Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #2

zg18 wrote:

Su-34 operations near Raqqa and Aleppo

Not a pin point accuracy, but still good hits.

Monarchist wrote:

Just look at those inbred wahabi faces.  And these are the "moderates"...

These idiots make these statements and go hide, cowards.

How America can counter Putin’s moves in Syria

By Condoleezza Rice and Robert M. Gates



Condoleezza Rice was secretary of state from 2005 to 2009. Robert M. Gates was defense secretary from 2006 to 2011.

One can hear the disbelief in capitals from Washington to London to Berlin to Ankara and beyond. How can Vladimir Putin, with a sinking economy and a second-rate military, continually dictate the course of geopolitical events? Whether it’s in Ukraine or Syria, the Russian president seems always to have the upper hand.

Sometimes the reaction is derision: This is a sign of weakness. Or smugness: He will regret the decision to intervene. Russia cannot possibly succeed. Or alarm: This will make an already bad situation worse. And, finally, resignation: Perhaps the Russians can be brought along to help stabilize the situation, and we could use help fighting the Islamic State.

The fact is that Putin is playing a weak hand extraordinarily well because he knows exactly what he wants to do. He is not stabilizing the situation according to our definition of stability. He is defending Russia’s interests by keeping Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in power. This is not about the Islamic State. Any insurgent group that opposes Russian interests is a terrorist organization to Moscow. We saw this behavior in Ukraine, and now we’re seeing it even more aggressively — with bombing runs and cruise missile strikes — in Syria.

Putin is not a sentimental man, and if Assad becomes a liability, Putin will gladly move on to a substitute acceptable to Moscow. But for now, the Russians believe that they (and the Iranians) can save Assad. President Obama and Secretary of State John F. Kerry say that there is no military solution to the Syrian crisis. That is true, but Moscow understands that diplomacy follows the facts on the ground, not the other way around. Russia and Iran are creating favorable facts. Once this military intervention has run its course, expect a peace proposal from Moscow that reflects its interests, including securing the Russian military base at Tartus.

We should not forget that Moscow’s definition of success is not the same as ours. The Russians have shown a willingness to accept and even encourage the creation of so-called failed states and frozen conflicts from Georgia to Moldova to Ukraine. Why should Syria be any different? If Moscow’s “people” can govern only a part of the state but make it impossible for anyone else to govern the rest of it — so be it.

And the well-being of the population is not the issue either. The Russian definition of success contains no element of concern for the dismal situation of the Syrian people. Refugees — that’s Europe’s problem. Greater sectarianism — well, it’s the Middle East! Populations attacked with barrel bombs and Assad’s chemicals, supposedly banned in the deal that Moscow itself negotiated — too bad!

Putin’s move into Syria is old-fashioned great-power politics. (Yes, people do that in the 21st century.) There is a domestic benefit to him, but he is not externalizing his problems at home. Russian domestic and international policies have always been inextricably linked. Russia feels strong at home when it is strong abroad — this is Putin’s plea to his propagandized population — and the Russian people buy it, at least for now. Russia is a great power and derives its self-worth from that. What else is there? When is the last time you bought a Russian product that wasn’t petroleum? Moscow matters again in international politics, and Russian armed forces are on the move.

Let us also realize that hectoring Putin about the bad choice he has made sounds weak. The last time the Russians regretted a foreign adventure was Afghanistan. But that didn’t happen until Ronald Reagan armed the Afghan mujahideen with Stinger missiles that started blowing Russian warplanes and helicopters out of the sky. Only then did an exhausted Soviet Union led by Mikhail Gorbachev, anxious to make accommodation with the West, decide that the Afghan adventure wasn’t worth it.

So what can we do?

First, we must reject the argument that Putin is simply reacting to world disorder. Putin, this argument would suggest, is just trying to hold together the Middle East state system in response to the chaos engendered by U.S. overreach in Iraq, Libya and beyond.

Putin is indeed reacting to circumstances in the Middle East. He sees a vacuum created by our hesitancy to fully engage in places such as Libya and to stay the course in Iraq. But Putin as the defender of international stability? Don’t go there.

Second, we have to create our own facts on the ground. No-fly zones and safe harbors for populations are not “half-baked” ideas. They worked before (protecting the Kurds for 12 years under Saddam Hussein’s reign of terror) and warrant serious consideration. We will continue to have refugees until people are safe. Moreover, providing robust support for Kurdish forces, Sunni tribes and what’s left of the Iraqi special forces is not “mumbo-jumbo.” It might just salvage our current, failing strategy. A serious commitment to these steps would also solidify our relationship with Turkey, which is reeling from the implications of Moscow’s intervention. In short, we must create a better military balance of power on the ground if we are to seek a political solution acceptable to us and to our allies.

