The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

After viewing overhead cams of the events of Monday, my conclusion is the whole thing was a charade, a carefully planned theater show. By whom I don't know, but there was no serious or even quasi serious attempt to breach the police lines.

There has been no movements of the thug 'brigades' in the combat areas of Novorossiya as of early this morning to go to Kiev to aid their beleaguered comrades in Kiev. The bombardment guns have largely fallen silent and so far our children will be in school this year, not in the basements. Infrastructure is being repaired at breakneck speed in both republics for the coming winter. Food stocks and other necessities are being stockpiled rapidly. Of minor interest is apparently some of the visitors in this little village have been told that while they are welcome to return home when hostilities finally cease they can not expect and will not be allowed to pick up where they left off in their questionable business and cultural practices.

What has brought about this sudden sea change? NAF are still on high alert. UAF is still moving units and hardware to the lines. Minsk is dead to all intents and purposes. UAF can attack at any time but so far has not. Economic turmoil is spreading around the world, oil prices are fluctuating (with possible damage to the Russian economy) and EU is suddenly faced with a massive influx of migrants among whose crowds are interspersed a good number of young men whose intentions are suspect. EU is also facing increasing economic turmoil and monetary drains to succor these literally hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants while on the other hand no one seems to be interested in stemming the tide.

I think it's going to be an interesting ride over the next six or so months and in the end I think we're going to see some changes of global import.

auslander wrote:
What has brought about this sudden sea change?

That finally the EU ,lead by Germany and France have given an Ultimatum to Poroshenko
that is needs to Implement Minsk-2.. at Any Cost and that he have no other choice..


What proof i have that his is the case?

Because i don't think Neither Germany or France will summon Poroshenko  but not Putin for nothing. And that i don't think they will have waiting for so many months ,with so many
civilians killed ,for nothing.. and because they know that if.. Ukraine is allowed to continue
provoking Russia into a war ,sooner or later with the help of Americans will get it.. and it could
lead into a major war in Europe.. that will drag Poland , Lithuane ,Romania and americans, the most Rusophobic nations.. and or possibly Turkey. Germany and France knows Ukraine will disband if they do nothing and a major crisis of MILLIONS of refugees far more worse will start.. with Ukrainians fleeing the country.. and if that was not bad enough ,the Transit of Gas from Ukraine will be interrupted. Something that will affect many European nations and Russia economies.

SO .. i see no reason why Germany and France will NOT pressure Poroshenko with Sanctions or break of Economic relations if they dont implement Minsk 2. Even IF americans oppose the cease of fire that benefit Russia. There is too much to loose for Europe ,if they allow kiev and americans to do what they want.. and allow them to pull Europe in the conflict against Russia. Which is exactly what Ukraine and Americans are trying to do.  

So as long France and Germany with most of Developed Countries in Europe stand firm..
with Minsk-2.. there will be no way in hell for Ukraine or Americans to sabotage it.. Whether
Poroshenko is overthrow or not doesn't matter.. Even if the Right Sector comes to power ,they will need to implement Minsk-2.. there is no choice..  This is true IF France and Germany stand firm and demand it at any cost Even if that means breaking relations with Americans.. and this is because is much better that.. than to allow Americans create the conditions for a world war 3,that could escalate with nuclear weapons.   All that is needed for that is Americans to start supplying Cruise Missiles Tomahawks to Kiev and the nazis lead by the CIA start firing them against moscow city..   Naturally such major cowardice attack will not go Unpunished and not only Russia will retaliate Ukraine but Americans too. including tactical nuclear weapons.. if Germany and France allow Ukraine and americans to get their way.. it will be easy for them to provoke Russia into a world war 3.

So i choose to believe that France and germany and most of Europe are not idiots and they clearly see the very dangerous games Americans are playing in Ukraine against Russia. and that it could end Really bad.. So this makes me conclude France and Germany will not allow Ukraine or anyone in kiev to avoid Minsk-2. . it will be not an option.. and that they will use Any Tool ,any tactic ,any power capabilities they have to FORCE anyone in kiev with Power to end the war against ethnic Russians and start real reforms in kiev ,to give autonomy eastern ukraine..  

France and Germany with most of Europe, have near unlimited options to pressure Ukraine to implement Minsk-2.. but Kiev have zero options to resist that.. and americans have zero excuses to not support Minsk-2. Which majority of europe support. and is backed by United nations resolution.. so is an international law ,that can be legally enforced by military means by Europe with Russia help.

