The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

Vann7 wrote:
will not be surprised this move ,of the Rebels moving the heavy weapons even more from the frontline could be..that Russia intelligence saw the movements happening in the Donetsk Nuclear reactor.. so warned the Rebels that they could be framed of bombing the "nuclear reactors " in Donetsk if they advance..    

Along similar lines, it struck me last night that one possible reason for the withdrawal was that a UAF strike was expected and they intended to 'blur' it into being a NAF strike. With this move it makes it much more difficult for Kiev to accuse the NAF of making the first move and getting the blame. A bit of pre-emption based on intelligence.

Vann7 wrote:They are basically mentioning this ,so that in any future false
flag incident , they will blame Russia for any false flag accident with the nuclear reactors..

WTF, have you though for a moment that given current tensions between Kiev and RS is easier to blame Russia than to openly state that they're trying to prevent another episode involving RS and NPPs like: Gunmen attempting to enter Ukraine’s largest nuclear power plant.

Vann7 wrote:Ukraine already claiming Russia or the Rebels could attack their nuclear reactors..
How original them?  They are basically mentioning this ,so that in any future false
flag incident , they will blame Russia for any false flag accident with the nuclear reactors..

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150721/1024860887.html


Here is a preview of Ukraine nuclear reactors locations..



It doesn't take a genius to know their bull shit games.. and that by "coincidence "
the nuclear reactor that will show problems or they will attack and later blame Russia or the Rebels is the one in Donetsk and none close to Poland or kiev.. and why ? So that it will affect the Pro Russian cities and force people to flee to Russia.. the radiation could also split to Russia..  It looks the Americans are already preparing for their next major Mh17 stunt.. and
will not be surprised this move ,of the Rebels moving the heavy weapons even more from the frontline could be..that Russia intelligence saw the movements happening in the Donetsk Nuclear reactor.. so warned the Rebels that they could be framed of bombing the "nuclear reactors " in Donetsk if they advance..    

I will be surprised if those nuclear reactors are not destroyed by the Americans CIA if they notice they cannot hold control of Ukraine any more.. and that Russia will take control of it..if for example poroshenko is kicked from power ,and pro Russian Factions get in kiev in power.. the probabilities of "Accidents" with nuclear reactors will be very high.. They had to be already wired with Bombs by the Americans CIA.. .. like the saying if Ukraine will not be for americans will not be for anyone.


http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150721/1024860887.html

Ukraine is effectively a hostage nation.. and the factions in kiev will not mind staging
terrorist attacks as MH17 was  ,if they could win from it.. to accuse russia or rebels from it.

Hopefully Russia has made it clear to Pentagon that if there is any CIA organized sabotage to Zaporozhny nuclear reactor it would be followed with an imminent Russian nuclear strike to American continent.

A major accident in Zaporozhny could make the southern Russia and Crimea inhabitable for generations. They would just need to pick a time when the wind is blowing to east or south. If this "accident" was caused purposely it would be akin to nuclear strike against Russia. It would be a nuclear warfare.

Hopefully Russian intelligence services are up to their task. But I don't know if I trust the Kremlin enough for it to be able to prevent any such scenarios.

Anyway, if Donbass rebels can be blackmailed to withdraw using this "nuclear threat" then the West seems to have found another good way to threaten and manipulate Russia.

JohninMK wrote:

Vann7 wrote:
will not be surprised this move ,of the Rebels moving the heavy weapons even more from the frontline could be..that Russia intelligence saw the movements happening in the Donetsk Nuclear reactor.. so warned the Rebels that they could be framed of bombing the "nuclear reactors " in Donetsk if they advance..    

Along similar lines, it struck me last night that one possible reason for the withdrawal was that a UAF strike was expected and they intended to 'blur' it into being a NAF strike. With this move it makes it much more difficult for Kiev to accuse the NAF of making the first move and getting the blame. A bit of pre-emption based on intelligence.

I'm sorry to say this but you are repeating this line too much.

