The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

Khepesh wrote:Various groups of maidanists descended on Odessa today and began fighting amongst themselves, some shouting "Glory to Ukraine", others fighting them shouting the counterpart, "Glory to the heroes". It is not possible to make this up it is so bizarre. And why do they fight each other, pffft, good enough that they do.   http://infocenter-odessa.com/ukrnet/30081-v-odesse-samooborona-maydana-ustroila-massovuyu-draku.html  There are a lot of photos with the article, but two here to give a flavor.

The poster in the window of this bus some of these morons arrived in says "Circus on ice" , see, you cannot make this up as they do it to themselves....

Це Європа!

I still don't understand how it's possible for the people of Odessa to tolerate this shit, neutral or not

The best lies are the ones with the most truth... psyops 101

Khepesh wrote:Various groups of maidanists descended on Odessa today and began fighting amongst themselves, some shouting "Glory to Ukraine", others fighting them shouting the counterpart, "Glory to the heroes". It is not possible to make this up it is so bizarre. And why do they fight each other, pffft, good enough that they do.

Couldn't resist. Maybe there is hierarchy and rivalries among them, you know, Uruk (nazis, RS, Svoboda), orcs (Maidanuts and "common" UkrOp), goblins (Grisha and paramilitaries

A US funded survey in Ukraine.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftopwar.ru%2F&sandbox=1


And who is the big bad wolf?

par far wrote:
Very well said Vann, I am from now on going keep the tatic you mentioned about mixing a lie with truth.

yes is an very frequent used tactic.. in western media..
1)Softening the lies to make them more believable.

but they also..
2)Mix Bullshit with facts.. the main message will be the Lie..everything else
will be done to make it look ,like a well "balanced report" that is "credible"

3)and repetition of lies.. they repeat them with strong confidence until people accept it.
"Assad is a brutal Dictator who used Chemical weapons on his people", "Russia Aggression" ,"Russian Invasion" ,"Russia is a gas station"  etc..

and finally trading .. you give something lower to get something bigger.
This tactic is used to be used a lot by Wikileaks.. and now Snowden..
They will tell you minor things ,minor truths. usually low Scandals that do not change
anything in Geopolitics.. oh US Government spying on everyone big deal..  using this and this.. That president told this ,against this other..horror..  and later BAM.. they tell you a HUGE LIE..  wikileaks Assange told 9/11 was NOT an inside job..  And Snowden
went for the "softening the bullshit tactic".. that the US government knows more of 9/11 than they have said..    

Real whistleblowers will not be promoted in the west by CNN /FOX/BBC..or not even Guargian or VICE news.. but the opposite totally ignored or killed.Ted Gunderson former FBI Chief of LA, was never given an interview by any major media ,yet he told US gov FBI and CIA was behind most terrorist attacks in US . Not only World trade center ,but oklahoma FBI bombing ,too and Panam plane shot down and kenya US embassy bombing     Does he made headlines? NO..    TOTALLY IGNORED. They did not allowed him to be popular. In the end who was one of the BIGGEST Government officials to come forward and talk and speak , was totally ignored by western media. Who at one time was THIRD highest Ranked Officer in the FBI.. 30 years of service.. with medals in the agency.. and who was CHIEF of LA FBI offices... was poisoned with Cyanure according to his Doctor. and nothing of this ever reported in any western media.  You will never see real whistler blowers .being given attention or promotion in any American western media.. AAron RUSO another whistleblower who told the banking elite knew about 9/11 WTC attacks 11 months before they happened..and he even was told.. how AFganistan will be invaded after it.. and few others too.. But he was totally ignored again..by western media.. died by a rare Cancer..early on life.

but clowns/actors/impostors like this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaiyVMRGE0M

or this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuohOhLZccY

So called " whistleblowers" are promoted.

The second CIA minion.. who is a "whistleblower" use the trading bullshit tactic.. he say
low level facts ,to gain credibility and lie in the Big things.. So his whole story is that he was
a former CIA agent..and he was paid to overthrow government..not friendly with American
interest.. but one day he became dissapointed..of the agency..and quit, when the same people they supported.. in afganistan ..-> BIN LADEN.. turned against them.. so "thats when he saw
what they were doing is wrong"... See how the bastard LIE?  trading low level facts that do not change anything in US politics for BIG lies. he basically backups the whole Afgan in caves story that did 9/11.    

It worth to mention that CNN.. which is a US State department controlled media , promote
VICE NEws and even link to their media in their own website..

http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/vice/index.html

from CNN website..