It will be impossible for Ukraine to retreat from minsk-2..no matter which Rusophobic faction is in power and Poroshenko kicked.  unless of course they provoke Russia first into a open war with Ukraine.. by attacking Crimea or Russian cities. But something like that will cross a red line
with Europe.. and could get Europe more closer to Russia. and for example push for a military peaceforce under UN ,to use force to force Ukraine implement Minsk-2..  

Interestingly Russia also have ways to pressure Ukraine to implement minsk-2.. it can start arming pro Russians in other cities too and create more revolutions.. with the popularity of Porosehnko and Right Sector in kiev.. of 2% ,it will not be hard for Russia to start a new front
in Kharkiv ,another in Mariupol and in more cities.. But that will be the last option for Russia..
because if americans see they will lose total control of Ukraine ,they will start destroying it..so Russia later needs to spend a fortune helping rebuilding it.. and feeding 40 millions of people..

What is even more interesting in all this.. if that Americans are taking a big Risk of not only losing the control of Ukraine but of Europe too.. if they continue pushing a war there. For not taking into account European interest and pushing them into a war with Russia.  The Whole leadership of Americans in the world is at risk..and the very existence of NATO , if they push too much in Ukraine into start a major war and annoy too much Europe with the violence they provoking there. This of course is good news for Russia..  

So this sea of change, all looks like is a major new pressure of Europe on Kiev to implement
minsk-2 and US congress financed nuland nazis and Euromaidans activaded to protest against it. People need to pay attention to US navy in Odessa.. or any potential naval confrontation from Ukraine against Russia.  the last time the Mh-17 was shut down American had aegis warships near that place monitoring Ukraine airspace according to Veterans Today website.

A full scale revolution in all Ukraine in all cities , not necessarily could be good thing..
if for example ukraine ends totally destroyed ,all business looted ,including its nuclear reactors destroyed and Russia later left alone having to feed 40 millions of Ukraine and help evacuate them and provide refuge... Americans could still say.. if Ukraine will not be ours..will be of no one..and simply destroy it.. just to at least damage more Russia economy.  But this is not conspiracy.. is already happening in Donetsk and Lugansk.. Pro American forces in Ukraine are bombing anything of value for life to exist in Donetsk and Luganks. Bombing Power stations ,water stations ,Business ,Churches ,Sport facilities ,hospitals and schools.


Ideally Poroshenko will just get rid of the CIAnazis in power in ukraine and reverse the coup restoring democracy and peace with Russia. or if he can't do that.. at very least he should flee Ukraine to Russia and tell the world How USA is pushing them into a war with Russia..or how they want the war to continue , things like that will truly damage US image in the world and put them into corner and retreat from the ukraine conflict. it will end western narrative of Russia
being an aggressor and reveal the truth in the world of who is creating problems there.

auslander wrote:After viewing overhead cams of the events of Monday, my conclusion is the whole thing was a charade, a carefully planned theater show. By whom I don't know, but there was no serious or even quasi serious attempt to breach the police lines.

There has been no movements of the thug 'brigades' in the combat areas of Novorossiya as of early this morning to go to Kiev to aid their beleaguered comrades in Kiev. The bombardment guns have largely fallen silent and so far our children will be in school this year, not in the basements. Infrastructure is being repaired at breakneck speed in both republics for the coming winter. Food stocks and other necessities are being stockpiled rapidly. Of minor interest is apparently some of the visitors in this little village have been told that while they are welcome to return home when hostilities finally cease they can not expect and will not be allowed to pick up where they left off in their questionable business and cultural practices.

What has brought about this sudden sea change? NAF are still on high alert. UAF is still moving units and hardware to the lines. Minsk is dead to all intents and purposes. UAF can attack at any time but so far has not. Economic turmoil is spreading around the world, oil prices are fluctuating (with possible damage to the Russian economy) and EU is suddenly faced with a massive influx of migrants among whose crowds are interspersed a good number of young men whose intentions are suspect. EU is also facing increasing economic turmoil and monetary drains to succor these literally hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants while on the other hand no one seems to be interested in stemming the tide.  

I think it's going to be an interesting ride over the next six or so months and in the end I think we're going to see some changes of global import.

