lost" Russian identity, continently at the same time when Russia is no longer welfare case of the planet...

3) When Nazis on maidan were killing and burning those who disagreed with them, why haven't these "Russians" responded in kind? Why haven't they fought for themselves? Why haven't they burned and killed their "enemies"? Why wait for so long?

I guess It's always nicer when someone else fights and dies while you sit on your ass, right?

Just like those dickholes today who protest in Donetsk. If they have problem with getting shelled maybe they should do something about it. I noticed a lot of strapping able bodied men in that crowd who would look great in uniform.

4) You all seem to be in quite a hurry. Did you honestly thought that this will be over in couple of months? This thing will drag on for years and years to come.

And if West wants to keep financing Kiev indefinitely, then let them. I am sure with that cash Ukraine will become utopia in just couple of months and every little ukrop and holhol will live long easy and carefree life in the land of plenty (SPOILER WARNING: It won't...)

5) You have been crying your asses off over that idealistic sucker Mozgovoi. Other than empty rhetorics, hollow ideals, utopian fantasies and hypothetical moralizing what else did he bring to the table? He was good with a gun? Plenty more like that around.

At one point he actually suggested that NAF and Ukrops have the same enemy.

History is full of fanatical clowns like him and they all have one thing in common: they and/or their followers are all dead and their causes are doomed. At least Strelkov was intelligent enough to back down before he messed up. Looks like those historic reenactments payed off for him...

Long story short: Russia MUST NOT do the right thing. Russia MUST do the smart thing.

150 million actual Russians depend on Russia doing the smart thing. As for others, price must be payed for complacency and egoism first, before spoils can be distributed to them.

I ask you to withdraw your comments about Alexei Mozgovoi, which insult his memory, Prizrak Brigade and all who supported Mozgovoi and still support the ideals he was fighting for.

Flagship Victory

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Post n°805

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

Flagship Victory Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:49 pm

Werewolf wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:Belarus is itself a very small country, about the size of Israel. I don't think Maidan is scared of Belarus at all.

Did you learn geography in US?

Belarus is smaller than Iraq but larger than Israel in several times.

Israel 22.380 km²
Belarus 207.595 km²

Population wise.

auslander

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Post n°806

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

auslander Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:50 pm

PapaDragon wrote:For the record, I am not Russian myself (like most of you know) and this is opinion of an outsider.
That being sad...

Going over your moralistic pontifications have been quite amusing. Now let me bestow upon you some wisdom born of experience:

1) You all seem to be very eager to "do the right thing" (ROFL). While this situation might look new to you, this same thing happened before here in the Balkans.

Back then we Serbs were ready and willing to do the right thing and we did. Problem was that us doing the right thing was exactly what enemies wanted us to do. We played straight into their hand and today Serbia is a country that is being slowly, systematically and permanently erased from existence along with Serbs as people.

2) You are very concerned for safety and wellbeing of "Russians" in Ukraine. Might I ask what those "Russians" did to deserve such dedication?

Russia has been separate country for two and a half decades already. Why have they all waited this long to demonstrate their "Russian" attitudes? From what I can tell they had no problems at all rubbing shoulders with openly declared Nazis for 25 years as long as they got pat on a back and a promise of some free EU money down the road.

It's only now, when they realized that their Nazi but-buddies don't really like them, that they have rediscovered their "long lost" Russian identity, continently at the same time when Russia is no longer welfare case of the planet...

3) When Nazis on maidan were killing and burning those who disagreed with them, why haven't these "Russians" responded in kind? Why haven't they fought for themselves? Why haven't they burned and killed their "enemies"? Why wait for so long?

I guess It's always nicer when someone else fights and dies while you sit on your ass, right?

Just like those dickholes today who protest in Donetsk. If they have problem with getting shelled maybe they should do something about it. I noticed a lot of strapping able bodied men in that crowd who would look great in uniform.

4) You all seem to be in quite a hurry. Did you honestly thought that this will be over in couple of months? This thing will drag on for years and years to come.

And if West wants to keep financing Kiev indefinitely, then let them. I am sure with that cash Ukraine will become utopia in just couple of months and every little ukrop and holhol will live long easy and carefree life in the land of plenty (SPOILER WARNING: It won't...)

5) You have been crying your asses off over that idealistic sucker Mozgovoi. Other than empty rhetorics, hollow ideals, utopian fantasies and hypothetical moralizing what else did he bring to the table? He was good with a gun? Plenty more like that around.

