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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    KomissarBojanchev
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:16 pm

    BKP wrote:^No, no... American. Hmm, I'm going to guess that "BKP" has a significance in Bulgaria that I was unaware of?
    Bulgarska Komunisticheska Partia Wink We left wingers are the driving prorussian political force in bulgaria, unlike the euroskeptic bourgeois neoliberals in the western EU.

    On topic; I never said they should be released, but argued that they shouldn't be executed on sight.
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    Karl Haushofer


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    Post  Karl Haushofer Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:24 pm

    [quote="KomissarBojanchev"]
    BKP wrote:
    On topic; I never said they should be released, but argued that they shouldn't be executed on sight.
    Nobody is asking for them to be executed. They should be imprisoned and if Donbass lacks the resources then Russia should help them. Send them to labor camps in Siberia or something.
    KomissarBojanchev
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:30 pm



    And let's quit this BS that treating the junta soldiers well is going to make them allies. This kind of thinking has been proven to be false many, many times before. Ukraine is as hostile to Russia as before and nothing will change that.
    Wasn't a major part of of the NAF comprised of UAF defectors? What about the 10s of thousands of draft evaders emmigrating to Russia?
    Russia and Ukraine are past the point of returning to normality. Russia and Ukraine, while being ethnically, culturally, religiously and linguistically as close as it gets, will remain enemies as long as the current generation of people are alive (=50-70 years). The West scored a major victory by making Russia and Ukraine enemies. The question is that how big share of the current territory of Ukraine will be controlled by Kiev and by Moscow.
    This doesn't have to be the case, but alas, it may very well be because of the right wing attitudes and antagonism somrade Mozgovoi constantly warned against...

    What makes you think the ukrop population is permanently antirussian? The ukrop astroturfing propaganda marches in novorossiyan cities? The truth is that the only way currently the ukraine is holding together is through reppressions. The neoliberal puppet kiev government doesn't reflect real public opinion today as the polls show, not even galicia where even there were independence protests. Keep in mind an impoverished populace, no matter how brainwashed, is easier to sway than you think. Also please remember there are 100 thousands of ukrainian migrant workers in Russia who have framily back in ukraine. They can also be used as an antimaidan tool.

    Ukrainian antagonism against Russia has alaways been relatively minor outside galicia and has only had major influence in the last 15 years and is based on completely trumped up historical pretexts created by the nazis and other bourgeois empires.

    I respect your opinion again, but for the love of God, please stop thinking about the western reactions. Let them bark. Let them hate. Let them demonize. Who the fuck cares? The only thing that matters is that who wins the war.[
    That's right. Who the fuck cares about western opinion. However our target is swaying the opinion of the central ukrainian average joe, and such acts of humanity will speed up disloyalty to the neoliberal oligrach government.
    KomissarBojanchev
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:32 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    BKP wrote:
    On topic; I never said they should be released, but argued that they shouldn't be executed on sight.
    Nobody is asking for them to be executed.
    Then what was all that cheering about the NAF sniper-judge-jury-executioner?
    Flagship Victory
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    Post  Flagship Victory Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:35 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    BKP wrote:
    On topic; I never said they should be released, but argued that they shouldn't be executed on sight.
    Nobody is asking for them to be executed.
    Then what was all that cheering about the NAF sniper-judge-jury-executioner?

    For every single one of those Maidan bastards executed, less children get murdered. Win win cheers
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    Post  Karl Haushofer Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:35 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    BKP wrote:
    On topic; I never said they should be released, but argued that they shouldn't be executed on sight.
    Nobody is asking for them to be executed.
    Then what was all that cheering about the NAF sniper-judge-jury-executioner?
    I was not the one cheering. She did obviously wrong but somehow I do understand her.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:53 pm

    Zackarchenko says yesterday's demonstration was a provocation.

    http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-live-day-484-2-soldiers-killed-2-wounded-fire-and-destruction-in-the-lugansk-region/
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:55 pm

    Cahaba wrote:I see XJ220 is still yanking chains.

    Ugh. attack

    For me, I decided it wasn't worth me posting over there.

