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Then all western elites were screaming "this is neo-colonialism"!!! And an african guy answered: "No. We know colonialism. This is different."
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68 posters
Talking bollocks thread #2
Hole- Posts : 11111
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LMFS- Posts : 5158
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Totally, I happen to have first hand experience with this colonial/slavery mindset and it is nothing short of mind blowing. The arrogance and self entitlement, mixed with the hatred and humiliation of being ruled by their former servants they are used to treat as their property makes these people capable of anything. They take their superiority as a divine right and are not going to back down unless utterly defeated. Way too much pride to swallow.JohninMK wrote:Some see it as a descendants of Spanish colonialists (backed by the descendants of US colonialists) verses the native Indians conflict.
kvs
kvs- Posts : 15842
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LMFS wrote:Totally, I happen to have first hand experience with this colonial/slavery mindset and it is nothing short of mind blowing. The arrogance and self entitlement, mixed with the hatred and humiliation of being ruled by their former servants they are used to treat as their property makes these people capable of anything. They take their superiority as a divine right and are not going to back down unless utterly defeated. Way too much pride to swallow.JohninMK wrote:Some see it as a descendants of Spanish colonialists (backed by the descendants of US colonialists) verses the native Indians conflict.
I don't know what sin the New World aboriginals committed that they have been subjected to genocide and repression by European slavers
and oppressors. The world is truly a f*cked up place.
Maybe it is time for Russia and others to start fighting for aboriginal rights in the New World. In the case of Venezuela, there is no way
that any fair election could have stacked the legislature with elitist maggots. Any Latin American regime dominated by the minority
Hispano clique is dictatorship by definition (e.g. Bolivia). In this metric Venezuela is has more freedom than any of the US supported regimes.
Although in the case of Argentina the aboriginal population was exterminated for the most part (c.f. Patagonians).
Note how Russians are supposed to carry the "guilt" of being the victims of communism decades after 1930s, but in the case of aboriginal
genocide by Americans, well, "that's in the past". FOAD.
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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The Russian Cossacks & Army/Navy suppressed Siberian & Alaskan natives too, with much brutality:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia#Indigenous_population_loss
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia#Indigenous_population_loss
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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That's not what the natives out here say, which had experience with Russians.
Oh, now it makes sense.
according to Western historian Stephen Shenfield.
Oh, now it makes sense.
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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Where at?miketheterrible wrote:That's not what the natives out here say, which had experience with Russians.
The Russians provided slaves & were paying tribute to the Mongols/Tartars for 300+ years, so it's no surprise that after they defeated the Siberian Khaganate & moved East, the yasak was levied on the conquered, which was the trend of the times. They used the natives as slaves on their own land, instead of shipping & selling them abroad.
kvs- Posts : 15842
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Tsavo Lion wrote:The Russian Cossacks & Army/Navy suppressed Siberian & Alaskan natives too, with much brutality:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia#Indigenous_population_loss
Yeah, sure. I guess that is why Russia has no aboriginal reservation camps like Canada and the US and has ethnic
republics like Sakha instead. Please explain that with your BS equivalence theory. In Argentina, the Patagonian
people were completely exterminated. I dare you to give an similar example in Russia.
I have noticed this revisionist BS elsewhere. David Suzuki the Canadian environmentalist hosted a program where
he claimed the ethnic minorities in Russia's north such as Laplanders were "repressed". That is thick and rich coming from a
f*cking Canadian. Canada tried to actively exterminate aboriginal language and culture via residential schools
where young aboriginals were beaten for talking in their native language. On top of that there was rampant sexual
and physical abuse. Russia never once had anything like residential schools. There was never any policy of
assimilation no matter how revisionist western blood libelers try to claim that there was. Russia was always
a multi-ethnic state.
Then we have the cherry on top of Suzuki's turd cake. In Canada there were famines among the Inuit during the 1940s
and 1950s. Read Farley Mowat's books. Mowat has been demonized by revisionists who want the world to forget these events
and launder Canada's dirty history. Even during the 1930s there were no famines among Russia's Inuit and aboriginals.
In fact, forced collectivization famines affected ethnic Russians in the Donbass, Volga and Kazakhstan. The western
Ukrainian Holodomor hoaxers were under Polish rule during the 1930s and never lived through any famines.