At one point he actually suggested that NAF and Ukrops have the same enemy.

History is full of fanatical clowns like him and they all have one thing in common: they and/or their followers are all dead and their causes are doomed. At least Strelkov was intelligent enough to back down before he messed up. Looks like those historic reenactments payed off for him...

Long story short: Russia MUST NOT do the right thing. Russia MUST do the smart thing.

150 million actual Russians depend on Russia doing the smart thing. As for others, price must be payed for complacency and egoism first, before spoils can be distributed to them.

It is easy to advocate 'do the right thing' from behind a keyboard a thousand or ten thousand kilometers away. I have told more than one advocate from both sides that if they feel so strongly about 'the cause' then high your young ass over there, pick up an automat and have at it. Oddly, there are never any takers.

It is estimated that in our little bucolic village we have 70,000 (!) 'visitors' from up north, a pretty good number of whom are military age men. Even if you are not a warrior everyone can do something, support and logistics is as important as the line troops, one can not exist without the other. Having spoken to a few of these guests the over riding comment from them is 'we had to leave because the fighting was getting closer'. Each and every one we spoke to said they would 'go home' when the fighting was over and they would get on with their lives. Get on with their lives? By what right do they have to sit out the war and then wander on back up and continue as they were when tens of thousands of men and women have fought and died for their freedoms?

Most of the citizens of Donbas are not Russian, they are ethnic Russian. There is a difference. While VVP might have a duty to protect them, he has same duty to any citizen of any country that borders RF. To allow war on your own borders is generally considered to be not good form and RF has generally quashed any serious armed altercations in the last decade. However, VVP's duty is to protect and succor citizens of Russia first and foremost. To risk total war over Donbas is foolish and will not serve Russia or Russian Federation, ergo the method of doing what is being done for Novorossiya.

The current situation in Novorossiya is similar to last fall and January in some ways. However, at this time it is obvious that NAF are more than capable of taking care of themselves and can pretty much defeat any attempts by UAF to penetrate their holdings. What UAF is doing is trying to goad NAF or RFAF to attack them, thereby putting the onus on NAF and RFAF for violating the Minsk Agreement. UAF will attack, make no mistake, and this attack will be in the not distant future. They are not building up their forces for a tea party by any stretch of the imagination and when they are ordered to do an all out attack by their foreign masters they will do so. They will loose, The West will scream bloody murder, Mutti and the french fop will appear yet again with another Minsk deal, we will get more sanctions for hurting UAF's fist with our faces and The West and Western Media wil ignore the reality and put all the blame on VVP and RF. So be it, reality is reality. You may want to notice, though, that every time the orcs have attacked they have lost more of their occupied territories in Novorossiya. Perhaps this time they think they will do better. They are mistaken.

For the troika doom and gloom trolls (Actually it is only one troll with minimum three ID's. Word to the wise, if you want to represent yourself as different individuals do try to change your writing and diction for each personality you have), sit back and watch. I personally am reasonably sure VVP knows a little more of the situations and events than we do and so far he has played a masterful game of checking all the western efforts to have at him, Russia, RF and Novorossiya.

All this being said, it's time for a cool one (Genuine German Weissen, something we never could get here under the orcs) so I'm going to sit back and watch the fun on forum.

whir

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Post n°807

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

whir Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:53 pm

Актуальные Новости Дня wrote:Zakharchenko met with protesters in Donetsk and answered questions

Flagship Victory

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Post n°808

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

Flagship Victory Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:57 pm

whir wrote:

Актуальные Новости Дня wrote:Zakharchenko met with protesters in Donetsk and answered questions

Zackarchenko is in bad shape. Looks like he's crippled for life. He should resign if he cannot lead NAF, and let someone else take the job.

whir

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Post n°809

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

whir Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:13 pm

Flagship Victory wrote:Zackarchenko is in bad shape. Looks like he's crippled for life. He should resign if he cannot lead NAF, and let someone else take the job.

Probably it's just weakness in case he has a cicatrisation problem that is something very common in many foot injuries that require surgical proceedings, another common cause among middle aged men is the delay in the reparative phase of the bone healing that it's also consistent with his condition, so don't troll with health issues.

chinggis

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Post n°810

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

chinggis Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:41 pm

For Karl Houshofer :
These people just want the war to end. It is their homes being destroyed. It is their people getting killed. They don't give a fuck about geopolitical games between Russia and the West. They just want this war to end. If Russia/NAF is unable to drive the Kiev junta away from the shelling distance of Donetsk then they better surrender and let Kiev have Donbass.

