KIEV, April 27. /TASS/. The OSCE Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) on Wednesday confirmed four civilians were killed in the shelling of the Elenovka border checkpoint of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR).
"According to a preliminary assessment, three vehicles were damaged, four civilians were killed, and an unconfirmed number of people were injured," the SMM wrote on Facebook.
DPR Defense Ministry’s spokesman Eduard Basurin earlier said five civilians were killed.
Maybe this was reported.. but if not .. video of 2 weeks ago ..claims of Minister of defense staff selling the american humvees to Lugansk rebels.
Russia should start pushing in this direction. to buy from Ukrainians Army ANY american or NATO modern equipment and pay well for it. To reverse engineer it and inspect it... something with a list like this.
Stinger manpads -- $50,000 TOW last generation missiles --$5,000 each. Counter Electronics NATO equipment ,depending of how advanced is. from $20,000 to $100,000
But also to buy all Ukrainian tanks and their artillery. Later Ukrainians can claim they lost the tank in combat with the rebels. So is a win/win for both. the Ukrainians makes a lot of money , and helps Russia too at the same time of the implementation of Minsk2 and save civilians lives too because if Ukrainians sells its artillery to Russia, will be unable to fight . I do see a Huge Potential here in buying peace. Poroshenko will be unable to continue attacking eastern Ukraine ,if their army sells all their heavier weapons to the rebels. It will be easy for the Rebels to help the Ukraine army get rid of their tanks and artillery by staging fake combats where they lose artillery and tanks etc. and even with artificially created wounds.
Now people will understand the more time pass in Ukraine conflict frozen ,the less likely Ukrainians and ultranationalist will want to continue with the stupid war. earning a misery ,while the nation economy sinks. It will be very easy to bribe today for Russia any ukrainian or ultranationalist. Even if they financed by Victoria Nuland. Russia can give a better offer to switching sides. Also ukraine should be a heaven for Russian spies ,with the poor state of its economy and the huge discontent of population with the failed revolution and Poroshenko being a puppet of the Americans ,combined with the HUGE corruption in the very same government ,then there is no reason why Ukrainians will not try to do the same what their government does. and earn some easy good cash by cooperating with Russia .
What is funny is that all this thievery is fair and justice. Americans goes an fool Ukrainians and use them to their benefit only ,by ruining their future by provoking violence and war with Russia. then is fair for Ukrainians to fool back Americans too and make money from the military hardware that the pentagon provides Ukraine to continue fighting. So is a win/win for all. the ukrainians makes money and Russia saves lives and and peace maintained by selling away their weapons. The Americans will realize sooner or later will not be able to continue financing the proxy war against Russia ,if ukrainians sells all their military equipment they provide to Russia.
Cowboy's daughter wrote: I'm just curious as to what they were shelled with.....
Mortar - 120 mm
Thank you!
Austin posted these. I may watch them again, so brought them forward.
Posted by: Austin on Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:02 am
Stephen F. Cohen ,The West vs Russia, Munk Debates,Should the West engage or isolate Russia
Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pJlU62Ek4Q Part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX-HBJ9MhBE Part 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFQvXO5rteU Part 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUrwoYYusdc Part 5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgLynGEvQh8 Part 6 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA7kb-wS0Z8 Part 7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqGvjrhzcL8
Russia has circulated a statement at the UN Security Council calling for the investigation of the mass killings which took place in Ukraine’s city of Odessa almost two years ago when dozens of people were burned alive.
The proposed document is also said to focus on the implementation of the Minsk agreements.
"We have circulated a very simple draft statement which underlines the need to implement the Minsk peace agreements and also contains an appeal to investigate tragic events in Odessa on 2 May 2014, when 48 people were burnt to death," Russia's Envoy to the United Nations Vitaly Churkin said. "We wonder what the reaction of the Security Council's members will be."
Churkin said that Moscow expects the statement to be adopted as early as on Thursday after the Security Council session at Ukraine's request takes place.