About VICE
The staff at CNN.com has been intrigued by the journalism of VICE, an independent media company and Web site based in Brooklyn, New York. The reports, which are produced solely by VICE, reflect a very transparent approach to journalism, where viewers are taken along on every step of the reporting process. We believe this unique reporting approach is worthy of sharing with our CNN.com readers. GO TO VICE.com

So you connect the Dots.. and you will see. How CNN new tactics to BULLSHIT is to
promote "independent online media" in their own website. The FUnding VICE receive should
be Monumental..they have a journalist in almost every part of the world..and do very colorful and graphic reports, which made it looks anything but independent. CNN neither BBC do many reports about Ukraine.. but VICE Does. and surprise surprise.. they use the same mixing lies with facts tactic and is the only media that Ukraine Government welcomes in the front line with their army..    

Ironically Alex Jones and Veteran Todays.. as controversial they are.. is at the moment the best
media i have seen in America..   An easy way to know differentiate between Bullshit media and
true media.. is...

Honest media will not LOCK you into one side of the story. They will invite you reach your own conclusions.. and even promote the discussion of whether some information revealed by any Government or any other report is true or not. Alex takes Phone calls asking what people think if he is wrong or not about any subject. . THIS IS.. the way media should be.. welcoming a debate that oppose your point of view... But when you see a CLOWN automatically trying to pass you BULLSHIT he have as FACT.. like CAptain CRUnch does all the time. and does not allow to even question anything.. or any other possibility ,but simply try to close any debate or discussion about anything he claimed, then you have there a Dishonest Person.. with an agenda.

and you see that always in his post. the same tactics.. a BIG lie told as if was the ultimate truth ,followed by softening of it and mixing it with some facts.. and then closing it from any discussion "Oh the Rebels are now killing civilians, so sad". oh well this is the reality of war. "

 i see charlatan like him ,that is people who spend all their time to lie and deceive people and use several tactics ,like the ones mentioned above for this. every time ,every day in youtube and RT forums.

Khepesh wrote:Various groups of maidanists descended on Odessa today and began fighting amongst themselves, some shouting "Glory to Ukraine", others fighting them shouting the counterpart, "Glory to the heroes". It is not possible to make this up it is so bizarre. And why do they fight each other, pffft, good enough that they do.   http://infocenter-odessa.com/ukrnet/30081-v-odesse-samooborona-maydana-ustroila-massovuyu-draku.html  There are a lot of photos with the article, but two here to give a flavor.

The poster in the window of this bus some of these morons arrived in says "Circus on ice" , see, you cannot make this up as they do it to themselves....


.........

Well obviously there is no shortage of clowns and pretty soon there will be plenty of ice...

Strelkov military reports needs to be taken seriously..

His information from contacts with the Rebels is that Ukraine is preparing
for a major full scale attack in September.  and that kiev have grouped up to 5x fold
more troops in some areas..  And the Reason of the desperate imminent attack is because
kiev force will dramatically reduce its combat capabilities after September.  


This looks to me very possible.. but the major reason i think they could try again to do it..
is because Poroshenko is Losing the control of kiev and he needs to start the war ,to keep
people focused on it and not in overthrowing the government and retake the unity and support he had.


http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/09/strelkov-uaf-will-attack-when-putin-is.html

IF i were to bet.. i will not be surprised ,that Ukraine use complete new lethal but also Illegal weapons supplied from NATO..  It could be Chemical weapons   Mustard Gas ,or Sarin gas.. with many civilians killed.. and OBAMA the coward will surely blame the Rebels for it..
and not the Ukraine government..  The only question that remains for me.. is what kind of actions Europe will take if kiev try to start the war again in full scale and ends killing many civilians and or also attacking Russia in temporary limited attacks? ( to provoke Russia to invade).  I really Hope Russia have evacuated all civilians from Crimea and eastern Ukraine from zones that Ukraine artillery can reach and give all the soldiers home made defenses against Chemical weapons.

What kind of Combat tactics a desperate West could encourage  Ukraine to use ,
with the help of Americans , that people should NOT be surprised the possibility of they used?