I see on my naked eye how it is look when one side surrender. And I do not want to see it again, not hear, not there, not in Donbas, never again. I prefer more negotiation, negotiation and more negotiation than war. And you are told us something from your bottom hole because you do not know how it is looking in real world.
Every morning one home is engulfed in flames, man and women who stay and don't want to move away, just die from poisoning.
Believe me, it is hard to see if you are normal man.

Flagship Victory

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Post n°811

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

Flagship Victory Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:44 pm

chinggis wrote:For Karl Houshofer :
These people just want the war to end. It is their homes being destroyed. It is their people getting killed. They don't give a fuck about geopolitical games between Russia and the West. They just want this war to end. If Russia/NAF is unable to drive the Kiev junta away from the shelling distance of Donetsk then they better surrender and let Kiev have Donbass.

I see on my naked eye how it is look when one side surrender. And I do not want to see it again, not hear, not there, not in Donbas, never again. I prefer more negotiation, negotiation and more negotiation than war. And you are told us something from your bottom hole because you do not know how it is looking in real world.
Every morning one home is engulfed in flames, man and women who stay and don't want to move away, just die from poisoning.
Believe me, it is hard to see if you are normal man.

Maidan is fascist. You cannot negotiate with fascists. It took WW2 to beat fascists the last time.

PapaDragon

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Post n°812

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

PapaDragon Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:47 pm

Khepesh wrote:............................

I ask you to withdraw your comments about Alexei Mozgovoi, which insult his memory, Prizrak Brigade and all who supported Mozgovoi and still support the ideals he was fighting for.

Like I said, this is opinion of an outsider based on experience. And in my experience armed men with utopian or fundamentalist ideals always do lot, lot more harm than good (if any).

But, since you are someone who lives in that part of the world I will assume that you have some information on this particular topic that I do not have.

So out of respect for you I officially withdraw my comments about Alexei Mozgovoi.

I have also deleted that part of my post.

Vann7

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Post n°813

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

Vann7 Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:56 pm

This news needs more coverage.. Shocked

2 ukrainian intelligence officers defect to Donetsk and Lugansk and what they report
is nothing but staggering and mind blowing.. The war is worse than we thought..

They claim in debaltsevo alone Ukraine lost about 7,000 soldiers killed.. but Kiev only reported
~200 killed or missing.. In Llovainsk cauldron Kiev reported about 100 killed ,but in reality they lost about 2,600 ukie soldiers killed in action.. Shocked

They talk about massive rapes of womens and including children..by kiev forces and that even Ukrainian soldiers who try to quit the war are being shot. and talk about many mercenaries from Poland ,LIthuan and ROmanian that comes to fight for money in the side of kiev.

They also talk how the media totally controllev in kiev ,have help from Foreign Intelligence
Service in propaganda... how to effectively blame all that happens in Ukraine to Russia.and
keep people in Ukraine behind the government.

Alexei explained that for him, "the turning point was [finding out] that the people of Donetsk and Lugansk are being deliberately exterminated. They [Kiev authorities] do not pay attention to how many children will die. No one could have thought that such a thing could happen to our country. This is a clear policy of genocide against the people of Donbass. I consider this to be morally unacceptable, and I am not the only one."

Commenting on who is responsible for what they call genocide, the brothers noted that "the crimes against civilians are being committed mainly by representatives of the territorial battalions. This includes Aidar, Azov and Tornado. Innocent people are summarily shot, demeaned, and have their property taken from them. Women are raped en masse, including minors. There have been instances reported of conscripts who fled the battlefield being shot. Local branches of the 'Nova Poshta' [a Ukrainian delivery service] are crammed with property stolen from civilians."

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150615/1023397660.html

So if that information is correct , the loses of Ukraine army have to be in the 20,000 to 30,000
since the start of the war..And this does not include wounded people..

Last edited by Vann7 on Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

Khepesh

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Post n°814

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

Khepesh Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:59 pm

PapaDragon wrote:

Khepesh wrote:............................

I ask you to withdraw your comments about Alexei Mozgovoi, which insult his memory, Prizrak Brigade and all who supported Mozgovoi and still support the ideals he was fighting for.

Like I said, this is opinion of an outsider based on experience. And in my experience armed men with utopian or fundamentalist ideals always do lot, lot more harm than good (if any).

