Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues
Hole wrote:Once again some dumbass "writes" an article and all gell brakes loose.
If he compares the russian transport fleet to that of Amiland he sopuld note that at least half of their fleet is also not airworthy.
) ending up in delaying or even cancel a lot of them for this reason (see Meads).
IL-76 were an huge advantage for Soviet Union: while their US equivalent i.e. the Lockheed C-141 was just a ferry plane limited to operate only on major air bases they have allowed them to move huge loads even to small front line airstrips and came back.
The An-12 should have been replaced by the An-70, a program which didn´t proceed very well do to the turmoils in the so-called Ukraine.
Quote: "In the early 80´s a decision was taken in the USSR to start design work on a medium military transport aircraft designated An-70 and its commercial derivative the An-70T; These Aircraft were to supersede the An-12 which was becoming obsolescent."
From: Antonov´s heavy transports.
The origins of the An-70 can be traced back to the mid-1970s, when Antonov Design Bureau began preliminary design work on a successor for the An-12 twin-engine turboprop aircraft.[3] The Soviet Armed Forces, by the 1980s, were looking for a replacement for the An-12 and a complement to the Ilyushin Il-76 four-engine jet transporter; in 1987, the Ministry of Defence, with a new emphasis on air mobility, specified an aircraft with a quick loading time, the ability to operate from short unprepared airfields, could carry up to 300 troops, and have good operating economy.
Last Russian An-148
As reported in the Antonov-148/158/178 group on the social network VKontakte, on October 17, 2018 in Voronezh, the first and the last passenger aircraft An-148-100E built by PJSC Voronezh Aircraft Building Company (VASO, part of United Aircraft Building Corporation PJSC - UAC) for the Ministry of Defense of Russia. This car with serial number 44-02 and registration number 61735 was the third An-148, raised in the air in Voronezh in 2018, and, apparently, will be the last aircraft of this type built in Russia.
Upon completion of the contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense for the supply of 15 specified aircraft, the further construction of An-148 aircraft in Voronezh will be frozen. Given the dubious prospects for the resumption of the construction of the An-148/158 series aircraft in Ukraine, it is likely that the aircraft that took off on October 17 with serial number 44-02 will be the last aircraft of this family to be built at all.
According to known data, of the 13 received by the Ministry of Defense of Russia to date, under the specified contract of An-148-100E aircraft, nine are part of the 8th special purpose aviation division at the Chkalovsky airfield (Moscow region), two are part of the 33rd separate of the 6th Army Air Transport and Air Defense Mixed Aviation Regiment of the Western Military District (Levashovo, Leningrad Region), and two in the 30th Separate Transport Mixed Aviation Regiment of the 4th Red Banner Army Air Force and Air Defense of the Southern Military District (Rostov Before Well).
According to the Ministry of Defense of Russia, the last two new An-148-100E aircraft under the contract of 2013 (aircraft with serial numbers 44-01 and 44-02) will arrive by the end of this year in the 390th separate transport mixed aviation regiment of the Central Military District, deployed at the Koltsovo airfield in the Sverdlovsk region. The pilots of the 390th regiment are being retrained to a new type of aircraft at the Chkalovsky airfield in the Moscow region.
Look at your own quote again. "Replacement for the An-12".
The most important capability of the An-70 was the short-field performance. And of course it should carry more troops/cargo than its predecessor.
In the end it doesn´t matter anymore. An-70 is dead.
Fatal defects: Voronezh aircraft builders from VASO fail the state, disrupting the take-off dates of the Il-112V military transport aircraft
Неустранимые дефекты: воронежские самолетостроители из ВАСО подводят государство, срывая сроки взлета военно-транспортного самолета Ил-112В
The delay occurs due to the fault of the enterprise management and due to the poor quality of the project documentation, the presence of a large number of errors in the drawings
All the terms of the long-awaited takeoff of the Il-112B light military transport aircraft, for which the state has already spent 1.3 billion rubles of budget funds, have been thwarted. It is curious that back in July last year, at the International Aviation and Space Salon MAKS-2017 in Zhukovsky near Moscow, Voronezh aircraft builders from VASO announced the takeoff of the Il-112V in the first half of 2018. But this overly ambitious calculation of the company's management failed, and now his lightweight leadership is shamefully silent about the unrestrained promise. Including about real, not fictional reasons for delays.