1)CHemical weapons  , sarin ,Mustard gas or other nerve agents..
2)ISIS fighters..or other islamic extremist, yes.. why not? if the CIA use them in Syria why not use them in Ukraine..  The tact could be Armored cars ,reinforced with layers of steel ,armed with 1 Tons of TNT and detonated withing 30 to 50 meters of the Rebels positions, the shock wave can reach 100 meters.. and effectively put out of combat anyone near that place.
3)Many middle east jihadist or Africans used as meat shield.. sending a wave of 5 thousands of
cannon meat to the front line and they behind .
4)Electronic warfare too ,supplied by americans.. and thousands of drones invasion , each one armed with a bomb.. Already Strelkov told pro kiev ukies have been supplied with this.

5) and at last ,Dirty bombs.. if they feel they will never retake Donetsk or Lugansk will simply
made it impossible for life to exist there.. and drop dirty bombs.. containing highly toxic
radioactive material.  Naturally they will deny to have anything to do with this.. and will blame it on the Rebels.

But all this things ,whether happens or not.. will highly depend of what kind of pressure
Kiev received or receive from Europe.. If Europe really wants to pressure Ukraine they can do it
in ways they will be unable to do anything. Like threatening Poroshenko with a criminal court if start a new attack and cancel any loan or any association with Ukraine. or Sanctions.. Europe
can also Activate their own people , their own Intelligence inside Ukraine and Assasinate Poroshenko for example and any Key puppet of Americans. Poroshenko is really pushing hard its
luck.. i don't think it will end well for him.. if he give the order to another major war.

A short overview of the Kiev buildup.

Genade thrown into offices of pravy sektor in Kiev. No injuries. Four men arrested in a car with Kiev plates but it is not known who they are or if they were involved. http://lenta.ru/news/2015/09/03/pravosek/

Khepesh wrote:Genade thrown into offices of pravy sektor in Kiev. No injuries. Four men arrested in a car with Kiev plates but it is not known who they are or if they were involved. http://lenta.ru/news/2015/09/03/pravosek/

Perhaps Zahachernko wasn't wrong after all when he predicted street battles in Kiev.

I think so. This will really get difficult for Poroshenko. Either he does nothing and internicine violence continues with revenge attacks, or he has a purge which in itself will lead to fighting. I don't see him conducting a purge tho as he does not have the power or support Hitler had.

higurashihougi wrote:

Khepesh wrote:I think so. This will really get difficult for Poroshenko. Either he does nothing and internicine violence continues with revenge attacks, or he has a purge which in itself will lead to fighting. I don't see him conducting a purge tho as he does not have the power or support Hitler had.

Well, somehow I believe the most vital support for Porkie, *sswenuts and their subordinate actually comes from the White House.

Dunno if Vietnam experiences can be applied here, but as long as the White House still considers Porkie useful and desires to keep him in the position, then it is very unlikely for any coup/riots to be successful.

The problem here is whether Porkie goverment is still useful for the U.S.

I was thinking of personal support within Ukraine. Hitler had so much support that he could have done anything, well, he did. But Poroshenko has almost no popular support.

Poliovirus has returned to Europe after a five year reprieve, paralyzing a 4-year-old and 10-month-old in the Ukraine, the World Health Organization said Wednesday.

The WHO said the two cases were in the southwestern part of the country -- bordering Romania, Hungary, Slovakia and Poland -- and that the strain responsible, vaccine-derived poliovirus type 1 or cVDPV1, may still be a threat to the region.

cVDPV is a rare, mutated form of the virus that comes from the vaccine itself. Oral polio vaccines contain a weakened form of the virus that activates an immune response in the body so that it builds up antibodies to protect itself. But it takes some time for this to happen, and meanwhile the virus replicates in the intestines and can be excreted by the person immunized and can spread to others in the community.

This isn't always a bad thing. It can sometimes provide what is called passive immunity to those who come into contact with it.

However, in populations that are under-immunized -- the Ukraine is definitely one of those with only 50 percent of children fully immunized against polio and other vaccine-preventable diseases in 2014 -- the vaccine-virus can circulate for long time, 12 months or longer, and genetically change into a more virulent form that can paralyze. This is what WHO believes happened in the Ukraine.

In a statement, WHO officials said that discussions are "ongoing" with Ukranian health authorities to implement "an urgent outbreak response." This type of plan usually involves a vaccination campaign to cover at least 2 million children under age 5.

"The risk of further spread of this strain within the country is deemed to be high," the WHO said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/09/02/outbreak-of-rare-mutated-poliovirus-in-ukraine-leaves-two-children-paralyzed/

This could be serious.

PapaDragon wrote:
http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/1011233.html

This comes from where? Ukraine has lost upwards 400 tanks (destroyed or captured) from June 2014 to July 2015.

