Russian made Scopes and Optics

Dedicated UV detectors?

No, I mean image intensification scopes.

Some of the better ones are sensitive to IR and UV, which are the frequencies either side of visible light.

IR simply means beyond red and UV means past violet.

In fact most digital cameras can detect IR already too as can digital video cameras.

Their sensors are not super cooled so they only detect active IR light, but is shows the principle.

Take your digital camera or video camera and get an IR remote control for your TV or stereo or whatever. Put the camera in record mode but you don't have to actually record and look through the view finder at the remote control and push a button on the remote.
Behind the black plastic panel on the front of your remote you will likely see a white flashing light... that is IR.

Russian operatives likely using credit cards to buy ultra cheap Night Vision at Cabela's in the United States then throwing it all in a boat and driving out to sea to meet with Russian Submarine to offload cargo.



Why?


Because it's FREE. Mega Billion Dollar Credit Card Fraud in the United States supplements many foreign operatives/militaries...criminal elements.


The United States has lost control of it's monetary system for some time now and has been robbed via this route for decades.

Actually CIA/NSA/DOD love this. It shows "sales" to keep economy going so US military officers and retired CIA can still keep getting retirement checks. Thus why no American can opt out of Credit Reporting Agencies to stop thieving Credit schemes....other people using their information to obtain credit.


Russia has paid 0$ for it's night vision. Half the FLIR's created in the US were scammed out of the country this way. Never paid for.

Russia has paid 0$ for it's night vision. Half the FLIR's created in the US were scammed out of the country this way. Never paid for.

Russia is not allowed to buy US night vision equipment... the good stuff they want is not for export, so they turn to Europe and buy French and Swedish and South African and even Israeli systems.

They tend to buy foreign thermal sights rather than foreign image intensification sights because generally western II systems are not that much better than Russian systems.

I should point out that with the breakup of the Soviet Union the Russians basically went through what the Soviets did during WWII when industry was moved beyond the Urals.

Russian tank makers suddenly found the soviet company that made their best diesel engines is now in the Ukraine, and that their heavy machineguns are also made in the Ukraine and their best night vision scopes are made in Belarus. Their solutions were simply to look behind former partners... why buy 1,000hp diesel engines from the UKraine for US dollars when you can create a joint venture with a western country and make a 1,200hp engine for the same price in US dollars. Utes can be replaced with the Russian Kord, which is a further improvement. Thermal sights from Belarus are mediocre compared with French thermals so a licence production deal is signed with France.

Like any other country in the world, if they can't buy it, they will pinch or emulate the technology themselves.

A very nice Russian optics website here:

http://www.npzoptics.com

This is the Novosibirsk instrument making plant or NZP.

If you look around their site you will see a range of interesting products, including the new Kayma image intensifier tube.

If you go to the website above and choose the "in progress" section of the production menu and scroll down to the bottom of that page you will see a link to the Kayma II tube.

What makes it so special is that it is a 2+ gen II tube that can handle 20000 lux without reduction in resolution.

In other words it is pretty much a day and night II tube that is small enough to install in most existing night vision goggles/sights.

With standard II tubes that can be used in daylight they have a large lens cover to put over the objective lens with a tiny pin hole to let light in. The view is not particularly good, but it means once zeroed the night scope can be safely used during the day too.

With this new II tube you wont need the cover and the image resolution during the day should provide a very good view.

An alternative is digital systems that use something like colour night shot on CCD cameras to allow full day and night use, which also can be found on the above website in the in progress section the PTO under night sights is a digital night vision system which should be rather cheaper than II scopes.

There are also laser pointers that can use both visible red and ir laser beams for use both without and with NVGs. (ie ZLN-2K)

There are also several laser rangefinders, including one that will measure from 100m to 15km. Of more interest to me however is the smaller LDM-2VK which can lase targets to 4km, but also has a bit of electronic wizardry inside that includes Glonass and GPS receivers, temperature and pressure sensors as well as the laser range finder and haptic sensors to measure the angle the equipment is held at.

