Oguzhanoz wrote:1. AIM-9X Sidewinder. It is a short range IR based missile. It has %100 kill ratio so far.
2. I don't know how to add photo here but Turkish government released the radar map.There were 2 planes and 1 entered the Turkish airspace.
3. Turkey is lying about the plane or not.You are sure about Turkey was lying,so no need to answer.
But i can make a statement,hope it gives you another perspective about the situation.
It is indicated that Russian military has connected with Turkish military about the flight zones and peace threathy about the planes over syria.There is no agreement for Russia to use Turkish airspace(that's almost impossible because of NATO). But it is agreed that to contact with 1 radia frequency with russian planes and it is always used so far.
Su24 or whatever plane is understanable if only plane recognition signals are open.The plane may not be visible for eyes,but you can do it with signals.
There are mostly russian and syrian planes over there,that syria already shot down and f/4 of Turkish air forces.So the rules for us works like-Start warning the plane from 10km away from border.It is done.But appearently the communication line was closed.Maybe because of the technical disabilities su-24m wasn't even aware that they are entering the Turkish airspace.
4. The targets we hit is in irak and syria is on artillery range.But air forces has more than %90 hit rate and thats why we were using air force.I think goverment don't want to rise the tansion and gave it a break.We are still hitting but not that much for now.Turkey and Russia is unseperatable in this geography,but you know,things might be different in politics and on field.
1. Hardly AIM9 (it would have meant almost maximum distance from Interceptor to Target). At Mach 2.7 max speed the AIM9X should have covered about 800m/s, so IF the F16 launches from initial border crossing that means that missile has flown for 13.5 km already (Mathematics). Given the Interception happened about 1 to 4 km out of Turkish airspace according to Russian or Turkish variants, that means the missile fat least two to 5 seconds more. Total time of flight for AIM9X at best 19 seconds at worst 22 seconds. The decision to shoot the plane was taken before it had done anything wrong. Impossible to have been AIM9 variant for such a short notice interception, because the missile couldn't catch with the plane inside the Turkish territory. Also two planes fired, only one missile hit. Not 100%. Strike one.
2. Two planes crossed the Turkish airspace (according to Turkish complaint), TWO. Both entered on a north south general axis. That's why your guys produced that fake ass audio about "going south". To go back to Bassel al Assad IAP you can't go but South. Strike two.
3. Turkey is lying because of what it has said, and what it has done. No one launches a short range missile on basically BVR mode against an UFO. That's not even practised in war times unless in theatre.
Russia uses NATO airspace when it can't do otherwise, look at recent US request to Greece and Bulgaria to stop Russia from using their airspaces. There was no visual recognition of the aircrafts by Turkey, nor was there signalling from interceptors to target regarding the fire. No fire check or sommation from Turkish AF or Interceptors. It's a whole range of things Turkey hasn't done. It stays at safe distance and fired missiles. Saying they didn't knew who was there, is also complete bollocks in the air that time were at least 2 ELINT planes (three if we count the Israelis) that could talk to Turkey and feed data about who was were. Turkey says it was following the planes and communicating them to stay away? Why? The Turkish data over the Russian flight is comical. You can see the bombers are in a strike mission, IN SYRIA. You can see they do NOT aim for the Turkish border. Strike three.
4. Turkish AF is stopping all overflights, because it doesn't want what? Raising tensions? With Erdogan saying Russia should appologise? Listen I understand you want to muddle the talk here since the good guy Mustafa got it wrong, but it doesn't work. According to the data you gave this is an ambush. According to the missile used it is nothing else. Said to Mustafa, telling this to you, enjoy dead Turkmens and blown convoys, it will last until you get back there in Syria and Russians blow you out of the sky. It's not a threat, it's a promise Putin made when he said, he couldn't exclude more "accidents". Strike 4.
There's not a single ounce of truth in your words, judged by Turkish sources and facts. So what's your purpose here?
Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:KoTeMoRe wrote:1. What missile was used against SU-24M2.
It cannot be a radar-guided one, as I have explained previously. F-16's 20 mm gun is the most probable.KoTeMoRe wrote:2. Engagement coordinates? Interceptor CC, Target CC.
Russians have said it already.KoTeMoRe wrote:3. Why is Turkey lying about not knowing plane was Russian.
Because US didn't tell them before the event.KoTeMoRe wrote:4. Why did Turkey stopped its air transgression over Syria and Iraq?
Because of the Russian ultimatum. Apparently they have stopped flying even within "their" boundaries.
1. We don't know, the fact it hit the engine indicates IR, but doesn't mean much.
2. Navigator said it was missile and it hit the side of the plane, Ir goes for the source, maybe IR, but maybe not. Russians have given their apocalyptic version, I don't belive that attempt to make this some kind of bad movie. This was preplanned and the Turks couldn't risk to get OVER the border. Although their own radar make the F16 disappear just before crossing the Syrian AS.
3. Listen the Turks were looking at a pair of Russian planes, the Turks complained, to the Russian ambassador, allegedly giving him Viscon fo Russian Sukhois. That's not "not knowing who was there".
4. This is indeed true.