On May 2, 2014, dozens of people died trapped inside Odessa's House of Trade Unions, which was set ablaze by pro-Kiev radicals. Also 250 were injured in clashes around the area.
Russia appealed to the UN and OSCE to conduct an impartial investigation of the events back in 2014, but the proposal was rejected.
Talking about the upcoming meeting, Churkin said he did not know what the goal of the session is, but stressed he is always open for a good dialogue.
The UN Security Council session is to be held on April 28 upon the request of Ukraine’s President Petro Poroshenko, who said the reason for the initiative is the “worsening situation in Donbass and Russia’s failure to implement the Minsk agreements.”
Vann7 wrote:Maybe this was reported.. but if not .. video of 2 weeks ago ..claims of Minister of defense staff selling the american humvees to Lugansk rebels.
Russia should start pushing in this direction. to buy from Ukrainians Army ANY american or NATO modern equipment and pay well for it. To reverse engineer it and inspect it... something with a list like this.
Stinger manpads -- $50,000 TOW last generation missiles --$5,000 each. Counter Electronics NATO equipment ,depending of how advanced is. from $20,000 to $100,000
But also to buy all Ukrainian tanks and their artillery. Later Ukrainians can claim they lost the tank in combat with the rebels. So is a win/win for both. the Ukrainians makes a lot of money , and helps Russia too at the same time of the implementation of Minsk2 and save civilians lives too because if Ukrainians sells its artillery to Russia, will be unable to fight . I do see a Huge Potential here in buying peace. Poroshenko will be unable to continue attacking eastern Ukraine ,if their army sells all their heavier weapons to the rebels. It will be easy for the Rebels to help the Ukraine army get rid of their tanks and artillery by staging fake combats where they lose artillery and tanks etc. and even with artificially created wounds.
Now people will understand the more time pass in Ukraine conflict frozen ,the less likely Ukrainians and ultranationalist will want to continue with the stupid war. earning a misery ,while the nation economy sinks. It will be very easy to bribe today for Russia any ukrainian or ultranationalist. Even if they financed by Victoria Nuland. Russia can give a better offer to switching sides. Also ukraine should be a heaven for Russian spies ,with the poor state of its economy and the huge discontent of population with the failed revolution and Poroshenko being a puppet of the Americans ,combined with the HUGE corruption in the very same government ,then there is no reason why Ukrainians will not try to do the same what their government does. and earn some easy good cash by cooperating with Russia .
What is funny is that all this thievery is fair and justice. Americans goes an fool Ukrainians and use them to their benefit only ,by ruining their future by provoking violence and war with Russia. then is fair for Ukrainians to fool back Americans too and make money from the military hardware that the pentagon provides Ukraine to continue fighting. So is a win/win for all. the ukrainians makes money and Russia saves lives and and peace maintained by selling away their weapons. The Americans will realize sooner or later will not be able to continue financing the proxy war against Russia ,if ukrainians sells all their military equipment they provide to Russia.
Take your meds...
Even Ukraine is in the gutter right now, it doesn't mean it has become Zimbabwe. 'Superpatriots' in Ukraine will always be PITA, look at the Baltics, they're free and "dynamic", doesn't get them out of the Hate Russia loop.
Americans didn't fool Ukrainians, Ukrainians did that to their own.
Stinger manpads -- $50,000 TOW last generation missiles --$5,000 each. Counter Electronics NATO equipment ,depending of how advanced is. from $20,000 to $100,000
Why?
Russia has nothing to learn from any of that... old obsolete crap.
But also to buy all Ukrainian tanks and their artillery. Later Ukrainians can claim they lost the tank in combat with the rebels. Cool So is a win/win for both. the Ukrainians makes a lot of money , and helps Russia too at the same time of the implementation of Minsk2 and save civilians lives too because if Ukrainians sells its artillery to Russia, will be unable to fight . I do see a Huge Potential here in buying peace. Poroshenko will be unable to continue attacking eastern Ukraine ,if their army sells all their heavier weapons to the rebels. Cool It will be easy for the Rebels to help the Ukraine army get rid of their tanks and artillery by staging fake combats where they lose artillery and tanks etc. and even with artificially created wounds.