With all this information it can measure distance and ambient temperature and atmospheric pressure, the elevation of the target and its coordinates. With this information it can calculate the required aiming corrections for a particular weapon to achieve a hit using distance to the target, elevation of the target, temperature and air pressure, direction and speed of the wind, ballistic coefficient of the ammo being used, muzzle velocity of the ammo being used and its weight, calibre and pitch and direction of rifling of the bore of the weapon being used, and sight elevation over the barrel.

Using all this information, some automatically collected and some entered by the user/hunter/sniper this laser rangefinder can determine the coordinates of the target, determine the targets speed, generate an aim point that should ensure a hit.

Takes 4 AA batteries and weighs less than 1.5kgs.

There are also several thermal imagers for hand held use and as weapon scopes.

Hey everyone, I was wondering what the Russian Army issues as its standard optic for the Ak-74. Actually I just want to know if they issue red dot sights (Cobra/PK-A) or telescopic sights. Example= The U.S. Army's standard issue optic is mostly the ACOG. I am an American and I own an Ak-74 and the muzzle brake is so loud and bright that I can't maintain focus with iron sights. In ROTC we use M4's with iron sights, does the Russian Army just go with Iron Sights normally? If any of you have any experience in the Russian/ComBloc combat forces, then what is your personal preference? I'm sorry if this question is too simple but I just figured the best people to ask about how to use an AK-74 would be the Russians or Russian military enthusiasts.

Hi epicrecon93 welcome to the forum... BTW it is a forum rule that your first post is an introduction in the "members rules and introductions section"... obviously too late for you to do that now, but that is OK.
When you do post an introduction please take the time to look at the rules posts and also perhaps have a read through the introductions of some other members so you have an idea of whom you are talking to and also perhaps what to say in your intro thread. (note you need to post your own separate intro thread rather than post to someone elses thread.)
Regards GarryB as a mod.

GarryB as a member would like to say welcome to the forum and in response to your question, I have never served in the military and get my knowledge of the Russian military from photos and books and videos and the internet.

With that in mind optics are not widely issued in the Russian military... in your average platoon the SVD operator and the RPG operator will have scopes for their weapons but the average soldier is rather more likely to have an underbarrel grenade launcher than a scope.

I have seen sniper videos where a sniper team consisting of a soldier with an SVD with scope and a soldier with an AK-74 with the same PSO-1 scope fitted were shown, so I suspect that unlike in platoons that their actual sniper teams of GRU special forces units might use scopes on AKs when operating with snipers.

The new super soldier gear called Ratnik includes scopes and the new firearms that go with the new gear will be equipped with rail mounts so in the future night vision optics will be standard and fairly widely deployed, but for now it will largely be only special forces on specific missions that use optics.

Previously they weren't trained to engage targets at long ranges, or those that were were already provided with optics on the weapons optimised for the longer range like the SVD and RPG-7.

Now that they are introducing snipers in the western sense and also seem to be focusing on accuracy and range with small arms I suspect the number of optics issued will dramatically increase.

It is important to keep in mind also that troops in conflict zones are generally given more scope for adding their own kit if you will excuse the pun.

Troops in Afghanistan were more likely to get hold of a scope than those in the Soviet Union, but of course scopes are generally fragile things and things with batteries don't really last very long in cold conditions... there is no point in spending all your money on some flash red dot sight if you can't get batteries, or the ammo issued is not accurate enough to warrant a scope.

The open iron sights of the Soviet/Russian weapons allow a better sight picture than the peep western iron sights so there is less need for a scope in many situations.

Certainly a scope makes shooting easier... for those that only have experience with firearms in computer games the human eye is a magnificent piece of engineering but can't focus on more than one thing at once so with a Russian iron sight you position your head on the rear stock (called a cheek wield) so that you are always looking directly down the sights and you focus your vision on the front iron sight and shoot at a blurry target.

Why focus on the front sight and not the target? Because the front sight tells you where your bullets should hit and that is what is important.

With good shooting technique and good head placement it is fairly straight forward to hit targets but it takes a lot of practise.