There is not a lie that is too big for the Western mainstream media and politicians to spin it to look like the "truth". Believe me. All of these gestures of good will are done for no purpose. They get zero publicity in the West. They are not mentioned at all. The usual blaming of Russia is the only thing you will find there.

Even if the Kiev junta used nuclear weapons against Donetsk the West would make it sound as if Russia was responsible and apply more sanctions on Russia while support for Kiev would be even increased.

Report presented but not public. Countries still have veto rights

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — The Dutch Safety Board will present the final report on the Malaysian MH17 passenger jet downing on August 10 for all countries to review, Ukrainian Deputy Foreign Minister for European Integration Olena Zerkal said at a briefing on Tuesday.

"In fact, the work on this report is already being completed and on August 10, the Dutch Safety Board should submit the final version of the report for all the countries to review," Zerkal said.

Kiev also announced that the Dutch, Belgian, Australian, Malaysian, and Ukrainian foreign ministers might meet with the UN Security Council next week to discuss the MH17 plane crash.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150721/1024873652.html#ixzz3gWlPmQYq

The future of the Ukrainian revolution will be discussed during a popular meeting which will be held by the Right Sector on Tuesday in Kiev, Dmitry Yarosh, leader of the movement, announced. He also said the Ukrainian government is incapable of carrying out real reforms.

A popular meeting which will be held in Kiev by the Ukrainian nationalist Right Sector movement on Tuesday should bring Ukrainians the prospect of further changes in their country, Dmitry Yarosh, leader of the organization, said. Earlier, the Right Sector announced it would organize a meeting at Maidan Nezalezhnosti (Independence Square) in central Kiev on July 21.

"For us, the truth is that the maidan revolution has not yet ended. The recent events in Mukachevo revealed unfinished revolution processes," Yarosh stated on the official Facebook page of the Right Sector. "We’re holding the popular meeting to give people an idea on the current state of revolution in the country. It is about the rule of the people as well as legitimization of volunteer activities, support for the volunteer movement, and reforms." "The old team which is now in power is incapable of carrying out social reforms. I’m saying about the president as well as the government and parliament," he added.

On July 11, Right Sector members exchanged fire with local police. The incident left four people killed and 14 injured, including law enforcement officers. The attackers ran away and hid in the mountains.

Right Sector supporters staged numerous protests across Ukraine, including Kiev, over the Mukachevo shootout. Activists are demanding the resignation of country’s Interior Minister Arsen Avakov and commanding police officers in the Zakarpattia Region. Four people with Right Sector insignia have been arrested in the Mukachevo shootout case.

The Right Sector was formed as a coalition of nationalist and neo-Nazi organizations at the end of 2013. The organization has played a major role in violent clashes with police, and played a key role in escalating last year's violence in Kiev which culminated in the February 2014 coup.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150721/1024875039.html#ixzz3gWur59HU

For anybody who has read this http://boec-gromov.livejournal.com/801.html which is being circulated around the networks, and makes the case that the shelling of central Donetsk on Saturday was by 125mm tank HE rounds fired from somewhere behind ukrops front line south of Peski, then I can say that it is almost certainly correct. Tanks in normal operation usually fire in direct fire mode up to 3000m with 1500m being average. Using indirect fire for HE it is 9300m, tanks btw have the necessary fire control equipment for indirect fire, but crude compared to artillery and everything is rather a guess using a map and a compass. However, driving up a slope and applying full elevation increases the range but this really is firing wild. Firing fin stabalized sub caliber rounds from a tank like this can obtain ranges about 30km or more, but of course no damage at the target end unless somebody is unlucky to get directly hit by the falling projectile. To use indirect fire mode when the target is a city is not difficult, but totally indiscriminate, and is simply an attempt to cause death and destruction for the sake of it. Reverse plotting of the fall of rounds, which the author has not done, will show that it cannot be fire from VSN tanks to the east as some false flag etc, as at least some rounds would have hit the eastern sides of buildings, and this has not occured so all the rounds were fired from the west, and to fall as they did, from a distance futher than VSN front lines. That's a ballistic computation on how the rounds fell at and how far away they would need to be fired from to hit some of the targets as they did.

