Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #3

After Assad's retaking of Syria, what should be done with it's Sunni Arab population?

There is a Sunni middle and upper class that is overwhelmingly pro Assad (as are all minorities) but there is also 30-40% rural and urban poor population with pro-Jihadi sympathies that will be hard to dislodge, integrate etc.

Sunni Arab share of Syrian population should be maximally reduced. Who knows, maybe some Turkish Alevites would like to settle in Syria? Or maybe Arab Christians from Jordan (there are 100,000 of them)?

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

max steel wrote:http://mobile.reuters.com/article/iduskcn0sb0gq20151017?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5622803f04d30171ad000001&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook

Medvedev said not propping assad govt . WTF?

SOP we're not doing what we're doing, just pretending to help against ISIS. It's like we're not helping NovoRussia. No Russian Soldiers there.

Pretty much.

Russia has sent a ridiculous amounts of support to Assad in forms of equipment.  Russia is now assisting economically to Assad as well as I have already posted an article from sdelanounas of sending equipment to make a lot of flour through automation purposes.  This will make something basic like flour very cheap and will help average Syrian for food purposes.  As well, Russia has been bombing Syrian opposition (or supposedly).  So if that isn't helping Assad, I don't know what is.

It's just Medvedev playing pokerface, which means they will step up the game. Syrians need a whole lot of of rocket artillery, and that's is what is going to come by. They need to start a profound change of tactics as well. On that Russia needs Iran.

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

max steel wrote:http://mobile.reuters.com/article/iduskcn0sb0gq20151017?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5622803f04d30171ad000001&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook

Medvedev said not propping assad govt . WTF?

SOP we're not doing what we're doing, just pretending to help against ISIS. It's like we're not helping NovoRussia. No Russian Soldiers there.

Pretty much.

Russia has sent a ridiculous amounts of support to Assad in forms of equipment.  Russia is now assisting economically to Assad as well as I have already posted an article from sdelanounas of sending equipment to make a lot of flour through automation purposes.  This will make something basic like flour very cheap and will help average Syrian for food purposes.  As well, Russia has been bombing Syrian opposition (or supposedly).  So if that isn't helping Assad, I don't know what is.

It's just Medvedev playing pokerface, which means they will step up the game. Syrians need a whole lot of of rocket artillery, and that's is what is going to come by. They need to start a profound change of tactics as well. On that Russia needs Iran.

Didn't Russia recently sent TOS-1 to Syrian forces?

I only saw TOS-1 with Iraqi forces. SAA got some BM-30 (or possibly the Iranian copy).

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:After Assad's retaking of Syria, what should be done with it's Sunni Arab population?

There is a Sunni middle and upper class that is overwhelmingly pro Assad (as are all minorities) but there is also 30-40% rural and urban poor population with pro-Jihadi sympathies that will be hard to dislodge, integrate etc.

Sunni Arab share of Syrian population should be maximally reduced.

Impossible, those who have left Syria (overwhelmingly Sunnis) can be kept away in Jordan/Turkey etc, but the others cannot be "reduced" and if "Assad" really starts Ex-Yu style of "reduction", all the good job done would be simply brushed aside and Gumanitarian bombing from the Usual Suspects will start sooner or later

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:After Assad's retaking of Syria, what should be done with it's Sunni Arab population?

There is a Sunni middle and upper class that is overwhelmingly pro Assad (as are all minorities) but there is also 30-40% rural and urban poor population with pro-Jihadi sympathies that will be hard to dislodge, integrate etc.

Sunni Arab share of Syrian population should be maximally reduced.

Impossible, those who have left Syria (overwhelmingly Sunnis) can be kept away in Jordan/Turkey etc, but the others cannot be "reduced" and if "Assad" really starts Ex-Yu style of "reduction", all the good job done would be simply brushed aside and Gumanitarian bombing from the Usual Suspects will start sooner or later

The biggest advocates here on forum for religious freedom are the same that advertize for genocide like that nuthead.