Looks like Tsavo Lion is a NATO propaganda drone. Take your fake history and spread among your "enlightened" tribe.
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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kvs wrote:Tsavo Lion wrote:The Russian Cossacks & Army/Navy suppressed Siberian & Alaskan natives too, with much brutality:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia#Indigenous_population_loss
Yeah, sure. I guess that is why Russia has no aboriginal reservation camps like Canada and the US and has ethnic
republics like Sakha instead. Please explain that with your BS equivalence theory. In Argentina, the Patagonian
people were completely exterminated. I dare you to give an similar example in Russia.
I have noticed this revisionist BS elsewhere. David Suzuki the Canadian environmentalist hosted a program where
he claimed the ethnic minorities in Russia's north such as Laplanders were "repressed". That is thick and rich coming from a
f*cking Canadian. Canada tried to actively exterminate aboriginal language and culture via residential schools
where young aboriginals were beaten for talking in their native language. On top of that there was rampant sexual
and physical abuse. Russia never once had anything like residential schools. There was never any policy of
assimilation no matter how revisionist western blood libelers try to claim that there was. Russia was always
a multi-ethnic state.
Then we have the cherry on top of Suzuki's turd cake. In Canada there were famines among the Inuit during the 1940s
and 1950s. Read Farley Mowat's books. Mowat has been demonized by revisionists who want the world to forget these events
and launder Canada's dirty history. Even during the 1930s there were no famines among Russia's Inuit and aboriginals.
In fact, forced collectivization famines affected ethnic Russians in the Donbass, Volga and Kazakhstan. The western
Ukrainian Holodomor hoaxers were under Polish rule during the 1930s and never lived through any famines.
Looks like Tsavo Lion is a NATO propaganda drone. Take your fake history and spread among your "enlightened" tribe.
And this is something that Tsavos Moron doesn't seem to understand.
Natives do not have any issue at all in Russia. On contrary, they work in collaboration with Russians quite well and are regarded quite highly in society. But he wouldn't know that cause he is getting his info from western sources on wikipedia. But that comes as no surprise, the guy comes off as a complete retard.
Tsavo Lion wrote:Where at?miketheterrible wrote:That's not what the natives out here say, which had experience with Russians.
Canadian natives have stories of the "white skinned, blue eyed "Natives"" out here because of their dealings with Russians who came to Alaska. They were rather highly regarded and natives out in Canada have more respect for us ethnic eastern Europeans than British do. If you have not caught it by now, I am in Canada.
It comes as no surprise you rely upon western based education sources. When it comes as no surprise that the British government has been found out for their Initiative whatever its called where they are funding organizations for anti Russian mentality. Even wikipedia where they call Guiedo the current president of Venezuela.
Might I suggest you just quit and delete your account?
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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I'm not pro-NATO, read my posts on other threads. However, to be objective, I get info. from different sources. There's no such thing as benevolent empire, & Russia isn't exception.
Some peoples were exterminated, by intention or not, while others survived. Those who did were incorporated & many of them lost much of their original culture:
https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1918-to-1980/russia-1900-to-1939/russification/
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/151025
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP12.HTM
The absence of US or Canada style reservations isn't necessarily a good thing. Some ethnic groups may have autonomic status but they r not that well protected from the dominant culture, ecenomy & political/judicial system. I met & spoke to 1 Udege man who told me in 1986 that they wear nylon jackets in winter in their homeland on the way to work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udege_people
https://lib.ohchr.org/HRBodies/UPR/Documents/Session4/RU/RAIPON_IWGIA_RUS_UPR_S4_2009anx_Indigenous_Peoples_Russia_RAIPON_INFOE_2008.pdf
Some peoples were exterminated, by intention or not, while others survived. Those who did were incorporated & many of them lost much of their original culture:
https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1918-to-1980/russia-1900-to-1939/russification/
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/151025
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP12.HTM
The absence of US or Canada style reservations isn't necessarily a good thing. Some ethnic groups may have autonomic status but they r not that well protected from the dominant culture, ecenomy & political/judicial system. I met & spoke to 1 Udege man who told me in 1986 that they wear nylon jackets in winter in their homeland on the way to work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udege_people
https://lib.ohchr.org/HRBodies/UPR/Documents/Session4/RU/RAIPON_IWGIA_RUS_UPR_S4_2009anx_Indigenous_Peoples_Russia_RAIPON_INFOE_2008.pdf
Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
Hole- Posts : 11111
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The minorities in Russia still live where there ancestors lived hundreds/thousands of years ago and are allowed to live the way they want. They are also supported by the state.