Edit: This morning ukrops fired subcaliber tank round into Kuibyshevsky that went thro three apartments. This is beyond normal direct fire mode and shows ykrops simply fire blindly into the city.

The Ukrainot Line is complete. Just in time to watch the gear they have been watching move back. Still it beats paying the money to pensioners and helped out on the 'commision' front.

KIEV, July 21. /TASS/. The construction of the fortification structures in the east of Ukraine has been completed, Ukrainian Regional Construction Minister Gennady Zubko twitted on Tuesday. "The construction of fortification structures in the east of Ukraine has been 100% completed," he wrote. They have been built along the contact line in the Luhansk and Donetsk regions.

It has been reported that a total of 300 defensive works for 600 km of fortifications have been built with the use of 12,000 concrete structures. Three lines of defense have been built since the work started. Ukraine’s 20 regions were involved in the construction of the fortification structures by efforts of 5,000 construction workers with the use of 35,000 wagons of building materials.

According to the Ukrainian government, the total cost of the construction of the line of defense in the Donbas region amounted to $45 million.

On March 9, Ukraine’s President Petro Poroshenko said Ukraine was reinforcing the system of defense in its eastern regions. "We are building a strong, deeply echeloned system of fortification structures in the east," he said. The press centre of the military operation said it was planned to build two defensive perimeters "to prevent enemy penetration into Ukraine’s territory." According to the press service, it was planned to build about 1,500 kilometres of trenches and communication trenches, more than 8,000 entrenchments for heavy weapons, more than 4,000 bunkers and a 60-kilometre-long fence of passive obstacles.

1 Maidan soldier KIA 1 Maidan soldier WIA yesterday.

Khepesh wrote:For anybody who has read this http://boec-gromov.livejournal.com/801.html which is being circulated around the networks, and makes the case that the shelling of central Donetsk on Saturday was by 125mm tank HE rounds fired from somewhere behind ukrops front line south of Peski, then I can say that it is almost certainly correct. Tanks in normal operation usually fire in direct fire mode up to 3000m with 1500m being average. Using indirect fire for HE it is 9300m, tanks btw have the necessary fire control equipment for indirect fire, but crude compared to artillery and everything is rather a guess using a map and a compass. However, driving up a slope and applying full elevation increases the range but this really is firing wild. Firing fin stabalized sub caliber rounds from a tank like this can obtain ranges about 30km or more, but of course no damage at the target end unless somebody is unlucky to get directly hit by the falling projectile. To use indirect fire mode when the target is a city is not difficult, but totally indiscriminate, and is simply an attempt to cause death and destruction for the sake of it. Reverse plotting of the fall of rounds, which the author has not done, will show that it cannot be fire from VSN tanks to the east as some false flag etc, as at least some rounds would have hit the eastern sides of buildings, and this has not occured so all the rounds were fired from the west, and to fall as they did, from a distance futher than VSN front lines. That's a ballistic computation on how the rounds fell at and how far away they would need to be fired from to hit some of the targets as they did.

Edit: This morning ukrops fired subcaliber tank round into Kuibyshevsky that went thro three apartments. This is beyond normal direct fire mode and shows ykrops simply fire blindly into the city.

In the vid whir posted above your post the projectile visible is no doubt one of two things, either a tank round or a Rapier antitank round and I would go for tank round. The trajectory was very flat so the range was not that long, seven to nine kilometers at most and maybe less.

We are under a serious DOS attack in the peninsula from late Sunday night. Before dawn today until 09 and for the last few hours the net has been down more than up. TV is also down in this town except for one local station that does everything in house.

PS. This is far from the first time the orcs have used tanks and direct fire weapons against civilians and infrasturcture, it started last summer.