2 Maidan soldiers KIA and 6 Maidan soldiers WIA yesterday

KoTeMoRe wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/1011233.html

This comes from where? Ukraine has lost upwards 400 tanks (destroyed or captured) from June 2014 to July 2015.

They had thousands in storage that they are attempting to restore for action and they apparently got some T-723B's out of Poland. The NAF believes them to have at least 450 tanks in the zone.

Khepesh wrote:I was thinking of personal support within Ukraine. Hitler had so much support that he could have done anything, well, he did. But Poroshenko has almost no popular support.

Porosheno will likely be gifted with the Yushchenko Award, given to incompetent fools who connive to achieve Ukrainian leadership by any means necessary, but then throw it away and end up despised by the entire nation and having a personal approval rating of 4%.  

franco wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/1011233.html

This comes from where? Ukraine has lost upwards 400 tanks (destroyed or captured) from June 2014 to July 2015.

They had thousands in storage that they are attempting to restore for action and they apparently got some T-723B's out of Poland. The NAF believes them to have at least 450 tanks in the zone.

The graphic only shows VSU tanks in ATO zone. 210 tanks is a lie. They lost in august around than 200 tanks. With quite some other damaged but tower, limping. That Ukraine was supposed to have almost 3000+ active duty tanks after the Secession (and about 2000 more in storage), that I know, but it had been selling them left and right and cannibalizing like there was an all you can eat buffet since the early 1990's.

The VSU losses for the Summer offensive rest at 450 vehicles (July-September) lost or captured. This includes only AFV's. according to the numbers presented. They lost every tank in August and about a 250 IFV's. I personally think that doesn't make sense, since a whole range of vehicles were used to get people in the ATO and there weren't 900 IFV's. I'd put that number at 500/600 and would add about 200 tanks in August.

As for now, same thing, Ukraine's numbers are off, on the upside. They can have (including reserves), about 400/500 tanks and about 800/900 IFV's the rest is highly unlikely (especially the concentration of fire power they display). Bear in mind this claims to be the Donbass area. Not the whole of Ukraine. While these numbers would be roughly right for the whole current Land Component of the UA armed Forces.

2 Maidan soldiers KIA and 6 Maidan soldiers WIA yesterday

War is certainly war, but why do you celebrate deaths... are you retarded?

As for celebrating civilian deaths I dare you to claim the civilians on American soil killed on 11/9 was just war is war... harden up.

Considering the 1st of September is the anniversary of Beslan I find your comments offensive... even more so when you try to defend them with your total war hogwash.

Giving you a chance to apologise and perhaps learn something... about yourself and some of the people here...

flamming_python wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Various groups of maidanists descended on Odessa today and began fighting amongst themselves, some shouting "Glory to Ukraine", others fighting them shouting the counterpart, "Glory to the heroes". It is not possible to make this up it is so bizarre. And why do they fight each other, pffft, good enough that they do.   http://infocenter-odessa.com/ukrnet/30081-v-odesse-samooborona-maydana-ustroila-massovuyu-draku.html  There are a lot of photos with the article, but two here to give a flavor.

The poster in the window of this bus some of these morons arrived in says "Circus on ice" , see, you cannot make this up as they do it to themselves....

Це Європа!

I still don't understand how it's possible for the people of Odessa to tolerate this shit, neutral or not

Turf wars between different former Oligarch private armies???

Cowboy's daughter wrote:

Turf wars between different former Oligarch private armies???

Essentially wannabe mafiosi. They were fighting over who had the right to build on a plot of land in Odessa. Previously one group of maidanuts had started construction, then another group attacked the building site and tore down what was under construction, then yesterday three groups of maidanuts, one local and two from Kiev, all fought for possesion of the site. The man behind the faction attempting to build on the site is Rada deputy Sergei Kivalov, the other two factions are under former deputy Sergei Gordienko and maidanut activist Evgeniy Resvushkin.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

franco wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/1011233.html

This comes from where? Ukraine has lost upwards 400 tanks (destroyed or captured) from June 2014 to July 2015.

They had thousands in storage that they are attempting to restore for action and they apparently got some T-723B's out of Poland. The NAF believes them to have at least 450 tanks in the zone.

The graphic only shows VSU tanks in ATO zone. 210 tanks is a lie. They lost in august around than 200 tanks. With quite some other damaged but tower, limping. That Ukraine was supposed to have almost 3000+ active duty tanks after the Secession (and about 2000 more in storage), that I know, but it had been selling them left and right and cannibalizing like there was an all you can eat buffet since the early 1990's.