Western peep iron sights are easier in that you are looking through a hole at the front sight so your eye is automatically aligning the front and rear sights so all you have to do is place the clear sharp front iron sight on the part of the blurry moving target or a point in front of it and then shoot.

Obviously a scope makes everything much easier because you are looking through a tube with your point of aim in focus that you are placing onto a target that is also in focus and possibly magnified... much much easier.

With the new AKs being developed... all of which seem to have rails for multiple optics, I suspect in the near future the Russian Army will have at the very least a standard optic that is likely night capable and might get to the point where several members including the Snipers or designated marksmen might have thermal sights with laser rangefinders and ballistic computers built in.

Note I think I have read that the AK12SN will be the rifle put forward this time to the Army which will likely be a modular family of small arms optimised for standard use and special forces use too.

I suspect one modular parameter will include separate "uppers" and "lowers" that I have discussed previously on this forum.

Very simply you would have a light, medium, and heavy lower that will form the basis of a SMG, an Assault Rifle or Shotgun, and a sniper rifle/LMG/DMR.

For each size lower there will be a range of barrel lengths and calibres and mechanisms that will be interchangable.

With the light lower fitted with a range of uppers in 9x19mm and 9x21mm and perhaps even .22lr (for training) for a range of purposes with short and medium and long length barrels as sub machine guns to replace the Bizon/Vityaz-SN/MP5 class weapons and perhaps with long barrel as a sniper semi auto replacement for the SV-99.

The medium weight/size lower can be used in short barrel, standard barrel and long barrel in 5.45 x 39mm and 9 x 39mm calibres and also 12 gauge for AKS-74U, AK-74, Saiga-12, AS, VSS, and RPK-74 replacement use... in the small calibre long barrel form a belt feed mechanism could be used to increase fire capacity.

The heavy weight/size lower could be fitted with short, medium, and long barrel uppers in 6 x 49mm and 7.62 x 54mm and indeed perhaps 10 gauge and 12.7 x 55mm calibre and could have box and belt feed options to cover roles like the SVD and PKP as well as the VSSK.

For the average soldier the modularity would not mean much as it is very unlikely a rifleman will be required to suddenly be the LMG operator or sniper.

Soldiers will not go into combat with 10 different calibres and 10 different barrel lengths.

For a special forces soldier however having an AK12 with a long barrel in 5.45mm calibre with a good scope and accurate ammo and then when they get to the urban target area can swap the barrel for a short handy barrel fitted with an integral suppressor in 9 x 39mm calibre that is quiet and has a zeroed scope fitted to do a quiet job and then swap back to the high velocity longer ranged 5.45mm ammo on the way back would be invaluable.

Needless to say if the new ammo for use underwater can be used in the AK12 as well as the ADS then it means a Naval Spetsnaz soldier can use one gun with two or perhaps three barrel options instead of having to lug around 3 or 4 different weapons. It also means they are training on the one weapon rather than multiple.

Well as far I have noticed that in Russian army optics for unassigned riflemen aren't that widespread.
Russian climate is a real test for optics and cheap ones have hard time surviving. For the size of Russian army expensive ones are out of question.
To equip all soldiers with decent scopes is not really a priority at the moment anyways. And I'm not sure if Russian manufacturers have capability to mass produce en mass. Russian optic industry was pretty much destroyed and only started recovering recently.
It's better to have no optics than low quality ones. Even Hensoldt Dual Optics that came with G36 proved to be useless in winter and we chose G36 with no optics instead.  Our eastern neighbour has even harsher winters.

Check out this awesome video:




Points of note... it mentions that the foreign super soldier systems are optimised for special forces... which emphasises that the kit they are developing is intended for all Russian soldiers not just elite forces... though elite forces will likely get them first I suspect if they haven't got them already.

Other things of interest... the PKP turned out to be more accurate than the FN MAG, and the body armour test was interesting...

We have been asked about Russian body armour and its performance compared with western models and I think this video test shows the reality.

Be careful however to see what actually happens as both sets of body armour have trauma plates and the reason the US armour is pierced is because the bullet missed the trauma plate, so don't see this as the Russian armour is better than the US armour... this is a case of both armour types providing similar levels of protection but that both only give full power rifle bullet protection over a very small area of the centre chest and that a gut shot will penetrate both vests.