However, according to information from sources familiar with the situation at the enterprise, the delay in the take-off of the Il-112B light military transport aircraft occurs due to the poor quality of the project documentation and the large number of errors in the drawings. In addition, the VASO management already now faces a catastrophic problem. Namely - the manufactured body of the aircraft, as noted by sources that do not advertise themselves at the factory, has a fatal (!) Defect.
If you delve into the technical aspects of the catastrophic problem, it turns out that the fatal defect lies in the weight distribution in the center of gravity of the aircraft. If we translate technical terminology into understandable words, it turns out that the nose of the Il-112B is many times lighter than the tail. If this defect is not eliminated, the planes will simply crash upon landing. And in order to solve this problem and not to bring the test of the plane into its catastrophe, it is necessary to mount a 5-ton plate into the nose of the aircraft.
Thus, Voronezh aircraft builders from VASO are preparing a big and extremely unpleasant surprise for high state authorities from Moscow. If a 5-ton slab is installed in the nose of the aircraft, then the IL-112V's carrying capacity will decrease by these five tons, and the aircraft will be able to lift only one ton into the sky. Then the natural question arises: why does the state need such a plane with such a carrying capacity? Moreover, if its production has already spent 1.3 billion rubles. It turns out that breathtaking budget money just wasted on the wind.
By the way, more recently, VASO has stated that the flight model of a promising lightweight military transport aircraft Il-112B has successfully passed the first leak-tightness and moisture-proof fuselage at its manufacturing plant. They say that the installation work in the cockpit has been completed, and the delivery of all the basic blocks of navigation and other experimental equipment to the plant has also been completed. It can be assumed that with such information VASO has caused dust to the customer, not showing the real flaws in the project. After all, it was initially clear that the Il-112B center of gravity was incorrectly designed, and this logically led to an increase in the unnecessary take-off mass of the problematic aircraft.
For reference: the Il-112V light military transport aircraft is intended for transporting and air landing of up to 5 tons of light weapons and military equipment, cargo and personnel, for transportation of a wide range of various cargoes during commercial operation of the aircraft. In the future, the Il-112 was supposed to replace not only the An-26, which is 30–40 percent more in most parameters, but also to compete with the world transport aircraft of this class. However, mistakes, miscalculations and sins of the management of VASO, which is a division of transport aviation of PJSC United Aircraft Building Corporation, have led to the fact that we can only dream of competition. How long will these unrealizable dreams last - time will tell.
PS Recall, a few days ago the regional business publication became aware of the initiation of a criminal case under Article 160, Part 3, of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation regarding an unidentified group of persons of the Voronezh Aircraft Building Company (VASO). Currently, the apartments of individual employees of the company are searched. The press service of VASO has not yet commented to our publication on the fact that a criminal case has been opened against an indefinite number of persons from among the employees of the locomotive of the regional industrial complex.
No GarryB, no, I ignored not what aircraft has a chance and what not. I just analyzed it:
- Exposing the reality of the Russian Armed forces almost coincident with the successful Russian aircrafts:
https://www.russiadefence.net/t4312p225-russian-transport-aircraft-fleet-vta#212784
- Exposing the recent and current reality of the Russian civil market and in which cathegories is the real demand:
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7684p75-utility-auxilliary-aircrafts-in-ruaf#234643
- Exposing the reality of the size cathegories that are failing for the different roles, with references to the different cases that succeed not:
https://www.russiadefence.net/t4312p75-russian-transport-aircraft-fleet-vta#189143
To note that most of these projects had nice plans that have not been becoming real, and to note that many of these projects are of companies included in the United Aricraft Corporation, but it made not them successfull.