The VSU losses for the Summer offensive rest at 450 vehicles (July-September) lost or captured. This includes only AFV's. according to the numbers presented. They lost every tank in August and about a 250 IFV's. I personally think that doesn't make sense, since a whole range of vehicles were used to get people in the ATO and there weren't 900 IFV's. I'd put that number at 500/600 and would add about 200 tanks in August.

As for now, same thing, Ukraine's numbers are off, on the upside. They can have (including reserves), about 400/500 tanks and about 800/900 IFV's the rest is highly unlikely (especially the concentration of fire power they display). Bear in mind this claims to be the Donbass area. Not the whole of Ukraine. While these numbers would be roughly right for the whole current Land Component of the UA armed Forces.

Buddy, who really knows?

The NAF claim that the Ukrainians have in the Donbas and surrounding regions;
- 450 tanks
- 2500 armored vehicles
- 5 SSM
- 230 MRL
- 1050 artillery
- 3500 anti-tank weapons (RPG's and ATGM's)

The Ukrainians claim the NAF has;
- 368 tanks
- 940 armored vehicles
- 198 MRL
- 375 artillery

GarryB wrote:Giving you a chance to apologise and perhaps learn something... about yourself and some of the people here...

I apologize.

Vann7 wrote:Strelkov military reports needs to be taken seriously..

His information from contacts with the Rebels is that Ukraine is preparing
for a major full scale attack in September.  and that kiev have grouped up to 5x fold
more troops in some areas..  And the Reason of the desperate imminent attack is because
kiev force will dramatically reduce its combat capabilities after September.  


This looks to me very possible.. but the major reason i think they could try again to do it..
is because Poroshenko is Losing the control of kiev and he needs to start the war ,to keep
people focused on it and not in overthrowing the government and retake the unity and support he had.


http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/09/strelkov-uaf-will-attack-when-putin-is.html

IF i were to bet.. i will not be surprised ,that Ukraine use complete new lethal but also Illegal weapons supplied from NATO..  It could be Chemical weapons   Mustard Gas ,or Sarin gas.. with many civilians killed.. and OBAMA the coward will surely blame the Rebels for it..
and not the Ukraine government..  The only question that remains for me.. is what kind of actions Europe will take if kiev try to start the war again in full scale and ends killing many civilians and or also attacking Russia in temporary limited attacks? ( to provoke Russia to invade).  I really Hope Russia have evacuated all civilians from Crimea and eastern Ukraine from zones that Ukraine artillery can reach and give all the soldiers home made defenses against Chemical weapons.

What kind of Combat tactics a desperate West could encourage  Ukraine to use ,
with the help of Americans , that people should NOT be surprised the possibility of they used?

1)CHemical weapons  , sarin ,Mustard gas or other nerve agents..
2)ISIS fighters..or other islamic extremist, yes.. why not? if the CIA use them in Syria why not use them in Ukraine..  The tact could be Armored cars ,reinforced with layers of steel ,armed with 1 Tons of TNT and detonated withing 30 to 50 meters of the Rebels positions, the shock wave can reach 100 meters.. and effectively put out of combat anyone near that place.
3)Many middle east jihadist or Africans used as meat shield.. sending a wave of 5 thousands of
cannon meat to the front line and they behind .
4)Electronic warfare too ,supplied by americans.. and thousands of drones invasion , each one armed with a bomb.. Already Strelkov told pro kiev ukies have been supplied with this.

5) and at last ,Dirty bombs.. if they feel they will never retake Donetsk or Lugansk will simply
made it impossible for life to exist there.. and drop dirty bombs.. containing highly toxic
radioactive material.  Naturally they will deny to have anything to do with this.. and will blame it on the Rebels.

But all this things ,whether happens or not.. will highly depend of what kind of pressure
Kiev received or receive from Europe.. If Europe really wants to pressure Ukraine they can do it
in ways they will be unable to do anything. Like threatening Poroshenko with a criminal court if start a new attack and cancel any loan or any association with Ukraine. or Sanctions.. Europe
can also Activate their own people , their own Intelligence inside Ukraine and Assasinate Poroshenko for example and any Key puppet of Americans. Poroshenko is really pushing hard its
luck.. i don't think it will end well for him..  if  he give the order to another major war.

Well this is not really surprising, we all expected offensive at some point. And it is exactly like he said, either offensive in east or chaos in Kiev. Nothing new there...