There's no change, in fact the whole ploy was on since Debaltsevo. Only this time someone went actually on and threw the bomb. There's also a direct relationship between the recent string of articles regarding how politicians are blocking the military from reconquering Donbass and reorganization of the UA army. It's just a way to mop up the remaining Maidan loose ends and have a quieter Rada while Porkoshenko attemps to save face. Ukraine has made bombastic declarations regarding how they're going to win this and that and repel Russian agression. The issue is that they have less air time so far because of the way Russia is playing tit for tat. Another big development is that the Brent is going back up. This means the choice has been made to stop the price war among oil producers. This because most of the MENA despots need money for their budgets and adventures (dollar peg). This means bad days for Ukraine is the bbl goes back to 65/70 then Russia will get back enough funds to keep this going UNTIL there's no government that would stem out of Maidan.

Last year we were promised Russia to crumble and "Separatists" to go back home in coffins. This year we're promised that Russia will crumble and "Separatists" will go home in coffins, again. You see the sequence here?

For the rest there's no flood of refugees. As a matter of fact, Russia in a year has gotten twice as much refugees that the whole European Union. Don't get fooled by the propaganda. The recent flux is due to Turkey that is manipulating the border area with Iraq and Syria and releasing immigrants to Greece. Italy recieves from Libya as much as Germany is pretending to have this last two years, in half a year. Spain has big issues with immigrants in Ceuta and Mellila.

There's no monetary drain actually the only risk is that most of these guys want to go to Germany and Britain. Which both countries flatly refuse. That's why you have this situation. Were they only deciding to stay illegal immigrants and roam Italy and France you wouldn't have no trouble. You know Southerners deserve this etc...

This crisis is actually showing fully the propaganda war going on AMONGST the EU members. You even find the British Press (and sewer press) backing Germany, which they usually don't do because they are both targets of this avowed immigration. What I said during the Greek crisis is patent here. There is a divide in Europe and it has become so because of the fact that the EU members let Germany tailor the EMU and subsequent treaties. They all thought this was going to be beneficial, but they were wrong. Now that the EU needs solidarity, the masks fall down. It would be comical if it wasn't true.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

auslander wrote:After viewing overhead cams of the events of Monday, my conclusion is the whole thing was a charade, a carefully planned theater show. By whom I don't know, but there was no serious or even quasi serious attempt to breach the police lines.

There has been no movements of the thug 'brigades' in the combat areas of Novorossiya as of early this morning to go to Kiev to aid their beleaguered comrades in Kiev. The bombardment guns have largely fallen silent and so far our children will be in school this year, not in the basements. Infrastructure is being repaired at breakneck speed in both republics for the coming winter. Food stocks and other necessities are being stockpiled rapidly. Of minor interest is apparently some of the visitors in this little village have been told that while they are welcome to return home when hostilities finally cease they can not expect and will not be allowed to pick up where they left off in their questionable business and cultural practices.

What has brought about this sudden sea change? NAF are still on high alert. UAF is still moving units and hardware to the lines. Minsk is dead to all intents and purposes. UAF can attack at any time but so far has not. Economic turmoil is spreading around the world, oil prices are fluctuating (with possible damage to the Russian economy) and EU is suddenly faced with a massive influx of migrants among whose crowds are interspersed a good number of young men whose intentions are suspect. EU is also facing increasing economic turmoil and monetary drains to succor these literally hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants while on the other hand no one seems to be interested in stemming the tide.  

I think it's going to be an interesting ride over the next six or so months and in the end I think we're going to see some changes of global import.

There's no change, in fact the whole ploy was on since Debaltsevo. Only this time someone went actually on and threw the bomb. There's also a direct relationship between the recent string of articles regarding how politicians are blocking the military from reconquering Donbass and reorganization of the UA army. It's just a way to mop up the remaining Maidan loose ends and have a quieter Rada while Porkoshenko attemps to save face. Ukraine has made bombastic declarations regarding how they're going to win this and that and repel Russian agression. The issue is that they have less air time so far because of the way Russia is playing tit for tat. Another big development is that the Brent is going back up. This means the choice has been made to stop the price war among oil producers. This because most of the MENA despots need money for their budgets and adventures (dollar peg). This means bad days for Ukraine is the bbl goes back to 65/70 then Russia will get back enough funds to keep this going UNTIL there's no government that would stem out of Maidan.

Last year we were promised Russia to crumble and "Separatists" to go back home in coffins. This year we're promised that Russia will crumble and "Separatists" will go home in coffins, again. You see the sequence here?

