Russian made Scopes and Optics

PIN me with your email and I'll see if I can scan and send you some info on the NV/thermal Imagers. Sorry about the web site not loading????

The thermal and night vision stuff is too expensive for me to justify really... expensive toys... not that I don't like expensive toys... I bought a Makarov based air pistol that was made in the factory that makes Makarovs and it is pretty much exactly like the real thing except the barrel and mag and the gas mechanism.

I don't shoot it much, but it is fun and is as good a replica as I need.

I also have a Baretta 92 blank firing pistol and a TT33 air pistol, and a PPK air pistol (I would prefer a PSM but can't get one).

Will PM you my address anyway...

What I am really looking for is a nice Russian bolt action rifle in 5.45 x 39mm and a compact light scope in the 1-4x range for close in shooting.

I'll catch up with you privately - but I think from my experience that you'll be pushing to get a bolt action Russian rifle in 5.45 x 39! I have in my collection a beautiful BARS 4-1 bolt action, timber stock, chrome lined barrel and fully adjustable trigger in 7.62 x 39 with a Wever 2.5x scope on it - great set-up. Knocks over anything out to 300 metres and I don't usually shoot beyond that. Time of flight allows the animal to move and you can end up just maiming them - not a good look. I prefer to limit my shots to around the 100 metres that way the shot has more chance of hitting where you aim without the animal moving its head etc. Deer are notorious for putting their heads down, grabbing a mouthful of grass and then suddenly lifting their heads to look around while they chew. You need to hit them the moment they touch the grass or wait for them to lift. [My experience anyway]. The BARS 4-1 is a great little rifle to take out when I don't need the full power 7.62 x 51. Easier to shoot, not so noisy and cheaper each round and still drops them cold.

So we can put this to rest regarding using either French or Russian thermals for current and future tanks:

https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/112033/

Russia has fully replaced components for tank sights from France

The Russian enterprise has completely replaced the thermal imagers for armored vehicles, previously purchased in France.

"The issue of supplies from France — it is the purchase of photodetector arrays cooled type (thermal), which are the basis of the sighting of the reconnaissance systems for tank-automotive equipment.These items were played, starting with this year supply of photodetector arrays for the "Uralvagonzavod" in the first place for tank production, is carried out with the Russian production. Addiction is a no-no," — said in the Russian government.

Russia really had difficulty after the imposition of sanctions and the refusal of the French partners to supply these products. "But with pre-emption was opened developmental work in NPO "Orion" and the concern "Schwabe" the extensive cooperation is of the Vologda optical and mechanical plant, Krasnogorsk optical plant", — explained in the government.

According to the "Rosoboronexport" at the end of 2013, Russia bought in France imagers for tanks and other armored vehicles, as well as the navigation system and communication system in an average amount of $150 million a year.

Further details from a comment in comment section:

At the moment, the Vologda optical and mechanical plant has a contract with Rostec for the purchase of thermal imaging channel TPK-K for tanks T-72B3 and T-80БВМ, and most likely for the T-90M.

1.The subject of the contract

1.1. The supplier undertakes to manufacture and deliver and the Buyer to accept and pay for products, name, item, quantity, price and time of delivery specified in the Specifications (Appendix No. 1), signed by the Parties and forming part of the Contract.

1.2.The vendor is allowed to produce and ship products on a CD the letter "O", in accordance with the PP. 2 and 10 of Decision No. 3/6/63-2018 "About the order of introduction of thermal imaging cameras domestic production in sighting systems products T-72-BZM, T-80БВМ..." approved by the Deputy Minister of defence of the Russian Federation Yu. I. Borisov 08.05.2018 G.

Catherine FC with a line of LWIR 288 x 4 will replace TPK-K with the MWIR is ФЭМ18М-03 640×512.

TPK-K is used MFTV (the module of formation of the thermal signal) ФЭМ18М-03 NPO "ORION".

TPK-K (thermal channel) produces Krasnogorskiy Zavod im. S. A. Zverev

http://zakupki.gov.ru/223...urchase/contractI...

I recall that earlier in the sights of Essa, Pine-y and Sodema for tanks t-90A, T-72b3 and BMP-3M was used by the French matrix for thermal channel Catherine FC, which was made under license. Now it is planned to use domestic TPK-K with higher performance. The introduction of this product will allow the Russian tanks(and also quite possible and combat vehicles of infantry and armored personnel carriers) get rid of foreign dependence and the technological gap.

https://rt-ci.ru/purchase_information/?id=130900

https://pikabu.ru/story/r...ionnyie_matritsyi_6011136

Congratulations to Russia, it is a very big leap.
640X512 is not bad at all...