Do you think assad is mad? On him is a lot of pressure from the west. Maibe he has change himself and is not like he was. In the past he had a lot of motivation now i see him a rather calm person. In my view to be mad make you not only bad but give you a purpose ,a target you can reach. For example i am not afraid of communists in russia because they (maibe) dont have right but because in their madness they dont see the exacly thruth. Also today i had a revelation :until you dont prove that a average person having money like rich people is bad for economy you dont prove communism is bad. Somehow i started not feeling so sorry for the average people. I dont know what happened. Maibe i become a tehnocrat or something. That happened early today at aprox 12 clock.
I like that i have a smart brain because help me reach targets.
Also i dont see here on site clear explanations about how bad is to be a rich people who just accumulate money. Some western guys told to me that a rich people make all money from their work and that they could do another jobs too but they keep to give others jobs too. Something like we are in the jungle and some are really smart and that is all is the way they are born. Or at least this is the impression that i have from all walkie takie on internet.
Ofcourse i dont like rich people that dont know other things but still want money from others. And i am agree you must pay those who work.

Bidoul wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

max steel wrote:http://mobile.reuters.com/article/iduskcn0sb0gq20151017?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5622803f04d30171ad000001&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook

Medvedev said not propping assad govt . WTF?

SOP we're not doing what we're doing, just pretending to help against ISIS. It's like we're not helping NovoRussia. No Russian Soldiers there.

Pretty much.

Russia has sent a ridiculous amounts of support to Assad in forms of equipment.  Russia is now assisting economically to Assad as well as I have already posted an article from sdelanounas of sending equipment to make a lot of flour through automation purposes.  This will make something basic like flour very cheap and will help average Syrian for food purposes.  As well, Russia has been bombing Syrian opposition (or supposedly).  So if that isn't helping Assad, I don't know what is.

It's just Medvedev playing pokerface, which means they will step up the game. Syrians need a whole lot of of rocket artillery, and that's is what is going to come by. They need to start a profound change of tactics as well. On that Russia needs Iran.

Didn't Russia recently sent TOS-1 to Syrian forces?

I only saw TOS-1 with Iraqi forces. SAA got some BM-30 (or possibly the Iranian copy).

Non, non ils ont bien reçu deux TOS-1A et un véhicule de rechargement. Des plaques de percussion de munitions NURS 220 ont même été postées sur Twitter. Et Aussi des BM-30.
TOS 1A and BM-30 confirmed.

OK - but there's no damage in inviting persecuted minority groups from ME countries to Syria. These groups are:
- Turkish Alevites (population 15 mln)
- Jordanian Christian (pop. 100,000)
- Palestinian Christians (pop. 50,000?)
- Christians from Iran

All of these are 100% in favor of a secualr state and would feel great in Syria.

I am not supporting genocide. Genocide is physical elimination of certain people. Kicking Sunnis out of Syria (which I'm not advocating for Assad) is not a genocide. It's ethnic cleansing.

[quote="Werewolf"][quote="KoTeMoRe"][quote="Walther von Oldenburg"]After Assad's retaking of Syria, what should be done with it's Sunni Arab population?

There is a Sunni middle and upper class that is overwhelmingly pro Assad (as are all minorities) but there is also 30-40% rural and urban poor population with pro-Jihadi sympathies that will be hard to dislodge, integrate etc.

Sunni Arab share of Syrian population should be maximally reduced.[/quote]

Impossible, those who have left Syria (overwhelmingly Sunnis) can be kept away in Jordan/Turkey etc, but the others cannot be "reduced" and if "Assad" really starts Ex-Yu style of "reduction", all the good job done would be simply brushed aside and Gumanitarian bombing from the Usual Suspects will start sooner or later[/quote]

The biggest advocates here on forum for religious freedom are the same that advertize for genocide like that nuthead.[/quote]
There are cases and cases. For example i like everyone have a opinion but i am not like christianity just because they say they have a word in all. And i dont like to give right to speech to those religious people that sustain oppresion from religion. After all we can speak free but not really everything. BUT...that doesnt mean for example i cant speak a little violent when i am really threaten. I have right to self defense. We are not in the "fairy tale society"

[quote="Walther von Oldenburg"]I am not supporting genocide. Genocide is physical elimination of certain people. Kicking Sunnis out of Syria (which I'm not advocating for Assad) is not a genocide. It's ethnic cleansing.[/quote]
Those who are really proven to make wrong things somehow must be punish

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:I am not supporting genocide. Genocide is physical elimination of certain people. Kicking Sunnis out of Syria (which I'm not advocating for Assad) is not a genocide. It's ethnic cleansing.