Why do you think propping up the Ukrainian regime with funds is a good idea for Russia or the Ukrainian rebels?
Destroying them in real combat makes rather more sense.
,if ukrainians sells all their military equipment they provide to Russia.
Russia has nothing to learn from any of that... old obsolete crap.
Sounds like a silly idea to me.
Not when you understand that without weapons wars cannot be fought. and that even Americans will be unable to keep funding the war if later the Ukrainians sells their heavier and more advanced weapons to Russia and for very cheap.
Is not about reverse engineering the equipment gary. Is about DISARMING the Ukraine Army for a good cause. by buying very cheap their heavier and more advanced weapons. It will make very economically expensive the war for Americans to continue aiding Ukraine army if they later sell the equipment for pennies. Got it now?
Every tank or artillery that is sold to rebels is a weapon that will not be fired against civilians. That doesn't sound silly to me. it will promote a cease of fire if the Ukrainians notices they can make a lot of money selling better their weapons.
Russia has nothing to learn from any of that... old obsolete crap.
Sounds like a silly idea to me.
Not when you understand that without weapons wars cannot be fought. and that even Americans will be unable to keep funding the war if later the Ukrainians sells their heavier and more advanced weapons to Russia and for very cheap.
Is not about reverse engineering the equipment gary. Is about DISARMING the Ukraine Army for a good cause. by buying very cheap their heavier and more advanced weapons. It will make very economically expensive the war for Americans to continue aiding Ukraine army if they later sell the equipment for pennies. Got it now?
Every tank or artillery that is sold to rebels is a weapon that will not be fired against civilians. That doesn't sound silly to me. it will promote a cease of fire if the Ukrainians notices they can make a lot of money selling better their weapons.
I have spent most of my life at the sharp end of performance related pay. I like the idea, especially for anything with a barrel or tube over 100mm. Particularly as most, if not all, the money raised will never end up in the Government's coffers. After all, Ukraine is a totally corrupt society so why not use it against them. Probably wouldn't cost a lot of money in reality. Better still, trade the weapons for van loads of vodka etc.
Good PSYOPS opportunities as well, spreading thoughts of greed, envy, rivalry, distrust etc between the different units and parts of the front. Twitter is your friend
The discovery was made after materials of exploratory drilling reprocessing and seismic exploration
An industrial-scale non-gushing oil flow of 4.9 cubic meters a day has been discovered during exploration of the wells of the Olyvynivska structure, which is located on the territory of the Shevchenko district of Kharkiv region, the press service of Ukrgazvydobuvannia said.
Oil deposits are reported at depths between 2,100 to 2,200 meters. According to preliminary data, the volumes available are estimated at 290,000 tonnes of conventional fuel.
The drilled well has identified a number of potential reservoirs above the section, which opens up prospects for further exploration on this site.
It is noted that the discovery was the result of reprocessing of materials of exploratory drilling, seismic exploration, and three-dimensional construction.
Chief geologist of PJSC Ukrgazvydobuvannia Mykhailo Machuzhak said that “trying to increase production volumes, experts are stepping up exploration in all the potential oil and gas bearing areas.”
