Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

You talk about the members on this forum as being armchair generals...

Have had decades of western experts saying that the Abrams rear turret bustle is ideal for protecting the crew and making the vehicle safe, and those same experts claiming the T-72 and other T series tanks with their ammo under the crew compartment is unsafe and dangerous.

The fact is that when faced with a real enemy that actually knows what they are doing a turret bustle is a very easy target and when all your ammo detonates at once no armoured door between the ammo and the crew compartment is going to help... when the ammo burns the vehicle will be too hot to remain inside... if it detonates then you are a gonner because the door separating the ammo from the crew compartment is not enormous... it still has to be able to open so they can load the gun.

With the Armata the crew capsule and the turret are totally separate and not connected in any way so even if all the ammo burns in the turret the crew will be fine.

The thing is that the missile magazines in the Zumwalt include land attack cruise missiles that include weapons with warheads over 300kgs in weight of HE... and it carries large numbers of missiles... there is no way you can carry that sort of weapon load and be safe from enemy fire...

GarryB wrote:

Sorry, but you obviously know little about physics of explosion. How do you know that if hit, Zumwalt missile compartment will explode outwards?

Good point... and to be honest while they will likely have a thick firewall separating them from the rest of the ship, these missile compartments have enormous amounts of explosives and solid fuel propellents... if that detonates then it wont matter where it is located... it will be dozens of tons of HE exploding... even if it does not penetrate the firewall armour it will blow the armour compartment through the ship anyway...

But own missiles aboard Zumwalt are too close to ship`s side, there is no enough room and/or armour bulkhead to diminish force of flame in any way. The missile compartment should need at least 5m of void space between side and missiles AND armour bulkhead also. And all that will work in some way only if incoming missile has a fuse with no delay. But they all have time fuse.

Nice comparison

hoom wrote:Nice comparison

Much of the equipment is different!

Does somebody know what the small radome on top of the helicopter hangar is for?

They could install another 16 redut in place of that big 76mm gun. Already build steregouchshys and other ships have enough guns. These frigates should have had the 120km 9m96E2 and more missiles only.

It´s a 100mm gun. And it would be very expensive to shoot at a trespassing fishing boat with some missile.

Hole wrote:It´s a 100mm gun. And it would be very expensive to shoot at a trespassing fishing boat with some missile.

Even more useless for such a ship.

They have 30mm ak-630 or even rpg oonboard that can be used against such targets. Or send just a coast guard vessel.

A 100mm gun potentially with air burst and guided shells is vastly more flexible than carrying a few more missiles.

It can also carry hundreds of rounds ready to fire that are cheap enough to be fairly regularly used.

They have developed GLONASS guidance systems based on the fuses of 152mm and larger calibre rounds, but it is only a matter of time before they can manage the same with smaller calibres too.

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

Isos wrote:

Hole wrote:It´s a 100mm gun. And it would be very expensive to shoot at a trespassing fishing boat with some missile.

Even more useless for such a ship.

They have 30mm ak-630 or even rpg oonboard that can be used against such targets. Or send just a coast guard vessel.

Naval guns are not useless.

Anyway I read a nice article about them

https://defencyclopedia.com/2016/05/02/analysis-importance-of-naval-guns-on-a-modern-warship/

And russians like to have big guns even in small ships

76mm gun n Karakurts and 100mm gun in buyan-M

You can put a 76mm gun even on a 60 ton boat, so not big of a fuss.
Buyan-M have 100mm gun because they were derived by a model intended to support landing operations (they have also a Grad rocket launcher)and such a caliber is considered the minimum for this role.
Karakurt having not such a role could use a 76mm, a caliber that still allow good anti-ship capabilities together with an excellent AA and actually even anti-AShM one, also with the use of guided round.
In case one would need more Kalibr missile it could put them on a barge or, given that the US has denounced INF treaty also on a truck.

GarryB wrote:A 100mm gun potentially with air burst and guided shells is vastly more flexible than carrying a few more missiles.

It can also carry hundreds of rounds ready to fire that are cheap enough to be fairly regularly used.

They have developed GLONASS guidance systems based on the fuses of 152mm and larger calibre rounds, but it is only a matter of time before they can manage the same with smaller calibres too.

Guided round for 76mm gun already exist, both for AA than surface engagement role, so it will just question of time before Russia get a similar weapon.
They are developing them for 57mm already.

Buyan has a rocket launcher.

Does somebody know what the small radome on top of the helicopter hangar is for?

Is identified as Centaur-NM in various sources.
I'd figured it is some kind of fire-control radar but its satcomms.

Can't find an exact match on the manufacturer website.
https://www.vigstar.ru/stss/tsentavr-nm1.html this seems like an older model ship version.
https://www.vigstar.ru/stss/tsentavr-nm-2s.html this looks like a new gen but its land version.
https://www.vigstar.ru/stss/tsentavr-nm1.html this one seems to be the smaller white dome.

Most new Russian ships & recent refits seem to have the same pair of domes so must be current standard fit.

Hole wrote:Buyan has a rocket launcher.

Yes, it was originally conceived as a FPB with the capacity to support a landing, something more probable in the Caspian Sea than a conventional engagement.
Putting a Kalibr launcher on such class of ships was a very smart move: an enclosed sea, with no evident nor capable adversary a.t.c. still close to fundamental conflict theaters.
A small flottilla but untouchable to even the most powerful Navies in the world.

Still the change was not a small one: Buyan-M passed from a less than 600 to a more than 900t displacement, retaining the same propulsion system, hence it was decided to pass to the smaller but mission designed Karakurt class for the other fleets.