But, since you are someone who lives in that part of the world I will assume that you have some information on this particular topic that I do not have.

So out of respect for you I officially withdraw my comments about Alexei Mozgovoi.

I have also deleted that part of my post.

Thank you, it would be bad if we started arguments over such matters. We know who the enemy is, let us attack them only.

Flagship Victory

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Post n°815

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

Flagship Victory Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:00 pm

Vann7 wrote:

This news needs more coverage..
2 ukrainian intelligence officers defect to Donetsk and Lugansk and what they report
is nothing but staggering and mind blowing.. The war is worse than we thought..

They claim in debaltsevo alone Ukraine lost about 7,000 soldiers killed.. but Kiev only reported
~200 killed or missing.. In Llovainsk cauldron Kiev reported about 100 killed ,but in reality they lost about 2,600 ukie soldiers killed in action..

They talk about massive rapes of womens and including children..by kiev forces and that even Ukrainian soldiers who try to quit the war are being shot. and talk about many mercenaries from Poland ,LIthuan and ROmanian that comes to fight for money in the side of kiev.

They also talk how the media totally controllev in kiev ,have help from Foreign Intelligence
Service in propaganda... how to effectively blame all that happens in Ukraine to Russia.and
keep people in Ukraine behind the government.

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150615/1023397660.html

Since when does Maidan care about its own soldiers? To Maidan, its soldiers are expendable. Ukraine has 40 million people. Maidan doesn't care how many of its soldiers die. IMF pays for Maidan's ethnic cleansing. IMF is not limited how much money it has. IMF is the authority. I agree most of Maidan's soldiers are foreign mercenaries.

PapaDragon

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Post n°816

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

PapaDragon Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:05 pm

auslander wrote:.................................................

The current situation in Novorossiya is similar to last fall and January in some ways. However, at this time it is obvious that NAF are more than capable of taking care of themselves and can pretty much defeat any attempts by UAF to penetrate their holdings. What UAF is doing is trying to goad NAF or RFAF to attack them, thereby putting the onus on NAF and RFAF for violating the Minsk Agreement. UAF will attack, make no mistake, and this attack will be in the not distant future. They are not building up their forces for a tea party by any stretch of the imagination and when they are ordered to do an all out attack by their foreign masters they will do so. They will loose, The West will scream bloody murder, Mutti and the french fop will appear yet again with another Minsk deal, we will get more sanctions for hurting UAF's fist with our faces and The West and Western Media wil ignore the reality and put all the blame on VVP and RF. So be it, reality is reality. You may want to notice, though, that every time the orcs have attacked they have lost more of their occupied territories in Novorossiya. Perhaps this time they think they will do better. They are mistaken.
...............................

Agreed.

We should all remember that NAF's greatest successes have been achieved during counter-offensives.
Wait for enemy to go all-in, cut them off and then push back with full force.

PapaDragon

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Post n°817

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

PapaDragon Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:17 pm

sepheronx wrote:What people seem to forget is that Ukraine isnt a prize. For Russia, since Soviet times and even before, and definately after, Ukraine was a burden. They were constantly needing Russian business and aid while western Ukrainians were always frothing from the mouth at how they hate the very people they rely upon. After all of this, they proved to be nothing more than scoundrals. If Ukraine splits apart, it still wouldnt be best for Russia to take them in, other than help them create new identities/countries. Ukraine as a whole is now becoming a money pit for the west. Right now west can print money to infinitum to fund Ukraine, but with recent moves like AIIB, BRICS, Eurasian Union; many countries are jumping to these opportunities and nations like Japan, US and such are being left behind. Already many EU countries joined AIIB even if they were told not to. What this all means is that these free reign printing organizations may switch hands and or may not be able to do any of that anymore, and the piper will be calling to the heavy debtors then.

Ukraine effectively destroyed their own economy and country. Regardless what west says: "Russia our friend" or "Russia our foe", they were anyways moving heavy weapons to Eastern Europe under false pretexes like Iranian nukes, and I pointed that out to daft people like AIG and CPuffs over at MP.net, but as usual, the lights upstairs were on but nobody was home. Now it has become official as to why they moved it there, but it was all words to begin with. The west will always demonize those who does not follow their tune, like they do with Iran, NKorea, China, Venezuela, etc. At this point, it is futile to listen to them or care about them. They got this idea of superiority and if you dont deal with them, you are poor and insignificant simply due to this poor ego of theirs where they think everyone wants to be "them".