For the rest there's no flood of refugees. As a matter of fact, Russia in a year has gotten twice as much refugees that the whole European Union. Don't get fooled by the propaganda. The recent flux is due to Turkey that is manipulating the border area with Iraq and Syria and releasing immigrants to Greece. Italy recieves from Libya as much as Germany is pretending to have this last two years, in half a year. Spain has big issues with immigrants in Ceuta and Mellila.

There's no monetary drain actually the only risk is that most of these guys want to go to Germany and Britain. Which both countries flatly refuse. That's why you have this situation. Were they only deciding to stay illegal immigrants and roam Italy and France you wouldn't have no trouble. You know Southerners deserve this etc...

This crisis is actually showing fully the propaganda war going on AMONGST the EU members. You even find the British Press (and sewer press) backing Germany, which they usually don't do because they are both targets of this avowed immigration. What I said during the Greek crisis is patent here. There is a divide in Europe and it has become so because of the fact that the EU members let Germany tailor the EMU and subsequent treaties. They all thought this was going to be beneficial, but they were wrong. Now that the EU needs solidarity, the masks fall down. It would be comical if it wasn't true.

Think you are too optimistic on the oil price and its effect in Ukraine. It is up slightly at the moment but the current trend is still down which is good for the EU but not Russia.

Yes, Russia has taken more refugees but in general they are people they need, speak Russian, are the same ethnically and usually educated. This is not the case in the EU where the refugees are the opposite, don't speak the language, completely different ethnically and not educated or skilled. They are definitely not needed or wanted. This is causing big and growing problems, even threatening basic EU structures like Schengen. It is a big political problem here and the thought of UKrainians heading west due to a full blown civil war is just not in the plan.

JohninMK wrote:
Think you are too optimistic on the oil price and its effect in Ukraine. It is up slightly at the moment but the current trend is still down which is good for the EU but not Russia.

Yes, Russia has taken more refugees but in general they are people they need, speak Russian, are the same ethnically and usually educated. This is not the case in the EU where the refugees are the opposite, don't speak the language, completely different ethnically and not educated or skilled. They are definitely not needed or wanted. This is causing big and growing problems, even threatening basic EU structures like Schengen. It is a big political problem here and the thought of UKrainians heading west due to a full blown civil war is just not in the plan.

The oil price is down because the global economy is down so we don't need as much oil. The downturn in the global economy effects the EU, Russia is more robust as oil exports are not so important as the western propaganda likes to make out, Oil & gas does not count for over 50% of state revenues as it has been claimed, but only 27.4%. Top revenue bringer is instead payroll taxes. http://www.awarablogs.com/putin-midterm-interim-results/

The refugees from Ukraine are a logistical nightmare, but most of them will be happy to go home once the fighting stops and rebuilding starts, so it's only medium term problem. The EU refugee problem is tearing the place apart, did the US set them up for this? I can't believe they wouldn't have foreseen/modeled the problem, every war creates a refugee crisis to some degree, since civilization began.

Maidan APC collided with a car in Mariupol today. Fatality. That's what Mariupol people deserve for loving Maidan and hating Russia.

Whats this fucking idiot still doing here??

You guys justified how its okay to cheer ukie soldiers losses, are you going to okay his cheering at civilian deaths now too????

Rodinazombie wrote:Whats this fucking idiot still doing here??

You guys justified how its okay to cheer ukie soldiers losses, are you going to okay his cheering at civilian deaths now too????

I reported him. And blame me for the + rep he got as my fat finger gave it to him (issue with using smartphones for this site set to classic view).

Flagship Victory wrote:Maidan APC collided with a car in Mariupol today. Fatality. That's what Mariupol people deserve for loving Maidan and hating Russia.

Pls ban that idiot. Cheering people deaths is not I want to look at...

Inetwarrior wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:Maidan APC collided with a car in Mariupol today. Fatality. That's what Mariupol people deserve for loving Maidan and hating Russia.

Pls ban that idiot. Cheering people deaths is not I want to look at...

Western people like me are not merciful toward our enemies, regardless of military or civilians. You Russians can learn a lesson from us

Mariupol is no Donetsk. The people of Mariupol have always been against Russia.

If you see what the west has done to Serbia, making it small and landlocked, you realize how cruel western people are.

sepheronx wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:Whats this fucking idiot still doing here??

You guys justified how its okay to cheer ukie soldiers losses, are you going to okay his cheering at civilian deaths now too????