Genocide is not physical.

Genocide is if you even attempt in regardless what way to reduce the population that is Genocide.

Giving women vaccines with mercury like Israel does to Ethiopian jews who want to live in Israel, to sterilize them that is artificial birthcontrol and Genocide.

Genocide is not simpyl any attempt to physically remove them. Genocide takes place when this removal is done by physically eliminating, i.e. killling all or significant part of the population. Genocide is what we did to Jews and Gypsies (and planned to do to Slavs), what Turks did to Armenians (50% of Turkish Armenians killed within a year) and what Hutu's did to Tutsi's in Rwanda.

So if you have a population of 500,000 people, kill 1,000 of them to scare the rest and force them to flee - then it's not genocide but ethnic cleansing. If you kill 100,000 or 200,000 or more of them in an attempt to physically eliminate them - it'ss a genocide.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Genocide is not simpyl any attempt to physically remove them. Genocide takes place when this removal is done by physically eliminating, i.e. killling all or significant part of the population. Genocide is what we did to Jews and Gypsies (and planned to do to Slavs), what Turks did to Armenians (50% of Turkish Armenians killed within a year) and what Hutu's did to Tutsi's in Rwanda.

So if you have a population of 500,000 people, kill 1,000 of them to scare the rest and force them to flee - then it's not genocide but ethnic cleansing. If you kill 100,000 or 200,000 or more of them in an attempt to physically eliminate them - it'ss a genocide.

make your point WTF are you suggesting as "real actions" that "needed to be taken"

removing 10m people from somewere? kill a few thousand to do what?

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:OK - but there's no damage in inviting persecuted minority groups from ME countries to Syria. These groups are:
- Turkish Alevites (population 15 mln)
- Jordanian Christian (pop. 100,000)
- Palestinian Christians (pop. 50,000?)
- Christians from Iran

All of these are 100% in favor of a secualr state and would feel great in Syria.

Turkish Alevis will never go to Syria they have finally a good situation in Turkey. Turkish Authorities will never allow that. It's up to 30% of the Turkish GDP. All the rest is very little, plus Iranians don't want to kick out one of their most prized communities. Christians in Iran are really the pride of the IRI and they have allowed Christians to grow back from the Shah era. A good chunk are Armenians, so they would go back to Armenia instead of Syria.

I understand what you say, but it will be very difficult to lure those people back. Plus Sunni or Shia doesn't really matter, the issue stands with people outside Syria. All the excesses of Assad era didn't stopped Sunnis from partaking in the power apparatus and even helping pretty actively in crushing Muslim Brotherhood scum from 70's and 80's.

If just a few hundred thousand people from the aforementioned minorities go to Syria, it would be a success.

A Sunni is a Sunni is a Sunni. Every Sunni is a potential terrorist, no matter how moderate, educated or whatever he seems. Most Jihadis from Europe are from moderate, middle class families.  In Nasserist Egypt in '50s-'60s you had Sunni girls who wore miniskirts and high heels and listened to the Beattles while in 2011 their granddaughters wore burqas and shouted "death to Mubarak" on the Tahrir Square. Change can and does happen.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Genocide is not simpyl any attempt to physically remove them. Genocide takes place when this removal is done by physically eliminating, i.e. killling all or significant part of the population. Genocide is what we did to Jews and Gypsies (and planned to do to Slavs), what Turks did to Armenians (50% of Turkish Armenians killed within a year) and what Hutu's did to Tutsi's in Rwanda.

So if you have a population of 500,000 people, kill 1,000 of them to scare the rest and force them to flee - then it's not genocide but ethnic cleansing. If you kill 100,000 or 200,000 or more of them in an attempt to physically eliminate them - it'ss a genocide.

I rest my case a true nuthead advocating for genocide.


Definition

..any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (what you suggest, killing 1000 to terrorize the entire population = genocide)
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;(What Israel does to Palestinians)
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; What christian missionaries did and do same as Israelis do to Ethiopian Jews


(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

What you suggest is by definition beyond doubt or interpretation Genocide. Genocide is NOT an attempt or action to wipe out the entire group of people, part of the group (decimation) is already genocide.

