Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #3

ultron wrote:

Militarov wrote:

ultron wrote:Russia should supply Arena active protection to SAA.

Export variant of Arena was said to cost around 300.000USD, second hand fully functioning T55 is not more than 10-20.000USD on market, Serbia for an example sold certain amount of T55s 130euros per TON which means what one was about 4.700euros/5300USD, they were not in great shape but nothing that cant be repaired.

I hope you are following me here on this one.

I hope you are not putting prices on people's lives. Active protection is the way forward, not putting more tankers as cannon fodder.

War and economy are brothers, someone has to pay for this proposed equipment, and i am almost positive Syria wont/cant.

How many times you heard that some military project or orders were dropped coz it was "too expencive"? Manyyy times.

Logistics are what wins or losses a battlefield or war. Steel wins battles but Gold wins wars.

max steel wrote:Russia "Confirms" It Has Plans To Restore Assad Government In Syria

This will piss the hell off Washington.

So what would you do? Saudis and Turks are so hell bent on destroying Assad (to prevent Iran from establishing the Shia Crescent) taht they are going to do everything just to not let rebels lose - not excluding military invasion if needed.

Supplying Houthis in Yemen would work but there is a blockade and well... Russia isn't rich enough to afford giving away tank brigades for free.

Militarov wrote:

ultron wrote:

Militarov wrote:

ultron wrote:Russia should supply Arena active protection to SAA.

Export variant of Arena was said to cost around 300.000USD, second hand fully functioning T55 is not more than 10-20.000USD on market, Serbia for an example sold certain amount of T55s 130euros per TON which means what one was about 4.700euros/5300USD, they were not in great shape but nothing that cant be repaired.

I hope you are following me here on this one.

I hope you are not putting prices on people's lives. Active protection is the way forward, not putting more tankers as cannon fodder.

War and economy are brothers, someone has to pay for this proposed equipment, and i am almost positive Syria wont/cant.

How many times you heard that some military project or orders were dropped coz it was "too expencive"? Manyyy times.

I don't see Russia's enemies complain when they send tens of thousands of TOWs to their friends. The least Russia can do is return the favor.

ultron wrote:

Militarov wrote:

ultron wrote:

Militarov wrote:

ultron wrote:Russia should supply Arena active protection to SAA.

Export variant of Arena was said to cost around 300.000USD, second hand fully functioning T55 is not more than 10-20.000USD on market, Serbia for an example sold certain amount of T55s 130euros per TON which means what one was about 4.700euros/5300USD, they were not in great shape but nothing that cant be repaired.

I hope you are following me here on this one.

I hope you are not putting prices on people's lives. Active protection is the way forward, not putting more tankers as cannon fodder.

War and economy are brothers, someone has to pay for this proposed equipment, and i am almost positive Syria wont/cant.

How many times you heard that some military project or orders were dropped coz it was "too expencive"? Manyyy times.

I don't see Russia's enemies complain when they send tens of thousands of TOWs to their friends. The least Russia can do is return the favor.

That is done by bombing the Formerly Seen Alive not chopping up old T55/62's to retrofit a 30million RUR system that would not effectively help the tanks fight better. Just stay alive longer. That's not a positive investment.

ultron wrote:

Militarov wrote:

ultron wrote:

Militarov wrote:

ultron wrote:Russia should supply Arena active protection to SAA.

Export variant of Arena was said to cost around 300.000USD, second hand fully functioning T55 is not more than 10-20.000USD on market, Serbia for an example sold certain amount of T55s 130euros per TON which means what one was about 4.700euros/5300USD, they were not in great shape but nothing that cant be repaired.

I hope you are following me here on this one.

I hope you are not putting prices on people's lives. Active protection is the way forward, not putting more tankers as cannon fodder.

War and economy are brothers, someone has to pay for this proposed equipment, and i am almost positive Syria wont/cant.

How many times you heard that some military project or orders were dropped coz it was "too expencive"? Manyyy times.

I don't see Russia's enemies complain when they send tens of thousands of TOWs to their friends. The least Russia can do is return the favor.

Giving away ATGMs is not same as giving away tanks and very expencive APS systems. Russians are giving Metis and Kornets to the Syrians too.

Via France24 RuAF airstrikes have killed ca. 400 rebels since the start of the operation - if this figure is true, then it's a rather modest figure for >20 sorties per day for 3 weeks in a row.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Via France24 RuAF airstrikes have killed ca. 400 rebels since the start of the operation - if this figure is true, then it's a rather modest figure for >20 sorties per day for 3 weeks in a row.