The local chain of command at senior officer level for the shelling of Elenovka checkpoint is established. ATO 14th Brigade Kombrig Shakun, brigade artillery commander who gave the actual order to fire is polkovnik Parshikov, and the fire control officer was major Titarenko. This is regular UA, not any radikals. http://news-front.info/2016/04/28/kisa-skazhite-kak-artillerist-minometchiku-vy-strelyat-umeete-a-po-elenovke/
Digression and idle thoughts... Over the last two years an analogy between the arguments that during GPW Wehrmacht knew nothing about the operations of the SS Sonderkommandos and the excuse "nothing to do with me, I'm innocent", has emerged in that "normal" UA units are simply guys doing their duty, carrying out orders, not any sort of barabaric murderer etc etc. This lie used by Wehrmacht took a long time to expose, in Ukraine we now see the modern version of this lie exposed before our eyes in real time, but here it is worse, for while generally Wehrmacht knew about the murders committed by sondercommandos, they did not, with exceptions of course, take part, at least in any large scale as a "normal" part of their duties. In Donbass, while the radikals have this reputation, largely created by themselves, the prime culprits in the murder of so many Donbass citizens is the responsibility of "normal" UA formations, primarily their artillery brigades. The radikals seem mainly to be used in infantry combat in hot spots, but the murders of civilians by artillery is done by the UA from behind the lines, almost a reversal of the situation between Wehrmacht and SS sondercommados. This is of course not to give any sort of excuse to the radikals, simply an observation of what appears to be occuring.
Last edited by Khepesh on Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:18 am; edited 1 time in total
Is not about reverse engineering the equipment gary. Is about DISARMING the Ukraine Army for a good cause.
And of course Russia will buy up all the Ukrainian government forces weapons and the ukrainians will buy sunshine and rainbows with all that money and suddenly peace will break out all through the land...
If I opened a dictionary and looked up the word Naive what are the chances of seeing Vann7s picture there?
When you deliver cash money to a war zone the results are never good.
Giving your enemy cash doesn't work to prevent war or stop a war.
More to the point the material you would be buying is crap... worse than the cold war junk they are getting rid of now... why spend good money to buy worse crap than that?
I have been out of touch for the past two weeks due to real life issues. Anybody can help me figure out the big picture? This is what I have seen
As far as I can tell, the intensity of fighting and shelling has abated somewhat though it still remains high at an average 200 shellings daily, higher than before February, but not reaching the levels of the attrition of March. Seems ukranian forces couldn't maintain this pressure and are rotating out regular units due to wastage and replacing them with the expendable cannon fodder of the nationalist radicals, hitherto used for occupation duties.
On the other hand, the casualties, being a few thousand, are not significant enough, the Ukranian forces still have enough forces and margin of superiority to continue with this grinder for a couple months more. Past that, wastage starts to affect the possibilities for launching a large scale offensive, though Ukranian command might be counting on the attrition suffered by Novorussian forces to keep the relation of forces the same.
On one hand it seems as the conflict will freeze again, and Ukranians will give up the offensive due to pressure from Germany and the US, but that doesn't mean peace will come. Russia is interested in the freezing of the war so sanctions are lifted. Germany wants the war to be over so they can proceed with the plan of absorption of a new economic colony. The Obama administration just wants peace and quiet to not leave the problem to the next President.
Ultimately the decision rests with the players. The junta doesn't want to end war, and Minsk is a capitulation that would lead to further concessions. Conversely the Novorussians don't want Minsk to be fullfilled as it is a surrender in exchange for little to nothing and they have no guarantee that Ukraine would honor the commitments. Given the ruin of Ukraine's economy, Donbass overtime will slowly be better off as a large Transdnistria than being part of the despised Ukranian state. But for that they need to liberate more territory than they actually hold. The biggest factor that can lead to war is that the status quo is unacceptable to either party. But both want the other to break the Minsk agreements first so as to not lose the support of their backers.
Ukraine can't win this war and can't make pace. They will only attack when they feel they have nothing more to lose. After several scares, analysts like Cassad have concluded that the Ukranians are either unable to launch a major offensive aimed at taking back Donbass or unwilling to, limiting themselves to heating up the conflict every now and then with positional warfare, to keep the war going and prevent a negotiated settlement.
On the other hand this spring has shown a large buildup wich unmistakably shows that the Ukranians are preparing a large scale offensive, or at the very least that they acknowledge the risk that their constant attacks will trigger a Novorussian offensive. According to a report, 90% of the materiel of the Ukranian forces has been taken from storage sites and deployed in the frontlines. Poroshenko may be stalling for time, but there are indeed many factions in the Ukranian camp that want war.