I reported him. And blame me for the + rep he got as my fat finger gave it to him (issue with using smartphones for this site set to classic view).

That's OK, mistakes happen. Mods, don't think I've ever pushed for a ban but this time he's gone a bit over the line. This Jekyll-Hyde deal should be terminated IMHO.

Auslander

If you say killing civilians is bad, this is exactly what NAF did today. NAF killed 2 civilians in an ambush in Lugansk area.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34128085

Civilians today could be soldiers tomorrow. Civilians today could be shooting at you tomorrow. This is war. There are only two sides. Anyone who lives in Mariupol today is a hater of Russia, else he or she would have moved. All enemies are fair game. Civilians die in every war. This is the sad reality of war.

Flagship Victory wrote:If you say killing civilians is bad, this is exactly what NAF did today. NAF killed 2 civilians in an ambush in Lugansk area.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34128085

Civilians today could be soldiers tomorrow. Civilians today could be shooting at you tomorrow. This is war. There are only two sides. Anyone who lives in Mariupol today is a hater of Russia, else he or she would have moved. All enemies are fair game. Civilians die in every war. This is the sad reality of war.

Military spokesman Andriy Lysenko said the two people killed on Tuesday were both civilians taking part in an anti-smuggling operation north-east of Luhansk, on the demarcation line between rebel-held and government areas, AFP reported.

Six soldiers were among the wounded, officials said.

Two "civilians" participating in an operation are called cops, ergo SBU in this case supported by Soldiers. No civilian was killed. First time I see civilians participating in an operation that aren't translators...please shut up.

Flagship Victory wrote:

Inetwarrior wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:Maidan APC collided with a car in Mariupol today. Fatality. That's what Mariupol people deserve for loving Maidan and hating Russia.

Pls ban that idiot. Cheering people deaths is not I want to look at...

Western people like me are not merciful toward our enemies, regardless of military or civilians. You Russians can learn a lesson from us

Mariupol is no Donetsk. The people of Mariupol have always been against Russia.

If you see what the west has done to Serbia, making it small and landlocked, you realize how cruel western people are.

Speak for yourself, not the rest of us.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Military spokesman Andriy Lysenko said the two people killed on Tuesday were both civilians taking part in an anti-smuggling operation north-east of Luhansk, on the demarcation line between rebel-held and government areas, AFP reported.

Six soldiers were among the wounded, officials said.

Two "civilians" participating in an operation are called cops, ergo SBU in this case supported by Soldiers. No civilian was killed. First time I see civilians participating in an operation  that aren't translators...please shut up.

Civilians also fight. Civilians also kill. Right Sector and OUN in Ukraine. Shabiha in Syria. Basij in Iran. These are all fine examples.

The fact remains. The civilians of Mariupol and Avdiivka work for Maidan, build arms for Maidan. And they do so at their own accord. That makes them legitimate targets of NAF.

Flagship Victory wrote:If you say killing civilians is bad, this is exactly what NAF did today. NAF killed 2 civilians in an ambush in Lugansk area.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34128085

Civilians today could be soldiers tomorrow. Civilians today could be shooting at you tomorrow. This is war. There are only two sides. Anyone who lives in Mariupol today is a hater of Russia, else he or she would have moved. All enemies are fair game. Civilians die in every war. This is the sad reality of war.

Stop reading the BBC ffs.
They are rabidly anti-Russian, and never have anything good to say about anything Russian or seperatist.
They ignore entirely the civilians killed by the Ukrainian army as if they're not real people. If they are forced to report on something that happens, they ensure they either muddy the waters, or twist and insinuate that somehow Russians or seperatists are probably to blame.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:If you say killing civilians is bad, this is exactly what NAF did today. NAF killed 2 civilians in an ambush in Lugansk area.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34128085

Civilians today could be soldiers tomorrow. Civilians today could be shooting at you tomorrow. This is war. There are only two sides. Anyone who lives in Mariupol today is a hater of Russia, else he or she would have moved. All enemies are fair game. Civilians die in every war. This is the sad reality of war.

Military spokesman Andriy Lysenko said the two people killed on Tuesday were both civilians taking part in an anti-smuggling operation north-east of Luhansk, on the demarcation line between rebel-held and government areas, AFP reported.

Six soldiers were among the wounded, officials said.

Two "civilians" participating in an operation are called cops, ergo SBU in this case supported by Soldiers. No civilian was killed. First time I see civilians participating in an operation  that aren't translators...please shut up.