400? That's about the number of guys killed in 10 days of Hama push.

Plus from Formerly Seen Alive sources there are at least 4 bombings which killed 70+/ 40+/ 13+ and "dozens" in the last 4/5 days. So maybe you should check who F24 rolls for.

And this:

https://twitter.com/Syria_Protector/status/656440606613504000

That mix of camo and weapons is making me worry (notice Syrian fighter with 74M+Obzor) some one is wandering off base to schwack cockroaches.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Via France24 RuAF airstrikes have killed ca. 400 rebels since the start of the operation - if this figure is true, then it's a rather modest figure for >20 sorties per day for 3 weeks in a row.

I highly doubt those numbers since there is no one really capable of gathering a census like information of manpower. The other point is unlike USA with their non existing war on terror, Russia targeted many facilities, command posts and other tactical points of US terror cells. They are fighting like a military and ISIS is actually a military target, they barely stick to the guerilla tactics, they act openly as an army a very bad trained army. To thousands riding on Toyotas on open roads to Bagdhad has shown what easy target they are. ISIS is easily destroyed due their non existent asymmetrical warfare.

Militarov wrote:

ultron wrote:

Militarov wrote:

ultron wrote:

Militarov wrote:

ultron wrote:Russia should supply Arena active protection to SAA.

Export variant of Arena was said to cost around 300.000USD, second hand fully functioning T55 is not more than 10-20.000USD on market, Serbia for an example sold certain amount of T55s 130euros per TON which means what one was about 4.700euros/5300USD, they were not in great shape but nothing that cant be repaired.

I hope you are following me here on this one.

I hope you are not putting prices on people's lives. Active protection is the way forward, not putting more tankers as cannon fodder.

War and economy are brothers, someone has to pay for this proposed equipment, and i am almost positive Syria wont/cant.

How many times you heard that some military project or orders were dropped coz it was "too expencive"? Manyyy times.

I don't see Russia's enemies complain when they send tens of thousands of TOWs to their friends. The least Russia can do is return the favor.

Giving away ATGMs is not same as giving away tanks and very expencive APS systems. Russians are giving Metis and Kornets to the Syrians too.

It's not only to Russia to give there. Those terrorists endanger whole Central Asia and China together with India. If they are not willing to send their troops to defend themselves against terrorists, than they should send logistics and money.

Considering, that Syria ask Russia for military intervention, I wonder who actually pay for intervention. Syria itself could not, but maybe Iran and China pay costs. Few days ago, when Putin was in Kazakhstan, in the meeting of leaders of Central Asian republics, they confirm, that ISIS and other terrorists from Syria and Iraq and specially from Afghanistan endanger whole Central Asian space together with China and others and that they have to be prepared for the war there. I'm sure US will try to push terrorists from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Turkey, KSA, etc into Kazakhstan to provoke war in similar way as they are sending terrorists in Europe to provoke war. You could bet, that next year we will see the war in Central Asia and in Europe and Turkey is the key point. If they want to prevent catastrophy at home, they should send equipment, troops and money to Russian coalition to destroy terrorists in Iraq and Syria. Good news are, that Central Asian presidents are aware of the danger and are getting ready. On the other hand European leaders are not aware of anything. They are helping terrorists instead of liquidating them. They have big mistake, that they are not checking ID of every refugee, who he actually is and arrest every terrorist between them. Unfortunately this wave of refugees went into Europe more than a month before Russia went into intervention. They are to late to save Europe, but they could still save Asia. China and India have responsibility to support Russian military intervention against terrorism, because if Russia fail, terrorist will attack them too.

more biased news reporting from USIS media

Russian raids in Syria have killed 370: monitor

so when its a Russian raid civilian casualties is a Big issue but if its NATO well nobody cares

Werewolf wrote:

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Via France24 RuAF airstrikes have killed ca. 400 rebels since the start of the operation - if this figure is true, then it's a rather modest figure for >20 sorties per day for 3 weeks in a row.

I highly doubt those numbers since there is no one really capable of gathering a census like information of manpower. The other point is unlike USA with their non existing war on terror, Russia targeted many facilities, command posts and other tactical points of US terror cells. They are fighting like a military and ISIS is actually a military target, they barely stick to the guerilla tactics, they act openly as an army a very bad trained army. To thousands riding on Toyotas on open roads to Bagdhad has shown what easy target they are. ISIS is easily destroyed due their non existent asymmetrical warfare.