The continuing crumble of Ukraine's economic assets, although this started years ago it speeded up in the last 6 months. Mind you, nationalising a foreign owned asset like this, presumably with nothing paid for the shares, does not set a good precedent for any Western operation investing as they could be subject to the same treatment in the future. Meanwhile $120M interest is still due for payment in 3 days.

KIEV, July 21. /TASS/. The Security Service of Ukraine accused ex-owners of the Zaporizhia production complex of deliberate sabotage of its production potential. According to the service’s website, a criminal case under the article "sabotage" was opened. The search for accessory to "demolition of a strategic object of Ukrainian production sector" is in progress.

In June, 2015 the Supreme Court of Ukraine decided to return 63% of the company’s shares (earlier owned by Russian businessmen) to state property. At the same time, during the legal proceedings, according to the Security Service of Ukraine, "Russian owners began dismantling the elements of production equipment." As a result from December, 2014 through June, 2015 assets for more than 100 mln hryvnya ($4.5 mln) were taken out of the country. The last attempt to dismantle the equipment, according to the Security Service of Ukraine, was prevented after the decision of the Supreme Court. At the same time, the Service does not point out any specific names.

The company Rusal told TASS that manufacturing activity at the production complex was gradually shut down in 2009 - 2014 due to high electricity tariffs and outdated equipment. The total amount of losses incurred over the years amounted to more than 4 bln hryvnya ($181.17 mln). Thus, the company sells non-liquid assets, stored in its warehouses to partially offset operating costs, including paying for energy sources and taxes (Zaporizhia production complex remained the largest taxpayer in the region), wages, security, etc. "The case against the Zaporizhia production complex was initiated with severe impairments due to the fact that the plant is excluded from the list of strategic enterprises, the said article cannot be applied to it," the company said.

Zaporizhia production complex is the only producer of primary aluminum, alimuna-based master alloys and a variety of other strategically important materials in Ukraine.

whir wrote:

Андрей П. wrote:21.07.15 Morning shelling Donetsk ATO seen flying projectile

Its now on Zerohedge, so getting much needed publicity for the conflict. Over 34,000 reads so far. Some stupid comments of course but then it is ZH!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-21/stunning-footage-captures-ukraine-artillery-shell-mid-flight#comment-6336928

The withdrawl news has got to Germany!

Donbass militias started a unilateral withdrawal of military equipment from the demarcation line on Sunday. They are willing to demonstrate to the international community their readiness to implement provisions of the Minsk-2 Agreement, German TV Channel Das Erste reported. The recent withdrawal of tanks and other military equipment started by Donbass militias on Sunday shows signs of improving situation in Ukraine and may give hope for a coming resolution of the conflict, Das Erste reported. However, it is too early to speak about ultimate resolution of the Ukrainian conflict. The recent shelling of Donetsk shows that one cannot count on a speedy end to the war, Das Erste reported.

The withdrawal of weaponry is taking place in coordination with OCSE; international observers are monitoring the process.

“We hope for the same response from Kiev,” Sergey Kozlov, Chief of Staff of Luhansk People’s Militia said earlier. “We should do this in the presence of the OSCE mission, which is to make sure who is really willing to perform constructive provisions of Minsk-2 Agreement, and who […] is simulating and is engaged in fraud,” he added.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov called on Kiev to take the same step. However, Ukrainian authorities are slow in taking response measures and view the peaceful initiative of the Donbass militias as propaganda and “another round of information war, sparked by the Russian media.”

Under the February ceasefire deal, both Kiev forces and Donbass independence supporters were to remove heavy weapons with a caliber of over 100mm, creating an 18-mile buffer zone.

The DPR and LPR announced the unilateral withdrawal of their military equipment on July 18. Kiev forces have not yet received an order to withdraw their weapons.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150721/1024882115.html#ixzz3gXPtnYJ0

1 Right Sector commander died in hospital yesterday.

JohninMK wrote:The continuing crumble of Ukraine's economic assets, although this started years ago it speeded up in the last 6 months. Mind you, nationalising a foreign owned asset like this, presumably with nothing paid for the shares, does not set a good precedent for any Western operation investing as they could be subject to the same treatment in the future. Meanwhile $120M interest is still due for payment in 3 days.