I think Poroshenko can see the obvious. If the Ukranian army was strong enough to even make some small gains and claim some sort of victory, they would have attacked at any time since october 2014. Attacking means certain defeat. I think the only option left for the Ukranian junta is to prolong the war, goading the Novorussians so as to evade their obligations to fullfill Minsk accords by blaming the other side, and hope that with time by 2017 there is a new US President that would take a harder line towards Russia and supply Ukraine with the money, weapons and training to rebuild the army and be able to crush Donbass.
On the other hand, Russia wants the conflict frozen, not allowing the Novorussians to fight back, as any renewal of hostilities would be blamed on Russia by default. The Kremlin hopes the Europeans get fed up with supporting Ukraine and will renew sanctions. Deprived of economic support, the Ukranian regime would hopefully crumble. They might also be hoping that the new US president is Trump and gives up Ukraine, but I hope Russian leaders realize the confrontation could take a turn for the worse if Hillary Clinton gets elected.
I believe Moscow wants to win time, since Russian economy is suffering from low oil prices and sanctions, wich affects the budget for rearmament. Perhaps they think that by freezing the war in Donbass, in the worst case, if Clinton is elected, they will have gained another vital year to get Armata tanks in production and deployment, modernize the T-72 fleet and get the first new warplanes of the PAK FA. There will be most likely no war with US and NATO, but Russia needs to build up their conventional forces as deterrence to make NATO give up any thought of trying force or the threat of force to dictate Russian policy. And it cannot be ruled out a war by proxy with Turkey. The key weakness is the air force, and it would not be until 2020 that the armament buildup would be complete enough to achieve parity with US and NATO.
So it all depends on how desperate or how reckless are junta leaders. My take is that Poroshenko will be overruled by the war faction when time is up. Once Germany withdraws financial assistance, and faced with the unstoppable dwinling of Ukraine forces due to attrition, they will have to strike then. Even if they don't achieve victory, a defeat that alarms the US and Europe might decide them to continue backing the junta rather than face a Russian victory in Ukraine.
As for Russia and Novorussia side, they are waiting for Ukraine to strike first, or to collapse eventually. I think Zakharchenko appeals to resistance in Kharkov and Odessa are motivated by a Russian intelligence assesment that the collapse of the Ukranian regime is unavoidable, and large Novorussia might still be achieved by population uprising rather than by Novorussian tanks driving onwards to the Dnieper.
Of course in this forum we want war. Quick and decisive action. A decisive defeat in the field would hasten the collapse of the Ukranian regime, and it would happen so fast that the US would not have time nor the inclination to avoid. But wat will not be over until Germany and the US admit defeat and cut the strings of their puppet.
Everything is ready but I do not think there will be war yet until July, when the Ukrops see the sanctions against Russia are lifted or about to be lifted.
Ukrainian UN Ambassador says Russia has 34,000 troops in Donbas.
Deputy Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko charges the Kremlin with fueling up the conflict
“Speaking about safety issues, there are no signs of improvement there. Russia deployed 34,000-strong military contingent in Donbas”, the Ukrainian diplomat said during Thursday session of the UN Security Council.
According to him, the Russian troops are well armed and equipped. “On that day (Thursday -112 International), we counted 470 tanks, 970 APCs, 450 cannons and 190 Grad multiple missile launchers… all of that was allegedly bought in the gun stores. We would be grateful if Russia took action and told the separatists in Donbas to give up all these deadly toys and send them back to Russia”, Prystaiko said.
Interesting comment towards the end about them being separatist... however the lies must be perpetuated. Russian they are!
Noticed a couple month's ago that the composition of the all volunteer NAF was: - 10% foreign, mostly Russian but from all over. - 20% non Donetsk or Lugansk Ukrainian regions - 70% Donetsk and Lugansk residents
This 34,000 force is backed up by a part-time 10,000 Territorial Defense force (18 battalions) plus another 30,000 trained and equipped reservists.
franco wrote:Ukrainian UN Ambassador says Russia has 34,000 troops in Donbas.
