Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

mnztr wrote:does it make sense to use a different shipyard to rebuild the next one?

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

mnztr wrote:does it make sense to use a different shipyard to rebuild the next one?

after completing work the first yard has experience and qualified workers and subcontractors' network. Then  to change?  

Hole wrote:Maybe to give another yard the same experience.

mnztr wrote:
yes it seems inefficient...especially with only 2 ships

GarryB wrote:Taking out all the old wiring and piping and replacing many of the old components from pumps and systems, to all the computers and electronics takes time...

GarryB wrote:

I think it's possible PtG modernization, as done on Nakhimov, would never be done.
The main weapon, P700 missile system is not as outdated, the ship itself is sailing from less than 25 years and is in good conditions. I think would go for a light refit of wearing parts, some electronics upgrade and maybe a reactors refuel if needed. Would be very smart to me if they ADD UKSK cells for kaliber and tsirkon when will be ready to be equipped instead of removing p700 compartment to make place for them. Uksk system is way more compact then P700.

During the cold war the Soviets made a wide range of specialised ships, each optimised for a role, with their own special propulsion, sensors, and armament, while the bigger vessels had multirole systems... ie anti sub rockets and torpedos etc etc, many of the smaller ships were rather specialised.

Today they want multirole, and they also want design unification... Granit is a powerful and capable missile, but has been replaced with Onyx and soon to be replaced with Zircon.

In terms of operations it is more useful to be able to eliminate a missile from your stock and replace it with a standardised type, which is what they would be doing with UKSK launch bins. All the plans I have read say the Kirov upgrade at the very minimum is all about the replacement of the Granit launch bins with the UKSK launcher bins.

They might keep Rif and Rif-M, and Klintok, but with the newer missiles, though I hope they get S-400 level SAMs too, but UKSK bins are a bare minimum for the upgrade.

It would be interesting to see the performance and size and weight difference replacing all that 1980s computer hardware with modern systems and equipment, but I doubt they will reveal that sort of information.

A couple of buildings worth of main frame computers replaced with wardrobe sized supercomputers...

BTW it is a forum rule that you first post is an introductions in the rules and introductions section...

GarryB wrote:

I know the advantages of standardization of weapon systems, but since PtG systems are in perfect working order would'nt be fool to keep Granits (still Russia has good stock of them) for anti ship task and just adding UKSK fitted with klibers to implement land attack cm skills? Would be way easier and cheaper even considering to stock and service two full salvo of them (40) to not scrap and rebuild that ship section.

The problem is that you have to take out the 20 angled Granit tube launchers to put in the 10 UKSK launch bins for the new missiles... and quite frankly by the time this upgrade has finished... for both vessels it will be 2022-2025 or so, which means Zircon will be entering service.

Now a 7 ton Granit is an impressive missile with low altitude flight speeds of mach 1.6 and fairly long range of up to about 500km, while the much much lighter Onyx offers comparable speed at much less than half the weight, and you can fit 80 of them where 20 Granits are fitted currently, but when these vessels are going back into the water the Zircon will be in service... so mach 6-8 at high altitude and a flight range most likely in the 800-1,000km range... 80 vs 20... it very much is a no brainer.

Now I agree the recent upgrades to the Granits suggest they want to keep them, but upgrades to Oscars to replace them with Onyx (replace 24 with 72) and likely eventually you have to say they will likely use up the Granits.

From memory Granits were no longer in production in Russia... it was only Vulkan (P-1000) that were being made, but they were also not new systems that don't really offer any huge advantage over the new missiles, yet are bigger and heavier.

I am sure in the future that old Granits and Vulkans and other such missiles will offer excellent defence training for ships and land bases, but the replacements are here and it makes so much sense to move on.

Not only is performance better, but it is much more flexible... you could load 40 Zircons in an upgraded Kirov and double its previous fire power, but also carry land attack cruise missiles... plus anti sub weapons... and currently even the old Granits got land attack capability, so I would expect the same for Zircon.

Just one Granit hit can take out a carrier from battlefield, it's sure they would get the same result with so smaller and lighter missiles as oniks and tsirkon then?

Actually you would be surprised... those smaller lighter missiles are also moving more than twice as fast.

One hit from any of these weapons and the carrier is no longer an active chess piece... it will limp away and try to do its best to remain floating... a mach 8 dive from a Zircon will punch a hole from the deck to sea water... if it then explodes in the water the enormous bubble created by the impact and explosion would break the back and sink any ship...

Ironically standard procedure with incoming threats is to turn end on so the missile hits the bow or the stern, to make as small a target as possible, but with a hypersonic missile that just means a deeply penetrating threat can do even more damage than punching in one side and out the other...

Know tsorkon is hypersonic but they are sure in a 25years lifespan USN could'nt deploy hulls with reactive curtain as tanks? Seems fantasy now but with proliferation of hypersonics that is a possible countermeasure that would easy annhilate a little/light missile even fast as a gunshot

I would say the best defence against hypersonic weapons would be lasers... simply because the speed of the interceptor makes interception calculations more practical... but then the Russians are developing laser systems to transfer energy collected in one place to another... which means being able to absorb the energy in a laser beam and convert it into electricity...

After upgrading, the Admiral Nakhimov heavy nuclear missile cruiser will receive unified launchers and will be able to carry various types of missiles, the Russian Minister of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov told Interfax.
"Based on the concept of unification of launchers, which the Navy implements, this ship will be able to carry various types of missiles," he said, answering the question whether the ship would receive a new strike weapon, the Caliber and Zircon missiles, after repair.

Capt(N)
@Capt_Navy
#ВМФ #ТОФ????????#Russian #Navy RFS 015 ‘Admiral Lazarev’(former ‘Frunze’),a Kirov Class missile battlecruiser in Strelok Bay near #Vladivostok, Russia on March 2019.

She was commissioned in 1984 and in 1999 the cruiser was taken out of service...This is the death a decades-long.