At speed

marcellogo wrote:

Hole wrote:Buyan has a rocket launcher.

Yes, it was originally conceived as a FPB with the capacity to support a landing, something more probable in the Caspian Sea than a conventional engagement.
Putting a Kalibr launcher on such class of ships was a very smart move: an enclosed sea, with no evident nor capable adversary a.t.c. still close to fundamental conflict theaters.
A small flottilla but untouchable to even the most powerful Navies in the world.

Still the change was not a small one: Buyan-M passed from a less than 600 to a more than 900t displacement, retaining the same propulsion system, hence it was decided to pass to the smaller but mission designed Karakurt class for the other fleets.

Stern launchers are for naval Grad-M MLRS. All Buyans have them. They were never classified as FPBs, but as "small artillery ships".

A bunch of nice photos.

























https://vk.com/rus_army_today?z=album-102718758_263739204

Russia’s Pacific Fleet to get two advanced Project 20380 corvettes in 2020-2021

These corvettes will become the third and fourth ships of this class in the Pacific Fleet

MOSCOW, July 1. /TASS/. The advanced Project 20380 corvettes Geroi Rossiiskoi Federatsii Aldar Tsydenzhapov and Rezky will join Russia’s Pacific Fleet in 2020 and 2021, said Captain 2nd rank Nikolai Voskresensky, the fleet’s spokesman, on Monday.

"The corvette Geroi Rossiiskoi Federatsii Aldar Tsydenzhapov will float out for industrial sea trials and official trials in August 2019. It is expected to enter the Pacific Fleet’s arsenal in 2020. The corvette Rezky will reinforce the fleet in 2021. These corvettes will become the third and fourth ships of this class in the Pacific Fleet, respectively," Voskresensky reported.

The Pacific Fleet’s delegation examined the construction of the new corvettes at the Amur Shipbuilding Plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur on Monday. Deputy Fleet Commander for Armaments Rear Admiral Igor Korolyov and officers from the Fleet’s Technical Directorate inspected the corvettes on the slipway, assessed their degree of completion and noted that work is proceeding way ahead of the approved schedule.

The Uran anti-ship missile system constitutes the major strike power of the Project 20380 multi-purpose corvettes.

https://tass.com/defense/1066479

Another artwork by myself of what should be the Steregoushchy corvette according to me. I removed the gun and replaced it by 4 redut for a total of 60 cells. I couldn't do it because there was no good pictures of radars that match this view but I would replace the gun's radar (the square one above the bridge) by a 92N6E radar which is the engagement radar of S-400 and a bigger search radar on the mast so that it can use the 150km 9M96E2 missile at full range.

This way it makes it a very good anti air defence ship to use in coastal waters against carrier attacks and it can protect smaller missile ships by making an area umbrella. Its small size makes it cheaper to operate than bigger frigates and cruiser while it can achieve the same role when you don't want to send it at the other side of the earth but keep your shores safe. If the gun is needed then it can be used from other smaller ships.

Price would increase but it is a floating S-400 that can be networked with the ground IADS. Another good point is that many of such ships can create a line of defence that would be the less affected by radar horizon because it operate above water. If you add a k-31 instead of ka-27, then it increase even more the effectivness of the S-400.

Its antiship and ASW capability stay the same with 8 Urans and paket NK but it increase the survavibality of smaller missile ships that can can carry Oniks and other (like Buyans, Karakurts, Molniya ...).

I know it would make it unbalanced ships so it must be made like 5 or 6 m longer and redesign the inside but it's better than the other expensive variants of the Steregouchshy.

Multi role isn't always needed. Having specialized ships is always good.

A carrier packs 40 or more jets. Gorshkov has only 32 redut cells and steregoushchy variants only 12-16 small 40km range ones which is barely enough for intercepting a volley of hapoons fired by 1 or 2 ship.

They proved that very large ships are slowly build and very expensive for them or for the export. And big ships are supposed to go far letting the borders unprotected. Corvettes are for protecting the borders.

It's not a hyperspecialized ship, it still keeps its uran for antishiping and paket for ASW. Gun can be replaced by missile for anti air and anti shipping and by the 12.7 and 30mm for anything coming close.


The main threat today are submarines, cruise missiles and fighter jets. As a coastal ship it won't use its gun against land targets because it will fight near its mainland, and no other enemy ship will come at gun range. Stand off weapons like 9m96 missiles and urans coupled with long range detection (ka-31) is what they need.

Russia's only ship capable of area defence are kirov, slava and the few Gorshkov they have which like showed the operation in Syria, is pathetic for such country.

As an export product, it gives small countries the ability to make an umbrella and protect their borders. Imagine if Egypt had 6 or 7 such ship and used it against Israel. Israeli jets wouldn't be able to move from Israeli air space nor fly hugh in Israel airspace.

BTW israel also removed its gun from Saar 5/6.

I think thats really over doing it.
Maybe you fit 4*8 on the foredeck without the gun, could get another 2*8 with the 20385 style either side of the hangar aft.

But I think the major issue is they need a bunch of modern ASW corvettes -> I say go back to the lead ship: dump the Redut etc outright & put Pantsir-M which gives 32* 40km range missiles, build lots.

Otherwise for a more balanced light-frigate pump out more 20385s.

3rd Amur 20380 due to be launched in August https://flotprom.ru/2019/%D0%90%D1%81%D0%B79/

Edit: ooh, screencaps from the 22800 laying down show its got the 20385 mast


Thats unexpected

Wait, are you saying they installed 20385 (Gremashi) radar mast on 22800 (Karakurt)?