Err yes there are military targets available for Russia. And Russia is treating the infestation, only NOT ISIS. But Formerly Seen Alive moderate beheaders. The US dolts just got chewed and that shows in the slow but steady progress the SAA makes. There's also a very good job the RuAF is doing. They're treating plains first to provoke fluidity. See how they started with Hama and Al Ghab. Because attacking the mountains is more complicated. So that forced the Formerly Seen Alive Zombies to make choices. Either they dig in or they retreat into bigger urban environement. Once there the movements can be monitored differently. As long as the zombies leave the M5 Russia is happy.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Via France24 RuAF airstrikes have killed ca. 400 rebels since the start of the operation - if this figure is true, then it's a rather modest figure for >20 sorties per day for 3 weeks in a row.

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-air-strikes-kill-45-including-rebel-commander-071430049.html

I think you could easily put another 0 to the number. Just in today attack in Latakia they kill 45 terrorist with their commander. Few days ago they attack ISIS convoy and destroy more than 30 Toyotas with many terrorists, etc. They kill far more than just 400 terrorists.

medo wrote:

Militarov wrote:

ultron wrote:

Militarov wrote:

ultron wrote:

Militarov wrote:

ultron wrote:Russia should supply Arena active protection to SAA.

Export variant of Arena was said to cost around 300.000USD, second hand fully functioning T55 is not more than 10-20.000USD on market, Serbia for an example sold certain amount of T55s 130euros per TON which means what one was about 4.700euros/5300USD, they were not in great shape but nothing that cant be repaired.

I hope you are following me here on this one.

I hope you are not putting prices on people's lives. Active protection is the way forward, not putting more tankers as cannon fodder.

War and economy are brothers, someone has to pay for this proposed equipment, and i am almost positive Syria wont/cant.

How many times you heard that some military project or orders were dropped coz it was "too expencive"? Manyyy times.

I don't see Russia's enemies complain when they send tens of thousands of TOWs to their friends. The least Russia can do is return the favor.

Giving away ATGMs is not same as giving away tanks and very expencive APS systems. Russians are giving Metis and Kornets to the Syrians too.

It's not only to Russia to give there. Those terrorists endanger whole Central Asia and China together with India. If they are not willing to send their troops to defend themselves against terrorists, than they should send logistics and money.

Considering, that Syria ask Russia for military intervention, I wonder who actually pay for intervention. Syria itself could not, but maybe Iran and China pay costs. Few days ago, when Putin was in Kazakhstan, in the meeting of leaders of Central Asian republics, they confirm, that ISIS and other terrorists from Syria and Iraq and specially from Afghanistan endanger whole Central Asian space together with China and others and that they have to be prepared for the war there. I'm sure US will try to push terrorists from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Turkey, KSA, etc into Kazakhstan to provoke war in similar way as they are sending terrorists in Europe to provoke war. You could bet, that next year we will see the war in Central Asia and in Europe and Turkey is the key point. If they want to prevent catastrophy at home, they should send equipment, troops and money to Russian coalition to destroy terrorists in Iraq and Syria. Good news are, that Central Asian presidents are aware of the danger and are getting ready. On the other hand European leaders are not aware of anything. They are helping terrorists instead of liquidating them. They have big mistake, that they are not checking ID of every refugee, who he actually is and arrest every terrorist between them. Unfortunately this wave of refugees went into Europe  more than a month before Russia went into intervention. They are to late to save Europe, but they could still save Asia. China and India have responsibility to support Russian military intervention against terrorism, because if Russia fail, terrorist will attack them too.

Thing is that many countries in Asia, liked we that or not are under great influence of the US or some NATO member, doesnt even matter. They would bless them if they decided to join US campagin but they would also throw an Anatema of any try of them to aid Russia. But, again, we have seen some Chinese equipment in Syria (4x4 vehicles, vests, ammunition, mortars), its not out of the question that China decided to help in some way, at least in form of non combat vehicles and bulletproof vests or just sell the equipment ignoring certain arms bans that US tried to impose.

Iran might be paying for some of the equipment delivered by Russians, might again. India to me looks very...passive and lacks interest in this matter, even tho they should. Afganistan is up to neck in own issues, Turkey does not seem to care, Kazakhstan is allowing certain groups even to steal arms from their military bases...not on purpose i guess but still.

Actually most worrying part here is the passive stance of India and Turkish silent approval of FSA/ISIS.