There were battles in Siberia and central asia as both sides hadn´t figured out how to live together.
There were battles in Siberia and central asia as both sides hadn´t figured out how to live together.
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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Read the links I posted...are allowed to live the way they want.
The best lands were taken over by the Russian & Ukrainian settlers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakha_Republic#Russian_conquest
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buryatia#History
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amur_Oblast#17th_century-1850s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magadan_Oblast#History
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chukotka_Autonomous_Okrug#Russian_exploration_and_conquest
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamchatka_Oblast
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koryak_Okrug
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khabarovsk_Krai
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primorsky_Krai#History
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ainu_in_Russia
LMFS- Posts : 5158
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Civilization is based on the organized use of violence to control and integrate each timer bigger territories and populations, there is no way around this we like it or not. That being said, there are many ways of doing this. Anglo-Saxon cultures that never mixed with the "inferior races" and simply annihilated natives without other interest than replacing them have essentially nothing to say about other civilizations that mixed and at least didn't go on an all-out on extermination quest of the original populations, but they are interestingly the ones making more noise about this issue...with no problems with the natives to address at home themselves since they conveniently eliminated them already. Do what I say but not what I do
kvs- Posts : 15842
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Wikipedia is not an objective source. It is edited 24/7 by interested parties and you can see revisionism in real time. No narrative
that goes against the NATO agenda will ever be found on Wikipedia.
So, TS, either cite the original sources or GTFO.
I also want to know from which paradise does this clown originate that he pretends his country has no history of minority abuse
in the past.
I will repeat: Russia never ethnically cleansed aboriginals from their lands and onto reservation camps. Don't invoke Chechens or
Crimean Tatars as "proof" of the opposite. During WWII they allied themselves with the Nazis who were in the process of carrying
out genocide against Russians. So Stalin, the ethnic Georgian, decide to deport them away from the front lines. As anyone
with a clue knows both the Crimean Tatars and Chechens have come back home. Their experience was tragic, but not as tragic
as that of New World aboriginals.
that goes against the NATO agenda will ever be found on Wikipedia.
So, TS, either cite the original sources or GTFO.
I also want to know from which paradise does this clown originate that he pretends his country has no history of minority abuse
in the past.
I will repeat: Russia never ethnically cleansed aboriginals from their lands and onto reservation camps. Don't invoke Chechens or
Crimean Tatars as "proof" of the opposite. During WWII they allied themselves with the Nazis who were in the process of carrying
out genocide against Russians. So Stalin, the ethnic Georgian, decide to deport them away from the front lines. As anyone
with a clue knows both the Crimean Tatars and Chechens have come back home. Their experience was tragic, but not as tragic
as that of New World aboriginals.
Walther von Oldenburg- Posts : 1725
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Actually deportations spared both Volga Germans and Crimean Tatars a lot of casualties. Without deportations a lot of them would have ended conscriptedin the Red Arny or collaborating with the Germans. The death toll would have been much higher.
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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If u don't like WP in English, find the corresponding pages in Russian & then google translate them. At the bottom, sources r listed- check them for any discrepancies with the text. If some troll incorrectly edited it, others will correct it. Besides, NATO isn't an omnipresent entity or reference point in the history of Russia/USSR; it appeared after 1945.So, TS, either cite the original sources or GTFO.
I also want to know from which paradise does this clown originate that he pretends his country has no history of minority abuse
in the past.
Where did I state that my country "has no history of minority abuse
in the past"?
Nenets were also abused: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nenets_people#History_and_way_of_life
Those eligible for conscription were all conscripted, incl. ethnic Germans & Crimean Tartars, many of whom were decorated, some became Heroes of the SU.Without deportations a lot of them would have ended conscripted in the Red Army..