Russia is also playing a silly game of trying to look innocent, to the point it is not helping them. Yes, there will be many that are sympathetic to Russia, and may garner some new business deals, but at the expense of innocense loosing their lives, is not my cup of tea. I understand why they are doing it, but I dont agree with it.

As for NATO, US and EU at Russias border, well, unless they did something really stupid like a skirmish into Russia, they wont do anything. If they did, then it could end up ending the world. They are stupid but not that stupid. They want to surround Russia so that Russia cannot project its power or be able to have its own control over its resources being transported. They tried to create seperatism in Russia but it failed, due to well, majority of the regions peoples are Russians with some exclusions like Chechnya and other North Caucuses regions.

The people of Novorussia, I fully support and if I had money, would send it. But they also need to understand that they too made a choice to stand up and ultimately, it is up to them, not Russia or anyone else, to make their stand.

+1, good post.

whir

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Post n°818

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

whir Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:30 pm

sepheronx wrote:What people seem to forget is that Ukraine isn't a prize.

But indeed it is, no one put so much effort into something if it's not worth it.

Flagship Victory

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Post n°819

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

Flagship Victory Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:36 pm

Looks like Maidan's new strategy is not ground offensive but rather siege and shelling. Knowing Russia won't care as long as Maidan shells Donetsk using Pions, Maidan's goal would be to turn the people of Donetsk against NAF.

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Post n°820

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

sepheronx Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:43 pm

whir wrote:

sepheronx wrote:What people seem to forget is that Ukraine isn't a prize.

But indeed it is, no one put so much effort into something if it's not worth it.

No. The only prize for US is to control Russias flow of resources to Europe and prevent them from spreading, while for Russia, it was a buffer zone. Ukraine as it was, has been and always been, is nothing more than a poorly run, corrupt society where everyone is out for themselves. Prior to all these issues, my mother explained to me what her grandmother told her when she came from Ukraine, is that it will never amount to anything due to the diversity of the peoples mindset and will always be doomed to self destruction. She said this prior to end of soviet Union. In reality, many people have seen this and it is US attempting to take advantage of these very issues to try and cause pain to Russia and have stronger control over Europe.

Ukraine as itself isnt a prize, its what you gain through your adversary with it because of location. To hell with the people, its government, its prostitutes and its blood run soil.

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Post n°821

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

Khepesh Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:52 pm

VSN artillery conducting bombardment of upkrops to the west of Donetsk. Reported by residents of Kuibyshevsky, of which Oktyarbsky is part of. I do not doubt this sound will be welcomed....

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Post n°822

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

Rodinazombie Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:55 pm

Khepesh wrote:VSN artillery conducting bombardment of upkrops to the west of Donetsk. Reported by residents of Kuibyshevsky, of which Oktyarbsky is part of. I do not doubt this sound will be welcomed....

Any idea what type of weapons being employed yet?

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Post n°823

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

Flagship Victory Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:12 pm

Khepesh wrote:VSN artillery conducting bombardment of upkrops to the west of Donetsk. Reported by residents of Kuibyshevsky, of which Oktyarbsky is part of. I do not doubt this sound will be welcomed....

Finally a glimmer of hope. Donbas War episode IV: A NEW HOPE! cheers

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Post n°824

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

Guest Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:24 pm

Flagship Victory wrote:

Khepesh wrote:VSN artillery conducting bombardment of upkrops to the west of Donetsk. Reported by residents of Kuibyshevsky, of which Oktyarbsky is part of. I do not doubt this sound will be welcomed....

Finally a glimmer of hope. Donbas War episode IV: A NEW HOPE!

So the shelling and cold blooded murder of the Oktyarbsky residents is your definition of a new hope?

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Post n°825

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

Flagship Victory Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:37 pm

Ivan the Colorado wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

Khepesh wrote:VSN artillery conducting bombardment of upkrops to the west of Donetsk. Reported by residents of Kuibyshevsky, of which Oktyarbsky is part of. I do not doubt this sound will be welcomed....

Finally a glimmer of hope. Donbas War episode IV: A NEW HOPE!

So the shelling and cold blooded murder of the Oktyarbsky residents is your definition of a new hope?

A new hope for Novorossiya to survive. If NAF does nothing like they've been doing, then Maidan would eventually kill everyone in Donetsk.

Russia Defence Forum

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