    I'm glad somebody is carrying water over there, but I don't even go over there & read, or seldom ever.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:04 pm

    So what's happening with Minsk 2? Is there any plans for negotiation or don't they care about it?
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    Post  BKP Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:06 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    BKP wrote:^No, no... American. Hmm, I'm going to guess that "BKP" has a significance in Bulgaria that I was unaware of?
    Bulgarska Komunisticheska Partia Wink We left wingers are the driving prorussian political force in bulgaria, unlike the euroskeptic bourgeois neoliberals in the western EU.

    On topic; I never said they should be released, but argued that they shouldn't be executed on sight.
    Oh, that's funny lol1 . I forgot that just about every 3-letter combination is likely to be an acronym for something.  Well, at least I accidentally picked what sounds like my sort of organisation, judging from your description.

    Actually, though, I meant it to stand for "Bare Knuckle Polemicist," because my discussions on mp.net with many of the better-known knuckleheads often degenerated into insult contests.

    Later on I'll change my screen name to the spelled-out version so as not to confuse Bulgarian friends and others.
    auslander
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    Post  auslander Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:09 pm

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:
    Cahaba wrote:I see XJ220 is still yanking chains.

    Ugh. attack

    For me, I decided it wasn't worth me posting over there.

    I'm glad somebody is carrying water over there, but I don't even go over there & read, or seldom ever.

    Well, the trolls are pretty active here of late. Anyone taking that daily mail article as remotely true is living in another universe and yet we have almost two pages on it. Well done, trolls.
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    Post  Neutrality Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:18 pm

    So apparently there are consultations on the situation in Ukraine behind closed doors today. Is it the old Normandy 4 group or someone else?

    By the way, Europe has a much bigger problem to worry about right now: Greece. News websites are saying Greece's potential exit might have a bigger influence on other countries than initially expected. I'm guessing Merkel really wishes she didn't have to worry about Kiev too right now.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:26 pm

    auslander wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:
    Cahaba wrote:I see XJ220 is still yanking chains.

    Ugh. attack

    For me, I decided it wasn't worth me posting over there.

    I'm glad somebody is carrying water over there, but I don't even go over there & read, or seldom ever.

    Well, the trolls are pretty active here of late. Anyone taking that daily mail article as remotely true is living in another universe and yet we have almost two pages on it. Well done, trolls.

    I remember reading the article but don't remember what it was about. Embarassed

    My back (I figured out it's my ribs not my back.) are still attack

    Here in a little bit I'm going back to the doctor. cheers cry Neutral Here's hoping!
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    Post  auslander Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:38 pm

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:
    auslander wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:
    Cahaba wrote:I see XJ220 is still yanking chains.

    Ugh. attack

    For me, I decided it wasn't worth me posting over there.

    I'm glad somebody is carrying water over there, but I don't even go over there & read, or seldom ever.

    Well, the trolls are pretty active here of late. Anyone taking that daily mail article as remotely true is living in another universe and yet we have almost two pages on it. Well done, trolls.

    I remember reading the article but don't remember what it was about. Embarassed

    My back (I figured out it's my ribs not my back.) are still attack

    Here in a little bit I'm going back to the doctor. cheers cry Neutral Here's hoping!

    I hope the sawbones fixes your back and you are good as new tonight.

    The article was about some supposed UAF female sniper who executed prisoners etc etc ad nauseum as usual. Of especial note was the photos of her and hubby. Nice blue plastic work sandals, hubby, let alone no field equipment of any kind on him besides a mismatched uniform of old Sov trousers and a German surplus blouse. She had pretty nifty 'I'm going shopping downtown' boots on, a repro Sov brass belt buckle and not much else besides military trousers for kit. Anyone who has ever served will get in to the post about 5 words and understand it is bovine scatology.
    BKP
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    Post  BKP Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:52 pm

    ^Makes sense that it was just a uke frame-up. Probably easy for them to imagine such behavior because they would do so themselves just as a matter of course. They have no decency and their cause is sh*t.
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    Post  Regular Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:06 pm

    auslander wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:
    Cahaba wrote:I see XJ220 is still yanking chains.

    Ugh. attack

    For me, I decided it wasn't worth me posting over there.

    I'm glad somebody is carrying water over there, but I don't even go over there & read, or seldom ever.

    Well, the trolls are pretty active here of late. Anyone taking that daily mail article as remotely true is living in another universe and yet we have almost two pages on it. Well done, trolls.