Deputy Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko charges the Kremlin with fueling up the conflict
“Speaking about safety issues, there are no signs of improvement there. Russia deployed 34,000-strong military contingent in Donbas”, the Ukrainian diplomat said during Thursday session of the UN Security Council.
According to him, the Russian troops are well armed and equipped. “On that day (Thursday -112 International), we counted 470 tanks, 970 APCs, 450 cannons and 190 Grad multiple missile launchers… all of that was allegedly bought in the gun stores. We would be grateful if Russia took action and told the separatists in Donbas to give up all these deadly toys and send them back to Russia”, Prystaiko said.
Interesting comment towards the end about them being separatist... however the lies must be perpetuated. Russian they are!
Noticed a couple month's ago that the composition of the all volunteer NAF was: - 10% foreign, mostly Russian but from all over. - 20% non Donetsk or Lugansk Ukrainian regions - 70% Donetsk and Lugansk residents
This 34,000 force is backed up by a part-time 10,000 Territorial Defense force (18 battalions) plus another 30,000 trained and equipped reservists.
If 34.000 Russian soldiers represent 10% of Novorussian military might, Than whole Novorussian army have 340.000 soldiers. In that case 404 is in big troubles if they start any new offensive.
If 34.000 Russian soldiers represent 10% of Novorussian military might, Than whole Novorussian army have 340.000 soldiers. In that case 404 is in big troubles if they start any new offensive.
One zero too many. What the above poster meant is that out of thirty thousand troops, 10% are Russian volunteers (with a smattering of other nationalities).
It's all possible, so it's still a guessing game. The new factor, if true, of US financial help to Kiev being dependent of an offensive needs to be considered as well, tho I doubt Obama will really want a war in Europe before he departs, but I am not sure that is really a consideration, or that Obama controls such issues. The "joker in the pack", as I always maintain, is that Poroshenko may act on his own in his own interests, or other forces in Ukraine may take action and I still do not discount military coup in Kiev, but whether to stop this nonsense or force the issue by war is another matter. The plot to assasinate Zakharchenko, and apparently Plotnitsky, suggest that if they had been succesful an offensive would have followed. A serious attempt to kill both will have been ordered by Poroshenko or Washington and so still says to me that they want war sooner rather than later.
Whole Novorossian forces should be max up to 50.000 men with partial mobilisation. I doubt atm they field more than 40.000 at the best, let alone 340.000
I said a few weeks back that there is always rumors and nonsense surrounding all these many anniversary days, and so far not a single incident has ever occured. But, in Mariupol and Odessa a whispering campaign is in operation to say that all should rise on Mayday. This seems so insidious and dubious that strong warnings are given for anything like this to be ignored as it is clearly some attempt by SBU at provocation, as is the request by Saakashvili for more troops to be moved to Odessa. Yet there seems to be possibly real conflict between various Kiev factions, and the radikals wanting to storm city administration and House of Trades Unions and burn both down. All demented rats in a madhouse....
Militarov wrote:Whole Novorossian forces should be max up to 50.000 men with partial mobilisation. I doubt atm they field more than 40.000 at the best, let alone 340.000
This you could get from Orcs propaganda. They claim there is 34.000 Russian soldiers and that Russians represent 10% of Novorussian military.
Militarov wrote:Whole Novorossian forces should be max up to 50.000 men with partial mobilisation. I doubt atm they field more than 40.000 at the best, let alone 340.000
This you could get from Orcs propaganda. They claim there is 34.000 Russian soldiers and that Russians represent 10% of Novorussian military.
Well nice way to explain why 120.000 UA soldiers got their asses kicked by 50.000 miners, teachers and railroad workers.
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it will promote a cease of fire if the Ukrainians notices they can make a lot of money selling better their weapons. 