The number may be close to 1000 but I won't believe in 4000 because that number would be inconsistent with SAA pace of advance and inconsistent with rxperiences of previous air campaigns.

Militarov wrote:

medo wrote:

Militarov wrote:

ultron wrote:

Militarov wrote:

ultron wrote:

Militarov wrote:

ultron wrote:Russia should supply Arena active protection to SAA.

Export variant of Arena was said to cost around 300.000USD, second hand fully functioning T55 is not more than 10-20.000USD on market, Serbia for an example sold certain amount of T55s 130euros per TON which means what one was about 4.700euros/5300USD, they were not in great shape but nothing that cant be repaired.

I hope you are following me here on this one.

I hope you are not putting prices on people's lives. Active protection is the way forward, not putting more tankers as cannon fodder.

War and economy are brothers, someone has to pay for this proposed equipment, and i am almost positive Syria wont/cant.

How many times you heard that some military project or orders were dropped coz it was "too expencive"? Manyyy times.

I don't see Russia's enemies complain when they send tens of thousands of TOWs to their friends. The least Russia can do is return the favor.

Giving away ATGMs is not same as giving away tanks and very expencive APS systems. Russians are giving Metis and Kornets to the Syrians too.

It's not only to Russia to give there. Those terrorists endanger whole Central Asia and China together with India. If they are not willing to send their troops to defend themselves against terrorists, than they should send logistics and money.

Considering, that Syria ask Russia for military intervention, I wonder who actually pay for intervention. Syria itself could not, but maybe Iran and China pay costs. Few days ago, when Putin was in Kazakhstan, in the meeting of leaders of Central Asian republics, they confirm, that ISIS and other terrorists from Syria and Iraq and specially from Afghanistan endanger whole Central Asian space together with China and others and that they have to be prepared for the war there. I'm sure US will try to push terrorists from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Turkey, KSA, etc into Kazakhstan to provoke war in similar way as they are sending terrorists in Europe to provoke war. You could bet, that next year we will see the war in Central Asia and in Europe and Turkey is the key point. If they want to prevent catastrophy at home, they should send equipment, troops and money to Russian coalition to destroy terrorists in Iraq and Syria. Good news are, that Central Asian presidents are aware of the danger and are getting ready. On the other hand European leaders are not aware of anything. They are helping terrorists instead of liquidating them. They have big mistake, that they are not checking ID of every refugee, who he actually is and arrest every terrorist between them. Unfortunately this wave of refugees went into Europe  more than a month before Russia went into intervention. They are to late to save Europe, but they could still save Asia. China and India have responsibility to support Russian military intervention against terrorism, because if Russia fail, terrorist will attack them too.

Thing is that many countries in Asia, liked we that or not are under great influence of the US or some NATO member, doesnt even matter. They would bless them if they decided to join US campagin but they would also throw an Anatema of any try of them to aid Russia. But, again, we have seen some Chinese equipment in Syria (4x4 vehicles, vests, ammunition, mortars), its not out of the question that China decided to help in some way, at least in form of non combat vehicles and bulletproof vests or just sell the equipment ignoring certain arms bans that US tried to impose.

Iran might be paying for some of the equipment delivered by Russians, might again. India to me looks very...passive and lacks interest in this matter, even tho they should. Afganistan is up to neck in own issues, Turkey does not seem to care, Kazakhstan is allowing certain groups even to steal arms from their military bases...not on purpose i guess but still.

Actually most worrying part here is the passive stance of India and Turkish silent approval of FSA/ISIS.

Passive?

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/09/turkey-syria-daily-exposes-transfer-weapons-supplies-to-isis.html

Try again. The Erdoshit government is an ISIS backer.

Passive?

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/09/turkey-syria-daily-exposes-transfer-weapons-supplies-to-isis.html

Try again. The Erdoshit government is an ISIS backer.

No i ment India is passive and Turkey is at "silent approval of FSA/ISIS.". While they do not support them openly (at least they claim so) they do close eyes on their oil smuggling, weapon cashes and similar stuff. For all we know they are even organising weapon deliveries via other NATO members to FSA, which....basically at the end comes as a help to ISIS.

India promotes only political solution to Syria's Fiasco.


Here's What India Thinks About Russian Air Strikes in Syria

Militarov wrote:

Passive?

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/09/turkey-syria-daily-exposes-transfer-weapons-supplies-to-isis.html

Try again. The Erdoshit government is an ISIS backer.