    That article is bullshit. Especially loved commander bit. Sure there shitloads of drunkards, drugies and bomzhi ... among both sides. But commanders Very Happy... sheesh
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    Post  whir Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:07 pm

    auslander wrote:Well, the trolls are pretty active here of late. Anyone taking that daily mail article as remotely true is living in another universe and yet we have almost two pages on it. Well done, trolls
    I posted it not because of the alleged executions that can't be proven but for two small details that really need some attention like the peacemaker webpage, that is nothing more than a hit list; and the photo those anti-personnel metal flechettes fired from artillery rounds that are described as illegal according to humanitarian law.
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    Post  whir Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:48 pm

    max TV wrote:Mushroom! MUSHROOM you look! It fell that the powerful Donetsk June 16, 2015

    opasnie wrote:Gorlovka. Scrapped Mines area 6-7
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    Post  Vann7 Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:57 pm

    Is this is game changer for the planned new moldova-transnistria war front?
    It looks like Russia have a victory there in Moldova..



    Moldova govt resigns
    The Moldovan government has approved its resignation at a meeting on Tuesday, RIA Novosti reported. The decision was made after Prime Minister Chiril Gaburici, 38 resigned Friday following prosecutors’ questions about the authenticity of his high school and university degrees. During Sunday local elections, Moldova's pro-European and pro-Russian parties took roughly equal shares of the vote , Reuters said.


    I don't think Moldova can start a war against tranistria with such strong Russian support..
    and probably joining the Euro will also will not be as easy too.


    From RT tweets...  (no images)

    http://rt.com/news/line/2015-06-16/#89650
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    Post  Vann7 Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:20 pm

    Neutrality wrote:So apparently there are consultations on the situation in Ukraine behind closed doors today. Is it the old Normandy 4 group or someone else?

    By the way, Europe has a much bigger problem to worry about right now: Greece. News websites are saying Greece's potential exit might have a bigger influence on other countries than initially expected. I'm guessing Merkel really wishes she didn't have to worry about Kiev too right now.

    i Could be wrong.. but ..
    It looks like Russia have caught by the balls Americans and Kiev in Ukraine conflict.
    -The Kerry visit to Sochi ,looked like a retreat..
    -the new US parliament law demanding no weapons to Azov (it could be a PR show however
     to distance from a false flag or a major terrorist attack they will be ordered by Americans to do)
     Like use chemical weapons against Donetsk.. etc..
    -The legal Problems that the IMF will face world wide in financing Kiev if they stop paying Russia looks like painful and could end in legal problems and or losing credibility the institution to the button.. Since other countries like Greece can demand loans even if default.. if kiev can do it why we can't?  So will truly destroy the credibility of the IMF as institution. Contrary to Government Banks credibility is very important ..obvious violation of international banking laws
    like giving loans to kiev ,while in war and while default is a scandal... they will like to avoid.
    -Poroshenko building 100km trenches along Donetsk Border and asking for speeding them while his public visit previous days.. could mean he is not intending to overrun
    Rebels positions and expecting a long war..
    -and Protest more regular asking Poroshenko to Resign..
    -and More noticeable is.. the american Elite hysteria with Minsk-2.. they want the
    entire Rules to be changed of "how to solve the conflict".  Asking Russia for new referendum
    in Crimea is a trap to declare fraud and create major unrest there. It also seeks to damage Putin image..

    If my impressions are correct , then it seems that it could be in theory a good tactic for Russia to intentionally ,not allow the conflict to be solved until ukraine is 100% de-nazified,new constitution in kiev for rights for minorities and full Autonomy for Donetsk and Lugansk and allow them to have their own security and local army.. it will literary turn
    Novorosiya into a Semi independent COlony of kiev.. that will control everything locally and
    Kiev only role will be collecting taxes and a symbolical border control.

    So in theory it looks like Russia in theory all needs to do is remove all civilians from combat range zone in Donetsk and lugansk.. and just sit down and relax to drain Ukraine economy and see Americans ,IMF and Europe bleed their economies wasting billions and billions in keeping them alive .money that later will not be returned.. since kiev will collapse and more open fronts
    will start in other cities demanding independence.

    So effectively Russia have reversed the roles.. of what Americans intended to do. they wanted
    Russian Army to invade and drain Russia economy maintaining 45 millions ukrainians after they
    do a full scale army invasion... and keep fueling the violence later smugling mercenaries and weapons into Ukraine..  But what we have now?