- Exposing also the list of projects with good prospect, which development would be most important in order to complete the current new generation of Russian armament and equipment of the first quarter of the XXI century, in adition to the Mi-38, Yak-152 and the rest of successfull projects of the generation:
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7032-state-armament-program-2018-2027#204557eehnie wrote:Ka-60/62 (in the Che-22 10th size class with around 2.5 tons payload)
Tu-330 (in the Tu-204/214 5th size class with around 40 tons payload).
Mi-46/AHL (in the An-72/71/74 7th size class with around 15 tons payload).
Il-106/PTS Ermak 80 (in the An-22 3rd size class with around 80 tons payload).
Il-276 (in the An-10/12 6th size class with around 20 tons payload).
PTS Ermak 160 (in the An-124 2nd size class with around 160 tons payload).
Tu-304/Frigate Freejet (in the Il-62 4th size class for double configuration: 1 mid passenger capacity + long range, 2 high passenger capacity + mid range).
New Aircraft (in the Il-76/78 Be-A50 4th size class with around 60 tons payload).
CRAIC CR929 (in the Il-86/80/96 3rd size class for high passenger capacity + long range).
Ka-40 Minoga (in the Ka/27/28/29/31/32/35 9th size class with around 5 tons payload).
New Helicopter (in the Mi-26/27 6th size class with around 20 tons payload.
MS-21/Yak-242 (in the Tu-204/214 5th size class for mid passenger capacity + mid range).
- Exposing the list of projects of the successfull categories that would be redundant at this point, but have the option of becoming the basis for future developments of the future generation of Russian armament and equipment of the second quarter of the XXI Century:
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7032p50-state-armament-program-2018-2027#213501eehnie wrote:Tu-334 (airliner aircraft in the Su-SJ-100 6th size class)
Tu-230 (transport aircraft in the An-10/12 6th size class)
Ka-102 (helicopter in the Mi-6/10/22 7th size class
Ka-92 (helicopter in the Ka-27/28/29/31/32/35 9th size class
Ka-90 (helicopter in the Ka-27/28/29/31/32/35 9th size class
Mi-X1 (helicopter in the Ka-27/28/29/31/32/35 9th size class)
Mi-54 (helicopter in the Mi-Ansat 11th size class)
Ka-118 (helicopter in the Ka-226 12th size class)
At this point the alone aircraft in the successfull categories which development I do not consider conceptually oriented to a modern demand would be the Be A-40/42. And as consequence, in my opinion, is the most likely to fail definitely.
The difference between the number of not successfull projects in the size categories marked as successfull and unsuccessfull for every main role is really big.
- And finally exposing the consequences of the weakest politically influenced contracts:
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7032p125-state-armament-program-2018-2027#234248
Nothing of this is casual, and the Il-112 and the TVS 2DTS have strong market trends against that the gouvernment of Russia is not forced to break entering very likely in economic loses, when they have at this point an alternative offer of competent helicopters that are prefered by the markets and by the Russian Armed Forces. The helicopters have their own flaws for combat purposes, but as small airliner or transport auxiliary aircrafts are stronger in overall terms.
Taking into account the new projects with good prospect, the gouvernment of Russia has also the option of placing the production of some new aircrafts and helicopters in the factories that today need better options to produce, without affecting to the natural replacement succession of the models produced in other factories (as example it would be logical to assign to VASO Voronezh the production of he CRAIC CR929 as successor of the Il-86/80/96):
- Beriev Taganrog (Aircrafts): Several options, Tu-330, Il-106/PTS Ermak 80, Il-276, Tu-304/Frigate Freejet.
- UZGA Yekaterinburg (Helicopters): Mi-46/AHL for Russian and other export markets.
- Aviakor Samara (Aircrafts): Several options, Tu-330, Il-106/PTS Ermak 80, Il-276, Tu-304/Frigate Freejet.
And very likely Russia will need to find new factories to produce UAVs (including combat UAVs).
eehnie wrote:Looking at the reserve of conceptually modern auxiliary aircrafts it is possible to see how Russia would be able to afford the total decommission of the An-22, the Mi-6/10/22 and all the conceptually outdated aircrafts:
An-72/71/74 (actually small number of units in the reserve)
An-24/26/30/32 (actually important number of units in the reserve)
L-410 (actually important number of units in the reserve)
An-148/158/178 (actually no reserve)
An-140 (actually no reserve)
An-2/4/6 (actually important number of units in the reserve)
L-39 (actually no reserve).