Those two "civilians" were killed in a fight between SBU and Ukrainian army. They are all smuggling, fight was most probably for the money.

In the discussions on here about the dire future that awaits Ukraine we have barely touched on health. Now this

GENEVA, September 2. /TASS/. Ukraine is facing a "particular risk" of the spread of the poliovirus due to insufficient vaccination coverage, the World Health Organization (WHO) said on its website in a report dedicated to the fight against poliomyelitis. The WHO report notes that in Ukraine’s Transcarpathian region, "2 cases of circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus type 1 (cVDPV1) have been confirmed, with dates of onset of paralysis on 30 June and 7 July 2015. One child was 4 years old and the other 10 months old at the time of onset of paralysis."

"Ukraine had been at particular risk of emergence of a cVDPV, due to inadequate vaccination coverage," the WHO noted. "In 2014, only 50% of children were fully immunized against polio and other vaccine-preventable diseases."

According to the World Health Organization, "circulating VDPVs are rare but well-documented strains of poliovirus that can emerge in some populations which are inadequately immunized." "WHO currently assesses the risk of international spread from Ukraine to be low," the report said. The organization noted though that the infected region "shares borders with four countries (Romania, Hungary, Slovakia and Poland)."

The WHO pointed to the need for "a full and complete implementation of an outbreak response of the internationally-agreed standard." "It is important that all countries, in particular those with frequent travel and contacts with polio-affected countries and areas, strengthen surveillance for cases of acute flaccid paralysis (AFP) in order to rapidly detect any new virus importation and to facilitate a rapid response," the organization's report says.

I thought that disease was eradicated...must have confused it with cholera.

PapaDragon wrote:
I thought that disease was eradicated...must have confused it with cholera.

I got the polio Jags in the 1970s and again in mid 1985 both times at school

http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/1011233.html

Various groups of maidanists descended on Odessa today and began fighting amongst themselves, some shouting "Glory to Ukraine", others fighting them shouting the counterpart, "Glory to the heroes". It is not possible to make this up it is so bizarre. And why do they fight each other, pffft, good enough that they do.   http://infocenter-odessa.com/ukrnet/30081-v-odesse-samooborona-maydana-ustroila-massovuyu-draku.html There are a lot of photos with the article, but two here to give a flavor.

The poster in the window of this bus some of these morons arrived in says "Circus on ice" , see, you cannot make this up as they do it to themselves....

Khepesh wrote:Various groups of maidanists descended on Odessa today and began fighting amongst themselves, some shouting "Glory to Ukraine", others fighting them shouting the counterpart, "Glory to the heroes". It is not possible to make this up it is so bizarre. And why do they fight each other, pffft, good enough that they do.   http://infocenter-odessa.com/ukrnet/30081-v-odesse-samooborona-maydana-ustroila-massovuyu-draku.html  There are a lot of photos with the article, but two here to give a flavor.

The poster in the window of this bus some of these morons arrived in says "Circus on ice" , see, you cannot make this up as they do it to themselves....

The inmates are running the asylum.

Flagship Victory wrote: 1) If you say killing civilians is bad,  2)this is exactly what NAF did today.  

Really what evidence you have for that? BBC? Are you serious?

3) Civilians today could be soldiers tomorrow. 4)Civilians today could be shooting at you tomorrow.

BUt you again have not provided evidence that BBC report is true.. that they "FIRED AT CIVILIANS".  Show your evidence that NAF is intentionally aiming at civilians..and/or that the
incident ever happened.. or ELSE SHUT UP.

5)This is war. 6)There are only two sides. 7) Anyone who lives in Mariupol today is a hater of Russia, else he or she would have moved.

 


So by your logic all Ukrainians hate Russia and love Poroshenko because they have not moved to Russia..    

Have ever your thought that people have no where to go ,if they leave their houses?
that they do not want to live in a refugee camp in Russia? an uncertain future? or that all their
families and friends live there in Ukraine? and they cannot leave them behind? or leave their properties to be stolen by others? Or that kiev makes things difficult for people leaving to another city or leave the country?

All enemies are fair game. Civilians die in every war. This is the sad reality of war.

But not all media reports on internet are true.. There is a lot of propaganda ,that comes from CNN and BBC and Kiev media .. and you know that. . But still you insist of posting their reports with a Tone..As IF they were facts..without really knowing a shit ..and do not provide any evidence to backup their claims.. that NAF are "now targeting civilians" intentionally or that ever that incident happened.