Excellent news, though not actually a surprise...

The Soviets went for LLLTV systems including sophisticated auto target tracking hardware and software which led to very capable systems like Shkval for the Ka-50/52 and the Su-39, that has also been used in Tunguska and Pantsir and also TOR and Kornet.

The west went for thermal imagers and had a lead in design and production, but that lead no longer exists in practical terms.

New systems seem to be focused on combining technologies... so image intensification and thermal and video, but with MMW radar and other technologies to add dimensions to the detection and tracking ability of a combined system...

I have managed to buy myself a Bars-4-1 rifle... I managed to get it rather cheap because the rifle I bought in in 5.6x39mm calibre... which is otherwise known as .220 Russian.

I got it cheap because it is very hard to get ammo for here... the round itself is basically a 7.62x39mm round necked down to a .22 calibre bullet.

A 5.45x39mm round has a much smaller case, but I would have preferred it as the ammo is easier to get than the 5.6mm ammo I need.

I see Tula Ammo produce the ammo and it actually looks like an interesting round... a shorter fatter .223 really with more shell case room for propellant... but obviously it is so close to a .223 round or a .222 round in performance the odd Russian round never really had a chance.

Haven't decided what I am going to do with it yet... I guess my options are to either hand load, or rebarrel to 7.62x39mm or perhaps rebarrel to 5.45x39mm... or perhaps even get a chamber insert and use it for .22WMR or something weird...

Haven't decided yet.

Anybody here who can ID the optics mounted on the rifles in the picture below? Thanks in advance !

Lighter thermal sight to complement combat gear Ratnik

Russia’s holding company Shvabe also created the technology increasing aiming distance

ZHUKOVSKY /Moscow Region/, August 30. /TASS/. Russia’s holding company Shvabe has developed a new, lighter version of the thermal night vision weapon sight, which is to complement the soldier’s field combat gear Ratnik, Shvabe’s first deputy CEO for research and development and innovations, Sergei Popov, told TASS in an interview.

Currently Shvabe provides older versions of thermal night and day vision sights for the gear Ratnik and keeps working on their upgrade. As far as thermal vision sights are concerned, it is essential to reduce their mass.

"Before, the sight had seven lenses, which made it rather heavy, 1.5 kilograms. New technological solutions have enabled us to replace seven lenses with two, which cope with the same functions. The sight’s mass has been reduced dramatically. Its new version for the Ratnik gear is about 400 grams," Popov said.

Technology of increasing the aiming range

The holding company Shvabe has also developed a unique technology of cutting the reticle (sighting grid) of optical instruments that dramatically increases the aiming range.

Before, the sighting grid was created by means of photolithography, a process of transferring geometric shapes on a mask to the surface of a silicon wafer. Sights made this way were enough to achieve desirable fire accuracy at a distance of no more than one kilometer.

"Now the sighting range has increased to two kilometers. At such a distance the size of the target is close to the thickness of crosshairs. And at a certain point the target becomes invisible. We’ve devised a technology of cutting the reticles with a laser beam. Sights manufactured the new way considerably increase the sighting range," Popov said.

Upgraded sight Sodema to be used on T-90 main battle tank

An upgraded sight Sodema, originally created for the weapon systems of the armored personnel carrier BMP-3 and other armored vehicles, will be used on the T-90 main battle tanks, Sergei Popov told TASS in an interview on the sidelines of the aerospace show MAKS-2019.

"We have plans for using this sight [Sodema] for upgrading the T-90 tanks," he said.

Sodema was originally developed for the armored personnel carrier BMP-3, but it will be installed on other light armored vehicles and also used for upgrading foreign vehicles under military-technical cooperation programs, Popov said.

Equipping armored vehicles with the new sights under the upgrade program will take an estimated two to six months.

"Sodema has begun to be produced serially. Reconfiguring it for use on other vehicles will be easy," he added.

The international aerospace show MAKS-2019 is being held in Zhukovsky, near Moscow, on August 27-September 1 as organized by Russia’s Ministry of Industry and Trade and Rostec corporation. The show has attracted 827 companies from 33 countries, including 184 foreign firms.

Ratnik combat gear

Currently Russian troops use the combat gear Ratnik of a second generation. In the near future Ratnik will incorporate new elements being created for the next generation gear, Ratnik-3, such as medical sensors, land mine-proof footwear and an electronic visor enabling a soldier to shoot at the enemy from around a corner. Ratnik-3 will provide the same degree of protection but will be four kilograms lighter than its predecessor. Research is underway to complement the combat gear with an exoskeleton and a drone.