Third, we must “de-conflict” our military activities with those of the Russians. This is distasteful, and we should never have gotten to a place where the Russians are warning us to stay out of their way. But we must do all that we can to prevent an incident between us. Presumably, even Putin shares this concern.

Finally, we need to see Putin for who he is. Stop saying that we want to better understand Russian motives. The Russians know their objective very well: Secure their interests in the Middle East by any means necessary. What’s not clear about that?

Monarchist wrote:

Just look at those inbred wahabi faces.  And these are the "moderates"...

they aren't any moderate sunni muslims in Syria .... the only moderates are the Syrian government as all people could practice their faith without fear of being killed .... America and Nato has a lot to answer for

US tard wrote:"How can Vladimir Putin, with a sinking economy and a second-rate military, continually dictate the course of geopolitical events? Whether it’s in Ukraine or Syria, the Russian president seems always to have the upper hand."

It is one thing to lie, it is altogether another thing, far worse and potentially dangerous, to believe in your own lies/propaganda, despite obvious reality checks.

Example couldn't be clearer.

Godric wrote:

Monarchist wrote:

Just look at those inbred wahabi faces.  And these are the "moderates"...

they aren't any moderate sunni muslims in Syria .... the only moderates are the Syrian government as all people could practice their faith without fear of being killed .... America and Nato has a lot to answer for

Let's see these Wahabi vermin protest when they're incinerated, dismembered corpses!!!

Regular wrote:

zg18 wrote:

Su-34 operations near Raqqa and Aleppo

Not a pin point accuracy, but still good hits.

3 out 4 hits failed. 250kg are not blockbusters but were used on rather big buildings with only one direct hit, certainly not the best thing. I have heared the KAB-1500Kr guided bombs are far better in accuracy.

This video was posted before, but now from closer perspective...

Werewolf wrote:

Regular wrote:

zg18 wrote:

Su-34 operations near Raqqa and Aleppo

Not a pin point accuracy, but still good hits.

3 out 4 hits failed. 250kg are not blockbusters but were used on rather big buildings with only one direct hit, certainly not the best thing. I have heared the KAB-1500Kr guided bombs are far better in accuracy.

We don't know which was their real intended targets to call it a "Failure".

IF you look at the videos of All Russian bombings ,they do not seem to be targeting buildings but
instead underground bunkers ,weapon storages ,radars ,communication antennas.. all those things that you will not find usually inside buildings.  I don't think the Russian airforce "Failed"
its objective. .they train a lot precision bombing in Russia.. So i think is a bit extreme call
a bombing a "Failure" if we don't know exactly what was Russia really targeting..

The cross hair in the camera is not from the plane ,but apparently from drones monitoring
the success of any bombing. It could be "fail" but it could be a direct hit too.. we don't really
know until we understand first what really Russia was aiming.. as far i have seen is weapons storages, radars ,communications and command centers but also positions of terrorist leaders
and western advisors exact locations.


In more news.. Obama top advisors recommend US to give up with Syria..
Hopefully the US elite will listen and do it to avoid a major war.

High-level security advisors to US President Barack Obama recommended that the US should withdraw its military forces from Syria and abandon plans of Assad’s resignation, DWN wrote.

http://sputniknews.com/us/20151009/1028289400/obama-advisors-recommend-us-withdrawal.html


and this is only getting better by the day..


Instead of helping Russia to crash Islamic militants in Syria, France is doing the opposite – helping al-Qaeda-linked terrorists, said Marine Le Pen, the leader of French National Front party.France Protects al-Qaeda Affiliates, Should Help Russia Instead

http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151009/1028280555/france-should-help-russia-instead-supports-al-qaeda.html


This is.. exactly what i was saying about Public opinion.. The more public opinion sides with Russia ,the more difficult will be for Americans to justify their war in Syria.. If American citizens
today.. really cared about avoiding world war 3.. they will be protesting in all US cities by now
in the millions demanding US to stop the illegal war in Syria .. Americans can organize and do thousands protest for GMO food.. but not for avoiding world war 3...

Werewolf wrote:

Regular wrote:

zg18 wrote:

Su-34 operations near Raqqa and Aleppo

Not a pin point accuracy, but still good hits.

3 out 4 hits failed. 250kg are not blockbusters but were used on rather big buildings with only one direct hit, certainly not the best thing. I have heared the KAB-1500Kr guided bombs are far better in accuracy.