Mi-6/10/22 (actually reserve exhausted, out of active service and pending total decommission)
An-22 (actually reserve exhausted)
The use of the units of these models is being priorized in order to keep longer the mechanical reserve of other models conceptually more modern, delaying its exhaustion.
The consequence is to accelerate instead the total exhaustion and decommission of the cited models. In the short-term, it means repair works for the return to active service of all the recoverable units. In the mid-term, it means fast decline in the number of units, until the total decommission.
At this point, the Russian Armed Forces finished not still the process of reduction of the fleet of auxiliary aircrafts after the end of the Soviet Union. Russia can absorb the total decommission of all these models, only with a reduction of the reserve fleet of auxiliary aircrafts of the Russian Armed Forces. In the short term, it means lower use of the conceptually modern models, even increasing the number of units in the reserve. In the mid-term, it means repair works for the return to active service of the necessary number of units to absorb the decline in the numbers of the conceptually outdated models and its total decommission by 2025 for the models marked in pink and by 2030 in the models in black.
The rythm of production of new auxiliary aircrafts only will increase in the late 2020s, when more of the new models become available.
GarryB wrote:See the thing is that it does not ring true... in fact my bullshit alert is ringing loudly.
If you are designing something and you find a fundamental flaw in the design like the one they suggest... WTF is the point of completing the prototype if it uses a flawed design?
Why put ballast anywhere just to get it flying?
The goal is to get a prototype of a plane that will actually fly built so it can be tested... not get this particular prototype flying... if there is a flaw in the fundamental design you fix the bloody thing... you don't put a bow on it and pretend there is nothing wrong.
Kinda makes me call bullshit on this whole story until we hear more to be honest.
And you can call it a simple cheap unnecessary aircraft all you want Eehnie, but at the end of the day there are a lot of An26s in service doing lots of jobs that bigger aircraft are just not suited to do... They will need something to replace them and the Il-276 will be too big for most jobs.
If three of your mates need a ride home from the pub you get a taxi, which might be a car or a mini van... it wont be a full sized bus... because it is simply not practical to wait until there are enough people wanting to go home to fill the bus to make it worth the trip.
- The last line says: "To be continued." In 2014, once again took up the plane, the Russian president confirmed that the IL-114 is needed.
- In 2010, we stopped work on this car, in 2014, the Defense Ministry again said - “the plane is needed”, issued a new technical task.
We believe that the navigator is not needed in principle on this plane, the co-pilot can easily cope with its functions. But the army thinks differently. The answer here is simple: military transport aircraft are constantly on business trips. Nobody is waiting for them anywhere, so every person in the crew is worth its weight in gold — one job to do, another, run down to the control tower, organize refueling, etc.
The aircraft is in mass production in Voronezh, in parallel with the IL-112. By the end of 2019 we plan to deliver the first experienced aircraft. We offer airlines a 380-seat option, but there are customers who say, “Let's get 420!” But we believe that passengers at long distances should be comfortable.
Initially, the order was for 1,500 aircraft, it was going to replace the An-24, Yak-40 and Tu-134.
George1 wrote:The last two aircraft An-148-100E Russian Aerospace Forces entered the 390th Aviation Regiment
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3498785.html
Two An-148 aircraft were delivered to the Central Military District. They will be based in Yekaterinburg.
The aircraft came to replace the old Tu-134.
With the roar of the engines, the An-148 aircraft is landing. At the airport he was met by the military. Following land another plane. Both cars of the latest modification 100E, assembled at the plant in Voronezh. At the disposal of the transport aviation regiment of the Central Military District, instead of having served their Tu-134, they were received as part of the implementation of the State Defense Order.
“The plane meets all modern requirements. He will carry out the tasks of transporting the command personnel of the Central Military District, the 14th Air Defense Air Force Army, and delivery to the areas of destination according to the assigned tasks, ”the commander of the 32nd separate transport mixed aviation regiment of the Central Military District said
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