Svabe holding

Shvabe is a holding company affiliated with the government-run corporation Rostec. It consists of several dozen organizations, which constitute the backbone of Russia’s optical industry. The holding’s affiliates implement the full cycle of creating the newest optoelectronic and laser technologies for national defense, state and public security and civilian industries.

https://tass.com/defense/1075716

Alright gents, what do we got to meet this new threat?

AlfaT8 wrote:Alright gents, what do we got to meet this new threat?

This "threat" was created by US army industrial complex to get more funding and I bet their infantry will never get this any time soon.

Currently either Chinese nor Russians employ NVG on such scale that would require US to retool. US is also generations ahead in NVG purchased by the military because of their budget and of it's use in counter-insurgency scenarios. At the moment thermal scopes are too expensive to be issued to the soldiers and there's no need to stack them up because how technology moves ahead. By the time it will end up in US soldiers hands it will be either reverse engineered and probably improved couple times or there are already similar systems in place. Some small Russian manufacturers already showed thermal scopes with AI for hunting.. Also, exotic infantry equipment is not really a priority in this day and age. Maybe in 5-10 years?

Regular wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:Alright gents, what do we got to meet this new threat?

This "threat" was created by US army industrial complex to get more funding and I bet their infantry will never get this any time soon.

Currently either Chinese nor Russians employ NVG on such scale that would require US to retool. US is also generations ahead in NVG purchased by the military because of their budget and of it's use in counter-insurgency scenarios. At the moment thermal scopes are too expensive to be issued to the soldiers and there's no need to stack them up because how technology moves ahead. By the time it will end up in US soldiers hands it will be either reverse engineered and probably improved couple times or there are already similar systems in place. Some small Russian manufacturers already showed thermal scopes with AI for hunting.. Also, exotic infantry equipment is not really a priority in this day and age. Maybe in 5-10 years?

I thought russian infantry used NVGs and NV sights at a massive scale. However there are claims that currently every single recon infantry unit in the US is equipped with thermal scopes. Is this true?

My understanding is that third gen II sights are part of Ratnik where they get a monocular that can be hand held, attached to their helmet, or rifle mounted as a scope.

Might sound crazy but thermals would likely end up cheaper for general issue... modern thermal sights are a couple of thousand dollars, but third and fourth gen II sights are not that much cheaper and vastly more fragile and easy to destroy/damage... break a couple of II sights and the thermal becomes much cheaper...

Movement seems to be in the direction of digital night vision that uses QWIP based sensor chips that see in normal visible light frequencies as well as IR and UV, and uses computer processing for light level amplification and sometimes even colour night vision.

They are not as good as III and IV gen Image intensification but have some real significant advantages... first of all the can be used in the day time without any problems like a digital video camera. Second... and very important they are hundreds of dollars rather than thousands of dollars... and third even more important is that their tube life spans are not 2,000 hours like an II scope tube... they are practically unlimited.

Also in terms of performance they are not as good as the best II but the image quality and ability to identify targets at distances is much better than any II or IR.

The new РV1-8x25 L ХОРТ ОХОТНИК (Khort Okhotnik) from VOMZ (Vologda Optical-Mechanical Plant).
It is for Civilian use.
Their website is: pilad-vomz (add .ru at the end).
Sorry, I can not post links yet.

https://www.pilad-vomz.com/

For their English language website...

Is there any source out there that tries to assess the level of proliferation of night vision optics in the Russian Army? What are we talking about now that we're in 2021?
Are there several soldiers within each maneuver platoon with NV optics?
Or several within each squad?
Or does every soldier within a platoon get NV optics?

But I'd really prefer sources writing about that issue, rather than random people chipping in with anecdotal evidence. News about contracts for NV optics would help a lot, if someone has those. Like "100 000" optic sets purchased in the year xxxx, to be delivered by 2020 or so. Stuff like that.

eridan wrote:Is there any source out there that tries to assess the level of proliferation of night vision optics in the Russian Army? What are we talking about now that we're in 2021?
Are there several soldiers within each maneuver platoon with NV optics?
Or several within each squad?
Or does every soldier within a platoon get NV optics?

But I'd really prefer sources writing about that issue, rather than random people chipping in with anecdotal evidence. News about contracts for NV optics would help a lot, if someone has those. Like "100 000" optic sets purchased in the year xxxx, to be delivered by 2020 or so. Stuff like that.

Good question, and a tough one to answer. It's rare that order documents for such stuff is shown around and instead we only saw of new expensive equipment like tanks or jets.