    Russia captured Crimea and they had a working healthy economy that will counter the cost of pensions. and Only Russia needs to maintain Donetsk and Lugansk that is 3 million people while
    Americans and Europeans needs to finance and feed the rest of Ukraine about 40 millions people. So pretty much Russia can get any deal they want..and did not a need for rushing
    the conflict to be solved ,once they remove the civilians from the dangerous zones.. in Ukraine because the conflict will never be solved without Russia help..and the IMF and Americans will not be able to finance ukraine war and feed most of the nation and sustain its economy so that the nation don;t collapse. Cool

    The entire Baltics Nato exercizes,militarization and talks of preventive nuclear strikes seems
    like desperation attempts of Americans to force Russia negotiate with Ukraine..and unfreeze the
    conflict.. so they do not lose control of the country . Cool

    So US gov..
    -hey putin we will do this is you dont negotiate in Ukraine..

    putin : im busy playing hockey ..we talk later..

    -Hey putin ..we will send lethal weapons..

    putin.. no worries..

    -hey putin .. we have a new peace deal over here.. want to take a look?..

    putin.. not at all ,we backup minsk-2 in full.. and we are ready to wait as long
    as it takes for Ukraine to implement it..   Cool

    in all this Putin visiting Italy like a rock star and euro olympics in baku.. and holding international events and enjoying life. While Americans Government working hard in kiev
    to try to hold the nation in one piece and spending billions for it to not collapse. Wink

    Is a simplistic version ,but economically speaking the worse part is by far for Americans ,Kiev
    and Europe and IMF..  they need every year to supply no less than USD 15 Billions to Ukraine with the knowledge that the probabilities are very high that Ukraine will not pay them back..Oil prices are skyrocketing again.. by the way.. so sad for Russia not. and demand for gas from europe increasing.. pirat
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    Post  Erk Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:04 am



    16.06.2015 Military Report of Novorossia
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    Post  Cahaba Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:18 am

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:
    Cahaba wrote:I see XJ220 is still yanking chains.

    Ugh. attack

    For me, I decided it wasn't worth me posting over there.

    I'm glad somebody is carrying water over there, but I don't even go over there & read, or seldom ever.

    Well, I meant here, not there.  But I agree about the time.  I have preference for this site because it is more civil, whilst ironically being more tolerant and freer in speech.
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    Post  Vann7 Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:01 am


    for once honesty

    Saakashvili: Only in 20 years time Ukraine could return to GDP level of 2013 Yanukovych's Ukraine


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    Post  Cyberspec Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:08 am

    DNR will attack if Ukraine attacks Transnistria

    In the case of aggravation of the situation in Transnistria DNR army will be ready to support the forces of the Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic. This was announced to reporters in Donetsk by the Foreign Minister Alexander Kofman. Aggravation of the situation, in his opinion, is inevitable (due to the appointment of Sakashvilli as Odesa governor)

    http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201506161549-8rio.htm

    Longer report from Fort Rus
    http://fortruss.blogspot.com.au/2015/06/foreign-minister-of-donetsk-republic.html
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:00 am

    Cahaba wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:
    Cahaba wrote:I see XJ220 is still yanking chains.

    Ugh. attack

    For me, I decided it wasn't worth me posting over there.

    I'm glad somebody is carrying water over there, but I don't even go over there & read, or seldom ever.

    Well, I meant here, not there.  But I agree about the time.  I have preference for this site because it is more civil, whilst ironically being more tolerant and freer in speech.

    Here??? Literally here???

    What do they say? Kill it! Kill it with fire! attack clown Very Happy

    Grisha - Special Report. (# 7) "Let the people know - the city of Donetsk - how to live"



    Ukraine: 'Stop Yatsenyuk!' say protesters outside parliament in Kiev Published on Jun 16, 2015 Several rallies uniting over 3,000 people joined together outside Kiev's Verkhovna Rada (Ukrainian Parliament), Tuesday. The representative of trade unions, activists of the 'Financial Maidan' organisation and anti-Yatsenyuk protesters were present. Speaking at the rally, Sergei Kaplin, a member of the Ukrainian Parliament and representative of the Petro Poroshenko Bloc, demanded the resignation of Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk. His speech was listened to by other protesters, which could be seen holding banners reading "Stop Yatsenyuk! Government politics is the genocide of Ukrainians!" wrote:


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