..an additional 316,600 Soviet Germans served as labour conscripts during World War II. Soviet Germans were not accepted in the regular armed forces but were employed instead as conscript labour. The labour army members were arranged into worker battalions that followed camp-like regulations and received Gulag rations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2%80%931950)#Soviet_Union_and_annexed_territories
The Assyrians, Iranians, Koreans, Balkars & Greeks were also exiled:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_settlements_in_the_Soviet_Union#Iranians_and_Assyrians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_Koreans_in_the_Soviet_Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Kabardino-Balkaria#Russian_and_Soviet_rule
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks_in_Russia_and_the_Soviet_Union#Soviet_Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Operation_of_the_NKVD
The list is long:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_settlements_in_the_Soviet_Union
Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:35 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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Time for GarryB or George1 to clean this thread up! Take all these unnecessary posts and stick em' in the harry bollocks thread!
GarryB- Posts : 40489
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Sorry Tsavo... but please don't post anything from the UK regarding minority rights:
https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1918-to-1980/russia-1900-to-1939/russification/
This is just bullshit.
The British invented concentration camps... and when it comes to mistreating minorities you would be pretty hard pressed to find worse offenders than the major colonial powers of the west.
Just watch the first episode of the Beverly Hillbillies... it was humour, but it was also biting satire that most Americans didn't understand.
(For those not familiar it is a TV show about backwater hillbillies finding oil and becoming rich and moving to beverly hills... lots of humour about simple folk and rich folk and their differences and their judgements. When the first arrive a local rich woman wants to talk to the head of the family to find out which boat their family came to america on... it is explained to him that the earlier the boat the higher his families standing in society (rich society that is) will be. He makes the obvious comment that that means the Indians must be at the top... to which the shocked woman says... no no... not at all... you see rules are different for rich white people and darkies... )
Of course many parts of the programme are intended to make these simple folk appear foolish, but just as often it shows how fooling rich people are too.
Will do.
https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1918-to-1980/russia-1900-to-1939/russification/
This is just bullshit.
The British invented concentration camps... and when it comes to mistreating minorities you would be pretty hard pressed to find worse offenders than the major colonial powers of the west.
Just watch the first episode of the Beverly Hillbillies... it was humour, but it was also biting satire that most Americans didn't understand.
(For those not familiar it is a TV show about backwater hillbillies finding oil and becoming rich and moving to beverly hills... lots of humour about simple folk and rich folk and their differences and their judgements. When the first arrive a local rich woman wants to talk to the head of the family to find out which boat their family came to america on... it is explained to him that the earlier the boat the higher his families standing in society (rich society that is) will be. He makes the obvious comment that that means the Indians must be at the top... to which the shocked woman says... no no... not at all... you see rules are different for rich white people and darkies... )
Of course many parts of the programme are intended to make these simple folk appear foolish, but just as often it shows how fooling rich people are too.
Time for GarryB or George1 to clean this thread up! Take all these unnecessary posts and stick em' in the harry bollocks thread!
Will do.
kvs- Posts : 15842
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Ah, the UK.
The UK implemented a policy similar to the residential schools in Canada aimed at wiping out the Welsh identity. We had the same
beating of children for speaking in Welsh, etc. Russia never had such grotesque policies. Anyone from the UK trying to get on some moral
high horse vis a vis Russia is full of shit. The Russian empire never baited ethnic groups each other as the UK did in Canada in the case
of the Mohawks and the Hurons. As a result the Hurons were exterminated. That genocide the is the fault of the UK. In Sri Lanka
the UK used the Tamils as a proxy against Hindus with the ensuing century of ethnic strife.
The UK implemented a policy similar to the residential schools in Canada aimed at wiping out the Welsh identity. We had the same
beating of children for speaking in Welsh, etc. Russia never had such grotesque policies. Anyone from the UK trying to get on some moral
high horse vis a vis Russia is full of shit. The Russian empire never baited ethnic groups each other as the UK did in Canada in the case
of the Mohawks and the Hurons. As a result the Hurons were exterminated. That genocide the is the fault of the UK. In Sri Lanka
the UK used the Tamils as a proxy against Hindus with the ensuing century of ethnic strife.
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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That doesn't mean that everything they say about this particular issue isn't true or partially true.The British invented concentration camps... and when it comes to mistreating minorities you would be pretty hard pressed to find worse offenders than the major colonial powers of the west.