Where did I advocate killing 1000 Sunnis? I simply gave an example. In another thread I said I would kick Sunnis out from Syria if they were to be replaced by Germans. But I do not advocate the same thing for Assad.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:If just a few hundred thousand people from the aforementioned minorities go to Syria, it would be a success.

A Sunni is a Sunni is a Sunni. Every Sunni is a potential terrorist, no matter how moderate, educated or whatever he seems. Most Jihadis from Europe are from moderate, middle class families.  In Nasserist Egypt in '50s-'60s you had Sunni girls who wore miniskirts and high heels and listened to the Beattles while in 2011 their granddaughters wore burqas and shouted "death to Mubarak" on the Tahrir Square. Change can and does happen.

Every christian, Jew, Moslem and every German therefore is a potential terrorist, genocider, wannabe ubermensch and that justifies to wipe you out aswell. You are not just a potential supremacy nuthead but an actual supremacy nuthead.

Shall i post what you have PM'ed to me to show everyone on this forum that you are indeed a supremacy nuthead that wants germans to become like jews, believe in supremacy, seeking for supremacy because germans deserve to be the best and all your other mumbling?

STFU subhuman.

Can we get back to Russian aid to Syria ?

Seriously that sectarian stuff doesn't really have place here.

OK

Situation in north Homs Province (rebel stronghold since 2011):

There'll probably be some sort of peace agreement at the end of all this with the Sunnis getting their share of power....but yes they will be a problem since they have by and large embraced wahabism. ISIS and other Jihadi militias are seen as their champions....they're not wildly popular even among emigrants in the West for nothing.

---

Interesting if true...

Israeli jets recently flying near Syria border for intelligence on Hezbollah forced to return after Russian jets intercept pathway -As Safir
https://twitter.com/IsraelBreaking/status/655457936681127937

auslander wrote:

Monarchist wrote:

1. Имеющимися силами спасти Асада невозможно. Можно лишь продлить агонию. Поскольку "партнеры" не дадут этого сделать. Но они сделают всё так, чтобы мы понесли максимальные экономические (а в идеале и людские) потери от своего вмешательства.
2. Достаточными силами в Сирии одержать победу, теоретически, возможно. Но олигархическое государство с гедонистической "элитой" не готово идти на серьезные усилия, жертвы и риски, которые для этого потребуются. И, тем более, проводить мобилизационные мероприятия. Поэтому полноценное вмешательство невозможно. Именно по данной причине, как я понимаю, произошел отказ от разрешения куда более важного для национальных и государственных интересов "украинского кризиса".
Поэтому не будет ни "Левиафанов", ни чего-либо "выгодного" (даже для "Газпрома") вообще. Будет тотальный бардак и маразм со сплошными издержками.

1. With the available forces it's impossible to save Assad. One can only prolong the agony. As "partners" will not do. But they do everything so that we have suffered the highest economic (and ideally human) losses caused by its intervention.
2. Sufficient forces in Syria to win, it is theoretically possible. But our oligarchic state with hedonistic "elite" is not ready to make serious efforts, sacrifices and risks that will be required. And, moreover, to carry out mobilization measures. Therefore, it is impossible to complete the intervention. It is for this reason, as I understand it, there was a rejection of the resolution is much more important for national and public interest "of the Ukrainian crisis."
Therefore, there will be no "Leviathan" or something "profitable" (even for "Gazprom") in general. It will be total chaos and insanity with complete cost.

New Strelkov comments on the situation.

Look, my friend Monarchist, let's get something straight. Unless you post a live vid of Polkovnik 'Strelkov' speaking those words it is, by 'Strelkov's' own very clear statements, not from him. Do you understand that principle? The good Polkovnik himself has stated often that anything read on the net is not from him unless he says it in an interview. I don't particularly care what you write and it is your right to say what you want when you want, but your right to speak your mind does not mean I have to listen to it. Couple more of these foolish and linkless pontifications and I'll be forced to send you for a while in to the corner where you can sit with flagship defeat, little dforce and hansel hauspfeffer.

He posts on the forum-antikvariat.ru. I only copy them and post it here. If that is against the rules the moderators or admin are free to delete them and ban me. No, of course you have a free opinion and you can ignore me.