And I doubt we will see much in future after the recent push by mod to ban such release of information.

But first site to check would be rostec.ru as they own Schwab and Orion company whom one makes optics and the other makes the matrices for night vision/thermal/IR.

https://militaryleak.com/2021/01/03/rostec-delivers-almost-300000-units-of-ratnik-combat-equipment-to-russian-armed-forces/

There's this article. Apparently, during last 8 years, 300 thousand ratnik sets were delivered. Those include sets to navy infantry, army, as well as to vehicle crewmembers, such as tank crewmembers.

Now, I am not able to find if every single ratnik set includes night vision. Since it's a modular system with many pieces, it's likely that many different subvariants exist, for various needs.

eridan wrote:https://militaryleak.com/2021/01/03/rostec-delivers-almost-300000-units-of-ratnik-combat-equipment-to-russian-armed-forces/

There's this article. Apparently, during last 8 years, 300 thousand ratnik sets were delivered. Those include sets to navy infantry, army, as well as to vehicle crewmembers, such as tank crewmembers.

Now, I am not able to find if every single ratnik set includes night vision. Since it's a modular system with many pieces, it's likely that many different subvariants exist, for various needs.

Yes, true. And they are still implanting more but regarding old gear also has it but how many? Who knows.

My understanding is that the Ratnik set includes a monocular that can be attached to the helmet or held in your hand or attached to the new rifles with the rails on top where you put the night vision monocular in front of your day scope and use your day scopes aiming reticle.

The problem is that II scopes are fragile and easy to damage with bright light and their operational life span is not amazing and most of the time they wont need them, but actually with the new all weather day and night optics fitted to aircraft and drones and ground vehicles then training at night is going to increase dramatically.

A recent VDV airdrop whose video was shown recently... the thumbnail for the drop shows an Il-76 in flight at night through a thermal imager and the paratroops seemed to be equipped with NVG.

A few new technologies are coming in to play now however.

First of all uncooled third gen thermal imagers are getting cheaper and easier to make in volume and they can be used during the day as well as at night... during the day they can see through camouflage which makes them useful.

Second there is a movement to digital video cameras with IR and UV sensitivity and low light boosting processing that allow them to approach the performance of the better Image intensification sights, but without the limited tube life and able to work during daylight conditions with zoom and image processing functions.

Eventually these digital video chips will become rather cheap... widely used on new generation phones for instance, they offer a best of both worlds situation of low cost, long life, and good enough performance most of the time. They would not be damaged if exposed to camera flashes like Image Intensification scopes would and they offer a better clearer image making it easier to identify things than with thermals.

Having said that shortwave thermal imaging is also very interesting and can see through glass and water, so instead of expensive crystal lenses they can make them with much cheaper glass lenses and you can look through windows from inside a vehicle.

There was a thermal scope for Ratnik that had 7 lenses built in to it and was 1.5kgs in weight. With the new technology they reduced the lenses to two and the weight to 400 grammes, so a weight saving of 1.1kgs which is pretty amazing...

Was chatting to a guy at NPZ and they are working on digital night vision scopes right now, but he didn't say much about them for now...

This is their english language site:

http://www.npzoptics.com/

But their might be more information on their Russian language site... use a translator to find out:

http://www.npzoptics.ru/

Apart from VOMZ and NPZ, there is also another Russian scope manufacturer: DEDAL

https://dedalnvoptics.com/en/

I currently can't find info if regular russian recon troops use thermal imagers, or only spetznaz. I know russia has 2-3 thermal imager models, but I can't find their battery life. For infantry portability and battery life matters more for thermal imagers compared to range.


I'm also interested in seeing what kind of laser designators russians use. I know the orlan -10 has one, but we never see the drone equipped with one. Can russian artillery observers use portable laser designators, or do they have to radio in calculated coordinates(infered from camera images) to batteries for example?

We have seen in videos from Syria that Spetsnaz have thermal imagers and laser target markers, and their drones come with different payload packages that should include laser target markers... the main drivers of drones in the Soviet Union was the artillery that used bumblebee drones for finding targets, marking targets, and damage assessment for follow up attacks and fire correction.

When the French were considering buying Krasnopol-M 155mm laser guided shells one of the advantages was that the rounds were already compatible with French laser target marking equipment... though I believe LSOS mentioned they backed out of that deal in the end.

The other advantage was their low price compared with the US equivalent called Copperhead... which was a PITA.

Have there been any news that reported contracts for night vision goggles procurement?

Anything that would help deduce how many nvg sets might have russian military procured so far?