No i ment India is passive and Turkey is at "silent approval of FSA/ISIS.". While they do not support them openly (at least they claim so) they do close eyes on their oil smuggling, weapon cashes and similar stuff. For all we know they are even organising weapon deliveries via other NATO members to FSA, which....basically at the end comes as a help to ISIS.

Silent approval is passivity. I'm telling you that they have been part of this game. They just got fvcked up in Kobani when the Germans (lol) raised the issue within NATO allegedly showing that 4 ISIS "firebases" were in "direct vicinity" of Turkish military posts. That's diplomatic for the Turks are IS artillery.

The turks deserve some tough love, especially after Sukrops were found in possession of MKEK munitions and grenades as well as sighting devices from Turkey.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Passive?

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/09/turkey-syria-daily-exposes-transfer-weapons-supplies-to-isis.html

Try again. The Erdoshit government is an ISIS backer.

No i ment India is passive and Turkey is at "silent approval of FSA/ISIS.". While they do not support them openly (at least they claim so) they do close eyes on their oil smuggling, weapon cashes and similar stuff. For all we know they are even organising weapon deliveries via other NATO members to FSA, which....basically at the end comes as a help to ISIS.

Silent approval is passivity. I'm telling you that they have been part of this game. They just got fvcked up in Kobani when the Germans (lol) raised the issue within NATO allegedly showing that 4 ISIS "firebases" were in "direct vicinity" of Turkish military posts. That's diplomatic for the Turks are IS artillery.

The turks deserve some tough love, especially after Sukrops were found in possession of MKEK munitions and grenades as well as sighting devices from Turkey.

Well Turkish built M203 underbarrel grenade launchers dubbed T40 were spotted too. Not that i am defending Turks.

Ahrar is fighting Jund Al Aqsa in Idlib.

Reuters
http://news.yahoo.com/three-russians-killed-syria-pro-government-source-145159450.html

THREE RUSSIANS KILLED IN SYRIA - PRO-GOVERNMENT SOURCE

BEIRUT (Reuters) - At least three Russians fighting alongside Syrian government forces were killed and several more wounded when a shell hit their position in the coastal province of Latakia, a senior pro-government military source said on Tuesday.

If confirmed, the deaths which occurred on Monday night would be the first known incident of Russians killed in Syria since Moscow began air strikes in support of President Bashar al-Assad on September 30.

Syrian officials could not be reached for comment. Russia's defense ministry did not respond to requests for comment.

Rami Abdulrahman, head of the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, which monitors the conflict, told Reuters that his sources in the area had confirmed the deaths of Russians, but did not have a figure. He said he believed they were not regular Russian forces but volunteers.

The pro-government source, who is familiar with military events in Syria, said that at least 20 Russians were at the post in the Nabi Younis area when the shell struck.

"It's a 90 percent probability that the shell was fired by the militants," he told Reuters, referring to insurgent groups that the Syrian army, backed by Lebanon's Hezbollah and Iranian fighters, has been battling in the area.

The Kremlin has said there are no Russian troops in combat roles in Syria, though it has said there are trainers and advisors working alongside the Syrian military, and forces guarding Russia's bases in western Syria. The Kremlin has said it is not undertaking any steps to recruit and deploy volunteer fighters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/20/us-mideast-crisis-syria-russia-idUSKCN0SE1YO20151020

Militarov wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Passive?

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/09/turkey-syria-daily-exposes-transfer-weapons-supplies-to-isis.html

Try again. The Erdoshit government is an ISIS backer.

No i ment India is passive and Turkey is at "silent approval of FSA/ISIS.". While they do not support them openly (at least they claim so) they do close eyes on their oil smuggling, weapon cashes and similar stuff. For all we know they are even organising weapon deliveries via other NATO members to FSA, which....basically at the end comes as a help to ISIS.

Silent approval is passivity. I'm telling you that they have been part of this game. They just got fvcked up in Kobani when the Germans (lol) raised the issue within NATO allegedly showing that 4 ISIS "firebases" were in "direct vicinity" of Turkish military posts. That's diplomatic for the Turks are IS artillery.

The turks deserve some tough love, especially after Sukrops were found in possession of MKEK munitions and grenades as well as sighting devices from Turkey.

Well Turkish built M203 underbarrel grenade launchers dubbed T40 were spotted too. Not that i am defending Turks.

I'm not thinking that for a moment. Just that I have a personal aversion for the Turkish state.