Well math says - more weight - higher accuracy, seems tho that fairly cheap laser guided KAB250 shall enter service in next 2-3 years.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Godric wrote:

Monarchist wrote:

Just look at those inbred wahabi faces.  And these are the "moderates"...

they aren't any moderate sunni muslims in Syria .... the only moderates are the Syrian government as all people could practice their faith without fear of being killed .... America and Nato has a lot to answer for

Let's see these Wahabi vermin protest when they're incinerated, dismembered corpses!!!

I would love to see Saudi Arabia cratered and turned to f**king glass Wahabists are nothing but cavemen

Military Operation in Syria may return Russia as a World Power

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151009/1028284477/military-operation-syria-russia-world-power.html


would love to see China also join Russia in wiping out these wahabists vermin .... it would bring more stability into the world and end the notion that western interference and aggression can go unchecked ... this is the first step


for me Russia and Vladimir Putin has a lot of support around the world in finally standing up to Washington and it's lackeys by taking on these rats

Regular wrote:

zg18 wrote:

Su-34 operations near Raqqa and Aleppo

Not a pin point accuracy, but still good hits.

Su-34 throw KAB-500S satellite guided bombs. I think they only monitor through TV sight, where bomb fall and it depend on target coordinates. I hope they will someday show Su-34 night bombing through it EO sight to see the quality of its thermal imager. I wonder, why RuAF doesn't use laser or TV guided bombs.

Godric wrote:Military Operation in Syria may return Russia as a World Power

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151009/1028284477/military-operation-syria-russia-world-power.html


would love to see China also join Russia in wiping out these wahabists vermin .... it would bring more stability into the world and end the notion that western interference and aggression can go unchecked ... this is the first step


for me Russia and Vladimir Putin has a lot of support around the world in finally standing up to Washington and it's lackeys by taking on these rats

China will have to join the fight in Syria. If this operation fail, those Uigur terrorists, which US and Turkey train in Syria will go to China to made attacks there. They will have to join Russia to show the World, they are also military power.

Video of which is belived to be Russian Zala 421-16E drone.





More about drone itself: http://zala.aero/zala-421-16e-2/

Video of which is claimed to be UAV Forpost - IAI Searcher II.





More about UAV: http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/aircraft/uav/searcher2/Searcher2.html

zg18 wrote:

Su-34 operations near Raqqa and Aleppo

Nice footage. Those guys in cars at 0:35 can celebrate their second birthday.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

ShahryarHedayatiSHBA wrote:

Stealthflanker wrote:

ShahryarHedayatiSHBA wrote:
The news about crashed object has been confirmed by Islamic republic news agency...
http://www.irna.ir/fa/News/81789206/

we need the debris's photo.

and is there any more info on how many craters or mysterious explosions ?

No more info available yet.

ShahryarHedayatiSHBA,

Since you are from Iran, can you please dig out and post (a translation please) the news story about the time that at least an Iranian school kid got killed while playing with a "US" cruise missile that had crashed in southwest Iran.

While you are at it, I'll try to write a post on the topic of munition failures (e.g., of Tomakawks and Mark 82).

Where is it, ShahryarHedayatiSHBA?


Munition failures:

There has been a picture of an unexploded Russian FAB-500-M54 that is making the rounds. Well, ammunition failure happens, they must. However the Russian systems are very reliable; they rarely fail.

By comparison, according to MSM, the "American" Mark 82, 83, and 84 have demonstrated a rate of failure to explode of around 50%.

Now, for a guided weapon, there is an inherent probability of the weapon to miss. Apart from that, many weapons don't reach their targets due to failure or due to the countermeasures taken against them and the systems they rely on.

The figure of 15% provided earlier by KVS is only the Tomahawk's failure rate, probably an optimistic figure (from the missiles "point of view"). This means that 15% would have problems like their jet engines not starting. However, in Iraq, close to 0% of Tomahawks reached their targets. Of course, that was mainly due to them being jammed or shot down. Many of the jammed and zombified Tomahawks, would enter the Iranian airspace until they crashed. The sad story I mentioned is related to this latter fact.

AGM-129 was even more failure-prone; according to USAF itself, it had a failure rate of 50% (of course, optimistically).

hip hip Urraa!!  hip hip Urraa!!  
Another point for Russia..  

US Congresswoman: Russia Is Bombing Al-Qaeda Terrorists.
How Is That a Bad Thing?

Russian and French Air Forces Cross Paths in Al-Raqqa

Direct hit on 13th division HQ, they confirm multiple casualties. Some running in the end.




https://twitter.com/IvanSidorenko1/status/652554962854088705