You're supposing those honest businessmen from the West not susceptible to corruption can't see the benefits of increasing the privatisation assets portfolio with one stroke of a pen.

The flying projectiles hitting Donetsk this morning I think very likely TOW 2B or Javelin which are top attack projectiles. The projectiles show a non uniform trajectory common of ATGMs.

My contribution to the thread.

Slavyangrad.es published an interview with a Spanish young medicine doctor that went straight from university as a volunteer to Donbass to aid the suffering civilians.
The interview was taken in early July.

I will note down the interesting points:

- The food situation: People are not starving but there are shortages. It has improved but there is scarcity of fresh fruits and vegetables. This guy only ate canned food and ended up suffering heart problems because of that.

One of the causes that explains the delay of a Novorussian offensive was the pressing need to plant crops and harvesting. I had read some news item about people in Donetsk and Lugansk managing to get fuel and fertilizer to run the machinery and grow and harvest crops for the coming winter, so hopefully the food situation will be not so dependent on aid convoys from Russia.

On the opposite side, Ukraine may face food shortages because the plummeting of the grivna will make harder for peasants to buy seed, fertilizer and fuel. Already people are cutting down on food consumption because they haven't money to purchase anything other than essentials.

- Medical and humanitarian situation: It is bad because many doctors and medical personnel have fled. It is difficult to maintain clean the hospitals because there's lack of cleaning and desinfection products. On the bright side, supplies of medicines are adequate, thanks to aid. But at the end he comments there are little shortages of everything. Antibiotics are scarce, and for one thing, he ran out of iodine tincture for disinfecting. People with chronic sickness are doomed to die as they can't get their meds.
Elderly people also have few chances of survival. There are lot of victims due to disease, exposure and malnutrition, particularly in the countryside.


No aid is coming from Europe or the Red Cross. The doctor is bitter about the Red Cross, nothing surprising, they don't do anything. The NGO Doctors without borders meets a hostile reception as the population sees them as Western spies. Probably they are right, as it makes a good cover.

- The situation at the front: doctor has been a month at the frontlines. in Alchevsk and near Debaltsevo. Says that bullets and bombs, he got used to it, but that the worst is hunger and cold. Unfortunately, it seems the Novorussian fighters had not enough food and clothing. Nor medical supplies, it was complicated to treat wounded because there was a lack of everything. This is not good as points to many casualties and lack of proper medical care. Situation is not as bad as on the other side, but victories haven't come cheap. Further on he said on one day of early july, the militia lost 10 killed in Spartak. Everyday there is a trickle of dead.

-Ceasefire and morale: Say there was never a real ceasefire, and shelling was daily. People he talks with say they don't believe Minsk accords are good for nothing and believe war will last 2 or 3 years. I do agree with that assesment, unless there is a decisive summer campaign this year. When questioned if people can endure 2 or 3 years of wars, he says everybody is fed up, but that war is frozen, though he does believe the Novorussians do have the ability to attack and be victorious, but that for political reasons they are held back. He guesses the situation is the same in the junta side.

On a personal note he comments he really doesn't know how he can get out of this. His Russian visa expired, so doesn't know how he can cross the border and he is afraid of coming back to Spain and get arrested and face a politically motivated trial and charges of 10 years in prison, as a couple other volunteers were arrested. I guess he doesn't want to run risks until those on trial are acquited.


- More comments about the front:


He must dress in unfirom and do not draw attention as a medic as there are snipers that shoot the medical personal. He has seen foreign mercenaries: Poles, Americans and Europeans. He says Geneva Conventions are ignored and ambulances are shot up.

Lack of spares and materials lead to many improvised repairs.