This video is from 2012 and we now know that they are delaying its introduction for the new (modular) weapon family if it passes the tests.

I guess it makes sense to introduce it all as one package... especially when it includes things like optics that can be mounted on the helmet as a night vision device, on their rifle as a telescopic sight or hand held as a monocular... having a rifle with simple day optics and a rail system would allow night use simply by mounting the night vision optic in front of the day optic so the day optics reticule can be used for aiming without needing to be rezeroed.

I think only UK army are practicing shooting only through optics, might be wrong. Optics are cool and all until You have to use them in field. Then the crappy ones only hinder You.

It is very much like modern navigation... training with a compass and a map is ideal, but in the field a good scope that suits your needs and isn't too fragile actually makes things much easier.

You can't have soldiers that can't shoot with iron sights, but accuracy and range and ease of use optics are a huge boost to shooting performance.

Obviously if they need batteries or to be handled like kid gloves then they are not worth it but even with x1 magnification they make it much easier to shoot... especially with high velocity flat shooting calibres.

With the Russian optics companies getting more experience with QWIP based sensor chips the development of cheap night vision devices becomes more realistic with optics able to combine the features of thermal and Image Intensification and day video to create a digital night vision device that will be very hard to hide from.

No such thing as standard optics. Closest to standard may be PSO-1 scope. But really, in the end, they use what the missions state for. I remember on MP.net, a while back, there was a photo of a suitcase with various gear for the standard soldier and I remember seeing optic of some sort optic but it really isn't standard but something for specialty case (missions that may use it). Although I think it may have been night optics.

There are so many different types of optics, and various ones I have seen in Russian photos for training and or use. Anything with Gen 1 night vision to Gen 3, etc etc.

When Ratnik comes into play, we will then see a standard optic or two.

The AK12 system will likely retain its top rail configuration so a standard day optic based on a low magnification scope might become a standard feature... the new standard rifles (ie AK-74M) all have side rails as standard which suggests an interest on increasing the number of scope deployed.

Here is an example:

http://optical-devices.ru/kollimatory-rossiya/pricel-kollimatornyi-rakurs-a.html

The PK-A is about 11K rubles, which makes it about $400 NZ... as a red dot sight that is reasonable enough... this one mounts the side rail of standard Russian rifles, but there will likely be new models designed to fit the piccatiny rails they seem to be adopting.

The same company makes a holographic sight:

http://www.1001optika.ru/products/pritsel_kollimator_ekp_8_16_izh_27_izh_94_sever

and at 10K rubles it is is about $390 NZ dollars...

This site has a few scopes including a red dot sight and the new optics for the Dragunov http://www.zenit-foto.ru/en/

How they compare to western made models is unknown to me but they exist and are likely to become more widely available over time

Thanks Guys for all the help and insight. This AK74 isn't like shooting any of my hunting rifles. It made me open my eyes to Russian ingenuity (the muzzle brake and operation did mostly). I don't think the western world gives them enough credit for how great their military hardware is. I will probably save my money and buy 2 more cases of 5.45 instead of a optic. Besides, if I'm shooting at long at ranges, that's when my 7mm Magnum comes in.

Optics make shooting easier, but for the cost and complication and of course weight sometimes a bit more ammo makes more sense...

With the issue of AK-74M rifles the current optic you would normally have on an AK... I personally would go for:

http://www.zenit-foto.ru/en/production-kmz/54-english/produktsiya-eng/731-po-3-10x40

And also:

http://www.zenit-foto.ru/en/production-kmz/54-english/produktsiya-eng/729-pkm-1x25

They seem to offer the mounting brackets required for both scopes.

The PO 3-10x40mm scope looks like it is a civilian version of the PSO-1 scope but with variable power from x3 to x10 magnification... which means it should be fine with any calibre Russian rifle from 5.45mm through to 7.62 x 54mm. I personally prefer to shoot at the lowest power setting possible as it makes the rifle easier to hold steady.

To this end the PKM scope at 1 x 25mm would be handy for close in shooting in light calibres.