Not all of them!As a result the Hurons were exterminated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyandot_people#History
J.F. Cooper wrote his "The Last of the Mohicans" novel, but their descendants still live in the USA:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahican#Representation_in_media
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohegan
Other tribes weren't as lucky:
http://top-10-list.org/2011/11/04/top-10-native-tribes-who-faced-extinction/
The Brits had a policy of apartheid that originated with Germanic Anglo-Saxons, but the Mongols, Chinese, Spanish, Portuguese, French, Romans/Italians & Russians needed as many of the natives alive as possible so they could be exploited, incorporated & assimilated to make their empires stronger.
By the time of the Ivan IV (Terrible), & even more so the Peter I, the Russians already had strong admixture of Tartar (who themselves had taken Ks of Slavic captives) blood in their veins.
As they expanded East, rapes & intermarriages were common, producing new half breeds.
Western/Central Europeans incl. French POVs, & Baltic & other Germans were also assimilated- Mother Russia had room for them all. Catherine II was German herself.
GarryB- Posts : 40489
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That doesn't mean that everything they say about this particular issue isn't true or partially true.
The purpose of the concentration camps was to "convert" the Boer women and children... they were brutal, and had the sole purpose of turning the enemy into friendlies or they die...
PapaDragon- Posts : 13463
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LMFS wrote:Better idea: sell it to Pakistan and let them show India how stealth it ismagnumcromagnon wrote:Indian comedy guys....
India has urged Russia to prove that the su-57 fighter-"invisible"
.....
Are you trying to win Vlad Tepes Overkill Award?
Even F-16 is too much stealth for India, Su-57 would be torture porn
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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In the US, Indian reservations were in that category & appeared earlier.The British invented concentration camps...
https://www.history.com/topics/native-american-history/indian-reservations
Hitler & Himmler learned a lesson from that.
As an exception to the rule, Canada under the British was a lot less violent than the US in its Indian(Native American, or Aboriginal) policy. The RCMP handled all disputes & tried to arrest only the "guilty parties", instead attacking entire camps like the US Cavalry did. There, better named "reserves" were established.
After the 1867 purchase, Alaska Natives had it easy, as there was no big influx of White immigrants willing to settle there as in the lower 48.
History shows that all big countries (by population & territory), even not formal empires, r won & held together by force.
GarryB- Posts : 40489
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In the US, Indian reservations were in that category & appeared earlier.
Concentration camp =/= Reservation or Reserved native lands... the key is who is in control and who runs the places and the purpose of the places... and conditions thereof.
Or are you suggesting being at Summer camp and in an insane asylum are the same thing... while their might be similarities I can assure you there are also fundamental differences too...
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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I know far a fact that although they declare Indian Nations independent, Federal & state laws still apply there. The state of New York tried to tax tobacco sales to non-Indians but the state police was prevented from enforcing it.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newyork-tobacco-idUSTRE74865R20110509
The Natives always fight for their rights in USA.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-05-13-mn-1674-story.html
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/226387/AGENTS-HELD-THEN-RELEASED-AFTER-CASINO-RAID.html
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/227932/ARIZONA-INDIANS-FEDERAL-OFFICIALS-STILL-IN-STANDOFF.html
The pipeline saga isn't over yet:
https://apnews.com/081cb7ff366549fb996ffec970fe0684
https://www.narf.org/cases/keystone/
R there Maori lands not subject to NZ laws & Wellington?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newyork-tobacco-idUSTRE74865R20110509
The Natives always fight for their rights in USA.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-05-13-mn-1674-story.html
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/226387/AGENTS-HELD-THEN-RELEASED-AFTER-CASINO-RAID.html
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/227932/ARIZONA-INDIANS-FEDERAL-OFFICIALS-STILL-IN-STANDOFF.html
The pipeline saga isn't over yet:
https://apnews.com/081cb7ff366549fb996ffec970fe0684
https://www.narf.org/cases/keystone/
R there Maori lands not subject to NZ laws & Wellington?
Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:42 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
Austin- Posts : 7617
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Looks like some personal opinion of some unknown defence analyst .....In India you find dime a dozen defence analyst who can comment on every topic under the sun
India will likely purchase Su-57 when the money is available , Direct Purchase no JV , They certainly need to replace Su-30 at some point and they will need few squadrons of heavy fighter.
India will likely purchase Su-57 when the money is available , Direct Purchase no JV , They certainly need to replace Su-30 at some point and they will need few squadrons of heavy fighter.