You truly enjoy being a TROLL.. i vote for banning him. Not because posting what the western
media say.. but because you are a troll.Honestly. You look to me like a fake account , some kind of an actor ,NGO troll ,paid to visiting this forums.. and push western propaganda here..   A common tactic of western paid trolls is to post western propaganda quickly at the start ,and not allow anyone focus on the lies they claim to be true. That is a common western media tactic..
tell a big lie ,but don't allow the interruption of the BS narrative ,so the lies pass undetected .

So Trolls like you i find all the time in youtube.. for example they say. in the same sentence..
1)Oh Putin have stole many billions,2) but who cares all politicians steal.. 3) He was forced to do it because ..4)hey the world is not fair..

So you have there a One Big Lie mixed with 2 things that people knows are true.. That tactic is mixing BULLSHIT with FACTS.. And the generally accepted as true things keep at the end , so to cover the BIG lie.The trick is.. to keep people attention away of the Big Lie ,so they dont have time to question it.. this is a tactic to confuse people into be open to accept the whole claim to be correct.. because most of it is..

anyone remembers the western narrative of..
"Assad used chemical weapons against its own people.. but we believe it was an accident."

This deceiving tactics are also used a lot in western propaganda.. "softening the Lie"..to make it MORE Believable the whole lie. and CAptain Crunch alias Flagship ,used both tactics in the same
post. So it looks like he is carefully pushing an agenda in this forums. of deceiving people.

Dude shut up!  and keep your opinions and propaganda to yourself..

Vann7 wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote: 1) If you say killing civilians is bad,  2)this is exactly what NAF did today.  

Really what evidence you have for that? BBC? Are you serious?

3) Civilians today could be soldiers tomorrow. 4)Civilians today could be shooting at you tomorrow.

BUt you again have not provided evidence that BBC report is true.. that they "FIRED AT CIVILIANS".  Show your evidence that NAF is intentionally aiming at civilians..and/or that the
incident ever happened.. or ELSE SHUT UP.

5)This is war. 6)There are only two sides. 7) Anyone who lives in Mariupol today is a hater of Russia, else he or she would have moved.

 


So by your logic all Ukrainians hate Russia and love Poroshenko because they have not moved to Russia..    

Have ever your thought that people have no where to go ,if they leave their houses?
that they do not want to live in a refugee camp in Russia? an uncertain future? or that all their
families and friends live there in Ukraine? and they cannot leave them behind? or leave their properties to be stolen by others? Or that kiev makes things difficult for people leaving to another city or leave the country?

All enemies are fair game. Civilians die in every war. This is the sad reality of war.

But not all media reports on internet are true.. There is a lot of propaganda ,that comes from CNN and BBC and Kiev media .. and you know that. . But still you insist of posting their reports with a Tone..As IF they were facts..without really knowing a shit ..and do not provide any evidence to backup their claims.. that NAF are "now targeting civilians" intentionally or that ever that incident happened.

You truly enjoy being a TROLL.. i vote for banning him. Not because posting what the western
media say.. but because you are a troll.Honestly. You look to me like a fake account , some kind of an actor ,NGO troll ,paid to visiting this forums.. and push western propaganda here..   A common tactic of western paid trolls is to post western propaganda quickly at the start ,and not allow anyone focus on the lies they claim to be true. That is a common western media tactic..
tell a big lie ,but don't allow the interruption of the BS narrative ,so the lies pass undetected .

So Trolls like you i find all the time in youtube.. for example they say. in the same sentence..
1)Oh Putin have stole many billions,2) but who cares all politicians steal.. 3) He was forced to do it because ..4)hey the world is not fair..

So you have there a One Big Lie mixed with 2 things that people knows are true.. That tactic is mixing BULLSHIT with FACTS.. The trick is.. to keep people attention away of the LIE TOLD ,so they dont question it.. this is a tactic to confuse people into be open to accept the whole claim to be correct.. because mix a BIG LIE with many general things that people usually know to be true..like.. "killing civilians is Bad" "war is sad" but mixed with "NAF now killing civilians"  and i warn people of Deceiving old tactics like this.

Dude shut up!  and keep your opinions and propaganda to yourself..

Very well said Vann, I am from now on going keep the tatic you mentioned about mixing a lie with truth.