- On Ukranian terror tactics: Says the main target is the civilian population. Ukrops ignore military targets even when they could engage them, and prefer to shell the civilians.. The bright side is that though the attacks on infrastructures, power and water utilities continue, the problem is not as bad as before. Interruptions of water and electricity are temporary.

It says that the bombardments are actually turning the civilians against the junta, more people enlist in the militia and the hatred towards Ukraine grows.Perversely, that's what the nazi battallions want. They want the Novorussians to fight back, so that Ukraine can cry wolf and get more international support to fight "the Russians".

- On Ukranian army vs Nazi Guard:

He says there is a big difference between regular army and fascist battallions.

Briefly, regulars (conscripts) are reluctant to fight, and know they are not fighting Russians but their brothers.

Very striking is that he comments that while he was in a town near the airport during a couple of weeks, he saw an abnormal number of enemy unexploded shells. Many Ukranian shells fail to explode, because artillerists do not place the fuses on.

He confirms that the Nazi Guard battallions shell civilians, rob, pillage systematically every town they enter and rape women. That doesn't appear in Western media.

He says that while he was in Alchevsk he observed that the Ukranian troops are victims too. He feels sorry for Ukranian army. they do not want to fight and kill, but they have blocking battallions of Nazi Guards keeping them on line. He says that Aidar batallion and regular troops fought several days, they shell and shoot at each other.

He saw it with his own eyes how the Aidar goons blew up with a mortar a BTR of the regulars in the Kirovsk front. In the airport he saw Polish mercenaries at 400 meters, flying the Poland flag.

Finally, he saws he had a lot of difficulty with the language, but while he was sick he learned more Russian. He comments in passing he has been hanging with Spaniards in Donetsk, so there are quite a few fighting with the militia, only that they are very discreet.

pravy sektor clown show live from Kiev.




feed with better view but terrible sound


most stable feed

Right Sector threatens Ukraine authorities with parallel elections

That's a pretty big crowd if you ask me. No massive amount of police force to be seen. Probably don't want to piss them off. RBK reports 3000 people.

Flagship Victory wrote:The flying projectiles hitting Donetsk this morning I think very likely TOW 2B or Javelin which are top attack projectiles. The projectiles show a non uniform trajectory common of ATGMs.

Your a fucking clown

Rally of mental defectives over, the only point in a tsunami of diarrhea is that Yarosh called for referendum on competance of government. Earlier in the day he had called Poroshenko a traitor who had made a deal with Putin.

Yarosh is insane. Nothing else to add. He also added that Donbass should be completely blockaded.

Agreement, mmmm, I think we will believe it when the orders are issued.

Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) Chairman Ivica Dacic said that the Contact Group on Ukraine managed to sign an agreement on heavy weapons pullout, but failed to make any significant progress concerning the local elections in Donbas.

MINSK (Sputnik) — Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) Chairman Ivica Dacic said on Tuesday that the Contact Group on Ukraine had reached an agreement on the procedures and schedule for the withdrawal of heavy weaponry from the contact line in contested areas of eastern Ukraine.

"The text has been coordinated, an agreement was reached on the pullout of tanks and weapons with caliber of up to 100 mm," Dacic said following a meeting of the Contact Group in Belarusian capital, Minsk. "I am expecting its verification later tonight," Dacic added.

However, according to Ivica Dacic, the negotiations ended with no significant progress made on the issue of holding the local elections in Donbas. "I told the leaders of working groups that the position of the "troika" (Serbia, Switzerland, Spain) is that this issue (local elections) is one of the key ones, together with the ceasefire and respecting the truce," Dacic said following the latest round of the Contact Group talks in Belarus capital Minsk. "Local elections fall into these key questions, as they will contribute to the stabilization and normalization of the situation, but we have not made any significant progress on this issue," Dacic asserted. Dacic added that the humanitarian and economic issues should be tackled prior to the local elections in the contested regions in eastern Ukraine, and called for resolving those issues "before the fall."

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150721/1024885517.html#ixzz3gYRHydqq