Actually now I am seriously considering sending them an email and finding out how much it might cost to get some of these scopes sent to NZ.

Now that I have bought a PMM air pistol I have asked the shop I bought it from to see if they can get other pistols from the same company... if they can get them OK I might look at buying a Toz-122 in .223, or perhaps a Bars-4-1 in 7.62 x 39mm calibre or perhaps the new MP-142K in .223 and 7.62 x 39mm and 7.62 x 54mm calibre if they have those calibre options.

BTW another good place to look for new Russian optics would be:

http://www.npzoptics.ru/

or more accurately:

http://www.npzoptics.com/

in English...



If you note in the menu to the left things in development are included and under special production they include older stuff like the 1PN58 (NSPUM-2)
and 1PN51 (NSPU-3)... note on this page:

http://www.npzoptics.com/catalog/earlier_issued_production/1pn51_nspu-3/

is the service manual for the scope in pdf file format.

This page has the standard day sights I have seen used on Russian military rifles... including the PSO-1 and 1P29 that I have seen mounted on AKs:

http://www.npzoptics.com/catalog/sights_for_small_arms/

what kind of sight does that ak-12 have???

slice! wrote:

what kind of sight does that ak-12 have???

Collimator.

What's interesting is that it kind of looks like an Elcan, but not quite. If anyone can ID the make and model that would be appreciated. I really hope this isn't a Chinese knock off or something.

Zivo wrote:

what kind of sight does that ak-12 have???

I don't remember the name of the sight, but it's made by Dedal-NV in Russia. Here's a link to their website

http://nightvision.ru/en/

It's not exactly a copy of the Elcan, but it's clearly inspired by it.

What's interesting is that it kind of looks like an Elcan, but not quite. If anyone can ID the make and model that would be appreciated. I really hope this isn't a Chinese knock off or something.

Not likely Chinese knockoff... if it is similar to a western equivalent that is likely because it was designed for the same reasons and the same purposes which often results in similar solutions.

Having said that the Russians are not stupid and will copy good ideas but only very rarely will they actually copy them exactly as they wont try to pass them off as the original so there is no need to make an exact replica either.

The Russians will tend to talk about when they are inspired by western designs... the Strike-1 pistol is a good example where they admit they based their design on the Glock and tried to improve upon it.

In other cases like the DC-3 and Maxim Machine gun they will licence produce a domestic model where they pay for property rights to do so... or as during the cold war they just emulated what they decided was useful without property rights like the Sidewinder missile.

Of course it is not all one way... it is certainly no accident that the Bradley combat vehicle has the same layout as the BMP-2 and the F-15 has the same layout as the Mig-25.

The Elcan runs about $2,000, which in my opinion is robbery. That is really expensive even compared to similar high-end products.

Having said that the Russians are not stupid and will copy good ideas but only very rarely will they actually copy them exactly as they wont try to pass them off as the original so there is no need to make an exact replica either.

I'm thinking that's the case with this optic.

The Russians will tend to talk about when they are inspired by western designs... the Strike-1 pistol is a good example where they admit they based their design on the Glock and tried to improve upon it.

It's better to admit that out of the gate than to be on the receiving end of a Glock... lawsuit. They seem to be going patent crazy lately.


I just hope the quality is there, and at an affordable price. Russian optics are usually well built. The more of them on the market, the better.

http://nightvision.ru/en/catalog/4/item/152

http://www.npzoptics.com/catalog/day_sights/psu/

These seem pretty close...

Note the npz site has a historical section showing existing and previous military sights they made:

http://www.npzoptics.com/catalog/special_products/

Down the left side, the sub list of categories... ie sights for small arms:

http://www.npzoptics.com/catalog/sights_for_small_arms/

And current night sights:

http://www.npzoptics.com/catalog/night_sights_1/

With previous generation sights listed on this page:

http://www.npzoptics.com/catalog/earlier_issued_production/

Just want to know from GarryB and some one knowledgeble , How much valid is RT 20 points and counter argument by ArmenT in link below

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4016&p=1564404#p1564404